Relics of Rome, or Savage Tribes in Countless Numbers

I'm very doubtful that the Goths could have attempted to set up an Italian kingdom as early as the 410s- the Empire at this part is just much, much stronger than they are. Plus, Constantinople won't be properly tied up in the East now for a generation, so she'll be able to intervene (as IOTL) effectively in Western Imperial politics. I can't see this Gothic state lasting long.
Alaric wanted a homeland in Illyria-Venetia-Rhaetia, so with a POD 30 years before, why not one in the real prize?

And of course the East will try to get Italy back. That will be one of the biggest things until the Hunnic horde :D.

EDIT: Alaric, not Attila.
 
Last edited:
I swear, every other time I type Alaric, I put Attila.

I have a question (well, a few related ones). Might any of the usurpers add things to their name if they are successful? Like Maximus of Hispania may become known as Maximus Hispanicus? And all the usurpers would add Flavius to their name since they declare emperorship, regardless of whether they succeed (Constantine III added Flavius in OTL)?
 
I swear, every other time I type Alaric, I put Attila.

I have a question (well, a few related ones). Might any of the usurpers add things to their name if they are successful? Like Maximus of Hispania may become known as Maximus Hispanicus? And all the usurpers would add Flavius to their name since they declare emperorship, regardless of whether they succeed (Constantine III added Flavius in OTL)?

Maximus Hispanicus... MAXIMUS THE SPANIARD :cool:

You should do it, if only for the Gladiator reference.
 
Chapter 1: GOTHS IN ROME

Part 5: Usurpers

Maximus Tiranus. An usurper of the Western Roman Empire, who did not fully succeed, because the West was hardly extant enough to be usurped. But the successful usurper of much of Hispania. He was elected by the general Gerontius, possibly his father or one of his uncles.

Gerontius was previously one of the supporters of Constantine III of Britannia, also an usurper. Constantine III declared himself, and was declared, the Western Roman Emperor in 407 after news of the barbarian-caused chaos in Gallia reached Britannia. Prior to this, the provinces in Britannia had already set up and disavowed multiple usurpers--but he was the last. Constantine was chosen since his name evoked a sense of capability due to the fact that it was identical to that of Constantine the Great, who coincidentally took power in Britannia.

Constantine III was a fairly average soldier, without special martial ability but still with some capability. He took all mobile troops in Britannia (which was one of the events leading to its fall) and rushed across the Britannic Sea [1], arriving in Bononia. Justinian and Nebiogastes, supporters of Constantine III and generals leading the main part of his army, headed to Valentia Julia. They were defeated by troops led by Sarus, who himself was sent by Stilicho. But after this defeat, Constantine III sent another army led by Gerontius and Edobichus, forcing Sarus to retreat into Italy.

Constantine III managed to secure the Rhine, garrison the passes from Gallia to Italy, and even make Arelate [2] his capital. He appointed Apollinaris as his prefect. The year was 408. Then, suspecting that cousins of Emperor Honorius residing in Hispania would attack from the south while Sarus and Stilicho would attack from the southeast, Constantine III elevated his eldest son Constans to the position of co-emperor and sent him to Hispania with Gerontius. One battle was lost and another one won; two cousins escaped to Constantinople while two were captured. Then, Constans left Gerontius in Hispania while he departed to Arelate.

Suddenly, several events occurred undermining the (loyalist) Western Empire, which would lead Constantine III to a temporary moment of success and glory. In early August, 408, a Roman army in Ticinum mutinied. The following events were chaotic, but by the end of the year, Stilicho had been executed, probably on Honorius’ orders, Sarus had abandoned the western army out of dissatisfaction, and Honorius was left without significant military power while Alaric and his Goths raged in Tyrrhenia. Constantine III sent envoys to Ravenna, and Honorius, in a fairly powerless state, appointed him as co-emperor and co-consul for the year 409. This would be Constantine III’s highest point, as he essentially ruled over all of the Western Empire except for Italy and the African provinces..

But throughout this time, the barbarian tribes who had crossed the Rhine in 406, the Vandals, Alans, Suebi, and Burgundians, had been plundering their way through Gallia. They arrived at the Pyrenees in 409 and crushed garrisons loyal to Constantine III. As a response, Constantine III proclaimed his son Constans an Augustus and sent him to deal with the barbarians in Hispania. Subsequently, Gerontius rebelled against Constantine III and appointed a relative, Maximus Tiranus, as the Western Roman Emperor. Nearly simultaneously, Saxon pirates raided Britannia, showcasing Constantine III’s neglect of the region and thus leading to the rebellion of both Britannia and Armorica and the expulsion of Constantine III’s officials from the former.

The reason Gerontius rebelled is uncertain; it’s possible that he disliked the appointment of Constans. After all, as Gerontius expected, it led to Constans replacing him as Constantine III’s chief military man in Hispania, and it would have even if he hadn’t revolted. It’s also possible that Gerontius was disheartened by the failure of Constantine III to hold back the barbarians who had just arrived in Hispania. Or perhaps he just saw an opportunity to gain power. Regardless, as soon as Gerontius and Maximus rebelled against Constantine III in northeastern Hispania, they began to carve out a sphere of influence in the region.

Usurper Maximus Tiranus and Gerontius, his main general and supporter, allied with the barbarian tribes surrounding them. The Suebi, Vandals, Alans, and Burgundians had initially become foederati after swearing fealty to Honorius, but Maximus Tiranus’ usurped empire quickly became the local authority, at least for the Suebi, as well as the Vascons, who had inhabited the area for many centuries. He offered large swathes of land to the Suebi, even greater in extent than those offered by envoys of Honorius, and in exchange, not only were they placated despite the change in rule, but they provided to Maximus and Gerontius a large army. Some Vascons and Romans also fought for Maximus. Burgundians, Alans, and Vandals may have fought for Maximus too, but in general, his rule did not extend that far.

Maximus Tiranus and Gerontius, as well as King Hermeric of the Suebi, who played a large part in the new usurping state, also aligned themselves with the Franks, enemies of Constantine III.

Using his army of barbarians, Gerontius defended Maximus’ territories from the invader Constans throughout 410. Meanwhile, Constantine III made a desperate gamble. As his proclaimed Western Empire was falling apart, he marched on Italy with his remaining troops, urged to do so by an individual named Allobichus. The invasion, which took place in late spring in 410, ended in defeat. Allobichus lost his life, and Constantine was forced to retreat into Gallia.

Gerontius continued to fight Constans, who was captured and killed in 411 at Colonia Julia Vienna. He then headed to Arelate, trapping Constantine there and besieging him. However, troops of Caius Posthumus Dardanus, the prefect of Gallia who was loyal to Honorius and somewhat loyal to the Visigoths, forced Gerontius to retreat. Constantine III was captured and beheaded by Dardanus shortly thereafter.

After the fall of Constantine III, Jovinus, a Gallo-Roman senator, was supported by Goar, the king of a Roman-allied group of Alans, in a claim of Western emperorship. Unlike Constantine III, he allied himself with the Franks. He was able to take control of much of Lugdunensis and other areas of Northern Gallia, but Dardanus and other loyalists prevented him from taking control of the south, despite two attempts to take Arelate. It should be noted, however, that Dardanus himself was barely holding onto the south.

After being ousted by Dardanus, Gerontius returned to Hispania to report to Maximus. As commanded by Maximus, he took control of parts of Gallia Aquitania after passing through the lands of the Vascons, but did not advance too far north of the River Garunna. At the same time, Hermeric of the Suebi, leading a purely Suebic army expanded Maximus’ territories into a small part of Septimania, as well as further south. Both of these new lands were to be ruled by the Suebi, who would be subservients of Maximus.

Some time in 412, Maximus Tiranus declared that he was the Emperor of Tarraconensis. He ceased to call himself the Western Roman Emperor (though he never said that he wasn’t). And to the mild dismay of Gerontius and Hermeric, he did not pursue the actual conquest of the western half of the Empire. Of course, despite their surprise and disappointment at this political backing-down, Gerontius and Hermeric both remained loyal to Maximus, as Gerontius had appointed Maximus, who was a relative, in the first place, and Hermeric had received, thanks to Maximus, much land for his people. Little did they know that Maximus Tiranus’s restraint at that point would actually lead to success in the future--for one, lessening his claims would improve Maximus’s reputation with Honorius, the Visigoths, and the East.

For the time being, Maximus Tiranus minted coins in Barcino with his name and image on them and commissioned construction work on many of his cities’ walls. Hermeric’s Suebi settled and took control of their vast new territories--everything south of the Ebro river, and even some areas north of it, as well as a patch of Septimania--that Maximus Tiranus officially granted at this time. In 413 or 414, Hermeric converted to Catholicism, and in 414, Maximus Tiranus was referred to as Flavius Claudius Maximus Tiranus Hispanicus for the first time.

[1] The Britannic Sea is the English Channel.
[2] Arles
 
Last edited:
The events are quite a... fustercluck :p, so does it all make sense? Also, is everything consistent? I tried to make it so but I might have missed some things.

Posting the last 'Part' of the chapter shortly, as well as the map.

Do you guys actually read the updates or just skim through them. I want to know how much detail I should put.
 
Chapter 1: GOTHS IN ROME

Part 6: Britannia

In the late 4th and early 5th centuries, Roman rule in Britannia faded away. In 383, the west and north were abandoned. In 401, troops were removed from Hadrian’s Wall. In 407, the southeast was abandoned after the usurper Constantine III took the region’s troops. In 409, Roman magistrates, thanks to Constantine III’s neglect, were expelled from cities in Britannia. And in 410, Honorius declared that the Britannians should see to their own defense. After Constantine’s death in 411, Britannia was unquestionably no longer a part of the Roman Empire.

However, despite the fading-away of Roman rule, there were still Romans in Britannia. Over the years they were forced out from where they lived and coalesced more and more in the far south-southeast of the island.

Meanwhile, new settlers arrived in Britannia--violently. From the east, Angles and Saxons, probably due to rising water levels and climatic cooling in their homeland, began to raid and settle Britannia. While Goidels from Hibernia began to do the same from the west. And the Romans and Brythons were stuck right in the middle.

On the other hand, Brythons had been settling the western peninsula of Armorica for quite some time. They would continue to do so, and with new groups raiding and moving into Britannia, Brython settlement of the mainland would only increase for most of the next century.
 
Chapter 1: GOTHS IN ROME

Part 7: Map of relevant parts of the Mediterranean World at the end of 414

The Suebi are part of the Empire of Tarraconensis, while the Vascons provide open passage. Basically light grey indicates some sort of union or foederati agreement, while dark grey shows 'international' borders.

The lighter areas of Jovinus' realm are more directly controlled while the darker ones are marginal.

All of the dark red areas ('Uncertan Roman rule', 'Prefect Apringius', and 'Prefect Dardanus') are loyalist to the Western Roman Emperor, Honorius. Who is, of course, a puppet of Ataulf of the Gothic Kingdom of Italy.

ror2 1 - Copy.png

ror2 1 - Copy.png
 
Last edited:
Nice updates, but, yeah, hella lot going on here. Took me a while to get my head around it, but damn...... complex.

I, personally, would think it would be awesome if the Goidels settled more of Britannia than the Anglo-Saxons, but that's just me.
 
Maximus rules less than I expected he would.
Yeah, but the Vascons and Suebi are part of his realm plus he just founded his kingdom.

Nice updates, but, yeah, hella lot going on here. Took me a while to get my head around it, but damn...... complex.

I, personally, would think it would be awesome if the Goidels settled more of Britannia than the Anglo-Saxons, but that's just me.
I'm glad Constantius III was butterflied away with Visigothic conquest, otherwise I would have to talk about Constantius, Gerontius, Constans, and Constantine at the same time :p.

Well I would need a reason for that to happen. In OTL, despite Goidelic raiding all the way into Wales, Welsh is a Brythonic rather than a Goidelic language.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, but the Vascons and Suebi are part of his realm plus he just founded his kingdom.

I'm glad Constantius III was butterflied away with Visigothic conquest, otherwise I would have to talk about Constantius, Gerontius, and Constantine at the same time :p.

Well I would need a reason for that to happen. In OTL, despite Goidelic raiding all the way into Wales, Welsh is a Brythonic rather than a Goidelic language.

well, the irish settled scotland, replacing cumbrian and pictish which were brythonic (pictish is arguably non-indo-european, but eh)
 
Exalent update(s);)

are the Alans to remain a factor or a minority in hispania, or will they be overun like OTL??

and yes, I read them all the way
 
Wonderful timeline. Seeing as Remnants of Rome was what got me interested in this site, I can't very well pass up its successor. Looking forward to more.
 
I forsee Jovinus' part of the old Roman realm being overrun by the Salian Franks in Toxandria and having them move in to that turf. By the time of the POD, they had spend around a century within Roman lands, and have become more or less accustomed to Roman ways and customs (to a degree). The local aristocracy might even personally hand over Jovinus if they feel that they could get a better deal under Frankish rule.

The Romano-Britons need to unite under one king to keep Germanic and Brythonic raids at a minumum.
 
well, the irish settled scotland, replacing cumbrian and pictish which were brythonic (pictish is arguably non-indo-european, but eh)
Of course. I already knew that; I actually kind of know what I'm doing here unlike in Remnants of Rome.

Exalent update(s);)

are the Alans to remain a factor or a minority in hispania, or will they be overun like OTL??

and yes, I read them all the way
The Alans, like the other tribes who have arrived in Hispania, will remain a factor. They will eventually be defeated by someone--but who isn't?

I forsee Jovinus' part of the old Roman realm being overrun by the Salian Franks in Toxandria and having them move in to that turf. By the time of the POD, they had spend around a century within Roman lands, and have become more or less accustomed to Roman ways and customs (to a degree). The local aristocracy might even personally hand over Jovinus if they feel that they could get a better deal under Frankish rule.
Let's just say that the relations between the Salian Franks and the Ripuarian Franks may not remain amicable. Nor will they be best of friends with the Chatti and Alemanni. Of course, that's not to say that the Romans will be holding onto anything in the area.

The Romano-Britons need to unite under one king to keep Germanic and Brythonic raids at a minumum.
Yep. A kingdom will be declared some ways to the west, and the Romano-Britons will be forced out of the east and end up settling there.
 
The Alans, like the other tribes who have arrived in Hispania, will remain a factor. They will eventually be defeated by someone--but who isn't?

thats true;)

I read your last TL, I was a great fan of the Huns
I'll be looking forward to see what you have in store for them

(maybe creating a true..HUN-gary:p)
 
LSCatilina brought up some points about how 'kingdom' was only used for barbarian states at this time, and how it's a bit silly that Jovinus would be able to extend his power up to the Rhine, but not into western Armorica.

So the map and preceding 'part' have been updated and corrected. It's now the Empire of Tarraconensis.
 
Is it unrealistic for a barbarian state to hire other barbarians as mercenaries (I suppose the term foederati could still be used for this sort of thing). I'm thinking the Visigoths may have to hire other groups to defend themselves against Eastern Roman incursion.

Also could a western Roman army without any foederati within it ever defeat barbarians at this point in time?
 
Top