Prince Henry of Prussia: The Rise of U-Boat.

SNIP

I know I gave you a hard time in your TL on the German Naval budget, but I am role playing the head of the German Navy.

:D - your input was welcome - I now have a "better feeling" about the naval issues

SNIP

So which option for A-H did you like the best?

Really don't know, but being an Austrian myself, I think they simply will decide that as there is no good solution then simply go on with what we have and hope for the best...

SNIP

Italy is being told not to join by Germany. The 100,000 tons a month of supplies is worth more than the Italian Army.

Truer things were never said :D

SNIP


If I recall the Bulgarian goals correctly they are going to keep Serbia and Montenegro?
From an Austrian Point of viev, I think Serbia might be OK, but Montenegro is the natural Hinterland of the Kotor naval base, so I think Austria might want at least a part of M-N. Best if there is a border too Albania. If Albania is a future neutral (AKA easy prey) then it offers a place to trade in darker times.

Greece is - like Italy - best left out of the war - but if the Brits try a Gallipoli there it will become a thorn in the side of the CPs. Keep a watchful eye there...

Another Point:

I am not sure if its important but I am curious: Are the African Divisions part of the German Army or are they an enlarged Schutztruppe (wich was NOT part of the German Army IOTL).

If they are part of the Schutztruppe then the black officers are NOT Army officers - which would make them more acceptable to the "establishment".

Decorations SHOULD be given out to black soldiers, but I'd suggest you limit them to Getting Iron Crosses and not the Blue Max - this one seems to "prestigious"

Otherwise I think within a Generation or two black Germans will be a common thing even in Germany proper.

BTW did you know that even the Bundesrepublik did pay benefits for the former Askaris - they were well remembered asvaluable allies in WWI...
 
Italy is being told not to join by Germany. The 100,000 tons a month of supplies is worth more than the Italian Army. Now maybe at the very end, if France is stubborn, Italy joins. But first, Falkenhayn wants to drive Russia from the war.

Didn't we already discuss that? The Italians depend on coal imports, fighting Britain means they have no transport by sea available - and thus will soon be short on coal.

To counter that, the transportation net must be improved. My guess is that this already happens on a great scale, as these supplies need to be transported to Germany as well. With Germany getting coal mines in Belgium and France running properly, they might be able to export more to Italy. And once Russia is out, the Russians may sell coal (or deliver coal as part of reparations). Furthermore, Italy would have to stockpile coal. These are possible prerequisites of an Italian entry to the war.

As such, Italy will only join later in the war. Nevertheless, Italy joining the war is probably the easiest way to take out France...

By the way, I still promote Japan joining. They would help knocking out Russia - at least a bit - and they'd be a serious diversion for Britain. Furthermore, my guess is that support from Australia and New Zealand for that "European" war would pretty much end as well...

If I recall the Bulgarian goals correctly they are going to keep Serbia and Montenegro?
From an Austrian Point of viev, I think Serbia might be OK, but Montenegro is the natural Hinterland of the Kotor naval base, so I think Austria might want at least a part of M-N. Best if there is a border too Albania. If Albania is a future neutral (AKA easy prey) then it offers a place to trade in darker times.

Serbia ITTL will likely be partitioned among the "resettlers". My guess is that Bulgaria gets the largest part. Kosovo might end up in Albania. Montenegro will either be annexed to AH or become a vassal state.

What about Romania? Have they already joined the war? If so, I still think AH annexing them and Bulgaria getting Dobrudja is likely. At the very least, we'll see them partitioned into two vassal states: Wallachia and Moldavia (Northern Romania ITTL plus Bessarabia).
 
At the moment I don't think Romania would join the Entente - with the war going good for the CPs I imagine Romania joining theCPs and annexing Odessa...

Probably. AH will then go for more annexations in the East, situated interestingly between greater Romania and the conquered Polish territories. And Bulgaria will get an even larger share of Serbia.
 
Didn't we already discuss that? The Italians depend on coal imports, fighting Britain means they have no transport by sea available - and thus will soon be short on coal.

To counter that, the transportation net must be improved. My guess is that this already happens on a great scale, as these supplies need to be transported to Germany as well. With Germany getting coal mines in Belgium and France running properly, they might be able to export more to Italy. And once Russia is out, the Russians may sell coal (or deliver coal as part of reparations). Furthermore, Italy would have to stockpile coal. These are possible prerequisites of an Italian entry to the war.

As such, Italy will only join later in the war. Nevertheless, Italy joining the war is probably the easiest way to take out France...

That will be difficult.
There is a difference between a 100000 tons of vital supplies from Italy. And building an infrastructure for 1 million tons per month on the hope that Italy might join the war on the CP side.

Germany is at war right now. To improve the transportation net that much you´d need additional steam locomotives, freight cars, rails and construction crews. And every single item used here will be missed by the German armies in France and Russia. :)
And the AH armies in Russia and the Balkans.

Would you divert so many resources just hoping that Italy might join? While every resource is desperately needed by the armies already fighting?

Okay, my sources.
I´ve found a map on the Internet detailing German railways in 1896 (for another thread in the past). The map also includes Belgium, the Netherlands, Eastern France, parts of Austria-Hungary, Switzerland and Northern Italy.
(I additionally checked the histories of the Swiss and Austrian railways to find out if more railway lines to Italy were built till WW1.)
Additionally I looked at my copy of "Rivers and Canals - History of German Waterways" (in German).

Existing possible routes:
Route 1: Ruhr region -> upriver the river Rhine to Basel (possible for smaller river ships unless really low water) -> Swiss railway over the St. Gotthard pass -> Milano (Italy)
Route 2: Ruhr region -> upriver the river Rhine to Karlsruhe or Kehl -> then by railway over Munich -> Innsbruck -> Bozen -> Verona (Italy)
Route 3: Ruhr region -> upriver the river Rhine to Karlsruhe -> then by rail to Regensburg on the river Danube (no steamships upriver of Regensburg) -> downriver the river Danube to Vienna -> railway transport over Villach to Udine / Padua (Italy)
Alternatively Vienna -> Laibach -> Trieste (the Austrian railway histories mentioned that a second railway to Trieste was planned before WW1, don´t know if it was finished).
Route 4: Silesia coal region -> railway transport to Vienna -> then follow route 3 options

Notice that in routes 1-3 I did try to make the most use of waterways. The cheapest and easiest way to transport something like coal.
Route 1 would have the shortest amount of railway transport involved. Roughly 200-250 km. But it involves the Swiss Alps and Swiss neutrality.
Route 2 would involve the Austrian Alps and a railway transport of roughly 500 km.
Route 3 uses the river Danube to circumvent the worst of the Alp mountains. It still involves roughly 400 km of railway transport.
Route 4 is wholly railway bound. Roughly 500 km to the Italian border.

Occupied Belgian and French coal mines would involve additional railway transport to Cologne on the river Rhine first. There´s also the question, who is "running" the mines there? I´m not sure if forced labor would be legal? And the German miners (the ones not in the army) are probably busy in the Ruhr region, Silesia and the Saar region.
Could Germany - without the use of probably illegal forced labor - divert 11 million tons of coal per year to Italy? Especially if Poles in Silesia might leave for independent Poland?

Now let´s talk about steam locomotives. One of the best pre-WW1 German ones, the Prussian P 8 "could haul 300 t at 100 km/h (62 mph) and 400 t at 90 km/h (56 mph) on the flat...".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_P_8

Unfortunately even if you circumvent the Alp mountains (route 3), the ground in Bavaria and in Austria isn´t exactly flat. And there will be domestic traffic on the rails too. Likewise not every part of the railway lines will be certified for 100 km/h (or 300-400 tons for a single train).
Loading and unloading time. Maintenance time. Resting time for the crews.

So in a best case scenario a train might make a one-way trip in a day. Return the next day. If you use the routes across the Alps too(route 1+2), a train might need two locomotives. More trains of course mean larger depots of water and coal too.
Pretty soon we´re talking about 300-400 locomotives at least. That´s 18% of the best German locomotives just for supplying Italy with coal. That´s the peace time production for 12-15 months.
In our Tl the existing steam locomotives were used to the "breaking" point. Which seems to indicate that producing new locomotives, even doing regular maintenance on existing locomotives was a low priority.

And notice too that using existing river boats (options 1-3) on the river Rhine (and river Danube) means that these boats can´t transport other goods. So you either need additional new river boats too or supply for someone else will get hurt.

Sending 30-40 trains to Italy per month to haul back the desperately needed 100000 tons per month supply is doable. Especially since these trains also carry some valuable German goods to Italy for further export to the USA, South America etc.
Preparing to expand it 10 times just on the hope that maybe Italy might join the CP powers seems ill advised though?

Keeping Italy neutral might really be the best option?
 
Allright... the Austrians had special mountain locomotives for crossing the Alps.

Then, according to my railway plan from 1907, there were several other routes: an additional western one from Lausanne to Novara.

Route 3 splits at St. Veit a.d. Glan. One Arm Villach-Udine-Venedig, the other Klagenfurt-Görz-Triest. A third major route splits earlier at Bruck a.d. Mur, Graz-Marburg-Laibach-Triest. The Problem is in the first leg from Wien to Bruck, the rather slow and curving route over the Semmering.
The alternative Route to Triest splits off before the Semmering, circling the Alps east, from Wiener Neustadt via Szombathely and Zagreb to Triest.

Another one would be Breslau to Budapest by rail, or Danube shipping to Budapest, then by rail to Zagreb, joining the last mentioned route, or on a different one to Fiume and shipped from there over the Adria.

OTL, the Russians captured an enormous amount of locomotives and rolling stock when they overran Galizia in 1914, which, together with the lack of maintainance due to manpower shortages that plagued the Germans, too, crippled the A-H railway net.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
If I recall the Bulgarian goals correctly they are going to keep Serbia and Montenegro?
From an Austrian Point of viev, I think Serbia might be OK, but Montenegro is the natural Hinterland of the Kotor naval base, so I think Austria might want at least a part of M-N. Best if there is a border too Albania. If Albania is a future neutral (AKA easy prey) then it offers a place to trade in darker times.

Yes, Bulgaria is to keep Serbia and Montenegro. It was a part of the deal where A-H got a Hapsburg on the throne in Poland, so it is in A-H interest. A-H need to handle all the occupation of Poland for Germany to agree to the deal, and not occupying Serbia and Montenegro was a good place to get the troops from. Also, remember the mass famine in Serbia. From A-H perspective, it is better to let Southern Slavs oversee the famine/disease. It will permanently break the concept of the unified Southern Slavic state, or at least that is the idea. So now, a year later, the question: "Is it worth reopening the can of worms for a single naval base?" I would say no, but I will listen to arguments. I have some plot driven things that have to happen for Germany, but A-H is just along for the ride.

The issue bother A-H is not its naval base, but the Dual Monarchy issues, and a possible civil war. And as long as Italy is neutral/friendly, I am not sure the Adriatic is not a good location for the Naval base. Easy to defend. Also, the Ottomans have given Haifa to the Germans as a base at least for the war, why not put the A-H fleet there if worried about breaking out? or Smyrna? A fortified base starts at 70 million marks and can go up from there if you want dry docks, need to improve the railroad in, want permanent mine fields, etc.

Side note: Remember Serbia has over 80% lower population than prewar.

If you have good ideas for Serbia, I will listen. Serbia is heading towards being country full of abandoned land.

Greece is - like Italy - best left out of the war - but if the Brits try a Gallipoli there it will become a thorn in the side of the CPs. Keep a watchful eye there...

Well, the UK sent 20 divisions from France to the Red Sea in the last couple months. Not much of a worry.

Another Point:

I am not sure if its important but I am curious: Are the African Divisions part of the German Army or are they an enlarged Schutztruppe (wich was NOT part of the German Army IOTL).

The Army divisions are the hugely enlarged Schutztruppe, but they have been given citizenship, so it is a bit vague. FM Zimmermann is leaving it vague so the post war administration can go both ways.

The 3 Marine Divisions would have have the same status as the SeeBattalione had prewar.

If they are part of the Schutztruppe then the black officers are NOT Army officers - which would make them more acceptable to the "establishment".

In Africa they are treated the same as German officers, with the limitation that they can't go above major General. This may seem like an issue, but with over 19 divisions (probably two Armies in France by size) and only a few hundred white officers before the war, virtually all the prewar officers are generals. So for the career officers, it should not be too much of an issue, and to be fair, the black generals are in god forsaken malaria swamps.

Even if I take the maybe 10,000 white males available in all of Africa, no more than 7,000 would be in the Army, and probably less than 3500 of these are able to fight due to huge losses from illness (Twenty five percent per year or higher if in field). Many of the whites will not be educated enough to be officers or will have some other flaw. So most of the whites should be field grade officers or above, or very senior sergeants working for white officers or in the most coveted job, training officer/NCO for the 50,000 people a year to feed into the meat grinder.

But yes, once the war is over, I do plan for these things to be a major issue. But Zimmermann and the staff above him thought the PR benefits from blacks can be Generals in place like India and the USA outweight post war issues which someone else will have to deal with. I am trying to give these guys the same type of flaws that real people like Churchill had.

Decorations SHOULD be given out to black soldiers, but I'd suggest you limit them to Getting Iron Crosses and not the Blue Max - this one seems to "prestigious"

Otherwise I think within a Generation or two black Germans will be a common thing even in Germany proper.

BTW did you know that even the Bundesrepublik did pay benefits for the former Askaris - they were well remembered asvaluable allies in WWI...

Yes, I saw they paid them after WW2. They also had significant numbers of black officers prewar.

I am not sure the blacks will be moving to Europe. With mechanizations of farming and much cheaper to retire, I would think the black/white mixing will happen more in Angola and Kamerun.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Serbia ITTL will likely be partitioned among the "resettlers". My guess is that Bulgaria gets the largest part. Kosovo might end up in Albania. Montenegro will either be annexed to AH or become a vassal state.

What about Romania? Have they already joined the war? If so, I still think AH annexing them and Bulgaria getting Dobrudja is likely. At the very least, we'll see them partitioned into two vassal states: Wallachia and Moldavia (Northern Romania ITTL plus Bessarabia).

Romania is pro-CP right now.

Where do you expect to get the resettlers from? Most warring countries have flat to declining population, and all of them have declining working age populations. I have looked at it a bunch of ways, but barring true, involuntary ethnic cleansing, where would anyone get the 2 million people from?

Armenia - Looks too bad.

Greeks in Ottomans - Why open that can of worms?

Jews - Thought about Jewish homeland, and some refugees would be in places like Belgrade, but A-H needs the reliable supporters for the coming Dual Monarchy issues.

A-H - Will not do to own citizens.

Poles- Have own state

After these groups, we would be down to some crazy ideas, like forcing Volga Germans, Annex parts of France and ship Frenchmen to Serbia, people from Africa, Chinese, etc. Lets be honest, Serbia is not great land.


Probably. AH will then go for more annexations in the East, situated interestingly between greater Romania and the conquered Polish territories. And Bulgaria will get an even larger share of Serbia.

Romania has been promised lands to the east as far as Odessa by the CP. And the CP have too many troops for the Entente offer to look good.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
German Marines - Seebattalione

Some Questions:

1) Do they use naval ranks or army ranks?

2) Is it fair to assume the function like the US Marine Corp? Or would it be better to model them off the German Army, or some other military unit?

3) Are they the type of service to become independent? or more half independent like the US Marines? or should i just see them as sailors who happen to be infantry?
 
1) There is a thing called "Waffenstolz", roughly translated as "Pride in one's service arm". Nobody in the navy would even contemplate having his service besmirched by anything to do with the army *scoffs* The gall of even asking! Navy ranks, naturally. That's settled, then ;)

2) The basics for the Seebataillone should be appropriated from the army and a handful of young, energetic officers and senior NCOs be given the task of hammering out the peculiarities of fighting at sea and storming beaches. Especially coordinating NGS and the assaulting troops is going to be important.

3) Depending on their mission, operational successes and esprit de corps, I can see them becoming at least semi-independent, analogous to the USMC.
 
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1) There is a thing called "Waffenstolz", roughly translated as "Pride in one's service arm". Nobody in the navy would even contemplate having his service besmirched by anything to do with the army *scoffs* The gall of even asking! Navy ranks, naturally. That's settled, then ;)

2) The basics for the Seebataillone should be appropriated from the army and a handful of young, energetic officers and senior NCOs be given the task of hammering out the peculiarities of fighting at sea and storming beaches. Especially coordinating NGS and the assaulting troops is going to be important.

3) Depending on their mission, operational successes and esprit de corps, I can see them becoming at least semi-independent, analogous to the USMC.

would they be inspired by, or even have contacts with, either Dutch Marines or Royal Marines both of which at this point have been around for 250 years
 

BlondieBC

Banned
1) There is a thing called "Waffenstolz", roughly translated as "Pride in one's service arm". Nobody in the navy would even contemplate having his service besmirched by anything to do with the army *scoffs* The gall of even asking! Navy ranks, naturally. That's settled, then ;)

2) The basics for the Seebataillone should be appropriated from the army and a handful of young, energetic officers and senior NCOs be given the task of hammering out the peculiarities of fighting at sea and storming beaches. Especially coordinating NGS and the assaulting troops is going to be important.

3) Depending on their mission, operational successes and esprit de corps, I can see them becoming at least semi-independent, analogous to the USMC.

Well, the US Marines are quite proud, and they use Army ranks. So I had to ask.

NGS?? - What does that stand for? Naval Gunnery Support?

Mission is to guard major naval ports and do amphibious assaults of island and other coastal areas. They don't want to have to depend on the army to defend their ports, it did not work so well in Tsingtao. The concept is a port like Pearl Harbor/Douala would have all the troops under one commander, an Admiral. Planes, Zeppelins, Coastal Artillery, ground troops, ships, minefields, etc.

So it sounds like start them out as sailors, and if successful, their attitude could evolve towards US Marines.

would they be inspired by, or even have contacts with, either Dutch Marines or Royal Marines both of which at this point have been around for 250 years

There are two sets. The Marines in Germany which are doing what they did IOTL, more or less. I have looked at various amphibious assaults in the North Sea, but they look like suicide missions.

The Marines in Douala are about to become more active. They navy has been a part of more than 10 landings, and with the expansion of the West African Army to handle coastal security, the marines now have enough size to conduct serious amphibious assaults. So the units involved would not have contact with the Royal Marines or the Dutch Marines.
 
I served in the Navy for 15 years, I am slightly *ahem* biased :D

Using existing Naval Infantry units as blueprints would make sense, I think...

NGS means naval gunfire support, yes...
 
Keeping Italy neutral might really be the best option?

I didn't want to restart the discussion - I've been convinced already the last time. Italy must remain neutral until the war goes heavily in teh CP direction.

Then, as a last knock-down blow, Italy could join for the last 1 or 2 months of the war, when Britain is much less able to set up a blockade and France needs just some mroe bad news to break. Then - and only then - using stockpiled coal and improved transportation nets (some may go through Switzerland, parts may go over the Adriatic - not enough to fill the need, but to lengthen the time stockpiles work) and using the fact that Britain should be barely able to blockade any more, Italy can send some troops into the Alps to knock out the French. Once France asks for an armistice, the war is over.

Romania is pro-CP right now.

OK then. How long until they join the war? Surely they won't get territories without joining?

In any case, this leaves AH with Hapsburg Poland and new conquests in Ukraine between Poland and Romania as the visible gains. That will look ugly on a map...:p

The end of Serbia and Russia as a threat will however be mroe important.

Where do you expect to get the resettlers from?

Well, Germany won't have much settlers as we already discussed - but I think AH would find quite some people from backward rural regions that would happily accept free land. Same for Bulgaria.

Another idea is that AH repeats its policy with the Poles and expells all Serbs to the Bulgarian lands - not necessarily into former Serbia, though, but distributed among the Bulgarian population to guarantee integration.

In any case, though, it's less about what we think but about what the "locals" think. The Kaiser thinks he'll get the Vistula triangle and Traken-Memelland germanized - and he's wrong. It's not that far fetched to think that AH or Bulgaria have similar ideas.

At the end, though, ITTL all empty lands will be filled with refugees from the East: Jews, other minorities, people fleeing from whatever chaos ensues when Russia breaks.

Most warring countries have flat to declining population, and all of them have declining working age populations.

Where do you have those numbers from? AFAIK, the German population was growing quickly before the war, AH and Bulgaria are even more rural, thus should grow even quicker - at least as soon as industrialization spreads. If you look at other European countries, population growth continued for decades?
 
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Well, Germany won't have much settlers as we already discussed - but I think AH would find quite some people from backward rural regions that would happily accept free land. Same for Bulgaria.

Ironically, the majority of such migrations in AH lands are likely to be rural Hungarians. The aristocracy remained the primary land-owners in the country (IIRC, owning something around 80 - 90 % of land) right up until the end of WWII or thereabouts, with most peasants basically being serfs on aristocrat lands. Free land? They'd be all over it the moment someone told them of the opportunity.

Guess that means one more thing for Budapest to bitch about in the Empire.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I didn't want to restart the discussion - I've been convinced already the last time. Italy must remain neutral until the war goes heavily in teh CP direction.

Then, as a last knock-down blow, Italy could join for the last 1 or 2 months of the war, when Britain is much less able to set up a blockade and France needs just some mroe bad news to break. Then - and only then - using stockpiled coal and improved transportation nets (some may go through Switzerland, parts may go over the Adriatic - not enough to fill the need, but to lengthen the time stockpiles work) and using the fact that Britain should be barely able to blockade any more, Italy can send some troops into the Alps to knock out the French. Once France asks for an armistice, the war is over.

I have toyed with the idea. But basically Italy joining makes sense if Italy can break the French lines in the south or control the Med. The terrain is horrible in southern France to attack. And the Italy + A-H dreadnoughts are about 9 ships. Basically, if you are winning, why try some crazy idea that could backfire. Also, 1917 is push east, so Italy will not be asked to join the war unless Russia is knocked out.

OK then. How long until they join the war? Surely they won't get territories without joining?

Either the Spring offensive 1917, or never. They will get the territories if the CP take them. Now without Romania in the war, it is a lot less likely Odessa falls. I just have not worked up the battle plan, it looks bigger than the 1941 attack, so it is a lot of work.

In any case, this leaves AH with Hapsburg Poland and new conquests in Ukraine between Poland and Romania as the visible gains. That will look ugly on a map...:p

Not ugly, unless you consider straight lines ugly. You can always tell when an American draws on a map. ;)

Well, Germany won't have much settlers as we already discussed - but I think AH would find quite some people from backward rural regions that would happily accept free land. Same for Bulgaria.

Another idea is that AH repeats its policy with the Poles and expells all Serbs to the Bulgarian lands - not necessarily into former Serbia, though, but distributed among the Bulgarian population to guarantee integration.

A-H is not expelling Poles, the Poles are getting free land in Poland along with subsidies. Small, but important difference long-term compared to using a bayonet. I think you are vastly underestimating the loss of not just life, but men of working age in WW1. I will link some sources below.

In any case, though, it's less about what we think but about what the "locals" think. The Kaiser thinks he'll get the Vistula triangle and Traken-Memelland germanized - and he's wrong. It's not that far fetched to think that AH or Bulgaria have similar ideas.

At the end, though, ITTL all empty lands will be filled with refugees from the East: Jews, other minorities, people fleeing from whatever chaos ensues when Russia breaks.

Sure, if you mean by 1960, it will fill up. If I don't do a second war. The CP has no intention of taking Russian refugees. They will be turned back with bayonets. Remember a few things. Poland and Russia are about to do the take no prisoner warfare. No POW, no Russian civilian prisoners. The Tsar issue the "shot Polish CP soldiers as traitors has consequences. Russia deported/mistreated Galicia males, especially Jews. Russia burned down most of Poland, and little of East Prussia. Russia refugees simply not be accepted. It will not be as brutal as WW2, but the Poland/Russia issue will be much harsher than anything seen in OTL in Europe.

Where do you have those numbers from? AFAIK, the German population was growing quickly before the war, AH and Bulgaria are even more rural, thus should grow even quicker - at least as soon as industrialization spreads. If you look at other European countries, population growth continued for decades?

No sex, no babies. It is not just deaths, it is children never born.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany This link you have to hit show.

Some years, Germany is short one million births from prewar levels. France is down 400K. Other countries are going to have similar numbers. If the great war had been avoided, there would be white majority countries in Africa, and a lot of white plurality, that is whites outnumber any single black language group.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Ironically, the majority of such migrations in AH lands are likely to be rural Hungarians. The aristocracy remained the primary land-owners in the country (IIRC, owning something around 80 - 90 % of land) right up until the end of WWII or thereabouts, with most peasants basically being serfs on aristocrat lands. Free land? They'd be all over it the moment someone told them of the opportunity.

Guess that means one more thing for Budapest to bitch about in the Empire.

Yep, a good point.

I have not highlighted it, but by the Polish nobles moving to Poland and taking new titles, Austria but not Hungary is doing some long needed land reform. When the big estates in Austria are traded for big estates in Poland (Russian nobles losing land), the Austrians are breaking them up into smaller holdings to try to boost food production. Hungary is being its normal short sighted self.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
November 26, 1916 - A Day in the Life of the War, part 2.

Ascension Island: Colonel Marwitz surveys the Island from the top of the deceptively name Green Mountain. Before the locals were a all sent to internment camps in Kamerun, he learned the island was greener before the goats were introduced. Marwtiz has had his soldiers shoot the goats and other grazing animals for meat, and had seeds brought in to try to revegitate the Island to provide both shade for the troops and cover if they are attacked.

When he first arrive a year ago, he command mere battalion of men, some 15cm naval guns, and few minefields. After the earlier heavy bombardment by the Royal Navy that destroyed most of the building on the island and completely destroyed the port, a British counter invasion was expected. He had clear orders to hold out as long as possible, then surrender when he ran out of ammo. No reinforcements would be sent. His men were hurriedly building bunkers in the peaks. The invasion never came, and it has been 5 months since the last night bombardment by Entente surface ships. The bunker complex is complete, and can hold over 2000 men along with 6 months of supplies. On the regular supply runs by UM U-boats and an occasional fast freighter, his forces has been built up to a full regiment and he has a 3 months stockpile of food and enough ammo for a month. A small airfield is now operational to the SSW with 10 fighters and 20 torpedo planes. He has not received the requested additional mines or naval artillery, but he has been assure that if he attacked, he will priority support from the West African command. Ascension Island is to be one of the refueling bases of the post war German Navy.

Kinshasa: Charles Tombeur is commanding the Entente forces from his hospital bed recovering from Yellow fever. In the first months of the war, he received regular supply ships, modest reinforcements, and even had squadron of predreadnoughts defending the mouth of the Congo River. As the naval war deteriorated and the convoy system implementation, the naval support was slowly withdrawn. His effective combat strength peaked at 20,000, but over a year without regular supplies combined with diseases, and constant skirmishes up and down the Ubangi River have reduced his forces to under 7000 men who are low on equipment and ammunition. Only his unused naval artillery is well supplied with ammunition. Of his original 20,000 men, 13,000 have died from disease or accident and 3000 have died from combat. His total military losses exceed 32,000, and the losses to the conscripted civilian porters is easily two or three times higher than deaths to combat forces. Only the strategic depth of the Congo combined with horrible German logistics has kept his forces in the war.

Bania, Ubangi River: Major General Douala-Bell, commander of the 1st WA Division is preparing the 1917 Congo War Plan with the help of a complete battalion command staff sent from Germany. While the logistical and railroad tables for Europe do not work for Africa, the process of creating new tables for Africa combined with staff officers with formal military training are invaluable. The plan calls for a 4 division main push down the Congo along with a marine division landing near Banana. After the lower Congo is capture, the forces will then attack the upper Congo towards Lake Tanganyika.

Despite annual losses to disease of upwards of 50%, fresh recruits from Kamerun has kept his division strength near 15,000 men and 30,000 porters. Ammunition supplies are adequate, allow a slow push down the Congo. Weakness due to disease, lack of medical staffs with the forward units, and the long distances from the front line to the primitive hospitals make every minor wound, injury or snake bite a life threatening event. His total combat deaths are 28,000 soldiers, and 75,000 porters have died.

Bioki Island: A division size landing is being performed by the 1st WA Marine division. Fifty LCM carried by 10 specially designed troop transports being tested in their first major exercise. Each ship carries 500 soldiers and 5 LCM. The remaining 5000 men and extra supplies are being carried on 10 additional freighters. The fleet is being escorted by 25 torpedo boats of the Type 1914, 1915, and 1916, 2 carriers, and 2 Zeppelins.

LCM:
Weight: 20 tons
Cargo: 9 tons. 100 men or 13 horses.
Speed: 6 knots.
Size: 15M long X 3.5M wide X Draft of under 1 meter.
5 per transport ship.


Sao Tome: The few coastal guns and regular artillery have long since been silenced by the almost daily attacks by surface ships, U-boats, Zeppelins, and air planes using Portuguese forces as testing range. Today, the bomber forces from Santo Antonio are using 50 KG bombs to attack suspected infantry positions. Zeppelins have conducted over 250 tests with wire guided gliding bombs with weapon system weights of up to 2500 KG and 1500KG explosive warheads to various levels of success. Generally speaking, the Zeppelins can hit a large, stationary target such as a building or naval artillery bunker half the time. The land based bunker buster is being put into production, and details plans are traveling to Germany by UM U-boat. The main problems have to do with quality control and moving targets such as ships. A practical, combat ready aerial torpedo is still in the design stage.

Togoland: Land combat operations have stopped as the Germans stop their advance, and the Entente digs in around Accra. Today, the only offensive German operation is a 13 seaplane raid on the docks of Accra using 10KG and 50KG bombs.

Torpedo Boats: http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/torpedoboats/index.html

LCM Germany design, roughly: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/lc.jpg

Major General Douala-Bell http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Douala-Bell

How useful do the readers find these day in the life posts? The are quite time consuming to write, but they appear to be quite need, at least to me.
 
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I have toyed with the idea. But basically Italy joining makes sense if Italy can break the French lines in the south or control the Med. The terrain is horrible in southern France to attack. And the Italy + A-H dreadnoughts are about 9 ships. Basically, if you are winning, why try some crazy idea that could backfire. Also, 1917 is push east, so Italy will not be asked to join the war unless Russia is knocked out.

Even if Italy doesn't break through, the French have to send additional men they'd need more in the North.

In any case, I fully agree that Italy would be convinced not to join the CP before Russia is out if they had the idea. Thus it's a 1918 question, if at all.

Either the Spring offensive 1917, or never.

Thanks for clearing that out.

Not ugly, unless you consider straight lines ugly. You can always tell when an American draws on a map. ;)

I'd indeed consider straight lines in Europe ugly...:D

I think you are vastly underestimating the loss of not just life, but men of working age in WW1. I will link some sources below.

OK, misunderstanding. I thought you were referring to pre-war demographic developments.

Of course demographic losses due to the war will be tremendous - although probably nobody so far really has the big picture. French demographic losses might do more to cripple France than German demands.

As Keb points out, though, there might still be people that are interested in taking free land, even though that free land will not reach pre-war population densities.

Agricultural workers in Germany would aim for the cities, not for the new lands, but in AH a higher number might go for new lands. Same for Bulgaria.

The CP has no intention of taking Russian refugees. They will be turned back with bayonets. Remember a few things. Poland and Russia are about to do the take no prisoner warfare. No POW, no Russian civilian prisoners. The Tsar issue the "shot Polish CP soldiers as traitors has consequences. Russia deported/mistreated Galicia males, especially Jews. Russia burned down most of Poland, and little of East Prussia. Russia refugees simply not be accepted. It will not be as brutal as WW2, but the Poland/Russia issue will be much harsher than anything seen in OTL in Europe.
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Well, Germany has no intention to get large numbers of Black voters of Jewish majority states either...

My guess is that after the war, Russia will descend into chaos. The first group to suffer from that will be Jews. But then others could arrive. I wouldn't rule out the CP accepting refugees from a possible Russian civil war, or Ukrainians/Tatars/... fleeing from opression, or moderates fleeing from radical dictatorships or cossack groups fleeing persecution.

Stopping these with bajonets is possible during the war - but then only the first wave should come, hence the Jews. It's after the war that I expect more refugees. And more democratic CPs will have problems turning back civilians by threat of violence after the war.

All will depend on what you do with Russia after you kick them out of the war. So it's probably best to await the updates of 1917 to discuss this further.
 
Some Questions:

1) Do they use naval ranks or army ranks?

Army ranks.
See for example here:
http://www.marine-infanterie.de/html/3_7_2.html
(in German)
(A list of the commanders of the II. Seebataillon, always with the rank of a major.)

If the German Wikipedia is to be believed:
- Officers are drawn from the army (and usually return to the army after a few years. Seeing Lettow-Vorbeck as commander of the II. Seebataillon tends to confirm this.).
- NCOs are partly drawn from the army and partly from the navy.
- Privates are drawn from the population (volunteers, draftees?)

2) Is it fair to assume the function like the US Marine Corp? Or would it be better to model them off the German Army, or some other military unit?

They mainly had 3 tasks in our TL:
- Till 1895 detachments of marines served on board of German warships. Kind of like the Royal Marines?
- Defense of major German naval bases (mainly the III. Seebataillon in Tsingtao)
- A quick reaction force (I. and II. Seebataillon) that could be deployed worldwide to trouble spots (revolts in German colonies, China etc.)

I´d call them light infantry with some ship experience. :)
A Seebataillon seems to have consisted of:
- 4 rifle companies
- 1 engineer company
- 1 machine gun company.
And in case of the III. Seebataillon in Tsingtao with an additional marine artillery detachment and an additional marine cavalry company (5th. company).

And it seems they - unlike German army units - had no experience / training in large unit (division or so) maneuvers before WW1.

So maybe US marines but without heavy weapons yet?

3) Are they the type of service to become independent? or more half independent like the US Marines? or should i just see them as sailors who happen to be infantry?

They seem to have been half independent in our TL already. Kaiser Wilhelm II liked them. :)
Officially they were part of the navy and under the command of the naval station Baltic Sea (Kiel). However commands from there since 1889 first went to the "Inspectorate of the Marines" and from there to individual units.

Given their role here in this TL (Cameroon, East Africa) I can easily see them as an independent service after the war. Or - while still formally under navy command - even more "half independent".
Both naval and army officers don´t seem to have the right training for them?

And I definitely see an enlargement after the war. At least to division size (or corps size?) with their own career paths for officers and NCOs. Plus integrated heavy weapon units. The war has shown that they´ll need them after all.
 
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