Starship Troopers movie=AH

[Marklin]

While i was looking through wikipedia today, i came across an article saying that Paul Verhoeven stated that the world of Starship Troopers (the Movie) was set in an alternate timeline where the Axis Powers of Germany and Japan won WW2, which is why the world is so Fascist.
So i have decided to look deeper into this.

• In the movie, it is mentioned that Hiroshima was destroyed. At first, it may seem like they are referring to the US Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima, But the way they word it makes it seem like Hiroshima was never full rebuilt. My Theory is that, after conquering the world, the Germans and Japanese couldn't stand each other, and eventually went to war. My Theory is that the "destruction of Hiroshima" was referring to the loss of Hiroshima to a German attack during a possible war between the Axis Powers. Although the presence of a Japanese character in the movie may contradict this.
• In the Movie, most of the characters in the movie (mainly the main characters) have Blonde Hair or Blue Eyes, the caricature of the Aryan "superman." If the Nazis won the war, it is likely that these traits would be common on most people, so that may support the idea.
• Most of the Uniforms worn by the Military Leadership resemble SS uniforms and the Mobile Infantry Helmets have a resemblance to German Stalhelms.
• The Intense racism against the Bugs. as most people know, the Nazis were Racist, So this racism would obviously carry on generations afterwards and most definitely apply to the Bugs .

Of course, there are some flaws in the theory, such as women serving in the Military, as the Nazis believed that the role of the Woman was to stay at home and raise the young. However, the Nazi ideology may have changed over time, as it has been centuries since the Fuhrer died.
what do you all think?

 

[Jasen777]

It makes more sense as the U.S, and the West in general, going fascist as a result of the war on terror, IMO. (Just too bad the movie was made in '97).

 

[oberdada]

If it is, it is ASB and very fascist, considering that it woud mean that the third reich did not only manage to survive, but also managed to culturally take over the world end involve into a space-traveling nation.

Thanks, you just gave me another big reason to despise that movie...

 

[NoOneFamous]

The movie sucked

 

[EnglishCanuck]

I think that's just Paul Verhoeven using an ass pull. Much as I enjoy the movie for its satirical action camp, I tend to dislike Verhoeven completely misinterpreting the original source material for his own ends.

The similarities to the Nazis are only there because of the message the director/writer was trying to get across.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

I think that's just Paul Verhoeven using an ass pull. Much as I enjoy the movie for its satirical action camp, I tend to dislike Verhoeven completely misinterpreting the original source material for his own ends.

The similarities to the Nazis are only there because of the message the director/writer was trying to get across.

Yeah, when I hear people call that movie a satire, I agree — however, it's not a satire of R.A. Heinlein's original book.

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

I would like to ask MR Verhoeven how the Axis managed to win

THE movie is mostly crap - it has its great moments, but Full Metal Jacket is trueer to the source material

 

[Analytical Engine]

The movie sucked

It did. And I think everyone agrees that the sequels never happened at all, and no-one should ever discuss them!

On the other hand, the 90s animated series was much better, and closer to the original book.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Yeah, when I hear people call that movie a satire, I agree — however, it's not a satire of R.A. Heinlein's original book.

Agreed. An excellent satire of militarism (and action films, though ironically it manages to be a good action film) which nails the absurdity of it and its eerie fascist tendencies quite well.

However, close to the original book it is not.

It did. And I think everyone agrees that the sequels never happened at all, and no-one should ever discuss them!

Indeed, its a good thing it was only that one movie

On the other hand, the 90s animated series was much better, and closer to the original book.

A series gone ahead of its time alas. They really should bring it back!!

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

Agreed. An excellent satire of militarism (and action films, though ironically it manages to be a good action film) which nails the absurdity of it and its eerie fascist tendencies quite well.

However, close to the original book it is not.

I admit, people saying that the book is 'fascist' is rather annoying. The Terran Federation is a conservative stratocratic democracy, if a term is needed.

 

[Faeelin]

I admit, people saying that the book is 'fascist' is rather annoying. The Terran Federation is a conservative stratocratic democracy, if a term is needed.

It's an interesting book for Heinlen, who seemed to believe that the unwashed masses would vote themselves more benefits, but a bunch of soldiers would never vote themselves into becoming a hereditary elite.

 

[Commissar From Kiev]

It's an interesting book for Heinlen, who seemed to believe that the unwashed masses would vote themselves more benefits, but a bunch of soldiers would never vote themselves into becoming a hereditary elite.

Agreed. You don't have to agree with the government depicted, but there aren't really any grounds to call it fascist.

 

[Dave Howery]

the government in the book was a bit weird, in that only a select group of people could vote, but anyone could join that group... so not fascist, not exactly democracy... never sure just what you would call it...

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

It's an interesting book for Heinlen, who seemed to believe that the unwashed masses would vote themselves more benefits, but a bunch of soldiers would never vote themselves into becoming a hereditary elite.

But you miss the part of teh book where the teacher tells Rico that the "Soldiers" are in no way better than the non soldier citizens (same crime rate,...)

Why should vote soldiersvote themselves into a position they are effectively already in. I assuume in Heinleins book Soldiers represent the whole spectrum of ideologies (peaceniks excluded). . The voteing class will compete within the class.

In addition elite? It is expliately stated that the army MUST take everybody - even physically disabled perssone and find a spot where they can serve - it might not be easy, but they CAN serve)...

 

[Whiteshore]

The Kaiserreich would IMHO be a better fit than Nazi Germany due to the democratic features of the Federation's society.

 

[BlackWave]

Er...near as I can tell, Verhoeven never said anything like this. The Nazi imagery was pretty much just there for effect. The film does, however, nicely parody shots of things like Triumph of the will, so maybe somebody took that far too literally.

As for the book...ironically, given the first-person view and the constant banging over the head about the ideology, it can be taken as an in-universe propaganda piece. The bugs are transparently stand-ins for communist China (who, of course, are also a big threat mentioned in the backstory), and the characters happily march off to nuke 'em, so fascistic it may or may not be, but jingoistic it definitely it is. I prefer the 'reality' to be closer to Forever War, a much more interesting book, where it's all just a pointless slog across a vast cosmos against an enemy they barely understand.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

It's an interesting book for Heinlen, who seemed to believe that the unwashed masses would vote themselves more benefits, but a bunch of soldiers would never vote themselves into becoming a hereditary elite.

Mmm the idea in its execution is interesting. Especially since Heinlein didn't consider only soldiers as being eligible for the vote (never stated in the books, but he expanded on the idea later on) but the book makes it look overly militaristic. Heinlein's idea really was that the 'disciplined elite' would be more knowledgeable of the needs of society and would weigh their votes more carefully if they earned them.

Doesn't strike me as one well lent to entrenching a hereditary elite especially since literally anyone can volunteer for some sort of inane service. If you're blind and have no limbs you can still sign up, but God only knows how you'd spend your service years.

Summed up, if you have to earn the franchise you respect it more.

 

[NoOneFamous]

In the movie when they invade the bug planet, the ground forces seem to have no one in command, they are all running around in circles.

 

[Baconheimer]

I actually liked both the book and the movie.

 

[wellis]

Heinlein was weird and varied in his political beliefs and idealistic societies over the years. Compare the Heinlein who wrote SST to the one who wrote about idealistic nudist societies on Mars for example.

As for Verhoeven, fuck him. His movie sucked and he himself couldn't even tell you the messages his movie was supposed to have. Hell, the movie was originally a completely unrelated movie about fighting bug aliens on some planet. You could almost call the SST movie a dolled up installment of that would-be original idea.