PC: King Cortes

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Bumping this to keep it as an idea. An explorer as an all-and-out king is an interesting concept: I wonder if you could do the same to Colombus, or John Cabot, or perhaps even some of the more priestly explorers... Setting up oneself as a pagan-style Pope or native God-King, perhaps?

Doubt it. Christianity, a syncretic form of Christianity combining Catholicism with the local religions of the native Mesoamericans, is what I see is going to be imposed by King Cortes. Though the Nahuatl language might end up surviving since it is spoken by the overwhelming majority of the population. Spanish might end up just being spoken by the court.

 

[Cicero the Younger]

I think it's an intriguing concept, and if anyone could do it, I agree that Cortes could have. I wonder what kind of precedent this would set for future conquerors. Would Pizarro try the same thing in Peru, and could he have succeeded? Would the New World fill up with other conquerors eager to carve out kingdoms for themselves? Or would Spain put a reactionary set of stricter controls on future incursions to prevent such a thing from happening again? Might they even end up with less of a New World presence out of concern for the inspiration he might be to other explorers and viceroys? Could this, ironically, spare the Inca from conquest because King Carlos decides it's less of a risk to trade with them than it would be to allow them to be conquered by another would-be turncoat and lost to the empire?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I think it's an intriguing concept, and if anyone could do it, I agree that Cortes could have. I wonder what kind of precedent this would set for future conquerors. Would Pizarro try the same thing in Peru, and could he have succeeded? Would the New World fill up with other conquerors eager to carve out kingdoms for themselves? Or would Spain put a reactionary set of stricter controls on future incursions to prevent such a thing from happening again? Might they even end up with less of a New World presence out of concern for the inspiration he might be to other explorers and viceroys? Could this, ironically, spare the Inca from conquest because King Carlos decides it's less of a risk to trade with them than it would be to allow them to be conquered by another would-be turncoat and lost to the empire?

Spain would not be as accommodating to autonomous expeditions should Cortes and many other conquistadors attempt to carve out their own dominions.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Or would Spain put a reactionary set of stricter controls on future incursions to prevent such a thing from happening again? Might they even end up with less of a New World presence out of concern for the inspiration he might be to other explorers and viceroys?

Spain would not be as accommodating to autonomous expeditions should Cortes and many other conquistadors attempt to carve out their own dominions.

This seems about right to me.

Could this, ironically, spare the Inca from conquest because King Carlos decides it's less of a risk to trade with them than it would be to allow them to be conquered by another would-be turncoat and lost to the empire?

I don't know, something tells me Cortes won't be able to resist himself. I mean this is a guy who was making plans early as 1522 for expeditions -- of conquest, IIANM -- to China(!)

I'm also wondering, assuming Cortes is still successful with the Tascarans, how the Pueblo people, like the Mogollon, are going to deal with this growing power to the south -- or for that matter, any native peoples who don't fall into Cortes' grasp, especially without the onslaught of Spanish. Thoughts?

 

[Cicero the Younger]

I don't know, something tells me Cortes won't be able to resist himself. I mean this is a guy who was making plans early as 1522 for expeditions -- of conquest, IIANM -- to China(!)

I guess it depends on whether or not he'd be smart enough to consolidate his new kingdom and ensure its own stability. If he starts sending his own expeditions to Peru, let alone China, he's liable to overextend himself and live to see his kingdom collapse. After all, he doesn't have the backing and resources of Spain itself to do on his own what the Spanish Empire as a whole did or could have done. His kingdom will collapse pretty quickly if he gets too ambitious too soon.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

I guess it depends on whether or not he'd be smart enough to consolidate his new kingdom and ensure its own stability. If he starts sending his own expeditions to Peru, let alone China, he's liable to overextend himself and live to see his kingdom collapse. After all, he doesn't have the backing and resources of Spain itself to do on his own what the Spanish Empire as a whole did or could have done. His kingdom will collapse pretty quickly if he gets too ambitious too soon.

OK, China may be a little ASB -- now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Cortes was talking about using Mexico as a base for Spain to send expeditions across the sea.

But he may still take a stab at the Incas. Resources wise I think after the Fall of Tenochtitlan, Cortes had something like 1,400 Spanish soldiers under his command, and more arriving, and hundreds of thousands of native allies. I can see him sending down an expedition of some 100 or so men (Pizarro had 168 OTL) without feeling too pinched, especially if he could see a nice payoff.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

It would be terribly ironic to have Spain send in an expeditionary force of its own to prevent Cortes from conquering the Inca.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

It would be terribly ironic to have Spain send in an expeditionary force of its own to prevent Cortes from conquering the Inca.

I've got a feeling...

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Now it would be amazing if someone did a time-line on this.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Now it would be amazing if someone did a time-line on this.

Tempting... I've just got so many TL ideas right now, it's hard for me to know where to start

Wouldn't object if someone else took it up, though

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Tempting... I've just got so many TL ideas right now, it's hard for me to know where to start

Wouldn't object if someone else took it up, though

Oh true that. True that. But back to topic, wouldn't Cortes' new dominion be approximately more or less the same territories as the Aztec empire. I doubt the empire would be that expansive.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

But back to topic, wouldn't Cortes' new dominion be approximately more or less the same territories as the Aztec empire. I doubt the empire would be that expansive.

Well, OTL, he made incursions south into Central America, and a somewhat harder one against the Tascarans, with great success -- I don't think he'd settle for anything less than a realm with several ports in both the Atlantic and Pacific.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Well, OTL, he made incursions south into Central America, and a somewhat harder one against the Tascarans, with great success -- I don't think he'd settle for anything less than a realm with several ports in both the Atlantic and Pacific.

Of course to launch that incredibly ASB expedition to China.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Of course to launch that incredibly ASB expedition to China.

Touche.*

But seriously, it would more likely be for trade, and at most ambitious leaving an opening for his descendants to expand.

More than anything though, it would be to make sure the Spanish won't be able to isolate him so easily -- while they have much naval presence in the Caribbean, the Pacific ports would allow Cortesia to have trading routes should their leader's former nation think of trying a blockade.

*It's way off topic, but I find myself wishing there was an emotican with this look

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Of course he would have his men teach the native population how to build these ships and create a navy to defend Cortesia's shores.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Of course he would have his men teach the native population how to build these ships and create a navy to defend Cortesia's shores

Naturellement -- and as Cortes showed at the Siege of Tenochtitlan, his men were more than capable of pulling mass production off.

 

[Polish Eagle]

OK, China may be a little ASB -- now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Cortes was talking about using Mexico as a base for Spain to send expeditions across the sea.

But he may still take a stab at the Incas. Resources wise I think after the Fall of Tenochtitlan, Cortes had something like 1,400 Spanish soldiers under his command, and more arriving, and hundreds of thousands of native allies. I can see him sending down an expedition of some 100 or so men (Pizarro had 168 OTL) without feeling too pinched, especially if he could see a nice payoff.

Pizzaro was a cousin of Cortes, I think.

Anyway, even if Cortes sends a force against the Incas, could he control them after the Conquest? I mean, he'd have nothing close to the Navy and Army of Spain, so any force going into Peru would probably be on its own after they shove off.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

I mean, he'd have nothing close to the Navy and Army of Spain, so any force going into Peru would probably be on its own after they shove off.

On the naval advantage, Spain took its time establishing a fleet in the Pacific in OTL, and even then they were open prey (see Francis Drake in later decades). I think it looks very plausible for Cortesia to establish enough of a naval presence in the Pacific that Spain has a hard time establishing themselves there, and so wouldn't be able to hassle a Cortesian Pizzaro (OTL Pizarro?) too much.

That said...

Even if Cortes sends a force against the Incas, could he control them after the Conquest?

He'd have a tough time of it, to say the least.

 

[Polish Eagle]

On the naval advantage, Spain took its time establishing a fleet in the Pacific in OTL, and even then they were open prey (see Francis Drake in later decades). I think it looks very plausible for Cortesia to establish enough of a naval presence in the Pacific that Spain has a hard time establishing themselves there, and so wouldn't be able to hassle a Cortesian Pizzaro (OTL Pizarro?) too much.

That said...



He'd have a tough time of it, to say the least.

I meant that the bulk of Cortes's men and ships would be devoted to keeping the natives from revolting and keeping the Spanish away from his east coasts.

Though, assuming Cortes can get an Empire going as far as Panama or at least Nicaragua, might a successor of his attempt a slave-labor built canal? That would be interesting, a Nicaragua Canal in the 17th century.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I prefer a Cortesia that isn't a total wankage so territories more or less being the same as the old Aztec empire would be good enough. They would have to establish a government and all that wonderfully time-taxing stuff.