Shadow of Fashoda

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by fortyseven, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Thread for the latest version of my 3rd Hundred Wars TL. Link in my sig. Started a new thread because I'm changing/adding a lot but mainly I wanted a cool title. I won't be posting it for a while. I'd like to know what level of interest there is. Thanks.
     
  2. rcduggan 大元帅

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2007
    Location:
    New England Democratic Republic
    I'd be interested in reading it.
     
  3. Nekromans Mernber

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Location:
    Leicester
    As would I. I know lots of people think Fashoda is cliché, but to be honest, I've never actually seen a TL of it outside of 47's sig.
     
  4. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    I read one a long time ago. I don't remember anything about it. I haven't read any AH novels with such a POD.
     
  5. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Going to post the first part in a day or 2.
     
  6. Geordie Married Man

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Location:
    Jarrow-on-Tyne, or Farnborough, Hampshire
    I'm interested
     
  7. Grey Wolf Me? Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Deepest Wales
    Oo, a new name for it :)

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf
     
  8. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Yeah, I thought of it and looked for it and I only found two references. One was about De Gaulle. The old title became too limiting and too many didn't understand it or didn't think it fit *shrugs*.
     
  9. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Here's the first part:

    Fashoda War: 1898-1900

    The Fashoda War was a localized conflict between Britain and France in north east Africa. The French fired on the British accidentally and the British returned fire. The British forces under Kitchener had a technological and numerical advantage and they got lucky. The British won handily. In the peace treaty, France ceded the north eastern slice of French Equatorial Africa to Britain. The British thus have contiguous territory from Nigeria to Anglo-Egyptian Sudan. Jean Baptiste Marchand is hailed as a hero by the French people for preventing worse losses and negotiating for better terms than would normally have been given.

    In 1898, the US annexes the Hawaiian Islands.

    Spanish-American War: 1898

    1898 Treaty of Paris:

    USA gains the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.

    In 1899, the Ottoman Empire grants a concession for a Berlin to Baghdad Railway. Italy annexes Eritrea.


    Philippine-American War/Insurgency: 1899-1902/1913


    US victory. The Philippines remain a US territory.
    In 1900, Italy annexes Somaliland.


    Second Boer War: 1899-1902

    In 1902, the British win a Pyrrhic victory over the Boers of South Africa.

    Boxer Rebellion: 1900

    The European powers put down the Boxer Rebellion in China

    During 1900-1903, the British conquer "Nigeria".

    In 1900, the first rigid airship, is built by Ferdinand von Zeppelin of Germany. Guglielmo Marconi invents the wireless telegraph.

    In 1901, a major oil field is discovered in Texas, USA. The Commonwealth of Australia is formed. Britain launches it's first submarine.

    In 1902, Cuba gains its independence from Spain but becomes a protectorate of the USA. The Anglo-Japanese Treaty is signed. The Venezuela Crisis occurs.

    In 1903, British forces invade Tibet. Britain allies with Germany, Austria and Italy to form the Quadruple Alliance. The Trans-Siberian Railroad is completed. The Wright Brothers invent a heavier-than-air flying machine. A major oil field is discovered in Oklahoma, USA. Panama gains independence from Colombia with the backing of the US.

    In 1904, Britain and Germany agree to jointly build a Cape to Cairo Railway and a Lagos to Berbera Railway. Tibet becomes a British protectorate.

    Russo-Japanese War: 1904-05

    The Japanese destroy the Russian Baltic Fleet in the Battle of Tsushima Straits.

    In 1905, Russia cedes the southern half of Sakhalin Island and Lushun (Ryojun) to Japan. Following the war, a near-revolution erupts in Russia and the Duma is established. The Anglo-Japanese Treaty is renewed. Norway gains independence from Sweden. Albert Einstein discovers Special Relativity and explains the Photoelectric Effect by light quanta.


    Moroccan Crisis: 1905

    Limited hostilities occur between France and Germany over Morocco. International mediation begins.


    Persian War: 1905-07


    In a continuation of the Great Game and taking advantage of Russian weakness, Great Britain forms a military alliance with the Ottoman Empire with the purpose of conquering Persia and denying Russia a possible ally or conquest. Great Britain and the Ottoman Empire jointly invade Persia in late 1905. British forces invade from the east as the Royal Navy moves in to blockade the coast. Ottoman forces invade northwestern Persia. With the destruction of the Persian navy, British forces bombard and subsequently capture Hormuz. By late 1906, the British have captured all of southern Persia and the Ottomans have captured northwestern Persia. By early 1907, the British have conquered the rest of Persia.

    In 1906, the Moroccan Crisis ends and the northern half of Morocco is ceded to Germany. Japan completes the South Manchurian Railway that runs from Changchun to Ryojun(Lushun). Lee De Forest of the US invents a triode amplifier (three-iode vacuum tube). Russia completes the Trans-Aral Railway from Orenberg to Tashkent.

    In 1907, Queen Victoria of Great Britain dies. Newfoundland and New Zealand become Dominions. Russia and China form an alliance. France signs several trade agreements with the US. China and France form an alliance.

    1907 Treaty of Lahore:

    The Ottomans gain northwestern Persia (Persian Kurdistan, Persian Azerbaijan, Lorestan, Ilam, and Kermanshah).

    Britain gains the rest of Persia (Khuzestan, Hamedan, Markazi, Persian Baluchistan, Kerman, Fars, Khorasan, Esfahan, Semnan, Bushehr, and Qom).
    Britain trades the Pashtun lands of India to Afghanistan in exchange for the Baluchi lands of Afghanistan, and a non-agression pact and economic treaties with Afghanistan. Britain agrees not to annex any Afghan lands in the future or meddle in Afghani internal affairs.

    Russia agrees that Afghanistan is outside its sphere of influence.

    In 1908, Austria annexes Bosnia-Herzegovina. The Young Turks Revolt erupts. A large oil field is discovered in Masjid Soleiman, Khuzestan (UK). Oil is also discovered near Abadan, Khuzestan (UK). The first Model T car is produced by Henry Ford of the US. Bulgaria declares independence from the Ottoman Empire. Sweden and Norway sign a non-aggression pact.

    In 1909, British and German forces restore Sultan Abdulhamid II to power in Istanbul after helping him crush the Young Turks. Abdulhamid II restores the 1876 Constitution. The first polymer is discovered. The Anglo-Siamese Treaty is signed. Bakelite is invented.

    In 1910, major oil fields are discovered in Mexico and California, USA. Japan annexes Korea. The Union of South Africa is formed as a Dominion. The Portuguese First Republic is formed. Russia completes a branch line of the Trans-Caspian Railway from Bukhara to Termez. Construction of the Baghdad-Karachi Railway begins.

    Mexican Revolution: 1910-20

    In 1910, President Diaz of Mexico is overthrown in a coup.

    In 1911, the Qing Dynasty in China is overthrown. The Ottoman Empire joins the Quadruple Alliance. A Chinese republic is established under Sun Yat-Sen. The Anglo-Japanese Treaty is renewed for 10 years. Ernest Rutherford re-discovers the atom. Superconductivity is discovered. The first ocean-going, diesel ship, Selandia is launched by Denmark.

    In 1912, Yuan Shikai succeeds Sun Yat-Sen. The US begins occupying Nicaragua.

    In 1913, Sweden tests the first diesel-electric trains. Stainless steel is invented. The UK Parliament passes the Third Irish Home Rule Act. Ireland becomes a self-governing Dominion.

    In 1914, Britain launches the HMS Arc Royal, the first aircraft carrier. The Panama Canal opens. A major oil field is discovered near Lake Maracaibo, Venezuela. The assembly line is developed by the US. The first successful blood transfusion occurs.

    World War One: 1915-1916

    A general war breaks out between the Alliance (Britain, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Italy, Ottoman Empire) and the Entente (France, Russia, Serbia) in early 1915. Austrian and Ottoman forces invade Serbia. Anglo-German naval forces blockade the Strait of Gibraltar and defeat the French Atlantic Fleet off Brittany. An Allied naval force in the Black Sea keeps the Russians from attacking the Straits. In western and southwestern Africa, Anglo-German forces battle French forces. Japan declares war on France. Japan declares war on China. Japanese forces invade the Chinese provinces of Guangxi, Hainan, and Guandong. France's Pacific possessions fall to Allied forces by August 1915. Allied forces, including Von Lettow-Vorbeck, fight French forces in central, north-eastern and north-western Africa. In western Europe, Alliance forces advance into France. Paris falls late Summer 1915. France signs a peace treaty in the Fall of 1915. Austrian and Ottoman forces besiege Belgrade. In the east, German and Austrian forces advance deep into Russia. Austrian and Ottoman forces overrun Serbia. Belgrade falls late 1915. Serbia surrenders to Austria and the Ottomans. Ottoman and other Allied forces capture Armenia by late 1915. By early 1916, Ottoman and other Allied forces capture all of Georgia south of the Caucasus Major mountains and the Psou River. Allied forces invade the Crimea in the Spring of 1916. Allied forces capture the Crimea by mid-1916. In mid 1916, Nicholas II of Russia is deposed in a coup and placed under confinement. Bessarabia declares independence. Finland declares independence. The Fourth Caucasian Imamate (Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia) declares independence. The provisional government in Russia signs a peace treaty with the Alliance.

    In 1915, President Yuan Shikai of China proclaims himself Emperor. The US begins a 10-year occupation of Haiti. Pyrex is invented. The Altai Railway, connecting Novosibirsk and Semipalatinsk is completed.

    In 1916, Emperor Yuan Shikai abdicates and soon dies. The Warlord Era begins in China. US General John Pershing leads the 8th Brigade into Mexico in search of Pancho Villa. The US begins an 8-year occupation of the Dominican Republic.

    1917 Treaty of Prague:

    Germany gains the rest of Alsace-Lorraine, the Longwy-Brier iron ore field of France, the Belgian provinces of Luxembourg and Liege, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, the Baltic region of Russia,"Russian" Poland, the Ukraine, southern Morocco, and part of French West Africa (Ubangi-Shari, Benin, Gabon), the northern third of Belgian Congo and various French islands.

    Austria-Hungary gains the Sanjak of Novi Pazar, part of French West Africa. Montenegro and Serbia become Austrian vassals.

    Britain gains Southern Algeria, Cote d'Ivoire, the rest of French West Africa (e.g. Senegal, Gambia, Burkina Faso, Chad, "Niger", "Mauritania", Mali), Djibouti and various French islands.

    The Ottoman Empire gains the Crimea, Russian Armenia, Russian Azerbaijan and Georgia. The Caucasian Imamate becomes a vassal of the Ottoman Empire.

    Bessarabia joins Romania.

    Italy gains Tunisia, Corsica, and Haute Savoie.

    France retains northern Algeria, French Guyana, and Madagascar.

    Japan gains Hainan, French Indochina and France's sphere of influence in China.

    In 1917, the 8th Brigade returns to the USA having failed to find Pancho Villa. Sidonia Pais overthrows the Portuguese First Republic and intsalls a dictatorship. Jean Baptiste Marchand, the 'Hero of Fashoda', a decorated WW1 veteran, and the deputy chief of defense overthrows the government of France and installs a military quasi-dictatorship. Marchand had the support of the Right and the military. Many favoured the new government. Revolts by dissenters were quickly crushed. In Russia, Grand Duke Michael becomes Regent upon the forced abdication of Tsar Nicholas II.

    In 1918, the Regent, Grand Duke Michael is crowned Tsar of All the Russias. Tsar Michael II signs a constitution and empowers the Duma. The Austrian government encourages German settlement in its new terriories. The plan meets with little support. The Baghdad to Karachi Railway is completed. The Communist rebellion in Russia is defeated. Radar is invented. Burma and Baluchistan are separated from India.

    In 1919, Alavaro Obregon comes to power in Mexico. Georgia and the Crimea are created as vassals of the Ottoman Empire.

    In 1920, the first transatlantic zeppelin flight occurs. Germany completes the Wesel-Datteln Canal.

    In 1921, the Tommy Gun is invented. Japan joins the Alliance. Britain takes over all of Shanghai. Germany takes over all of Shandong Penninsula except for Port Edward (Weiheiwai). Japan extends its sphere of influence into Manchuria. Spain and Portugal sign a non-aggression pact. Austria-Hungary attempts to renew the Augsleich. Hungary disagrees with the new terms. Negotiations break down. Hungary declares independence.

    War of Slavic Independence: 1921-1923

    The Poles and South Slavs of Austria-Hungary also revolt and declare indpendence. Civil war breaks out in Austria-Hungary in early 1922. By late 1922, many regular troops had joined the rebels. In mid 1923, German, Ottoman, Romanian and Italian forces invade Austria-Hungary. The Germans invade the German-majority speaking areas and Bohemia. The Italians invade the Adriatic coast. The Romanians invade Bukovina and Transylvania. The Ottomans invade Bosnia. The Austrians are overwhelmed. By early 1924, the collapse of Austria-Hungary is complete.

    In 1922, Germany launches the Graf Zeppelin. The Graf Zeppelin completes a round-the-world trip. The India Home Rule Act is passed by the UK Parliament. India becomes a self-governing Dominion.

    In 1923, the first true aircraft carrier, the HMS Hermes is launched by Britain. Miguel Primo de Rivera of Spain, with the support of the military and the trade unions leads a successful coup against the Spanish government and installs a dictatorship. Norway, Sweden and Finland sign a non-aggression pact. Russia completes the Turkestan-Siberia Railway which runs from Arys to Novosibirsk

    1924 Treaty of Athens:

    Italy gains Southern Tyrol, Istria, and the lands of the Slovenes and Croats.
    The Ottoman Empire regains Bosnia.

    Germany gains Austria, Austrian Silesia, Bohemia and Galicia.

    Slovakia and Hungary (including northeastern Vojvodina) gain independence.

    Romania gains Bukovina, Transylvania and a small part of north north-eastern Vojvodina.


    In 1924, German zeppelins begin using helium exclusively. Regular transatlantic zeppelin flights between the Americas and Europe begin.

    In 1925, Erwin Schrödinger and Werner Heisenberg formulate quantum mechanics. Courland, Lithuania, Austria, the Sudetenland and western Austrian Silesia are incorporated into the German Empire. Bohemia (including Czech Silesia), the United Baltic Duchy, the Ukraine, Poland (including eastern Austrian Silesia) and Belarus are created as German vassals. Italy incorporates Southern Tyrol and Istria. Italy establishes Slovenia and Croatia as vassals. China builds a railway linking Xinjang and Sichuan.

    In 1926, the Ottomans, in support of the Al-Rashid, declare war on Wahhabi Najd and invade. The first liquid-fuel rocket is launched by Robert Goddard of the USA. The first round-the world zeppelin flight occurs.

    Cristero War: 1926-29

    A conflict between the Church and the State in Mexico.

    In 1927, a major oil field is discovered near Kirkuk, Ottoman Empire.

    In 1928, the French begin producing a medium tank, the Char D2, and an improved anti-tank rifle. The Ottomans and Al-Rashid conquer the Nejd. The Kingdom of Rashidi Arabia is established as a vassal of the Ottoman Empire.

    In 1929, Eastern China is unified under a provisional national government. Western China remains under the control of warlords. Italy invades Ethiopia.

    In 1930, the British invent the first jet. Germany starts producing Panzer I tanks. The analog computer is invented. Nylon is invented. Italy annexes Ethiopia. Italy creates Italian East Africa out of Eritrea, Ethiopia and Italian Somalia.

    In 1931, the radio telescope is invented. The Second Spanish Republic is established.
     
  10. Ridwan Asher Jungle Arab

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    In the middle of nowhere
    Bump.

    Is that only rough first draft, fortyseven? If yes, that's pretty good. :cool:
     
  11. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    No, third version actually. I changed the name this time. Thank you very much.

    I have an edit:

    In 1905, Russia cedes the southern half of Sakhalin Island and Lushun (Ryojun) to Japan. Japan leased the Liaodong Peninsula. Following the war, a near-revolution erupts in Russia and the Duma is established. The Anglo-Japanese Treaty is renewed. Norway gains independence from Sweden. Albert Einstein discovers Special Relativity and explains the Photoelectric Effect by light quanta.


    World War One: 1915-1916

    A general war breaks out between the Alliance (Britain, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Italy, Ottoman Empire, Japan) and the Entente (France, Russia, Serbia) in early 1915. Austrian and Ottoman forces invade Serbia. Anglo-German naval forces blockade the Strait of Gibraltar and defeat the French Atlantic Fleet off Brittany. An Allied naval force in the Black Sea keeps the Russians from attacking the Straits. In western and southwestern Africa, Anglo-German forces battle French forces. Japan declares war on France. Japan declares war on China. Japanese forces invade the Chinese provinces of Guangxi, Hainan, and Guandong. France's Pacific possessions fall to Allied forces by August 1915. Allied forces, including Von Lettow-Vorbeck, fight French forces in central, north-eastern and north-western Africa. In western Europe, Alliance forces advance into France. Paris falls late Summer 1915. France signs a peace treaty in the Fall of 1915. Austrian and Ottoman forces besiege Belgrade. In the east, German and Austrian forces advance deep into Russia. Austrian and Ottoman forces overrun Serbia. Belgrade falls late 1915. Serbia surrenders to Austria and the Ottomans. Ottoman and other Allied forces capture Armenia by late 1915. By early 1916, Ottoman and other Allied forces capture all of Georgia south of the Caucasus Major mountains and the Psou River. Allied forces invade the Crimea in the Spring of 1916. Allied forces capture the Crimea by mid-1916. In mid 1916, Nicholas II of Russia is deposed in a coup and placed under confinement. Japan declares war on Russia. Japan invades north Sakhalin Island. Japan occupies north Sakhalin Island. Bessarabia declares independence. Finland declares independence. The Fourth Caucasian Imamate (Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia) declares independence. The provisional government in Russia signs a peace treaty with the Alliance.

    Japan gains Hainan, French Indochina, France's sphere of influence in China, and the northern half of Sakhalin Island.
     
  12. corourke Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    This is really good.

    How is the relationship between the British and the Germans at this time? Like, are the British fairly resigned to being less powerful than the Germans, or have the Germans avoided building up their navy in order to appease their allies?

    What does the US navy look like? I foresee a conflict with Japan in the near future.
     
  13. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Thanks corourke.

    I don't know. I presume that both Britain and Germany would have had considerably less ships in TTL 1915 than in OTL 1914. I would suppose that the HMS Dreadnought would still be built and copied but that the development of a super-dreadnought would be much slower. What would you suggest for the relative sizes of the German and British fleets? I'm thinking maybe a strict ratio (10:7?) I don't know what the US Navy looks like. I presume it'd be the same as OTL until WW1 and then fall behind.

    If you have any suggestions, just let me know.
     
  14. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    A clarification: Italy gained the County of Nice from France following WW1.
     
  15. Grey Wolf Me? Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Deepest Wales
    If the British don't get Fisher in position so early on, then the development of the all-big-gun battleship could be slower. Ironically, the Dreadnought could be built as a pre-dreadnought, and your 'dreadnoughts' might end up being called 'conquerors' after the potential leadship of a later class, HMS Conqueror, which might be the first 'dreadnought' in your timeline...if you see what I mean ?!

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf
     
  16. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    Yes. Unlike others on the Board, I'm fairly uninformed on naval matters.
     
  17. Grey Wolf Me? Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Deepest Wales
    Was not Russia leasing BOTH Lushun/Port Arthur and the rest of the Liaodong Peninsular from China ? So, here we have it ceding Lushun, but it can't cede rights of ownership if it doesn't legally own it... In this sense, then whether or not Japan leases the peninsular places it on the same footing as Lushun. The way round it, to get what I think you need, is for CHINA to cede Lushun in all aspects of sovereignty to Japan, whilst Japan accepts a leasing arrangement with respect to the rest of the peninsular

    I'd check my facts/memory out first, though - you can't rely on what sits in that chaotic mess inside my head to be right for sure...

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf
     
  18. Grey Wolf Me? Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Deepest Wales
    Of course, the Americans might well get there first with the South Carolina, though I can't see the British (and thus the rest of the Europeans) accepting anything except a British-inspired term for such warships. You might get the strange situation where in the US-dominated areas 'dreadnoughts' are called CAROLINAS, and in the European theatre they are known as CONQUERORS

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf
     
  19. fortyseven Mastermind

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Empire of the True North
    It's the latter. It's the same as OTL.
     
  20. Grey Wolf Me? Gone Fishin'

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Deepest Wales
    Handily, Wiki does an article on the Kwantung Leased Territory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwantung_Leased_Territory

    Best Regards
    Grey Wolf