That Wacky Redhead

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Brainbin, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. DTF955Baseballfan 12-time All-Star in some TL

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    And there's also blind people and those with some vision but with quite a bit of impairment, either in visual or other skills. Obviously such people lived independently before microwaves and somehow managed, but it's is so much easier for those of us with vision problems or the elderly to prevent burns, accidental fires, etc..

    Of coruse, you could probably create a hot plate that is self-contained - perhaps a sliding panel automatically slides out to reveal the hot plate with the door is closed & it's turned on, it heats up the meal, then turns off and recedes automatically when it's done, and the pnael resides back over the hot plate, allowing it to cool. Might be a bit bulkier but I can see a visually impaired or elderly person using one quite easily.

    An earlier George Foreman grill would be nice, too. I can see an aging slugger like Willie Stargell being the pitchman.

    (Oh, great, now Brainbin's going to have to cover inventions, too.:D)
     
  2. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Not in the least. As e of pi points out, I'm merely following the schedule laid out in the "More to Come" post, as is usually the case.

    I would like to echo this query. This is only a "rough draft", after all, and there's always room for improvement.

    What a charming story! I'm pretty sure I can save that - hippiedom, if anything, is even stronger in the 1970s ITTL - though as to the venue where he tells it...

    Well! You are most welcome, PitViper, and welcome aboard! Thank you for your lovely compliments, and for bestowing your first-ever post upon this humble thread!

    So you were born after 1977, then! Well, it's very possible that your TTL alter-ego might be named for Kurt Russell - who, fortunately, has two first names. (Much as Harrison Ford has two last names.) "Kurt" seems rather brusque, but I would say "Russell" might be a fairly equitable substitution! What do you think? :D

    Bringing unfiltered, unrevised, unedited George Lucas writing to the comics page... I just hope they're prepared for The Phantom Menace redux, that's all I can say :eek:

    And I can't wait to bring it to you!

    All right, apparently there has been a widespread misunderstanding with regards to the fate of microwave ovens ITTL. I admit that I may have contributed to this in my (jocular) response to vultan's observation (which I had - perhaps mistakenly - taken in jest). Although, yes, the tinfoil-hat crazies will reject microwave ovens on account of The Greenpoint Dilemma and the associated hysteria, by and large, microwave ovens will continue to see widespread use by consumers. As you note, Thande, they are far too convenient to eschew in this era (not to mention that contemporary toaster ovens are major fire hazards). Also, the major appliance manufacturers of the day will do everything they can to distance themselves from "microwave power", and emphasize how safe and reliable it is in commercials (so long as you don't put metal or anything living in there). Granted, it might be pretty awkward, especially for companies like General Electric (who would have been intimately involved with the push for microwave power), but these companies have the best marketing teams in the world at their disposal. If anyone can find a way out of this potential mess, they can.

    An excellent point! Although our friend PitViper provides a variation of this in that he was named for the actor who played the character, rather than the character himself. We've certainly seen plenty of examples of that IOTL: "Shirley" (after Shirley Temple) is the most dramatic example thereof. That name's arc of popularity peaked in the 1930s (at the height of her career), gradually rising from the late 19th century before reaching #4 in the 1930s, and steadily declining ever since (to the point that, today, it struggles to remain in the top 1,000 names for girls). "Harrison" has followed the opposite trajectory: relatively popular as a boy's name in the late 19th century, it kept declining all through the 20th, before bottoming out in (you guessed it) the 1970s, and it has been on the rise ever since (the big jump, oddly, was not in the 1980s but the 1990s).

    That said, your point is certainly an intriguing one as well. "Hermione" immediately jumps to mind, of course, but it still apparently has yet to reach the top 1,000 names for girls. "Leia" has, though far more recently than you might expect (it hit #956 in 2006 and has been climbing ever since). In a way, it does make sense; the classical audience for the original Star Wars trilogy were children, after all, many of whom are now old enough to settle down and have kids of their own. Perhaps in twenty years, "Hermione" might make the top 1,000 after all. As far as Star Trek and changes ITTL are concerned, I've given Sulu a name different from OTL (Walter, an "American" name, as opposed to the "foreign" Hikaru), and over 20 years before it was confirmed IOTL, and at which time Star Trek is a hit show. "Walter" has been steadily declining for decades since peaking at #11 in the early 20th century, though it appears to have finally leveled off somewhere in the upper 300s. ITTL, Sulu's first name would have been revealed sometime in 1969, which would affect the popularity of the name into the 1970s (IOTL, it was #82 in the 1960s, and #105 in the 1970s). My thinking is, perhaps ITTL it could be nudged into the top 100, especially amongst Asian-Americans who want to give their sons a "Western" name. Likewise, Uhura's name (revealed as "Penda" in 1969) could catch on with African-Americans, particularly Black Muslims (as "Penda" is Swahili), perhaps even enough to reach the top 1,000 in the 1970s (the decade of Blaxploitation, after all).

    For those of you who are curious, my source for the prevalence of baby names is the Baby Name Voyager, a valuable (and fun!) resource.

    It will certainly have indisputable value as a living piece of alternate history :D

    In all seriousness, I probably should cover "innovators" like K-tel and the Popeil Bros. in some capacity...
     
  3. Orville_third Banned

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    My name originally came from a novel- though the novel may have been written long before my great-great-grandfather. A former coworker was named for a SF film character (who won't be butterflied away thanks to the events of TTL) who shared his last name (His last name was Bowman, BTW). However, a former girlfriend of his who was also named for a TV SF character won't have said name (Romana, named for the Doctor Who companions).

    As a side note, the world of science and the atheism debate may change as a result of TTL. A guy by the name of Douglas Adams got work on Doctor Who in 1978, and was Script Editor in 1979. TBMK, this may have been butterflied away- though the Hitchhiker's Guide may have still been written and performed as OTL. In addition, Adams introduced his friend, Richard Dawkins to actress Lalla Ward, who he met on the set. (Though I just now realized that I mentioned this in a post waaaaaaay back...)
     
  4. Thande Gold! Always believe in your so-oul!

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    That makes sense to my mind; you wouldn't really expect adults to go to Star Wars or Indiana Jones and come out saying "I liked that film so much, I'm going to name my soon-to-be-born kid after one of its characters/actors!" But you might well expect starry-eyed kids to go in there, be deeply affected by the experience, and choosing to commemorate it a decade or two later when they have kids.
     
  5. Mr Teufel Active Member

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    As part of the marketing spin, they might get called something else; perhaps "radio ovens"? People would "pop their food in the radio," rather amusingly from OTT pov. :)

    Have you butterflied away the Omen movies? If so, my mother would be pleased. I was called 'Damian' after a saint, but kids of the following few years got labelled that after the antagonist of the Omen etc. This annoyed my mother quite a bit! :p
     
  6. Flubber Banned

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    Tell that to all the children named after the natives in Avatar.
     
  7. Glen ASB & Left Hand of IAN Moderator

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    Overall a very good addition to the opus, Brainbin.
     
  8. vultan Defying Gravity

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    Or, heck, the popularity of "Arya" as a girl's name spiked after Game of Thrones premiered.
     
  9. Jinx999 Well-Known Member

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    Remember that Brainbin has also had large chunks of what would grow to become the US Religious Right in OTL link itself to the American First segregation party. Which is the political equivalent to chaining oneself to the Titanic - they're going to politically marginalised for a generation, at least. The whole tenor of the Religion vs Science "debate" is going to be changed already.
     
  10. Orville_third Banned

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    True- though A. There will be areas that will be affected. B. This could mean fewer works by Dawkins later- or the concept of memes might not get as well known.
     
  11. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    You did, and I feel I should explain why I didn't respond to it then: in that era (and, indeed, for the entirety of the span of my timeline), he was known primarily as a biologist, and not for the aggressive advocacy of his metaphysical perspectives. (This would not happen until long after my 1986 cutoff, in fact.) Biologists are not typically noticed by popular culture unless they are named "Charles Darwin". In addition, the other half of that couple was not cast on Doctor Who ITTL, and therefore you are essentially discussing two nonentities (like Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett, neither of whom has a star vehicle ITTL). It would simply be an inorganic digression to mention them.

    What's interesting there is the chasm between the rise of "Harrison" and the rise of "Leia". But I think I can elucidate that: "Harrison", of course, was an established name at the time. So it caught on right after the incubation period of ten years or so that it took the young women who swooned over him in Star Wars and Empire and Raiders to settle down and have sons of their own. But "Leia", on the other hand, was a name wholly original to Star Wars, so it didn't catch on until the cohort that was young enough to never know anything other than the post-Star Wars culture had aged sufficiently to settle down and have daughters of their own. Funnily enough, "Luke" functions as something of a hybrid; it has grown in popularity since the 1970s, but also spiked in the mid-2000s - but then, "Luke" and "Leia" are a ready-made pair of names for opposite-gender twins.

    I actually really like this idea, but I don't think it's right for TWR - "microwave" is far too established as a name for that device. (It could definitely work in a timeline where the radio is still known as the "wireless", though.) But along those lines, use of the word "nuke" as a verb to describe microwave cooking could fall out of favour as a result of the anti-microwave backlash (even though, in fact, microwave power and nuclear power are nothing alike - another classic example of popular misconception).

    With Rosemary's Baby and then The Exorcist (which, ITTL, won Best Picture) being so successful, a film like The Omen is basically inevitable.

    Perhaps that's more a case of a small handful of examples having a disproportionate impact - from what I could tell, none of them cracked the top 1,000.

    Thank you, Glen! :)

    Now "Arya", on the other hand, hit #711 in 2011 and #413 in 2012! :eek: Those Game of Thrones fans have remarkable fecundity, is all I can say. (I guess it's not all that surprising, considering just which show they're taking inspiration from... :p) In all seriousness, I don't think I've seen a spike that impressive since "Nevaeh".

    Indeed it is, though that would be difficult to "cover", per se, in the same way as other topics; it's far more an atmospheric, background effect than something tangible.
     
  12. Daibhid C Well-Known Member

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    I'm really enjoying this timeline; I'm another one who came here from TVTropes.

    For your demographics: I was born in 1976, so we're just coming up to the TV I remember. I think 4 y.o. TTL Daibhid would really have liked Sesame Square. (Suggestion: maybe Louise Gold gets her puppeteering break on this, since Fran Brill has her OTL role on The Muppet Show?)

    Looking forward to the next entry!
     
  13. NCW8 Just Chilling

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    The opposite side of the rise in popularity of Shirley as a girls name is that it obscured the fact that it was previously a boys name. For example the wrestler Big Daddy (Shirley Crabtree Jr), born 1930.

    Cheers,
    Nigel.
     
  14. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    You’ve Come A Long Way, Baby

    Ever since the Sexual Revolution of the late 1960s, which sparked (among many other things) the Women’s Liberation Movement, the place for women in society, and in popular culture, had been in constant flux, their depiction in the media experiencing seismic shifts in an attempt to keep with the times, despite widespread uncertainty of what “womanhood” looked like in a very chaotic era. This began as early as the mid-1960s, with the prototypical “single young working woman” show, That Girl, bearing the torch for newly-liberated women everywhere. In a keen example of ideology making for strange bedfellows, it did so alongside even the more fantastic action-adventure programming popular at the time, as shows like Star Trek, Mission: Impossible, and The Avengers all featured female characters who were competent, work-oriented professionals, defined by their place within their organizational hierarchy, as opposed to their relationship to a husband or father – and who were not afraid to be “sexy” in the performance of their duties, a far cry from the demure (some would say “puritanical”) demeanour of those teachers, nurses, and secretaries featured in most shows from the 1950s and early 1960s. However, these groundbreaking shows stood in stark contrast to certain others, such as Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie – in which magical women with exceptional powers were entirely subservient to completely normal (and rather domineering) men. This was demonstrative of the rapidity with which these changes were taking place, and the uncertainty on all sides of their overall tenacity. That the era was one of great confusion about woman’s place in society was perhaps best (and most succinctly) illustrated by the Helen Reddy dichotomy: that popular singer had performed the feminist anthem “I Am Woman” in 1972, with the single reaching #1 on the pop charts at the end of the year. However, she also reached #1 in 1974 with “You and Me Against the World”, a song about a mother’s devotion to her child. [1] They were the two biggest hits of her career.

    It wasn’t until The Mary Tyler Moore Show in 1970 that what became the iconic “working woman” of the new decade finally seemed to “stick” in popular culture; it was perhaps no coincidence that, by this time, Jeannie was off the air and Bewitched was reduced to recycling scripts from earlier seasons. Ironically, though, the seemingly definitive status quo that had emerged on the small screen was not as true-to-life of the society which Mary Tyler Moore was attempting to represent. At the conclusion of the overseas quagmire in early 1969, and as young men returned home to settle down with their loved ones (timed perfectly with the maturing of the oldest of the Baby Boomers), the birth rate (in decline for the last several years) began to rise again. The Manufacturing Miracle and the overall prosperous economy seemed to indicate a return to “The Best Years of Our Lives”, as had been the case for the previous generation. That said, this time around there was not nearly so strong a stigma for women seeking employment as there had been in 1945. In fact, a not-insignificant number of women sought work in the factories, warehouses, and loading docks of America, though most women on television usually sought more white-collar, service-industry jobs instead. [2] Mary Richards worked as an associate producer at a television station; Gloria Higgins on Those Were the Days was a clerk at a department store. Gloria, however, did represent the lot of many young, married working women at the time, supporting their husbands or boyfriends through school (often on the G.I. Bill) rather than bettering themselves strictly for their own sakes. Such employment was therefore utilitarian and pragmatic.

    Television, like most media, did not tend to dramatize the mundane unless doing so was the whole point – and in the muted atmosphere of the 1970s, it had surely become so. The contrast between That Girl (one of the sunniest-ever depictions of “glamorous” New York City, which by that time faced rampant crime and net emigration) and Mary Tyler Moore (a cautiously optimistic show set in a typical Midwestern city) was obvious. Mary Richards was sweet, friendly, and completely non-threatening, but she was also unmarried and childless, and this did not change at any point throughout the show’s run. In fact, the (all-male) production team stubbornly refused to even consider such an option, though they relented to mounting criticism against the “anti-family” Paramount Television – which, prior to the mid-1970s, starred only singletons, divorcés, or childless couples in all their shows, save for the anomalous Room 222 – in preventing the planned divorce between Lou Grant and his wife, Edie. In fact, Edie Grant even carried over onto the spinoff, Lou Grant, though since it (like Mary Tyler Moore) was a work-oriented sitcom, she seldom appeared in the flesh, and was infrequently mentioned. [3]

    Inevitably, the strong reaction against Paramount forced a skew in the depiction of women on their shows vis-à-vis the changing reality on the ground. By 1977, when Mary Tyler Moore had concluded, more and more women were seeking employment, as the birth rate once again declined, and the economy began fluctuating, making stay-at-home motherhood a less attractive proposition; the average age at first marriage was also on the rise. But Paramount, suitably chastised, had decided to tread carefully from then on; in its final season, the formerly childless couple in Barefoot in the Park had a son, and Rhoda almost immediately became pregnant upon getting married in her eponymous sitcom spinoff (which naturally earned it a reputation as the anti-Mary Tyler Moore), giving birth to a daughter. This spawned a famous in-joke amongst the higher-ups at Paramount, as the son had been named Grant and the daughter Mary, after the married couple who formed the backbones of the studio; surely, those two babies would someday be destined to wed and have children of their own. In fact, executives delighted in suggesting hypothetical names from one of any number of the more odious “family values” critics who had denounced their programming. Those Were the Days, one of the hyper-realistic Tandem shows, avoided the bouncing between extremes of their rival studio: Gloria Bunker had married Richard Higgins soon after high school, getting a job to put him through school as her father (reluctantly) put a roof over their heads. They had one child together before both halves of the couple decided to focus more on their careers, eventually resulting in their departure from New York City for sunnier pastures elsewhere.

    But the decline in marriages and birth rates as the decade wore on resulted in shows like Police Woman (noted to be a personal favourite of the Speaker of the House, Gerald Ford, who quite famously once put an early end to proceedings in order to get home in time to watch a new episode of the show [4]), and spiritual sister The Alley Cats – which was both more absurd and more escapist than Police Woman, reflecting a move away from the grounded, realistic shows that dominated in the decade’s earlier years. Notably, both shows depicted the women protagonists as subservient to men, but not in any way denigrated by their superiors on account of their gender. In fact, the “feminine wiles” of the characters on Alley Cats were essential to their success, as had been the case on the earlier Mission: Impossible. However, grittier, less glamorous fare endured; Penny Marshall followed up Those Were the Days with an equally envelope-pushing sitcom, Inside Straight. Created with her producing partner Linda Bloodworth, it cast Marshall as a thirty-something divorcée, whose husband, fed up with her gambling addiction, had walked away. With few other options and armed with only her associate degree in interior design, she chose to start her own business – sublimating the thrill of the risk from gambling into entrepreneurship, especially in the trying economic times that marked the era. [5] The depiction of Marshall’s character as a divorcée was an explicit callback to the original plan for Mary Richards to have been depicted as one, before CBS executives insisted that audiences would assume that the character had divorced from Rob Petrie (on The Dick Van Dyke Show). Here, the equally potent assumption that Gloria Higgins had finally ditched the Meathead was left unchallenged – either viewers were more sophisticated, or (more likely) this show’s producers were more stubborn. Over the course of Inside Straight’s run, both Richard Dreyfuss and “Daddy”, Carroll O’Connor himself, would appear in guest roles. [6] Even more demonstrative of the enduring “grittiness” was The Birds of Baltimore, the American adaptation of the British Liver Birds program, which starred two single women dockworkers living and working together in Baltimore, considered the most apt analogue to Liverpool. The title referenced not only the original version (as “bird” was UK slang for a young woman), but also the Baltimore Orioles baseball team.

    Sex appeal could not be underestimated as an indicator of the liberated woman. This was the era of “bra-burning” (which actually never happened in a literal sense, though the symbolism of such an event was encouraged for metaphorical purposes). Pride in one’s own, natural self was a recurring theme of the civil rights struggles from the late 1960s onward – “Black is beautiful”, “Gay is good” – and this naturally extended to womanhood as well. Miniskirts were in, as Star Trek so famously demonstrated (in fact, early episodes had women wearing uniform pants, just like the men, but these were later discarded). But even more important was what were out: brassieres. This helped to cement the “bra-burning” legend (women didn’t wear bras because they had burned them, or so the logic went), and it certainly contributed to how fashions of the era were remembered. If anything, it seemed a foundational principle of how women were dressed in television and film at the time: from the very outset, costumers took great pains to ensure that titillation and liberation went hand-in-hand. In fact, this ideal was codified, so to speak, in the “Theiss Titillation Theory”, named for Trek costumer William Ware Theiss: “the degree to which a costume is considered sexy is directly proportional to how accident-prone it appears to be”. [7] It certainly explained the fundamental appeal of The Alley Cats, not to mention Three’s Company. Those boomers – male and female – who had not yet married tended to be wealthier (and less in need of financial support from a spouse) and more educated (putting off marriage and children until able to support themselves financially – in other words, the demographically ideal viewer. [8] Even the oldest Boomers had not yet reached the age of 30 by the mid-1970s. And they were legion – the largest cohort in history. Appealing to the crème de la crème of such a massive crop was irresistible to programmers, and this informed their choices of which shows to put – and keep – on the air.

    Marcia Lucas – who, along with her husband, George, was in the process of suing Paramount Pictures on behalf of Lucasfilm for that company’s rightful share of the profits from The Journey of the Force – found herself the primary breadwinner of her family when the pair were blackballed from Hollywood. Her employer, Lucille Ball, had enough pull that Marcia’s position as staff editor for the studio’s venerable post-production house was secured – though Desilu was given an ultimatum by the collective major studio chiefs: Marcia would not be allowed to edit any movies on threat of Desilu Post-Production being dealt an industry-wide boycott. So she was left to work solely on the in-house productions for the studio, primarily Three’s Company. The characters on that show – a slapstick farce very much in the vein of I Love Lucy but, once again, with added sexuality, befitting the era – were definite types: Janice, played by Susan Anton, was sexy but aloof and totally oblivious to her effect on men; Chrissy, played by Pam Dawber, was goofier and earthier, basically a toned-down “Lucy” type; Mrs. Roper, played by Betty Garrett, was assertive and man-hungry, trading barbs with her cold-fish husband. The central character was Robby Tripper, played by John Ritter, but the woman characters were each given their own plots and scenes without Robby (or their ornery landlord, Mr. Roper), and often discussed topics other than them, such as their jobs, or their desire to make the rent. Lucille Ball loved Three’s Company, easily her favourite of the shows that Desilu produced; and in her way, appointing Marcia to supervise the editing of that show was a distinct honour. Nonetheless, in absolute terms, it could not be perceived as anything but a career setback for a two-time Academy Award winning film editor. But in her own way, Marcia provided another interpretation of the working woman of the 1970s: her husband, George, had also been rendered unemployable by the lawsuit, and unlike Marcia, he did not have steady work to fall back on, forcing her to become the primary breadwinner for the family. Being the higher income-earner within the couple was something else that Marcia and her employer had in common, as the decade came to a tumultuous close. In more ways than one, Marcia Lucas would prove a new model for the new woman of the new decade…

    ---

    [1] “You and Me Against the World” only reached #9 IOTL, failing to become one of her three chart-toppers. ITTL, there are a lot more children and mothers who would appreciate this song at the time of its release, contributing to its success. Now, many people would claim that “I Am Woman” and “You and Me Against the World” are not necessarily songs with mutually exclusive themes, which is certainly true; certainly, Reddy herself obviously never thought that way. However, wags can’t help but note the irony of a singer hitting #1 with the defining anthem of Women’s Lib (which is to say, liberation from being identified, valued, and judged solely as a wife and/or mother) and then that same singer reaching that same plateau with one of the great maternal love songs, not two years later.

    [2] Many working women on early-1970s television, IOTL and ITTL, were in “pink-collar” jobs. However, ITTL, that term does not exist, for the simple reason that the proportion of women working blue-collar jobs is considerably larger. IOTL, one of the first hit shows to depict women working blue-collar was, ironically, the 1950s throwback Laverne & Shirley, in which the eponymous duo worked as bottle cappers at a Milwaukee brewery. However, that series does not exist ITTL.

    [3] Edie Grant appeared less often, and had less impact on the plot, than Liz Miller did in the later seasons of Barney Miller IOTL.

    [4] Based on an OTL story about (President) Ford re-scheduling a press conference so as not to miss an episode of Police Woman.

    [5] Bloodworth (as Linda Bloodworth-Thomason) co-created a series with the premise of women running an interior design firm IOTL as well: Designing Women.

    [6] Many of
    O’Connor’s preferred Those Were the Days writers also got gigs working on Inside Straight, in a contrast to the OTL situation behind the Archie Bunker’s Place spinoff Gloria, wherein his people were forced out of the production by the network, resulting in his (rather obstinate) decision to have no further involvement with that series.

    [7] The Theiss Titillation Theory, a cornerstone of the costume design principles behind Star Trek, was widely disseminated while the show was in first-run.

    [8] The definition of the “ideal” consumer has remained remarkably static over time. Generally, the younger you are, the less likely you’re set in your ways, which means you’re more willing to try new products or services; the more affluent you are, the greater your disposable income. Indicators of either age (younger people tend to live in more urban markets) or wealth (level of education correlates highly with annual income) tend to strongly influence the nature of the products or services being advertised.

    ---

    Thanks to e of pi for his assistance in the editing of this update, and for his terrific pun of a title suggestion as the title of Marshall’s star vehicle sitcom!

    I thought I would post this retrospective on the depiction of women in popular culture in the 1970s, as we enter this new decade. Along with the additions, I suggest that you take note of a deliberate omission: Maude, which was cancelled several seasons early ITTL, and has no second life in syndication. In all, there
    s less of a cultural backlash against Women’s Lib ITTL, because the steps it takes are more tentative, less united front than IOTL. However, the degree to which progress has been made can’t really be compared qualitatively to OTL, because (of course) such a metric is highly subjective, and wholly dependent on individual goals and values.

    Thank you all for your patience and understanding in waiting for this latest update! Coming up next time
    THE TRIAL OF THE CENTURY!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  15. Andrew T Kick 'em when they're up!

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    I imagine that this sitcom would be beloved in Baltimore in the late '70s/early 80s (assuming it goes into syndication), but I wonder about one knock-on effect: beginning in 1979, Baltimore mayor William Donald Schaefer will authorize construction of what would become Harborplace, beginning the transformation of downtown Baltimore's waterfront from a working port to a tourist destination. Major capital expenditures would soon follow: the National Aquarium, Science Center, Civic Center, and so on.

    If then-downtown Baltimore's docks are glamorized (albeit in a double-edged, gritty sort of way), you could see a lot more backlash against the proposed renovations, in much the same way that native New Yorkers decry the "new," safer, family-friendly Times Square in NYC.

    I was going to make this point until I got to the footnotes and saw that it already occurred to you. :)

    But as you know, I've got music on my mind lately. So it seems that you've only passingly touched on the music scene in the decade since the POD, despite massive cultural differences (an earlier end to you-know-what, Moonshot Lunacy, "Let's Have One More," etc.) that would certainly have spillover effects on popular music.

    We're entering the late-1970s, and OTL saw the rise of at least four major subgenres whose influences are still with us today: disco, punk, southern rock, and guitar-heavy hard rock. Way back in "Shifting Gears" (post #2230), you told us that there would be no Saturday Night Fever ITTL, and thus disco remains "black" music throughout the '70s with the exception of the occasional crossover hit. Any thought about how the rest of the music scene is shaping up during TTL's Reagan '70s?

    Anyway, great stuff as always, Brainbin!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  16. DTF955Baseballfan 12-time All-Star in some TL

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    Interesting thought, but then you would have a backlash against the backlash, in the form of a mini-baby boom meaning more push for family-friendly things, so it might even out.

    As for the Science vs. Reigion stuff, churches that are notably against the America First Party, especially in the North, might take stronger stances earlierto try to come to an understanding. In my current church this happened more in the 1950s, but it might apply to a few big churches in this TLs scope: There was a time in the '50s when they officially "didn't believe in dinosaurs" till they were proven to be true. In this TL, you might get bigger cries far earlier that dinosaurs are indeed int eh Bible. (Behemoth, Job 40:15 onward, and Leviathan, Job 41; note that modern renderings call the beast something they were familiar with.) Perhaps the new King James Version, out in 1982 if memory serves, will translate "behemoth" as "Brachiasaurus." (Although it should just stay "Behemoth," I think, as I see it as an old Hebrew name for the beast, but if they have to change the word it would be an interesting way for them to prove themselves interested in staying away from the segregationists.)

    Reggie White may not yet be an ordained minister by the time you end your TL, but if you want to show a knock-on effect, he could still speak at a large church in Canton, Ohio, in early 1986, as a football great, since the hall of Fame is there.;) Though we've always been very inclusive, it would be one more way our church show itself as distancing itself from the bigots. But, it might not come till the early '90s when I know he was ordained by then.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  17. Andrew T Kick 'em when they're up!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Location:
    Maryland
    Okay, I apologize for the slight derailment, but just I've got to set this straight.

    There is absolutely no way that anyone who isn't a complete fraud could translate the word "behemoth" in Job 40:15 that way. Or, put another way: only if Ken Ham gets to write his own translation of the Bible ITTL.

    Take a look at a bunch of translations for Job 40:17, which contains the "moves his tail as a cedar" line that creationists think means behemoth refers to a sauropod dinosaur. Note what that verse doesn't say: "behemoth has a tail as big as a tree." (You might also remember that cedars don't really move, either.)

    Look closely at what the verse does say, over and over again, particularly in the most close word-for-word translations: behemoth "stiffens his tail like a cedar tree," and makes "the sinews of its thighs tightly wound." Hmm... a "tail" that's as "stiff" as a tree. If you haven't gotten it already, now pretend that you're a 13-year-old boy. Are you giggling yet?

    If not, I'll spell it out for you. Most Biblical scholars -- conservative and liberal alike -- agree that the most literal translation for that verse would be something like: "His penis stiffens like a pine; his testicles bulge with vigor.” So yes, it's one of the world's oldest genitalia jokes.

    Leave it to Answers in Genesis to turn one of the world's oldest bits of blue humor into supposed evidence that the earth is 6,000 years old! :eek:
     
  18. NCW8 Just Chilling

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Location:
    Baselland

    I guess that it depends upon how closely the US series copies the British one. In The Liver Birds, while their workplace played a role in a couple of stories (e.g. "Promotion" in season 2 where Sandra is made Beryl's Supervisor), most of the stories revolve around relationships with Family and boyfriends. In fact, they don't keep the same employer through-out the series - the season 3 episode "Birds on the Dole" shows how they cope with having lost their jobs.

    Cheers,
    Nigel.
     
  19. The Professor Pontif of the Guild

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Republic of Beerhaven
    Good update.

    And amazing previous update that I seem to have missed (how :confused:).

    I think I'm half of one of the few crosssex twins that doesn't share an initial with his sister!
    That said, I do think it was deliberate since we shared a few school classes growing up.

    I'll also note that my name was deliberately chosen to be normal but also rare. And how many others did I run into growing up? Lots and lots and lots :D. Indeed practically every spelling variation - and there are a lot of variations (8 at the last count) - so that I tended to introduce myself by spelling :rolleyes:
     
  20. NCW8 Just Chilling

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Location:
    Baselland
    Another Great Post !



    On the subject of gritty police shows with female leads, I wonder whether there will be a version of Cagney and Lacey ITTL. There is plenty of opportunity for the cast to be butterflied. As an obvious example, Loretta Swit was cast in the role of Cagney in the TV Movie, but couldn't take part in the TV Series because of her commitments to M*A*S*H. So ITTL she could appear in the TV Series. Of course, with no M*A*S*H, he career might be butterflied so that she doesn't get cast at all.


    Cheers,
    Nigel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013