That Wacky Redhead

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Brainbin, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    Thanks to everyone for your responses to my latest update, back on the previous page! I realize that there's a lot of information there, and I want to thank you all for slogging through it and mustering your replies. I would still love to hear from the rest of you about your thoughts as well, so by all means please feel free to contribute! Even if it's just a generic compliment - I'm not opposed to those or anything, you know :p As always, my responses to those posts from prior to my most recent update first...

    Thank you! I appreciate your constructive advice.

    Yes, I was referring to this technicality... which really does speak for itself, doesn't it? ;)

    To be honest, I was actually pulling for Thornton to outlive Smith, if only because he was so much older. Still, 92 years young is absolutely nothing to sneer at.

    You're welcome to speculate, but please bear in mind that you're never going to be reading about those topics in any detail in the timeline proper.

    Well, Innocent XIV was described in his days as a cardinal as "affable and smiling". Perhaps he won't be shrewd like JPII, but I wouldn't write him off entirely.

    You can say that again :cool:

    Thank you, Steve :)

    It does - though obviously there's a good deal of compression there, as each film is only about two hours long. (The OTL film clocked in at 132 minutes.)

    Intriguing analysis, Steve, though it remains to be seen how right you are, of course ;)

    You flatter me, Falkenburg :eek:

    Well, thank you, I do try. At the end of the day, timelines are really about people, both great and small.

    Have I ever mentioned how much I love it when people quote my catchphrases back at me? :D

    Thank you, Nigel :)

    A cute idea, but I'm afraid that won't be happening ITTL.

    The smoking pen, as it were - and note that The Jungle Book and The Aristocats (the two films from which Robin Hood cribbed the most heavily) were Disney's two immediately preceding releases. To be honest, it's almost as if the animators wanted to be caught. And it's no wonder why Don Bluth left later on, IOTL.

    No, I think I'm going to spare the good people of TTL the Wilhelm Scream (well, beyond its original appearances in 1950s B-movies, anyway).

    Thank you, Thande :)

    I'm glad that you were able to suspend your disbelief; personally, I found the rotoscoping to be horribly jarring.

    You mean, along the lines of Song of the South, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Or using some other method?

    I would have loved to see Tolkien's reaction to the OTL Lord of the Rings film, had he lived. That man had a gift for put-downs, no doubt about it.

    Sorry, Thande, I had to go with the creative consensus on this one, not being an enthusiast of the Legendarium myself.

    I'm very much in agreement, gentlemen (unsurprisingly). But would the BBC have been able to handle the sheer scale of a lavish and epic Lord of the Rings series by about 1970? It couldn't be any later, given that Tolkien sold the movie rights in 1969, IOTL (and ITTL, for that matter).

    Well, we've seen over and over again in popular culture that derivative can be good; it just can't be original. Then again, this is Disney we're talking about.

    Well, I told you I wasn't writing a utopia ;)

    I'm glad you love it! Being an advocate for television, I had ideological reservations about giving Network the Oscar, but even I can't always have it my way.

    And as for Bluhdorn? Well, that little misadventure has only just begun...

    ---

    There's just one more update in the 1978-79 cycle, which I hope to have ready - along with the interlude written by e of pi - before the end of the month, as is my custom. Now I make no promises, of course, and I will serve no update before its time; but I will say that encouraging words probably wouldn't hurt :D
     
  2. THE OBSERVER Independent Progressive

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    Think Bludhorn is f**ked. His supposed violations with taxes IOTL is about to be exposed big ITTL.
     
  3. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    I forgot to comment on this earlier--I have the same sentiment, it was one of my favourites as a kid. I didn't realise they reused animation from the Jungle Book: I was aware they had reused the look of some characters, but I was also of the generation that grew up watching TaleSpin! which involves the Jungle Book character designs being put into a different setting, so I just thought it was another example of that. (I've mentioned before that growing up on a mixture of cartoons from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s all mixed together can be slightly confusing because you don't actually know which is which at first; it took me a while before I knew Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet had been made in the 1960s rather than being contemporary programmes).

    Kind of, but a bit different: first because it was done by a Japanese animator so had a different style, and secondly because those examples explicitly have the hand-drawn bits supposed to be a different class of 'thing' to the live action bits (except perhaps Song of the South) whereas in Narnia the two are mixed together. I would try and find a clip of it for you but I can't view Youtube at work; maybe later.

    Bah, you of all people know that the 'creative consensus' is made up of the same kind of people who would say "Great show concept, Gene, but can we lose the whole journeying through space angle?" :p
     
  4. stevep Member

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    Brainbin

    It tends to be rather starved of funds but occasionally does magnificent epics. Currently their re-doing the I Claudius series I dimly remember from the 1st time around. [Amazing how many big names you suddenly recognise. When Augustus opened his mouth I did a double take and after a close examination concluded yes that is a young and rather lightly built, for him anyway, Brian Blessed;)].

    Hence, while some things might be a little cheap looking and they might emphasis the character interactions rather than the big battles, which would probably go down well with Tolkien himself, I think they could have done a good series. Probably, between their own tastes and Tolkien still being about getting very close to the books.

    Obviously would have to leave a lot of the smaller details out. I was introduced to LOTR via the 1980's radio series which covered 13 hours but still had to cut out a number of the 2ndary characters. However given the advantages of radio when it comes to big images [the listener makes his own] and that they didn't have the assorted side-adventures away from the original story of Jackson's films, they gave much more of the story. I was still blown away by the books when I rapidly consumed them afterwards.

    Steve
     
  5. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    The 1981 radio series is excellent, I bought it for my dad recently on umpteen tapes. The best part is the completely unexpected casting: Bill Nighy as Sam Gamgee? Oz Clarke the wine critic singing all the songs? But it works! And it's also why Ian Holm plays Bilbo Baggins in the Jackson films, as a homage to the fact that he played Frodo in the radio series.
     
  6. Falkenburg CMII

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    Heartily seconded.
    That box set is one of many reasons I cling to my collection of old cassettes. Much to my wife's chagrin. :D

    Falkenburg
     
  7. stevep Member

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    Fully agree guys. Bought the boxed set simply because of memories of listening to it on the radio and must locate where it is. The one I remember was the late Robert Stevens as Aragon, that voice seemed to sum him up perfectly.

    Steve
     
  8. Falkenburg CMII

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    As the badges said at the time, Radio is Hobbit 4-ming. ;)

    Falkenburg
     
  9. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    OK, at the start of this clip you can see a sequence with live action characters and animated Pegasi. It was also used in other sections and I recall a bit where Peter fights an animated flying something-or-other.
     
  10. Maltaran Well-Known Member

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    The reason people don't recognise him is not because he's young, it's because he's clean-shaven ;)
     
  11. stevep Member

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    Maltaran

    Partly true;) but also he looks a good bit smaller than the older Blessed I'm used to. Stocky perhaps but not the bear of a man he normally is. However the voice is the give-away.

    Steve
     
  12. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

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    First of all, great update -- it's helpful to see how cinema evolved in TTL at a glance. While I absolutely love anything that brings about Kubrick's Napoleon, I'm not sure I'd agree with these two films happening as OTL -- certainly not Barry Lyndon, which pretty much only exists because Kubrick didn't want all his preliminary work on Napoleon to go to waste.
     
  13. stevep Member

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    JFP

    I think you're misread the thread. That's what's happened OTL but not TTL and I think the section you quote points to this. Brainbin said:

    i.e. that Kubrick doesn't make Clockwork Orange but possibly someone else does later.

    Steve
     
  14. Francisco Cojuanco Fanned

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    I know, Brainbin...
     
  15. Brainbin Kingpin of the Cultural Cartel

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    It shall remain to be seen just how right (or wrong) you are! The Trial Of The Century will be the subject of its own update, I can tell you that much.

    I'll agree with you there - when you're a kid, especially, you can't contextualize animation styles and how they changed through history. Now, with even my cursory knowledge of artistic trends in the medium, it's very easy for me to look at, say, Snow White, and tell you that it was made in the 1930s. Back then? Absolutely not. In fact, thanks to the "Disney Vault", Snow White wasn't released on VHS until late 1994, by which time I'd accumulated virtually all of the Disney Animated Features Canon up to that point.

    On the flip side of that same coin, though, I think we all remember what havoc Gene wrecked, when left to his own devices :eek:

    What's interesting about adapting The Lord of the Rings to radio is that a version was done within Tolkien's lifetime - in fact, just a few years after the books were released - which he did not hold in very high regard. Of course, the BBC's wiping practices did not only cover television, but radio as well, and therefore those broadcasts have not survived for us to appraise them for ourselves. Apparently, Tolkien thought the BBC too cavalier in adapting the finer details (sound familiar?).

    That was absolutely terrible, Falkenburg, and you should be ashamed of yourself :p

    Thanks for sharing! I definitely think they're trying to evoke that same Disney feel on a budget (and note that 1988 was the same year that Roger Rabbit came out).

    Glad you're still reading, Maltaran :)

    Thanks for your compliment, JFP :) But Steve was correct with his interpretation - A Clockwork Orange was a popular and culturally significant novel, released relatively recently at the time of Kubrick's OTL adaptation, and I absolutely see someone adapting it, especially in the era of exploitative filmmaking that was the 1970s. As for The Luck of Barry Lyndon, it was a period novel written by an author of some renown (who also wrote Vanity Fair, which had been adapted for the screen half-a-dozen times as early as 1935).

    I just wanted to make sure. I appreciate your understanding :)

    I still hope to have my next update, which is the last of the 1978-79 cycle, ready sometime early this weekend. Our special guest author e of pi is currently rather... preoccupied with his own real-life affairs, so I haven't been in as constant a contact with him as is typically the case, but he informs me that he should be ready before the end of this month. Maybe it's just the bean counter in me, but I always like to have an update ready before we close the books on a given period ;)
     
  16. Falkenburg CMII

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    There are many reasons I should be ashamed of myself, Brainbin.:p
    Alas that particular pun isn't one of them as, IIRC, (BBC) Radio 4 is responsible, if that's the right word.

    Falkenburg
     
  17. NCW8 Just Chilling

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    For reference, here he is as PC "Fancy" Smith in Z-Cars:

    [​IMG]


    At this time, he was definitely more Brian Blessed than BRIAN BLESSED !

    Cheers,
    Nigel.
     
  18. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

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    Ah gotcha :eek: Yeah, I can see the novels being adopted by someone TTL (just not by Kubrick).
     
  19. stevep Member

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    Nigel

    Damn you! I just sat through the entire series of him as Henry VIII. Fantastic.:D:D

    Had forgotten about him as Fancy. Can dimly remember the early Z cars and his character.

    Steve
     
  20. Unknown Member

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    Corpus Christi, TX
    About Winthrop Rockefeller, Brainbin:

    It'd be hard for him to run in 1976, with him having died from pancreatic cancer in 1973 (which I doubt would be butterflied away, but have it be caught early and he might survive).

    Can't wait for the next update.