Streets of Detroit: Reborn

Good TL.

I am impressed that you're essentially rescuing George Romney and John DeLorean from the scrappy heap (hope the same is true of George's son, Mitt)...

Keep up the good work!!!

That was stupid to try and entrap Ralph Nader, GM.

Man, there are a lot of WIs in this TL alone (especially with DeLorean and GM)...
 
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Works for me.:cool::cool: (A Plus 8 with an EFI 318?:cool:) Also, if the 4-cam is remotely like the Northstar, & is available in (frex) the G-body or *Celebrity...:cool:

The four-cam new-gen V8 is gonna make the Northstar look weak. All of Detroit by 1980 is gonna be pushing for American fuel to move up in quality, and combined with more-advanced technology (next chapter for GM is gonna see cylinder-deactivation arrive) is gonna mean the five-liter version of the four-cam for sedans is gonna be about 375 hp, and the 5.5-liter version for the Corvette is gonna be more like 460 hp, with torque to match.

The Cav combination sounds like a dream come true.:cool::cool: I'll take 3.:p Fiero too.;)

The J-body on this world is gonna pretty much go like this:

GM Executive: "Have you driven this Honda, the Accord?"
GM Engineers: "Yep."
GM Executive: "Well, what are we gonna do about it?"
Powertrain Engineer: "Vega 2300 engine with Honda head in Cavalier and Cimarron, Quad-Four in Sunfire. Fuel injection on both engines. Five-speed manual with short shifter or four-speed automatic with faster shifting." Locking differential and equal-length driveshafts for all cars."
Executive: "Okay, that's pretty good....
Fisher Body Guy: "Galvanized steel unibody, plastic bodywork, aluminum frames for the doors, hood and trunk, polyethylene fender liners, expanding sealer in body joints. Five-stage electrophoretic painting for all the cars."
Interior Designer: "twenty-way adjustable bucket seats on all models, leather on the Cimarron. High-end plastics for the interior, with aluminum reinforcements for the solid feel. Standard power door locks, optional electric windows and door mirrors. Rear buckets or bench seat. Eight-speaker stereo system standard, with aerial on the roof. Air conditioning standard on all but the cheapest models."
Dynamics Engineer: "MacPherson strut front suspension, Multilink rear suspension, anti-roll bars on both ends, with forged steel suspension links and control arms, urethane bushings. Four-wheel disc brakes with anti-lock. Rack and pinion steering, with a choice of suspension settings up to the owner, with that adjustable by all of the dealers."
Assembly Engineer: "We have this assigned to Tacoma, Baltimore, Saint-Therese and South Gate because these places have the best facilities for making these cars right now. We've been leaning on the parts makers about this one, too."
Executive: *long silence* "I see you gentlemen have this well in hand...."

The Fiero in this world is gonna originally be planned as a commuter car....and then Pontiac's engineering corps is gonna hear about the Toyota MR2, and there is no way that they are gonna let Toyota beat them on this one. Result is that the Fiero is gonna have the great suspension it only got in late variants right from the start, a six-speed manual gearbox, limited-slip differential, fast-ratio rack and pinion steering, four-wheel disc brakes with standard ABS, good tires and absolutely no hint of it being a boring car to drive, powered by either the Quad Four or the Honda-head Vega 2300.

:( Oh, well.

If that comes out even a bit like the OTL Shelby K-cars...:cool:

I had the idea that Chrysler poaches a few guys from AMC during the development of the K-cars, who tell Chrysler all about the AMC-Renault four-wheel-drive system that is being developed. Chrysler then decides to work on such a system of their own. Result is optional four-wheel-drive on K-car sedans and wagons, and when Shelby shows up....well, I think you can guess. 225-horsepower Turbo II engine, beefy five-speed manual and symmetrical four wheel drive with limited-slip differentials. Can you say "Chrysler's Audi Quattro"? :cool:


How's that one grab you?:p I wouldn't expect diesels in hot rods, but why not make the oddballs at AMC do something really weird & cool?:cool::p

With Renault in the picture, I think a powerful diesel AMC motor might just be in the cards, perhaps even for a little car like the Alliance. (Or hell, how about a powerful diesel engine in the Espace? :eek: )

I am impressed that you're essentially rescuing George Romney and John DeLorean from the scrappy heap (hope the same is true of George's son, Mitt)...

Oh yes. Romney has now retired from AMC, is gonna be a United States Senator in the near future and will spend the last few years of his life as the head of the Mormon Church. DeLorean is gonna run the sports car company that bears his name for the rest of his life, along with his company developing lots of other style items, and by the time he passes his company will be well along the way to being an American rival to Porsche or Lotus.

As for Mitt, he's now a management guy at AMC, and he will go far....

That was stupid to try and entrap Ralph Nader, GM.

Yep, and they did it IOTL, too. Here, it cost them even more than it did IOTL.

Man, there are a lot of WIs in this TL alone (especially with DeLorean and GM)...

I do not object to looking into one yourself.... :)
 
TheMann said:
The four-cam new-gen V8 is gonna make the Northstar look weak.
:cool: I presume the *Allante won't be a dog, either.:cool: (I liked the styling. Now, if you wanted to make that a Packard...:cool:)
TheMann said:
All of Detroit by 1980 is gonna be pushing for American fuel to move up in quality, and combined with more-advanced technology (next chapter for GM is gonna see cylinder-deactivation arrive) is gonna mean the five-liter version of the four-cam for sedans is gonna be about 375 hp, and the 5.5-liter version for the Corvette is gonna be more like 460 hp, with torque to match.
:cool: Even better. I'm guessing that's an ethanol/methanol-gasoline blend, & not a carcinogen (the one Canada tried to ban & got sued over:eek::mad:).
TheMann said:
The J-body on this world is gonna pretty much go like this:

GM Executive: "Have you driven this Honda, the Accord?"
GM Engineers: "Yep."
GM Executive: "Well, what are we gonna do about it?"
Powertrain Engineer: "Vega 2300 engine with Honda head in Cavalier and Cimarron, Quad-Four in Sunfire. Fuel injection on both engines. Five-speed manual with short shifter or four-speed automatic with faster shifting." Locking differential and equal-length driveshafts for all cars."
Executive: "Okay, that's pretty good....
Fisher Body Guy: "Galvanized steel unibody, plastic bodywork, aluminum frames for the doors, hood and trunk, polyethylene fender liners, expanding sealer in body joints. Five-stage electrophoretic painting for all the cars."
Interior Designer: "twenty-way adjustable bucket seats on all models, leather on the Cimarron. High-end plastics for the interior, with aluminum reinforcements for the solid feel. Standard power door locks, optional electric windows and door mirrors. Rear buckets or bench seat. Eight-speaker stereo system standard, with aerial on the roof. Air conditioning standard on all but the cheapest models."
Dynamics Engineer: "MacPherson strut front suspension, Multilink rear suspension, anti-roll bars on both ends, with forged steel suspension links and control arms, urethane bushings. Four-wheel disc brakes with anti-lock. Rack and pinion steering, with a choice of suspension settings up to the owner, with that adjustable by all of the dealers."
Assembly Engineer: "We have this assigned to Tacoma, Baltimore, Saint-Therese and South Gate because these places have the best facilities for making these cars right now. We've been leaning on the parts makers about this one, too."
Executive: *long silence* "I see you gentlemen have this well in hand...."
I'm liking that a lot.:cool::cool: Except, I have to wonder if the Cimmaron isn't a mistake...the same way the 120 was for Packard.:eek:

If I were in the meeting, I'd be suggesting Chevy or Pontiac be offering a stripper version without many of the goodies & a higher-tune engine at a rock-bottom price, while Buick & Olds get all the bells & whistles. (I'm thinking Road Runner versus GS or 300C.)

One other thing: the hot rodder in me is wondering how much of the *Celebrity fits the *Cav? I'd love to see the *Celeb AWD wagon's (say) 250 or 292 V6 stuffed in an earlier *Cav, complete with AWD, truck clutch, wagon trans cooler & rad, *Celeb brakes...& NHRA- or IMSA-spec 'glass hood, trunk, bumpers...:cool::cool:
TheMann said:
The Fiero in this world is gonna originally be planned as a commuter car....and then Pontiac's engineering corps is gonna hear about the Toyota MR2, and there is no way that they are gonna let Toyota beat them on this one. Result is that the Fiero is gonna have the great suspension it only got in late variants right from the start, a six-speed manual gearbox, limited-slip differential, fast-ratio rack and pinion steering, four-wheel disc brakes with standard ABS, good tires and absolutely no hint of it being a boring car to drive, powered by either the Quad Four or the Honda-head Vega 2300.
:cool: Optional V6 is mandatory IMO; optional V8, too, please?;)
TheMann said:
I had the idea that Chrysler poaches a few guys from AMC during the development of the K-cars, who tell Chrysler all about the AMC-Renault four-wheel-drive system that is being developed. Chrysler then decides to work on such a system of their own. Result is optional four-wheel-drive on K-car sedans and wagons, and when Shelby shows up....well, I think you can guess. 225-horsepower Turbo II engine, beefy five-speed manual and symmetrical four wheel drive with limited-slip differentials. Can you say "Chrysler's Audi Quattro"? :cool:
I sure can.;) Can you say Jav Quattro? Or Caribbean Quattro?:p
TheMann said:
With Renault in the picture, I think a powerful diesel AMC motor might just be in the cards, perhaps even for a little car like the Alliance. (Or hell, how about a powerful diesel engine in the Espace? :eek: )
Why not?:p Use the truck block & truck clutch in the racing/rally program.;) (Or leave it for the hot rodders to use it.:cool:)

And talking about powerful diesels, why not offer that Packard Quattro with a diesel option?:eek::p:cool: Give AMG & Benz a few things to think about--& steal some market share in Europe. If you're being a bit adventurous, why not with OTL's Allante styling & a choice of 4-cam gas V8 & turbodiesel V8?:cool:
TheMann said:
by the time he passes his company will be well along the way to being an American rival to Porsche or Lotus.
:cool: WSC title in his future?:cool:
 
Part 5: The Nearly Unthinkable Hits Chrysler, American Small Car Invasion, Pugs, Pentastars and Soccer Moms

"It was clear by the time Iacocca took over the helm at Chrysler in October 1978 that the company was not faking its financial hell. The 'sales bank' and other stock price-raising tactics, the problems with quality in many of their cars and the huge warranty costs that were resulting from it and their falling sales had left Chrysler in a position of needing help right away. It also put the UAW in the position of being able, quite literally, to do a Nero thumbs up or thumbs down on the company. In the end, Reuther made the right call, though he would pay a stiff price for that early on, history would vindicate him." -- Denise McCluggage, More Than A Few Tall Tales From Detroit, 1992

"The Aspen and Volare were mistakes right from the start, just as Ford's Pinto had been....poor cars with abysmal build quality and aged design, at a time when the company needed something better. When combined with Chrysler Europe's failure....We had to answer back, and quickly. The fact that Hal [Sperlich, the designer of the minivan] was ready to go when we got together again at Chrysler was a godsend." -- Lee Iacocca, talking to Motor Trend, September 1986

"I had always feared that the union and the companies would get so used to confrontation that they would be unable to sort out differences, but what happened there shook me, I must admit....After people dying over the labor disputes of the seventies, you'd figure both sides would use their heads a little more, but Douglas [Fraser, then head of the UAW] didn't, and Roger [Smith, GM's CEO in the 1980s] certainly didn't....The two sides have always needed each other. We fought for so long that many forgot that. We can't forget it now. We all need each other too much." -- Walter Reuther in his memoirs, 1989

After the vicious battles between the automakers and their increasingly-militant labor force in the middle of the 1970s, things began to slowly change at the companies, despite the dictatorial old man that Henry Ford II had slowly become and Chrysler's management issues. AMC took a loss when George Romney retired in 1975, though his remarkably-successful handling of the huge labor unrest of the times made the long disrespect sent his way by Detroit sink away quite quickly. Romney's being awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Gerald Ford in 1976 was just the capper on his remarkable career in the auto industry, but Romney didn't stay retired long - he was asked by the Republican Party to be their candidate for the Michigan senate seat left vacant by the retirement of Philip Hart in 1976, a task he accepted, but having comfortably won election, he was appointed to the seat after Hart died of cancer in December 1976. He was easily re-elected in 1982, but less than two years after his re-election he was called upon to be a member of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church, and he was made President of the Church following Ezra Taft Benson's death in May 1992, a position Romney would only serve for three years before he died in July 1995. Romney's successor at AMC was his long-time Vice-President Roy Chapin Jr. - but one of the events of 1974 was the joining at AMC of George's son Mitt Romney, who would have a big effect in the future.

Chrysler's financial and management issues came to a head with its rushed introduction of the Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare smaller cars in 1976, as the cars were rushed into production as a response to the crumbling sales of the European-built small Chryslers, the ever-improving Vega and the incoming Escort and Fiesta. The cars were loaded with problems and were as notable for poor build quality as early Vegas had been, compounding Chrysler's reliance on its large car lineup (sales of which nosedived after the oil crisis) and the labor chaos of 1974-76. The Aspen and Volare's severe problems with corrosion and general unreliability, particularly with its electrics and starter motors, added to the company's problems.

Lee Iacocca's arrival at Chrysler saw the company need to get a considerable influx of cash if it was to stay alive. Iacocca first went to Ford for the money (who, legend has it, literally laughed him out of the room) and then to Volkswagen, who also balked, and eventually Peugeot, who helped a fair bit by buying Chrysler Europe from the company. Realizing just how dire the company's financial state was, Iacocca went to Washington to get a major loan guarantee, which was reluctantly given through an act of Congress signed by President Jimmy Carter on January 7, 1980. The terms were harsh - Chrysler Europe was sold to Peugeot, Chrysler Australia to Mitsubishi, numerous development programs were ended and numerous plants were closed, resulting in the laying off of over 30,000 workers. Chrysler fought for the ability to keep its American Mobile, Chrysler Defense and American Locomotive Company subsidiaries, in part because all three were profitable enterprises. The layoffs put Iacocca at odds with the UAW, which began negotiating new contracts with Chrysler in May 1979.

The UAW ended up in trouble here. Well aware of the likelihood of Chrysler's failure if they couldn't save it, Walter Reuther and most of the UAW's leadership went for a conciliatory tone, saying that they had to make sacrifices here in order to save the company. Iacocca and several of his top people helped this by loudly and publicly cutting their salaries down to $1 a year, and offering to give promises in writing to laid-off UAW workers and keep their names in a database, saying that when the company turned around, they would get first call on new jobs if they wished to get them. But the UAW's schism, led by Douglas Fraser, said that American auto workers had given up enough in the battles just a few years prior, and he loudly told Reuther to push hard against Iacocca. Reuther ignored this and brought a reasonable deal to Chrysler workers - who voted it down by a more than 3-1 margin. Reuther and Iacocca kept talking, with Fraser's yelling causing more problems. Reuther sought to expel Fraser from the union in September 1979, but the control board of the union threw that idea out. Reuther ultimately did get a good deal with Chrysler in January 1980, but a month after that he suffered a heart attack and retired from the union - and to his intense displeasure, Fraser would up succeeding him. Despite the acrimonious labor battle, Iacocca's guys went full-steam ahead with their new car plans - which resulted in the Chrysler K-cars, which hit the market in 1981.

Indeed, 1981 was the year of "Detroit's Small Car Revolution", as all four of Detroit's automakers came out with a veritable flood of small and mid-sized cars, all of them excellent cars. It couldn't come at a much better time - the United States' economy in 1980-81 was in rather rough shape, and such cars were sure to be great sellers. The Chrysler K-Car twins of the Dodge Dart and Plymouth Valiant, as well as the new-for-1979 Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon (the last real designs from Chrysler Europe before its collapse), walked head-on into the General Motors J-cars (Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire and the much-more-upscale Cadillac Cimarron), the Ford Escort and Sierra and the newcomers from American Motors and new partner Renault. Despite the seemingly-sudden flood of such cars, the K-cars were up to the challenge. Designed with new engines with Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection on all models, the K-cars were good performers, though the genuinely-fast AMC Spirit outgunned it and the sophisticated J-cars and the Renault Alliance outcornered it. The K-cars were quantum leaps on what had been sold by Chrysler before in just about every possible way, and it showed in the sales figures. Chrysler sold over 400,000 such cars in 1981 - which turned out to be one of the best years in decades for Detroit, where the four major American automakers between them captured over 90% of the American car market for the first time since 1965. It was a sign for Detroit, and while the cars they introduced were not perfect, they were excellent.

Indeed, as Chrysler had hit financial trouble, so had American Motors - but after negotiations that went back nearly a decade, AMC was ready to seal a massive partnership with French-owned automaker Renault. The deal, agreed to in January 1978, would see Renault's long-standing expertise in smaller cars and diesel engines brought to American Motors, while Renault (which at the time had the PRV V6 as its largest engine) would gain from AMC's knowledge of larger cars, as well as Renault being able to use AMC's large dealer network.

The most notable reality for the AMC-Renault deal took a while to get going, but it was that Renault's European products weren't well-suited to North American markets, and while MC did have financial issues, it did not have any problems with engineering or quality assurance, and by 1983 Renault had by and large trusted the Americanization of its products to AMC's design and engineering corps, who frequently came back with products better than the originals. Renault's 9 and 11 models, introduced in 1980, were sold immediately as the Renault Alliance in North America - and perhaps the first sign that AMC knew the score was that they insisted on stiffer body fabrication and better suspension tuning for the Alliance, and the AMC I-4E and I-4SE engines would be the power from the Alliance, dumping the ancient Cleon-Fonte engines the car made do with in Europe. It didn't take long for Renault to realize AMC's point, and the I-4E began production in Europe (fitted with Renix fuel injection) in 1982. AMC's engineering, design and marketing staff were not unwilling to tell Renault that their current cars simply were outdated compared to the competition, a problem that Renault saw as a problem as much as anyone else did. Renault swung back at this with the Renault 25 in 1983 (which used an AMC-developed automatic after Renault versions proved to be a reliability nightmare in testing), while AMC had by 1980 nearly finished developing the AMC Spirit small sports car, the AMC Eagle wagon (widely regarded as one of the first crossover SUVs) and in 1984 brought out the Jeep Cherokee, another design innovation. All three of the new AMCs were fitted with their new symmetrical four-wheel-drive, the SX/4 system. Renault promptly copied that, too, and as part of its deals began selling the Packard luxury cars in Europe in 1983. Renault's involvement did, however, provide AMC with access to the PRV V6, which they began using in the Spirit, Eagle and Ambassador, while the VI-8 engine (which was effectively two I-4 engines on a common crankshaft) also saw wide use. The Renault Medallion, launched in 1985, combined with the 25 to replace the obsolescent mid-sized AMC Matador. Renault also began the importation of the Fuego small sports coupe at AMC dealers in 1982, but again AMC's design staff worked over the car first, to its benefit - and Renault's decision to stick with a mildly-modified version of the Renault 18's suspension in the Fuego bit them hard. The car's sales tumbling by 1984, AMC's engineers threw the car a lifeline, having developed a new suspension for it based heavily on that used on the AMC Spirit. The Fuego began using the AMC suspension when the car began American production in February 1986. Renault showed they had learned the lessons when they replaced the Fuego, however, with the Renault Alpine GTA, a rear-engined, rear-wheel-drive coupe (which could be had with the SX/4 all-wheel-drive system from 1991) which they launched in 1988.

"Renault got all kinds of crap from the French unions and their political masters in the 1980s, but the fact of the matter was that their cars were crap. Peugeot-Citroen had done far better, Volkswagen was doing much better, the Japanese were out of their league, even Gurney Austin Rover and Fiat were ahead in terms of design. They were using engine designs that dated to the 1950s, suspension designs that dated to the 1960s and dated styling and interiors. And yet, they were wondering why the other Europeans were coming for them, and the unions were pissed off that Renault couldn't keep hemorraging money. After what happened to Georges, one couldn't really avoid the political realities, but AMC's design guys knew it. So we all went to Paris, showed the politicians what we had on deck, and told them that if Renault stayed in, we could make it prosper in the Americas. They saw it, and they knew we weren't screwing around. And that's why they stayed in." -- Mitt Romney, talking about the tumultuous years of relationship between (then state-owned) Renault and American Motors in 1986-87

"If AMC hadn't been so influential in both their own work and what Renault was doing, the death of Georges Besse could well have been it for them, because they knew Mitterrand and his ilk were never going to invest money in America while jobs were being lost in France without there being a big and obvious benefit. That's why Mitt, Richard, Kelly and the others went to Paris and spilled the beans to Mitterrand. Renault had cash and market position, but what AMC did was take the expertise in design and engineering they had and passed it to Renault. Without it, the Alliance and Encore, Medallion, the 25, even the Espace, Fuego and Alpine saw AMC's boys go to work, and everyone looked at what they could do and was impressed....Renault may have financially saved AMC, but if it hadn't been for AMC's guys, Renault would never have been able to design and build what they did." -- Chris Harris, in Chris Harris on Cars, during a test of a Alpine A610 in 2011

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An enthusiast-owned 1992 Alpine A610-4, equipped with the SX/4 all-wheel-drive system

1981 was struck again with strikes, but in this case is was a major series of wildcat strikes that began in 1981, opposing the firing of air traffic controllers by President Reagan in August 1981. New UAW leader Douglas Fraser was one of the biggest leaders of these strikes, which turned into a political nightmare for Reagan. The automakers tried to keep things even, pointing out that they had nothing to do with the firing of controllers, and while the strikes happened, vehicle quality was unaffected and the UAW and the automakers didn't end up heavily at odds over this. (The automakers were not pleased about the wildcat strikes to say the least, but it didn't sour the improving relationships between them.) The strikes were a harbringer of what was to come in the decade in America, but they would ultimately end up being to American automakers' benefit.

Chrysler's K-cars were followed the vehicle that ultimately followed them - the legendary Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyagers, the original American minivans.

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A 1985 Dodge Caravan Sport

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A 1986 Renault Espace Quadra

"We saw the drawings and plans of the Espace and saw a problem. The whole idea of the minivan was a van for people that wanted something better than the full-size van. We knew of Renault and AMC's working together, and when we found out the Espace was gonna come stateside, the original MiniMax had to get a facelift. So we did just that, and what we got was wonderful." -- Tom Gale, Chrysler Senior Designer, talking about the impact on the design of the original Caravan of the Espace to AutoWeek in November 1985

The arrival of the minivan to America, with the Dodge Caravan and Renault Espace both entering the market in early 1984, marked another shift. Both were designed to carry six to eight passengers, and both were large, roomy vehicles built on car chassis. The Espace used conventional doors to the single passenger-side sliding door on the Caravan, which gained a second sliding door for 1987, but it was clear that the two were gunning for each other - and that they did. American Espaces used AMC's 2-liter I-4ESX supercharged four-cylinder engine, whereas the Caravan ran with Chrysler's 2.5-liter four-cylinder. The introduction of the Ford Aerostar in 1984 and Chevrolet Astro in 1985 didn't harm the sales to the Caravan and Espace to any great degree, and when combined with the K-car, Chrysler paid off its loans from Washington with remarkable speed - and with that done, Iacocca got started on working out a better future still for Chrysler, starting with heading back to Europe.

Peugeot's purchase of Chrysler Europe had potentially big upsides for the French automaker, but the costs of using those assets had caused Peugeot to run a series of huge losses in the early 1980s. Knowing that, when Chrysler returned to Europe looking for an alliance in 1984, they knew better than to be harsh about the terms. Chrysler hadn't stopped selling the Matra Rancho and Munera, but Chrysler wanted to look for beneficial mutual agreements. With Peugeot's North American dealer network struggling, that alone would have been good for them - but Chrysler's offering to sell its fast-selling minivan in Europe was a good deal, too. Chrysler wanted to use the Peugeot 205 subcompact as an entry-level small car, a wish made all the more wanting when Iacocca went for a blast on the legendary Col de Turini rally stage in southern France in a 205 GTi, an experience he called "one of the greatest thrills in my life". The Peugeot-Chrysler deal was a deal that both sides benefitted from, and so it wasn't hard for the companies to sign it. With that, the Peugeot 205, now badged the Dodge Colt, arrived in America in dealer showrooms late in 1986, about the same time as the Chrysler minivans, using Peugeot's PRV V6 engines, began to be sold in Europe.

General Motors' small car revolutionary, the J-cars, entered production in October 1980 with the goal of replacing the Corvair, Nova and Vega, as well as the other GM compacts. It had big shoes to fill, and when combined with GM's problems with quality control in the 1970s, the J-cars couldn't be losers - and GM went every extra mile possible to ensure they weren't losers. Built in two-door and four-door sedan models, a two-door coupe, station wagon and convertible, the three J-cars, the Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire and Cadillac Cimarron, were designed well and engineered well - starting with the new engines they used, those being GM's Quad-Four engine family.

The Quad-Four had originally begun as Oldsmobile project, but it was soon used on all kinda of GM projects. An inline-four in 2.2-liter and 2.4-liter variants, the Quad-Four was a highly-advanced engine, with an aluminum block with steel liners, a 16-valve aluminum head and aluminum connecting rods, a knife-edged and balanced crankshaft and external balance shafts to improve the engine's NVH characteristics and allow for faster revving. All Quad-Fours were equipped with modern fuel injection, and the consequence was that the Quad-Four motor was able to get both anywhere from 142 to 185 horsepower, and yet still deliver excellent fuel efficiency. The J-cars were the first five-speed manual transmissions and four-speed automatics used by GM, and GM also took the gamble and designed the J-cars with plastic bodywork, lightening weight. The J-car was also sold differently, with all cars being well-equipped to keep costs reasonable - though the J-car was still rather more expensive than its rivals in cars like the Honda Accord and the Chrysler K-cars. Initial concerns about production meant that 1982-84 model year Cavaliers and Cadillac Cimarrons used a variant of the Vega 2300 engine with the Honda head, which in J-car duty gained a number of detail improvements to ensure its suitability with GM's new world-beater.

Having learned a harsh lesson with the Vega, GM began testing hundreds of K-car prototypes on American roads in 1978, and they drove them hard, stacking over tens of millions of miles in all weather conditions to make sure they were right on, this testing revealing the Quad-Four's rather raucous nature and then proving that the lighter rotating assembly and balance shafts did the trick in settling it down. The car was built with much greater attention to detail, particularly in paint and trim, right up to the point of the plant building the J-cars, GM's assembly plants at South Gate, California, Janesville, Wisconsin and Lansing, Michigan, all had new paint shops and body shops for their new models, as well as state-of-the-art plants for producing the plastic body panels. The interior of the car was designed without the brightwork of many past American cars, and was also designed with better seats and interior arrangements.

It all made a big difference. Road testers driving the Cavalier and Sunfire in early 1981 in the run-up to the car's launch in May 1981 noted that the Cavalier was an excellent car in nearly any aspect imaginable - fast, excellent handling, frugal on fuel mileage, well-equipped and built solidly. The Cadillac Cimarron was even better still, having gotten a nicer-still interior with leather seats, brushed metal trim and all kinds of extras, including standard sunroofs, six-speaker surround-sound audio systems and automatic windshield wipers. While many Cadillac afficionados were not real impressed with the Cimarron at first, it didn't take long before the car's excellent assembly quality, effective handling and braking, luxurious interior and clearly well-done engineering won many of these people over, with the car truly being an example of a small Cadillac that really was worthy of being called a Cadillac.

Production got off to a slow start at South Gate, Janesville and Lansing, more than anything because of the high standards which GM was aiming for for parts quality were having to be met by parts suppliers, but it didn't matter in the end - one customer after another who got their cars noted that the higher price and the wait for it had been worth it. Most loved were those who bought the coupe versions of the cars, which were often compared (in most cases favorably) to much more expensive cars. While the Ford Escort and Sierra and the K-cars were good cars, the J-cars were soon widely being seen as the most equal of the equals. The J-cars weren't done when they were new, either - GM's new small-displacement V6 engines debuted in 1983 Cavalier Z/24 and Cimarron, and the Z/24 in addition to the new V6 added fast-ratio steering, stiffer springs and multi-action shocks, along with adjustable anti-roll bars and stickier tires, along with one of the first uses of electronic traction control. (The Cavalier Z/24 really needed this - stock, the new 2.8-liter V6 made 210 horsepower, and simple modifications to intake and exhaust systems could push that well beyond that number.) The J-cars design principles and many elements of the design were shared with the A-platform cars (Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century) which debuted in 1983, as well as the L platform (Chevrolet Corsica and Beretta) which began production in 1985.

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A 1986 Chevrolet Cavalier Z/24

"Everybody knew that Detroit was working on new small cars, including the Japanese, but nobody saw what was coming. Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen....none of them saw it coming. None of them saw the J-cars and Spirit was being rivals even to car companies like BMW, and the Japanese were impressed by the K-cars and the Escort and Sierra to the point that they were left without much of a response. In 1981, after years of making steady headway into America's car markets, Japan, Inc. was left on the defensive as Detroit went for Tokyo's jugular, and went right to the markets they had been cultivating for years. It's a bold play by Detroit, but judging by the fact that over a million and a half small and mid-sized cars have rolled out to happy new owners in the last year from the Detroit automakers, it must be said that if Japan isn't ready to answer back, they'd better get cracking on it." -- BusinessWeek, in an article on the Japanese automakers, December 1981

"People always tout the cars they sell, but I'm willing to give out a bigger promise. We think you'll love the new 1982 Chryslers, but if you find a better car, buy it." -- Lee Iacocca, in a Chrysler television advertisement, 1982

"Detroit has spent much of the last ten years undertaking soul searching on an amazing scale. GM is still management wise quite insular, but even with that Detroit these days is asking themselves the important questions, and that fact is what is making cars like Cavalier and Escort and Spirit and Dart. With the new cars and trucks now coming out of Detroit in huge numbers, what we see out there now is what we have hoped to see for decades, that being Detroit finally, at long last, getting the plot with regards to small cars and quality engineering. And if this is a sign of the future, Japan should be scared to death that the Americans will bring their cars to the Home Islands. This is a new Detroit, and if people aren't paying attention now, they soon will be." -- John Basinger, opinion writer for Motor Trend, September 1982

It was starting to become good times indeed, but the best was, as Frank Sinatra so well put it, still yet to come....
 
Very enjoyable story enjoying each update more and more and I'm glad to see the Espace isn't going to get the Top Gear Treatment I hope in this T/L



The-Hog-Ring-Auto-Upholstery-News-Top-Gear-Renault-Espace-Convertible.jpg
 
Good update.

Hoping Detroit isn't like in Kentucky Fried Movie, where the CIA agent screams upon learning he's being sent to...Detroit.
 
Good update.

Hoping Detroit isn't like in Kentucky Fried Movie, where the CIA agent screams upon learning he's being sent to...Detroit.

Considering how well-off it was in the earlier iteration of "Streets of Detroit," I doubt that its mention will cause great panic to relocating intelligence officers ITTL.
 
Could you do a chapter about the effects on Detroit itself (for one thing, I don't see it as being the setting for Robocop)...

Wonder if you'll do a redux similar to this for Land of Milk and Honey...
 
Could you include some more info about the trucks and SUVs of the TL please, I love performance cars as much as anyone but I think it would be cool to branch it out a bit more, maybe mention International Harvester?

Oh and the other subsidiaries of the Big-3 would be interesting like defense, railroad, big rigs, and construction.
 
The only car history I've read is The Reckoning whose key issues raised you're busy solving (yay!), but the '60s-'70s is easily my favourite era in car design. So I'm basically just assuming all this stuff happened :). I certainly don't know (much) better, lol.

Tons of work clearly, I love the car pictures and the design trends.
 
TheMann said:
Part 5: The Nearly Unthinkable Hits Chrysler, American Small Car Invasion, Pugs, Pentastars and Soccer Moms
Another fine update, as usual.:)

About the minivans: what are the chances for the Trans Sport looking more like the OTL show version? (I like it much better than the aardvark nose.:rolleyes:) And getting the 90deg V6, perhaps with the turbo?:cool:
TheMann said:
J-cars (Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire and the much-more-upscale Cadillac Cimarron)
Can I ask why no Buick or Olds?
TheMann said:
the new AMCs were fitted with their new symmetrical four-wheel-drive, the SX/4 system.
:cool: As said, I can hardly wait for this under the Packards.:cool:
TheMann said:
replace the obsolescent mid-sized AMC Matador
How's that impacting the NASCAR teams? I'm guessing the Renault version isn't legal...;)
TheMann said:
Renault Alpine GTA, a rear-engined, rear-wheel-drive coupe (which could be had with the SX/4 all-wheel-drive system from 1991) which they launched in 1988.
What happens to the Alliance? Better, I hope, with AMC's I4. (I liked the OTL looks.;))
TheMann said:
The J-cars were the first five-speed manual transmissions and four-speed automatics used by GM, and GM also took the gamble and designed the J-cars with plastic bodywork
:cool: If that's the Getrag & TH125...:cool: And good on 'em for going the OTL Fiero route with the body panels.
TheMann said:
Road testers driving the Cavalier and Sunfire in early 1981 in the run-up to the car's launch in May 1981 noted that the Cavalier was an excellent car in nearly any aspect imaginable - fast, excellent handling, frugal on fuel mileage, well-equipped and built solidly.
Also good on 'em.;)
TheMann said:
Cadillac Cimarron was even better still
I continue to think this is a mistake...
TheMann said:
GM's new small-displacement V6 engines debuted in 1983 Cavalier Z/24 and Cimarron, and the Z/24 in addition to the new V6 added fast-ratio steering, stiffer springs and multi-action shocks, along with adjustable anti-roll bars and stickier tires, along with one of the first uses of electronic traction control. (The Cavalier Z/24 really needed this - stock, the new 2.8-liter V6 made 210 horsepower, and simple modifications to intake and exhaust systems could push that well beyond that number.)
I'd love to know how. Are these OTL's 2v, or a 4v? Because Grumpy Jenkins squeezed a 2v 2.8 pretty hard back in the day & only got 189hp. (With the '87-88 swirlport, it might hit 195; maybe the FI & an optimized intake could do the trick.)
TheMann said:
The J-cars design principles and many elements of the design were shared with the A-platform cars (Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century) which debuted in 1983, as well as the L platform (Chevrolet Corsica and Beretta) which began production in 1985.
Thoughts about fitting A- & L-bodies with the 90deg turbo V6?:cool: Or, better still, the V8?:cool::cool: (FYI, if you don't know {I'm betting you do;)}, the L-body could have had a factory V8 with no cutting.) It's also a fact even the GNR 231 turbo wouldn't overpower the TH125 (with the Cad clutch packs, it could take over 250pd-ft), so if the shock towers don't need cutting in the A-bodies, the 231 shouldn't create durability issues. (Maybe GM management is still too leery about warranties...?:rolleyes:)

I also wonder about a "rodder version" J- or A-body with the TH125, 4cyl 1st gear, 231 turbo...:cool::cool: Better still, a 252 or 290...:cool::cool::cool:
TheMann said:
It was starting to become good times indeed, but the best was, as Frank Sinatra so well put it, still yet to come....
:cool:
 
Very enjoyable story enjoying each update more and more and I'm glad to see the Espace isn't going to get the Top Gear Treatment I hope in this T/L

Whether Top Gear is going to try something like that again is debatable. But here, the Renault (or AMC in North America ;) ) Espace is right alongside the Chrysler minivans for the beginning of the people carrier trend. The Espace also teaches lots of lessons to the following minivans, particularly in the interior and handling departments....

Good update.

Hoping Detroit isn't like in Kentucky Fried Movie, where the CIA agent screams upon learning he's being sent to...Detroit.

Detroit is a long ways from it in this world. As I am largely following The Land of Milk and Honey for the setting outside of the automobile world, Detroit largely goes that way....meaning the city diversifies massively from its auto industry heart starting in the late 1960s, while seeking to improve the lives of its poorer and minority populations at the same time. By the 1980s, this is paying real dividends.

Considering how well-off it was in the earlier iteration of "Streets of Detroit," I doubt that its mention will cause great panic to relocating intelligence officers ITTL.

See above. It does have to be said, however, that intelligence officers concerned with industrial espionage probably will find themselves around Detroit rather frequently in this world, not that they might dislike that fact....

Could you do a chapter about the effects on Detroit itself (for one thing, I don't see it as being the setting for Robocop)...

I'll probably do that early in the 21st Century. Got a lot to get to before then.

Wonder if you'll do a redux similar to this for Land of Milk and Honey...

Maybe, if there is enough interest.... ;)

Could you include some more info about the trucks and SUVs of the TL please, I love performance cars as much as anyone but I think it would be cool to branch it out a bit more, maybe mention International Harvester?

Oh and the other subsidiaries of the Big-3 would be interesting like defense, railroad, big rigs, and construction.

As far as International Harvester goes, with Jeep being part of AMC from the start and knowing of the problems they had, I'm thinking that International-Harvester may face its best fate being sold to somebody else (Chrysler would be the most logical, as in this world Jeep is owned by AMC) in the 1960s as I-H first started to have financial problems. (Chrysler did buy International-Harvester's Latin American divisions in 1966 IOTL, so one could repurpose that being that the company bought I-H's struggling pickup truck and SUV divisions.

I don't think the truck divisions would be all that different, though I did have the idea of GM using its expertise in turbocharging developed from both production road cars and its locomotive division (EMD produced the first turbocharged diesel locomotive in 1958) to start offering Detroit Diesel turbodiesel engines in the Suburban, K5 Blazer and C/K pickups starting when they were redesigned in 1967. (This requires the use of four-stroke diesels, but that's not hard to accomplish.) Ford would probably eventually do the same thing with the Bronco and F-Series, while Jeep would bring out the Gladiator full-size pickup truck in 1962 and the Wagoneer in 1963, while the company would have the smaller Jeep Comanche pickup introduced in 1984 (at the same time as the Cherokee, which it is mechanically similar to) and the Jeep Traffic and Master vans introduced in 1980-81. (These are AMC variants of the Renault Master and Trafic.) Practically all the Jeeps were available with Sofim engines in 1980-85, before Mack Trucks' new smaller turbodiesel engines (Mack was part-owned by Renault from 1979 onward, just shifting that a little here) start showing up in Jeep vehicles.

Chrysler's purchase of International Harvester would see the pickup trucks axed but the Travelall and Scout live on, with the Travelall being replaced by the Dodge Durango (the OTL Ramcharger with a different name) in 1972. The Scout grows to be a bright light for Chrysler in the 1970s, particularly Scout II versions and the smaller Dodge Dakota pickup truck, which debuts in 1977. The company would produce a car-based pickup (the Dodge Rampage) starting in 1984, while the Dodge pickups would be completely redesigned in 1985. The Dodge Scout remains as part of the Dodge pickup lineup to this day.

For Ford, they (like GM) began importing small pickups in 1972 (GM had the Chevrolet LUV, Ford had the Courier), but both were replaced by the American-designed Chevrolet S-10 and Ford Ranger in 1980, while Ford also brings in the Ford Transit as a complement to the Econoline starting in 1985. The F-Series largely goes on as OTL, but almost all pickups and SUVs have anti-lock brakes by 1980 (the pickups in particular need it because of their weight distribution when unloaded) and Ford's pickups have (good) Navistar turbodiesel engine options by the late 1970s.
 
About the minivans: what are the chances for the Trans Sport looking more like the OTL show version? (I like it much better than the aardvark nose.:rolleyes:) And getting the 90deg V6, perhaps with the turbo?:cool:

I'm not sure what to do about the Trans Sport concept. It's gorgeous but not really very practical, particularly the deeply-curved glass and gullwing doors. That said, its styling is very neat, and I'm definitely gonna have to jack the six-bucket-seat interior of it, if for no other reason than the fact that the Espace has a similar interior, and bench seats may not be the best solution for these vans. I may just have to go with the dustbuster, though perhaps with the concept car's nose.

Can I ask why no Buick or Olds?

Market saturation, more than anything. They already have three J-bodies, is five really necessary? Besides, I got some cool stuff coming for both Buick and Oldsmobile. ;)

:cool: As said, I can hardly wait for this under the Packards.:cool:

That one's coming up pretty soon.

How's that impacting the NASCAR teams? I'm guessing the Renault version isn't legal...;)

AMC hasn't been involved in factory NASCAR racing since 1967. They don't find it to be a particularly attractive marketing tool. Renault's involvement with AMC comes just as Formula One grows in popularity in North America, and since ITTL Formula One ends up divided into two series in 1980 to 1982, both sides of the F1 civil war find themselves desperate to secure the American market. Combine that with American world champs in 1977 (A.J. Foyt) and 1978 (Mario Andretti), both driving cars powered by Ford engines and running on Goodyear tires, and you see that indeed AMC's efforts may be better spent in F1, Indycars, North American F3 (which replaces Formula Atlantic in 1981) and IMSA, as well as rallying (Spirit chassis + SX/4 all-wheel-drive + big-boost turbocharged Renault power = one stupid-fast Group B challenger) and eventually touring cars.

What happens to the Alliance? Better, I hope, with AMC's I4. (I liked the OTL looks.;))

OTL's base, but with better suspension tuning, disc brakes with ABS, AMC I-4 engines, five-speed manual and four-speed automatic transmissions and better assembly quality. Not quite the GM J-bodies, but equal with the Chrysler K-cars and perhaps a little superior to the Ford Escort and Sierra. Very good cars, though, and unlike the J-Body and K-cars, available in sedan and five-door hatchback form.

:cool: If that's the Getrag & TH125...:cool:

You are correct.

And good on 'em for going the OTL Fiero route with the body panels.

They have plenty of advantages - less susceptible to damage (and harder to spot damage if it does occur), fewer issues with color matching, reduces corrosion and is recyclable into new cars.

I continue to think this is a mistake...

The Cimarron shares the platform and engines and that's about it - they aren't even made on the same production lines. (Cimarrons are made in Lansing while other J-body cars are made at South Gate, Oshawa, Baltimore and Fairfax.) The Cimarron's interior is entirely unique to it, and it uses its own suspension and brake setups.

I'd love to know how. Are these OTL's 2v, or a 4v? Because Grumpy Jenkins squeezed a 2v 2.8 pretty hard back in the day & only got 189hp. (With the '87-88 swirlport, it might hit 195; maybe the FI & an optimized intake could do the trick.)

This new engine isn't the GM 60-degree engine of OTL, it's a completely new aluminum-block-and-heads four-cam 24-valve V6 design, using a tuned intake manifold and close-port fuel injection and bears no similarity to the OTL unit. In 2.8-liter form, its enormously oversquare and revs quickly.

Thoughts about fitting A- & L-bodies with the 90deg turbo V6?:cool: Or, better still, the V8?:cool::cool: (FYI, if you don't know {I'm betting you do;)}, the L-body could have had a factory V8 with no cutting.) It's also a fact even the GNR 231 turbo wouldn't overpower the TH125 (with the Cad clutch packs, it could take over 250pd-ft), so if the shock towers don't need cutting in the A-bodies, the 231 shouldn't create durability issues. (Maybe GM management is still too leery about warranties...?:rolleyes:)

I also wonder about a "rodder version" J- or A-body with the TH125, 4cyl 1st gear, 231 turbo...:cool::cool: Better still, a 252 or 290...:cool::cool::cool:

I did know about the ability to wedge a small-block into an L-body car, but the real issue with doing that is handling. The L-body cars of this world are massively stiffer cars than OTL, but there would be three major problems with V8 L-bodies - first is handling, the second is transmission durability (The TH125 has nothing like the ability to handle V8 engines, and the 4T60 is iffy for it) and the third is overheating. The turbocharged Buick 231 has the second and third problems as well only worse, because the Buick Turbo V6 was a powerful unit even at middle boost levels (it made upwards of 350 ft-lbs in GNX duty), was an iron-block engine with a big turbo that on most cars was not entirely heat-shielded and it tended to run rather hotter than most other GM cars of the time.

What I had in mind for these was that TTL's TH125 and Getrag F35 gearboxes are rather tougher than OTL, allowing for the greater beans of the cars involved to be used to full effect without concerns over broken transmissions. The new 'Future One' V6 first introduced on the A-body and some J-body cars is a sign of what is to come, and the 'Future Two' engines that are first put to work in the Cadillac Allante and Chevrolet Camaro SS are designed alongside even-beefier versions of these gearboxes. Such is the power output of these engines that they use limited-slip differentials and equal-length driveshafts to avoid torque steer.
 
TheMann said:
I'm not sure what to do about the Trans Sport concept. It's gorgeous but not really very practical, particularly the deeply-curved glass and gullwing doors. That said, its styling is very neat
I wouldn't copy the gullwings... Let's not get crazy.:p As for the windshield curve, I could live with a compromise, if it comes out looking more like OTL's later short-nose 3.8-powered version.
TheMann said:
Market saturation, more than anything. They already have three J-bodies, is five really necessary? Besides, I got some cool stuff coming for both Buick and Oldsmobile. ;)

The Cimarron shares the platform and engines and that's about it - they aren't even made on the same production lines. (Cimarrons are made in Lansing while other J-body cars are made at South Gate, Oshawa, Baltimore and Fairfax.) The Cimarron's interior is entirely unique to it, and it uses its own suspension and brake setups.
I look forward to it.;) I guess I like the variety; IDK if I'd want to deny Buick/Olds buyers the chance to own pocket rockets. That said, & to extend the Cad argument, it's the shared platform that troubles me, & IMO it undermines the Cad brand, & might do with Buick/Olds, too.:eek: AIUI, you've done what Cad did OTL, & it bombed.:eek:
TheMann said:
That one's coming up pretty soon.
:cool:
TheMann said:
AMC hasn't been involved in factory NASCAR racing since 1967. They don't find it to be a particularly attractive marketing tool. Renault's involvement with AMC comes just as Formula One grows in popularity in North America, and since ITTL Formula One ends up divided into two series in 1980 to 1982, both sides of the F1 civil war find themselves desperate to secure the American market. Combine that with American world champs in 1977 (A.J. Foyt) and 1978 (Mario Andretti), both driving cars powered by Ford engines and running on Goodyear tires, and you see that indeed AMC's efforts may be better spent in F1, Indycars, North American F3 (which replaces Formula Atlantic in 1981) and IMSA, as well as rallying (Spirit chassis + SX/4 all-wheel-drive + big-boost turbocharged Renault power = one stupid-fast Group B challenger) and eventually touring cars.
Much as I like that, I do find it odd AMC would drop NASCAR TTL; in general, I'd expect U.S. car buyers to pay more attention to it than Group B &/or F1. (The idea of a "stupid fast" AWD GpB?:cool:)
TheMann said:
OTL's base, but with better suspension tuning, disc brakes with ABS, AMC I-4 engines, five-speed manual and four-speed automatic transmissions and better assembly quality. Not quite the GM J-bodies, but equal with the Chrysler K-cars and perhaps a little superior to the Ford Escort and Sierra. Very good cars, though, and unlike the J-Body and K-cars, available in sedan and five-door hatchback form.
:cool: I like it. (To be fair, I'd probably be be driving a used Cav.;))
TheMann said:
You are correct.
Again, good on 'em.
TheMann said:
They have plenty of advantages - less susceptible to damage (and harder to spot damage if it does occur), fewer issues with color matching, reduces corrosion and is recyclable into new cars.
Lighter & cheaper, too, IIRC. All good reasons to do it.;) And AIUI, they can be bonded with epoxies, which reduces noise (IIRC) or makes the car feel tighter.:cool:
TheMann said:
This new engine isn't the GM 60-degree engine of OTL, it's a completely new aluminum-block-and-heads four-cam 24-valve V6 design, using a tuned intake manifold and close-port fuel injection and bears no similarity to the OTL unit. In 2.8-liter form, its enormously oversquare and revs quickly.
That explains it. Thx. That also makes the J-bodies even cooler.:cool::cool:
TheMann said:
I did know about the ability to wedge a small-block into an L-body car, but the real issue with doing that is handling. The L-body cars of this world are massively stiffer cars than OTL, but there would be three major problems with V8 L-bodies - first is handling, the second is transmission durability (The TH125 has nothing like the ability to handle V8 engines, and the 4T60 is iffy for it) and the third is overheating. The turbocharged Buick 231 has the second and third problems as well only worse, because the Buick Turbo V6 was a powerful unit even at middle boost levels (it made upwards of 350 ft-lbs in GNX duty), was an iron-block engine with a big turbo that on most cars was not entirely heat-shielded and it tended to run rather hotter than most other GM cars of the time.

What I had in mind for these was that TTL's TH125 and Getrag F35 gearboxes are rather tougher than OTL, allowing for the greater beans of the cars involved to be used to full effect without concerns over broken transmissions. The new 'Future One' V6 first introduced on the A-body and some J-body cars is a sign of what is to come, and the 'Future Two' engines that are first put to work in the Cadillac Allante and Chevrolet Camaro SS are designed alongside even-beefier versions of these gearboxes. Such is the power output of these engines that they use limited-slip differentials and equal-length driveshafts to avoid torque steer.
IDK if handling is compromised, but I wouldn't think the front-end weight was outrageously increased. (Given more emphasis on handling TTL, maybe...)

Durability, I think of the V8 Cads with the same transaxle (which is a TH125, IIRC) & ask why Cad can do it but Chevy couldn't.:confused: Ditto the 231 turbo. As for GNX tune, you're right, that might be pushing too far--unless (until?) GM can develop a "HD" version behind it. I'm thinking a less radical version. If you've made them stronger still, I'm not seeing an issue.

Heat, you're entirely right.

That said, with a 24v V6 stock, I'd sooner just step on it harder & forget the iron block & turbo anyhow...:cool: I do still want a chance at an aluminum 32v option for the Beretta/Corsica & the A-body, tho.:p (And the AWD option...:p)
 
I'm not sure what to do about the Trans Sport concept. It's gorgeous but not really very practical, particularly the deeply-curved glass and gullwing doors. That said, its styling is very neat, and I'm definitely gonna have to jack the six-bucket-seat interior of it, if for no other reason than the fact that the Espace has a similar interior, and bench seats may not be the best solution for these vans. I may just have to go with the dustbuster, though perhaps with the concept car's nose.



Market saturation, more than anything. They already have three J-bodies, is five really necessary? Besides, I got some cool stuff coming for both Buick and Oldsmobile. ;)



That one's coming up pretty soon.



AMC hasn't been involved in factory NASCAR racing since 1967. They don't find it to be a particularly attractive marketing tool. Renault's involvement with AMC comes just as Formula One grows in popularity in North America, and since ITTL Formula One ends up divided into two series in 1980 to 1982, both sides of the F1 civil war find themselves desperate to secure the American market. Combine that with American world champs in 1977 (A.J. Foyt) and 1978 (Mario Andretti), both driving cars powered by Ford engines and running on Goodyear tires, and you see that indeed AMC's efforts may be better spent in F1, Indycars, North American F3 (which replaces Formula Atlantic in 1981) and IMSA, as well as rallying (Spirit chassis + SX/4 all-wheel-drive + big-boost turbocharged Renault power = one stupid-fast Group B challenger) and eventually touring cars.



OTL's base, but with better suspension tuning, disc brakes with ABS, AMC I-4 engines, five-speed manual and four-speed automatic transmissions and better assembly quality. Not quite the GM J-bodies, but equal with the Chrysler K-cars and perhaps a little superior to the Ford Escort and Sierra. Very good cars, though, and unlike the J-Body and K-cars, available in sedan and five-door hatchback form.



You are correct.



They have plenty of advantages - less susceptible to damage (and harder to spot damage if it does occur), fewer issues with color matching, reduces corrosion and is recyclable into new cars.



The Cimarron shares the platform and engines and that's about it - they aren't even made on the same production lines. (Cimarrons are made in Lansing while other J-body cars are made at South Gate, Oshawa, Baltimore and Fairfax.) The Cimarron's interior is entirely unique to it, and it uses its own suspension and brake setups.



This new engine isn't the GM 60-degree engine of OTL, it's a completely new aluminum-block-and-heads four-cam 24-valve V6 design, using a tuned intake manifold and close-port fuel injection and bears no similarity to the OTL unit. In 2.8-liter form, its enormously oversquare and revs quickly.



I did know about the ability to wedge a small-block into an L-body car, but the real issue with doing that is handling. The L-body cars of this world are massively stiffer cars than OTL, but there would be three major problems with V8 L-bodies - first is handling, the second is transmission durability (The TH125 has nothing like the ability to handle V8 engines, and the 4T60 is iffy for it) and the third is overheating. The turbocharged Buick 231 has the second and third problems as well only worse, because the Buick Turbo V6 was a powerful unit even at middle boost levels (it made upwards of 350 ft-lbs in GNX duty), was an iron-block engine with a big turbo that on most cars was not entirely heat-shielded and it tended to run rather hotter than most other GM cars of the time.

What I had in mind for these was that TTL's TH125 and Getrag F35 gearboxes are rather tougher than OTL, allowing for the greater beans of the cars involved to be used to full effect without concerns over broken transmissions. The new 'Future One' V6 first introduced on the A-body and some J-body cars is a sign of what is to come, and the 'Future Two' engines that are first put to work in the Cadillac Allante and Chevrolet Camaro SS are designed alongside even-beefier versions of these gearboxes. Such is the power output of these engines that they use limited-slip differentials and equal-length driveshafts to avoid torque steer.

Ford was able to use the Pinto in OTL to make the Mustang II the 302 cu in (4.9 L) Windsor V8. So I would think a small block might go into the Cimarron.
 
fscott said:
Ford was able to use the Pinto in OTL to make the Mustang II the 302 cu in (4.9 L) Windsor V8. So I would think a small block might go into the Cimarron.
I'd guess even with the wider 24v TTL, the 90deg SB would be too wide... For the A- & L-body, it should fit.
 
Part 6 - New People, New Times and New Cars

With the blockbuster launches of 1981, and the strikes of 1981-82 having stunned America and having had an effect on the nation's politics, the 1980s headed into a decadent time.

For starters, the strikes in 1981 ended with the unions getting their way and the professional air traffic controllers getting re-hired, a backdown that was hugely embarrassing for President Reagan - but one which showed that he and the Democrats could work together. Having succeeded at stopping what they viewed as an unjust firing, the unions headed out against other injustices, but found a surprise waiting for them which was due to be their minefield, namely that Walter Reuther's statements in the late 1970s that labor and management could find a way to coexist were starting to come true.

A new generation of workers was entering the workplace in America, the baby boomers moving into positions of power and influence. They came in having a strong desire to better themselves, but this generation was also smart enough to see that they needed to all be better off if they themselves were to benefit. This led to the confidence of the times being matched in aggressive actions to expand both America's wealth and the prosperity of its working classes, figuring that if the working people prospered than so would the management classes. These people were legion in Detroit by the middle of the 1980s, and while the men on top were still heavily suspicious of the UAW's motives and the UAW was suspicious of the company and its bargainers, the middle levels of management were soon full of those who saw the UAW as a potential asset. This led to many actions by all of the makers to improve the quality of work life for the employees.

"When I first walked into River Rouge (the famed Ford assembly plant in Dearborn, Michigan), I went to see one of the plant managers, wanting to tell him about the Quality of Job One and Our Company is Our People plans. I found him in the middle of the plant screaming at an employee over having to use the bathroom. The man looked ill to me, and yet this man wasn't even thinking of it. I demanded he stop yelling at him, to which he turned to me and said 'another blankety-blank accountant'. I put my hand on the guy's shoulder and said 'son, you know why we need programs to make our people's lives better? That. Right there.' I could see he was sick, and I told him to go home. When the plant manager protested, he said 'are you serious?' to which I answered 'well, I don't know whether you take it seriously, but as far as I can tell, I'm serious.' That went around Rouge in about a New York Minute, and I never had trouble there again." -- Former President of Ford Motor Company, Donald Petersen, speaking in The American Auto Factory, 2006

"Guys were hearing about the new plants at Bowling Green and Tacoma and the rebuilt plants at Baltimore and South Gate and Janesville and asking 'why can't we get all of that stuff?' When I asked GM management about that in 1982, I was given an answer 'We haven't gotten to all of the plants, yet.' I responded to that by asking 'so, all of GM's plants are gonna get all of that?' I must admit I was stunned when the guys at GM said 'Yes.' I didn't think they were willing to spend the money. But by the end of the eighties, they had kept their word. I hated to admit it, but it was true. The guys were working in better plants, and they made better cars as a result. We went into the eighties wanting to hate on another. By the end of the eighties, they were listening to us for real. By the end of the nineties, they were raising up ideas to help us. It was stunning to me, but I had to re-evaluate everything I had ever thought about Detroit." -- Former UAW President Douglas Fraser, In an Interview with the Detroit Free Press, May 2004

"If the 1970s had been the low point in the relationship between the UAW and the Big Four, then the 1980s were where their ultimate victory began to become a reality. The UAW had been trying to make themselves heard in the management of the company since the sit-down strikes in Flint and the strikes of the post-war years, but the responses had always been bribery. But Romney and Reuther and the concessions the UAW made to keep Chrysler alive and Chrysler's subsequent commitments to those who lost their jobs as a result of its reorganization was a sign of what was to come, but it was not the destruction of the unions as many feared....but rather it was the start of where unions began to take an active interest in the companies that employed them, and that more or less began the end of the adversarial bargaining that had dominated American labor's relations with the corporate leaders they worked with. It took a while for everyone to get the message, but eventually they did, and everyone benefitted from it." -- Casey Rutledge, Rivers of Steel, 2015

The result of this 1980s push was political changes, too - so much so that when Fraser began his push to get universal health care in the United States in 1983, he had little trouble getting it, and his vocal opposition to the bitter Arizona Copper Mine strikes of 1983 gave much support to the miners, to the point that the copper miners got most of what they wanted and would end up heading back to work. Labor's strikes had raised their concerns, and the decisions of the American managerial class in the 1980s meant that it would not be a long time before things changed in America. The United States in the 1980s moved to a much more confrontational position with the Soviet Union and states they disagreed with, and while Ronald Reagan's loss to Ted Kennedy and Henry M. Jackson in the 1984 Presidential election changed a great many things, it did not change the strong-arm foreign policy and it did not change major economic policies. It did, however, have a huge change for the automakers in 1986, when President Kennedy passed the "Advancement of American Health Care Act" in May 1986, which opened up the Medicare Program to those who wished to buy in and enacted substantial legislation to control the industry to ensure affordable healthcare for all Americans - and the ability to buy into Medicare made sure that the insurance companies paid attention.

To nobody's surprise, being both huge industries that were heavily unionized, the American automakers were among the first one to feel the changes - and it was a godsend. All of the Detroit makers by then were seeing the old guard of the post-war era retire in numbers, and the reduction in health care costs for them saved them billions in health care costs. Chrysler's survival had in large part come from the UAW being willing to deal with Chrysler, and the middle management made sure that the automakers paid back the guys who had given up concessions to help keep the business alive - for example, when Chrysler had started selling the Peugeot 205 in North America, Chrysler reactivated its long-mothballed plant in Hamtramck, Michigan, to make it in North America - much to Peugeot's initial unhappiness, who wanted its plants in France to supply the cars. Despite the acrimonious relationship between GM President Roger Smith and Fraser, particularly after Smith and many of his board of directors voted themselves multi-million-dollar bonuses hours after extracting billions in wage concessions from the UAW (An act that ultimately saw Smith fired), after the rocky 1973-81 period, labor peace was the rule in Detroit, and the vehicles they built improved steadily in quality from an already good standard. Douglas Fraser's appointment to Chrysler's board in 1979 was a sign of the future, as when Fraser retired from the UAW in 1984 his successor, Owen Bieber, was appointed to fill his seat, and Bieber's number-two, Raymond Majerus, was appointed to the board at American Motors in 1985. (When Majerus died of a heart attack in December 1987, his protege, Devon Mitchell, took over Majerus' seat on the board at AMC, appointed at the same time as famed car dealer Ivan Vassall Sr, giving AMC two black board members and a bit of a news event at the time.) After Henry Ford II's retirement from Ford in 1980, Philip Caldwell (who had been working for Ford since 1953) succeeded him, and Caldwell and his successor, Donald Petersen, were instrumental in the company's huge shift in labor relations in the 1980s.

In the middle of this, the imports began setting up in North America. Nissan began operations in Smyrna, Tennessee, in 1982, followed a year later by Honda in Marysville, Ohio and in 1984 by Volkswagen in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania. It was something of a surprise to the Japanese that the plants in the United States had workers that were just as diligent as their Japanese counterparts, and even more to their surprise, they were rather more co-operative. The UAW attempted to unionize both Japanese facilities and failed, though they succeeded in unionizing the Volkswagen plant in Pennsylvania in 1985 - with Volkswagen, whose German boards have half labor representation, openly approving of the UAW's efforts. Honda by the 1990s would go so far as to import cars into Japan from the United States for a while.

The Detroit automakers rolled through the 1980s developing better and better designs. General Motors' Quad-Four engine design spawned a second new engine, the Future One Engine, a V6 engine family of 2.8 to 4.4 liters that would be used in a variety of applications from mid-sized sedans to pickup trucks, with the Power-Six debuting on the Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000 and Buick Regal in 1984, as the new A-bodies complemented the successful J-body cars of three years earlier. The following year, GM's Future One . The engine was also soon used in a variety of cars from all GM divisions, as well as the Chevrolet S-10/GMC Sonoma pickups and the Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari minivans. The A-bodies themselves were quality units, much better than the X-bodies, and while the Celebrity was meant as a fairly conventional mid-sized sedan, the Pontiac 6000 was meant as a fun car to rival cars like the BMW 3-Series and the Buick Regal was meant as middle-level luxury car. It did these jobs fairly well, with the 6000 having a 4.0-liter version of the Future One engine and a Getrag-built six-speed manual transmission as standard equipment, which made the 6000 a genuinely quick car. The design of the Future One led to the 'Future Two' V8, which debuted in 4.8-liter form in the 1986 Cadillac Allante, which included all of the 'Northstar System' chassis technologies, which was quite a long list - load-leveling suspension using magnetorheological shock absorbers and progressive-rate springs, traction and stability control, anti-lock brakes and limited-slip differentials, with road-sensing four-wheel-drive being an option that roughly three out of five Allantes came with. Also new to the Allante was the new 5L80 five-speed automatic transmission. Most of these technologies would soon spread to lots of other GM cars. The Future series engines all also included provisions for the displacement on demand technology which GM had first introduced in 1981 - the Cadillac V8-6-4 proved to be an engineering challenge not due to mechanicals, but due to electronics - a problem solved by an unlikely source in Commodore Computers, who developed a special ECU for the system to fit to Cadillac cars. The end result was that provided the engine was maintained properly, the V8-6-4 with its Commodore ECUs was nearly bulletproof. Commodore and Hughes Aerospace both worked for GM extensively, and much of Commodore's technology was bought outright by GM after the company went bankrupt in 1994.

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A 1988 Cadillac Allante

"The V8-6-4 was designed to make a great big engine meet modern fuel efficiency standards, because Cadillac really didn't want to lose its own V8 engine after all it had been for so long. So they started making the V8-6-4. But as soon as the guys on West Grand Boulevard found out what we were up to, they demanded to know why, and once they saw where we were at and the problems we had, Pete [Estes] himself came to see us and asked if other engines could use this. When I told him that I didn't see why they couldn't, he immediately said 'Do what you gotta do to make it work, and we'll sell it.' I didn't think Pete was that kinda guy, but it wasn't long later that I saw what the engineers were doing for the J-bodies and I understood." -- Ed Kennard, Cadillac's General Manager during the development of the V8-6-4, 1994

Ford went even further than GM did in terms of design. Having reeled some from the departure of Hank the Deuce and the fact that many of its boxy design cars of the late 1970s and early 1980s were not strong performers in the marketplace, Ford's design department took the aero design theme to extremes in the 1980s, as well as introducing many new technologies of their own - one particularly notable example was that most 1983 to 1986 Ford Escorts came with the turbocharged 1.6-liter version of the Ford CVH four-cylinder engine, as the turbocharged CVH proved to be smoother-running and more reliable than the original CVH because of lower compression and the turbo counteracting the engine's harmonic imbalance. (While this did concern some customers, turbocharged CVH engines proved to be stout, reliable units.) The Escort's initial styling differences with its European counterparts did prove to be an issue, as many customers were found to find the smoother European-styled car better looking. Recognizing this and aware of GM's new J-body, Ford began selling the Sierra in North America in the summer of 1982, and they went for big money with the Taurus, introduced in 1985.

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A 1988 Ford Taurus SHO

The Taurus was a gamble of no small proportions, and Ford boss Caldwell had no difficulty admitting that he had staked virtually everything on the Taurus, first seen in Super Bowl advertisements in January 1985 and formally launched to more than a little fanfare at MGM Soundstage's Studio 85 (where Gond With The Wind had been filmed) in March of that year. Dubbed the "Car of the Future" in press releases, the Taurus was meant to be an executive car in Europe and a strong mid-sized contender in North America, and its 'aero-style' design, similar in language to the Escort, Sierra and Thunderbird, was a handsome machine. Designed to handle more like a sports car, Ford touted that they had tuned the suspension of the Taurus in Germany and America, and boasted of many high-speed test runs to see how the car handled at high speeds. Their touting was very proud, but it didn't take long to see why they were cocky. The Taurus used a variety of powerful engines, the king of which was the Taurus SHO's supercharged 3.0-liter V6, designed and built by Yamaha, capable of making 285 horsepower. The Taurus included both a high-quality and luxurious interior, with some neat options available, including one of the first CD players in a car, cellular phone, power seats with power-adjusted lumbar and side support, a high-tech digital dash (an option that most Taurus had) and even an all-glass roof for sedan models, the last an expensive option but one which a fair number of cars had. A radical design, the Taurus was a big gamble for Ford - and one that most at GM and Chrysler figured would fail in favor of more conventional medium-sized sedans.

They would be disappointed, as the Taurus would go on to be a fair success in Europe but a massive one in America. Ford's Vice-President at the time, Donald Petersen, boasted of how he had left his chaffeur-driven Lincoln at home and bought a loaded Taurus to drive himself to work every day. It was soon also frequently used by American embassies in Europe, even some used as staff cars for American armed forces around the world. Indeed the Taurus' replacement of the aging Grenada in Europe proved to be a godsend for the company's lineup there, as the Grenada had by that time largely been limited to production in Germany, which due to the rising value of the German Deutschemark at the time was disproportionally expensive. The Taurus, when combined with the Fiesta, Escort and Sierra, was all the evidence Ford needed that its future lay in the 'Aero-style' cars.

"One can't be mad at the gamble. Ford decided to step up to the future, and boy did they hit a home run. The Taurus is not merely a good car like the Escort and Sierra, it is a great car. It really is not just a pretty face, it is a massive cut above the competition, a luxury car at a mid-sized price, a machine that is so impressive it defies conventional wisdom. American cars have never better than this, and if this is the future, we love it." -- Motor Trend, stating the rationale for the Taurus being their car of the year for 1986

"Perhaps the scariest moment for all of us on 'Team Taurus' was the visit in the spring of '84 when Hank the Deuce came to pay a visit. He had retired from Ford by that time, of course, but nobody at Ford ignored him when he listened, period....He had always been a more traditionalist guy when it came to car styling, so when we showed him the Taurus I think all of us who were there had butterflies in the stomach. But Henry just walked into the studio, eyeballed the Taurus sedan and wagon we had readied for him, and smiled broadly. He just breathed deeply and walked around them, a great huge grin growing on his face the more he looked. He had finally walked around the sedan and came back to me, his hand out. He shook my hand with a huge smile on his face, and said to me 'If that's the Ford of the future, my family's company is in good hands.' That didn't just seal that the Taurus was gonna be sold, it also meant that I had designed something that everyone would be talking about for a long time to come. Because if I could get Henry to love it, I don't think there was anybody at Ford who wouldn't." -- Jack Telnack, talking about the Taurus to Motor Trend's 'Legends of Detroit' issue, 2011

GM had a surprise of its own, but in a totally different market, and one which had been pretty lonely for a long time - small sports cars.

The market dominated for decades by the British had effectively been abandoned by them. British Leyland's financial problems in the 1970s and the abysmal build quality of many of the cars had contributed to them becoming rare pieces by the end of that decade, with the Triumph TR7/TR8 departing the American market in 1979 and the MG MGB in 1980. But as the number of people wanting a good small sports car grew in the 1980s, they found a handful of good choices, the most common of which was the Alfa Romeo Spyder. But with Chrysler's sale of the Matra Murena showed that the market was real, and in 1984, both General Motors and Toyota jumped in it with both feet, bringing out the Pontiac Fiero and Toyota MR2. The Fiero, powered by the Quad-Four engine, was the larger and quicker of the two, though they were pretty much even on handling. Both cars were fantastic drivers, and it didn't take many drives in either the 185-horsepower, 30-mpg Fiero or the 125-horsepower, 34-mpg MR2 to win over a convert to the love of driving. Compared to the Murena, the Fiero and MR2 were both quicker, though the Murena was a hoot to drive as well and the looks were totally a matter of taste. And to nobody's surprise, the three spent the 1980s as rivals - and big ones. All three were excellent commuter cars when they weren't out driving fast, and many of the people who bought them would say that they would use these cars to drive to work and do everyday errands that didn't need more than two seats, as well as having great fun when the opportunity presented itself. The Fiero was an instant score for GM, despite some niggling troubles with electrical components and potential engine fires, the Fiero sold extremely well, and GM could loudly say they had a car that nobody else in Detroit had any answer to and not be lying.

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A 1985 Pontiac Fiero Formula

The Fiero would come in the middle of Pontiac's move to become the performance car division of General Motors, and it was a fitting addition to it. The Fiero and MR2 would ultimately go on to be arch-rivals throughout their respective existences, but the 1980s variants are considered to be more pure performance cars than the second-generation versions (this is also widely felt about the MR2 as well), but both cars would see their third-generation versions (built starting in 1999 for the MR2, 2000 for the Fiero) returning to their previous status as performance cars for the masses.

British Leyland's massive problems proved to be an opprtunity for one of America's most famous racing car drivers in Dan Gurney. Having turned his All American Racers team into an equal parts race team and engineering consultancy much in the line of the famed Lotus company in Britain (and having been involved in pretty much every AMC car from the 1967 Javelin onwards), Gurney got an opportunity in 1981 by the not-at-all-hidden desire by the new British government headed by Margaret Thatcher's desire to sell off many portions of British Leyland, which had never turned a profit, and when they started looking to break it up into pieces (despite BL at the time having a promising hookup with Honda underway), Gurney convinced lifelong friend Jim Clark and famed auto dealer Roger Penske to get involved with a plan to buy the pieces of the failing British Leyland and turn it into a new company. Thatcher's government was surprised by this, but Gurney and his partners were serious - and Honda, who wanted desperately for the BL hookup to work in order to improve their position in Europe, was also in favor - and the Falklands War with Argentina in 1982 gave Gurney and his partners time to get the details settled. In November 1982, Gurney presented a plan where he would form a new company known as Gurney Austin Rover, comprising the Austin, Rover, Triumph, Jaguar and Land Rover divisions. Gurney's proposal became a topic of massive political debate during the 1983 British elections, which ended in a decisive victory for Thatcher, and in April 1984, Gurney Austin Rover came into existence.

It didn't take long for the Anglo-American firm to begin making a name for itself. Gurney himself led a deep management team that included many from both sides of the Atlantic, but the early times were extraordinarily difficult. Sir Michael Edwardes' time at BL hadn't really helped matters, as his massive cuts to the workforce and emptying out of divisions was of no help to the new firm. The reintroduction of the Mini to many markets in the 1980s did end up being a help - GAR could, and did, charge a premium price for it in many markets - and the programs with Honda led to many Honda engines being used in BL products. After GAR sold off Jaguar to Ford in 1985 - which in the middle of the coal miners' strike and at a time where huge labor unrest was shaking Britain, caused an uproar - GAR moved Austin into the lower-to-middle end car role, with Rovers being more luxurious cars and Triumph being a sporty car maker, with the edge of this being the introduction of the TS2 (Triumph-Saab) V8 in 1987 in the Saab 9000, with the same engine going into the new Triumph Renown in 1989. The company's list of new cars in the 1980s was impressive (many of these being improved versions of early 1980s BL designs), reviving Triumph as a British BMW and developing the Austin Metro into something rather better over time. By 1990, Gurney Austin Rover was making money and growing its market share in many parts of the world, and the firm was by then also assembling Honda vehicles for European markets. GAR was happy to help Honda in many cases as well - the firm was instrumental in helping the Japanese company stave off a takeover attempt by Mitsubishi in 1992, and the TS2 V8 began to be used in higher-end Honda products starting in 1991 NSX sports car - and one result of this was that GAR and Honda by the 1990s repeatedly collaborated on design and engineering efforts for smaller cars. The MG brand returned with the 1991 MGF, the first mid-engined car from the company which was an immediate rival to the growing numbers of small sports cars meant for enthusiasts.

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The 1988 Rover R16 concept, which would almost unchanged become the 1990 Rover P7

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The 1991 MG MGF sports car

"Gurney Austin Rover was nothing if not one of the biggest gambles in automotive history. We were supposed to believe that no matter how brilliant Dan Gurney and Jim Clark and Kevin Russman and Roger Penske and Roy Axe and Michael Edwardes and Graham Day unquestionably are, they were going to take on the most mismanaged shithouse of a company in automotive history, a firm where the management was so bad that a damned communist was able to have more power over the company than its management and where they averaged five or six work stoppages a week at one point, out of the hands of a government dominated by hard-shelled capitalists and then turn it into a successful automaker? The thought was insane. But then again, this was Dan Gurney here, he tends to make the impossible possible when it comes to cars....GAR reset itself remarkably quickly, got tons of help from Honda and outside design houses as well as Gurney's own crew and began to turn the firm into a car for enthusiasts. They could do things faster than anybody figured was possible, but this company was above all else run by enthusiasts, and it showed. Austin may have eventually shrank down from the intense competition for small cars, but the Mini, Rover, Triumph and Land Rover never did, and it shows today." -- Peter DeLorenzo on Gurney Austin Rover on his AutoExtremist blog, talking during the company's 30th anniversary in 2014

"I was initially absolutely stunned at it. Genuinely shocked. British Leyland was a lumbering behemoth, a giant beast of a company with development problems, internal rivalries all over the place, a militant workforce and faced with a market and government that were at best ambivalent or at worst actively malignant. But he was serious, all of the others were serious, and I knew well as everyone that he was in for a ride....I went back there because by the time I did, Gurney had sold Jaguar to fund the redevelopment of everything else, and he had done what he had set out to do there. They were back racing, the workforce had members on the board and was getting a chunk of the profits, plants had been re-opened, Honda was wanting to use the Triumph-Saab V8 and was offering its small engines in return, and they had big plans for everything from people carriers to luxury limousines to supercars. But what got me most was when I went back to see him, his first question to me was 'What can you do for the company, because I don't want anybody here who doesn't have ideas of their own.' Gurney knew I had run the firm in the past, so I knew what he was asking me about was what could I do to make the cars sell better. That told me much, and it was much that I liked." -- Sir Michael Edwardes, on why he returned to Gurney Austin Rover in 1988

The Renault-AMC relationship was fully and completely consecreated by the events of 1986-87. On November 19, 1986, Renault's director Georges Besse, AMC's director Cameron Robertson and AMC's fast-rising star manager Mitt Romney were all shot by Action Directe gunmen as they emerged from a meeting at a restaurant in Paris. Romney was not seriously wounded, but Robertson was left in a wheelchair as a result and Besse died of his wounds despite the best efforts of a number of others, including Romney himself. Within a month, Besse's successor, Raymond Levy, began plans for Renault to divest itself of AMC - a fact that shocked AMC's managers and convinced them to make a last-ditch effort to convince Renault to stay involved. On April 5, 1987, Romney led a delegation to Paris (including design boss Richard Teague, chief engineer Kelly Sinclair and chief powertrain engineer David Johnston) with multiple books of drawings, designs and future operations plans, including detailed financials of what AMC was up to, hoping to convince Levy to continue Besse's plans - indeed, Romney is said to have said to Besse that "If I'm gonna get shot, I'm gonna make sure the people shot me don't get shit from me" - and Romney made it clear that if Renault backed out, AMC's management would make a play to ally with somebody else. Somewhat surprised of the depth of the plans, Levy two days led Romney and his delegation to meet French President Francois Mitterand, to whom he made the same presentations and points, pointing out that Renault had already sank billions of francs into AMC, and that bailing out now would make Renault's involvement to this point largely pointless. Mitterrand agreed. But Romney and the others had another card to play - that being a press presentation to the media in France that AMC would seek to assemble Jeeps in France, stating that AMC would back up Renault's racing programs and offering to repurpose closed Renault facilities for AMC's other heavy industrial facilities. Romney further stunned the Parisian media by conducting his press conference and interviews in excellent French.

Levy ultimately did backpedal on the divestment of AMC, and true to form renault began assembling Jeep Cherokee SUVs and Comanche pickup trucks in France in 1988. Romney's actions paid off for him as well - he was appointed the co-chairman of the AMC board in March 1988, and joined the board at Renault in January 1989. Robertson, despite being left in a wheelchair from the shooting, made a point of being in the courtroom during the trial of the people who had shot him, Romney and Besse, and when asked whether he feared Action-Directe killing him he brushed it off "If I give up what I was wanting to do, they've won. And I am not gonna be beaten that easily." True to form, AMC's engineers were instrumental in the develop of the Renault Clio (which launched in 1989), Megane (launched in 1991) and Twingo (1992), all of which went to be sales successes for the company, while the introduction of the new AMC Ambassador in 1990 (OTL's Eagle Premier), along with the new-for-1991 fifth-generation Javelin, Medallion, Spirit and the Jeep lineup (which included the new-for-1992 Grand Cherokee SUV) made AMC plenty of profits. The company proved good to its word on the racing support as well - Renault's Indycar program was taken over by AMC in 1990, and many Renault-powered Formula One cars in the 1990s carried AMC sponsorship decals, and the company's finances helped get Al Unser Jr. signed on at Williams Grand Prix in 1993. The new engines developed by both firms in the early 1990s for both of their models proved to be excellent units, and Packard's huge 1980s re-do of their lineup proved to be both a sales hit and something of a cash cow for the company.

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A 1993 Renault Clio Williams 1

None of this was any benefit to Japan's automakers and their decades-long attempts to make conquests in the American car market. In the semi-autobiographical book Made In Japan, Sony's founder and chairman Akio Morita commented in quite a lot of depth about how Japanese culture and their way of thinking, a book that seemed to be about Japan's success in export fields. It drew a response from Lee Iacocca and Mitt Romney, the book Talking Straight, where Romney and Iacocca pointed out that one of the people most influential with Japan's modern auto industry was an American, W. Edwards Deming, who had taught the Japanese much - and many of those lessons had been absorbed in Detroit, too. It was also pointed out that Japan was aggressive in sales tactics and had over the years built extensive trade barriers to its own lucrative domestic markets. Despite the comments, Talking Straight refused to bash Japan in general.

"The Japanese turned a nation destroyed by war into an economic powerhouse in a generation, as much as their tactics played a role in that, if they had not produced excellent products, they would have never been able to take off to such a degree as they have. They are worthy of respect. But one of the advantages of today's modern world is that they taught us here in Detroit many lessons, and we now know about all of the flaws we had once been guilty of. And now, we produce products to as great if not a greater quality than theirs, and we have no issue with them selling cars in America, quite the contrary. Lee said "If you find a better car, buy it." Mitt said "We want customers to make great choices, because we believe in what we build." That's how American automakers are now, and Japan had better be prepared for it, because the American worker is the equal of any on Earth, and we're proving it now." -- Lee Iacocca, Mitt Romney and Sonny Kleinfeld, Talking Straight, 1988

By the middle of the 1980s, other new tech was rolling into Detroit with a vengeance. Even beyond the development of fuel injection and modern engines, some other new and interest ideas came out in the 1980s, and this was hardly limited to one automaker. While most of the American makers began using fuel injection in the 1960s and the use of Bosch fuel injection was common in the 1970s, by the 1980s they all had their own systems - and Chrysler and Peugeot went a step further in the late 1980s with high-pressure direct-injection for gasoline engines, a technology which began to bear fruit in the early 1990s. The cylinder-deactivation idea from GM was soon also a topic of discussion in the rest of Detroit and soon the world, as while it had little effect on stop-start city driving, in the larger and heavier Cadillac models it had a substantial difference in highway fuel efficiency. Chrysler, by contast, hooked up substantially with Peugeot and Cummins in the development of diesel engines for cars and light trucks, figuring that they could better GM's fuel efficiency claims. All of the automakers were able to clear the CAFE fuel economy legislation - GM cleared it by a little, Ford and Chrysler by some and AMC by a lot - but by 1985 the idea of fuel economy was one which lots of consumers paid attention to, and along with the continuing demand for mid-sized and larger cars and the developing truck and SUV trends, it meant that if Detroit was not give an opening to the imports, they needed to be on the R&D ball pretty much all the time.

The R&D ball didn't stop the companies from having fun cars built. The fourth-generation Corvette, released in 1984, was an engineering marvel, using a mostly-aluminum backbone chassis and a steel-alloy driver cell, as well as using a Kevlar hood and door skins to reduce weight. The car also came with GM's revolutionary Muncie M28T transaxle, a six-speed transaxle mounted at the back of the car, designed to improve weight distribution and thus handling, as well as one of the first fully-adjustable traction control systems ever sold in a car. The Cadillac Allante and Packard Evolution big roadsters, introduced in 1986 and 1988 respectively, were both technological marvels - the Allante's famed 'Northstar System' chassis and four-cam, 40-valve V8 engine matched up with the Evolution, which used more conventional suspension and aluminum bodywork, but used a folding metal hardtop and made available a big V12 engine. The Pontiac Fiero and the long list of sporty versions of everyday cars proved that nearly everyone could have fun, and both Chrysler and AMC made a lot of money on the Dodge Scout and Jeep Renegade off-roaders, and with good American cars available at practically all levels of the car market, it wasn't hard to see why many import makers at times struggled to get a real foothold in the American market.

These changes, combined with the growth in the economy of this period, led to much of the 1980s being called "the decadent times". Strong economic growth in much of the Western World helped with this, and it was a time where it also became clear where the world's lines were drawn. Japan's economy grew into an immense bubble in the 1980s, and while the trouble that this caused would become very clear later on, it was a world that allowed Japanese companies to jump into America in a big way, and it showed in the actions of the Japanese automakers and industrialists, who bought up huge amounts of American real-estate and industrial assets, which gave them move influence in America but also had the effect of causing problems for them later on. It also led to American automakers starting sales in Japan, though that country's level of red-tape and protectionism at the time drove the Detroit makers nuts. Still, for higher-priced cars in the bubble economy, it was worth it in a great many cases. Japan's rise into the leagues of world powers in economic terms had been a long time in coming, but by the 1980s it was very real, and it would show in the future....
 
Very, very, interesting. Of course, it still leaves open what GM plans to do with Isuzu and Suzuki, likewise Ford with Mazda. ;) But I like it.
 
TheMann said:
Part 6 - New People, New Times and New Cars
Well done on another fine update.:)
TheMann said:
professional air traffic controllers getting re-hired
Bravo.:cool: (I'd ask about amateur ATCrs, but...:p)
TheMann said:
Ronald Reagan's loss to Ted Kennedy and Henry M. Jackson
Well done. (Tho you've butterflied away Carson's "Minnesota Mondale & the Party of Doom".:(:p)
TheMann said:
it did not change the strong-arm foreign policy
Nor would it. U.S. policy is constrained by geopolitics. Anybody who thinks changes would be radical doesn't understand the issue.
TheMann said:
President Kennedy passed the "Advancement of American Health Care Act" in May 1986
Quibble: Congress would pass it.;)

Bravo, however. You've substantially improved American competitiveness, & not just in the car business. (It's a continuing puzzle to me why Republicans oppose it.:confused:)

Does it also help control the rise in drug costs? Or is that ASB?:p
TheMann said:
In the middle of this, the imports began setting up in North America. Nissan began operations in Smyrna, Tennessee, in 1982, followed a year later by Honda in Marysville, Ohio and in 1984 by Volkswagen in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania. It was something of a surprise to the Japanese that the plants in the United
Any thoughts on the tax abatements given by states? Or the prospect for a Constitutional challenge, under Gibbons?
TheMann said:
Future One Engine, a V6 engine family of 2.8 to 4.4 liters that would be used in a variety of applications from mid-sized sedans to pickup trucks, with the Power-Six debuting on the Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000 and Buick Regal in 1984... the Chevrolet S-10/GMC Sonoma pickups and the Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari minivans.
While I still wish for a V8-powered A-body,:p I like this a lot. What are the chances for North America getting a four-door S-10?:cool:
TheMann said:
the 6000 having a 4.0-liter version of the Future One engine and a Getrag-built six-speed manual transmission as standard equipment, which made the 6000 a genuinely quick car.
:cool: So, what are the chances of the 6000's AWD being transplanted into the J-body?:cool: (Or for hot rodders being able to?;):cool::cool:)
TheMann said:
load-leveling suspension using magnetorheological shock absorbers and progressive-rate springs, traction and stability control, anti-lock brakes and limited-slip differentials, with road-sensing four-wheel-drive being an option that roughly three out of five Allantes came with. Also new to the Allante was the new 5L80 five-speed automatic transmission. Most of these technologies would soon spread to lots of other GM cars.
Lovely & quick.:cool::cool::cool: It's a nightmare for BMW & M-B.

Question, tho: aren't magnetorheological shocks a bit too sophisticated for the period? I confess, IDK.
TheMann said:
problem solved by an unlikely source in Commodore Computers
:cool: Nice touch. Does this save the computer side?
TheMann said:
The Taurus was a gamble of no small proportions
I recall the Taurus being a real shock at the time. With a heavier emphasis on racing TTL, I wonder why nobody caught on to the aero benefits before this.
TheMann said:
Taurus used a variety of powerful engines, the king of which was the Taurus SHO's supercharged 3.0-liter V6, designed and built by Yamaha, capable of making 285 horsepower.
:cool: IIRC, it was expensive to make, so it never got common. Still true TTL? (I'd guess not.)

Does the Taurus influence affect the 'stang's styling? Does the "boxy" '79-84 'stang get replaced sooner? Does the '84 get the SHO V6 instead of the SVO turbo?:cool::cool: Or both options?:cool::cool::cool:

With the impact of "aero-look" in mind, I presume the '85 T-bird still stuns NASCAR. Does it dominate as OTL, or does AMC meet the challenge? Does AMC still stay out?:( (I wouldn't be unhappy about "Million Dollar Bill" kicking some butt, but NASCAR tampering...:mad:)
TheMann said:
Dan Gurney. Having turned his All American Racers team into an equal parts race team and engineering consultancy much in the line of the famed Lotus company in Britain (and having been involved in pretty much every AMC car from the 1967 Javelin onwards), Gurney got an opportunity in 1981 by the not-at-all-hidden desire by the new British government headed by Margaret Thatcher's desire to sell off many portions of British Leyland
A very interesting turn of events indeed.:cool:

Butterflies from a POD dating so far back makes me wonder if Thatcher would still win...
TheMann said:
Triumph-Saab V8
I have no objection, but this feels very strange to me...
TheMann said:
TS2 V8 began to be used in higher-end Honda products starting in 1991 NSX sports car
This feels even stranger...:eek:
TheMann said:
the 1991 MGF, the first mid-engined car from the company
:eek: A mid-engined MG??:eek: That's almost as heretical as a hardtop Moggie!:eek::p

That P-7 is a fine-looking machine, tho.:cool:


Tell me the new Mini, when it happens, isn't just another compact, like BMW's was.:rolleyes: (If you can manage something like a 2.2L V8, awd, & other goodies...:cool::cool::cool::cool:{:p})
TheMann said:
AMC Ambassador in 1990 (OTL's Eagle Premier), along with the new-for-1991 fifth-generation Javelin
Good on you for reviving the name.:cool: (Not a particular fan of it, just liking a re-use, akin the Roadmaster.)

Thoughts about what the newest Jav looks like? Somehow, I'm thinking of the '91 Firebird (minus pop-ups, please!).

(Hmm...a black Targa Jav driven by Michael Knight?;))
TheMann said:
the CAFE fuel economy legislation
Considering the technical improvements, I have to ask why CAFE ever passes in the first place. It's little more than a subsidy for production of cars people don't want, & a subsidy for UAW... (Or so C&D suggests.)
TheMann said:
Cadillac Allante and Packard Evolution big roadsters, introduced in 1986 and 1988 respectively, were both technological marvels - the Allante's famed 'Northstar System' chassis and four-cam, 40-valve V8 engine matched up with the Evolution, which used more conventional suspension and aluminum bodywork, but used a folding metal hardtop and made available a big V12 engine.
Bravo.:cool::cool: Especially for the factory V12.:cool::cool: (Folding metal hardtop?:confused: I thought that was nutty in 1957...:rolleyes:)

As for styling on the Evo, I'm thinking something like the Ferrari 412. (What would that look like with Bertone styling, instead?;))
 
Very, very, interesting. Of course, it still leaves open what GM plans to do with Isuzu and Suzuki, likewise Ford with Mazda. ;) But I like it.

The relationship between GM and Isuzu and Suzuki is pretty slim right now, because Isuzu so far is staying in the car business (I'm not sure whether they'll bail out of it yet) and Suzuki largely is going as OTL. Ford and Mazda hasn't seen much action yet.
 
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