Operation Downfall: A Timeline

[Orville_third]

BTW, around the time of one bomb being dropped (I forget which one it was), a float plane from the USS North Carolina was able to rescue a downed pilot- in Tokyo Bay. Could we see battleship raids along the Japanese coasts? How about saboteur squads landing on Japanese soil?

 

[The Sandman]

Could we see battleship raids along the Japanese coasts?

Actually, those happened IOTL.

 

[Orville_third]

Actually, those happened IOTL.

Thanks! This is informative- and can be useful for the timeline!

 

[Jim Smitty]

The Russian in Mukden

September 3 1945
Mukden

Senior Lieutenant Adrik Ivanov of the NKVD was making sure his team was moving as fast as possible. From the way things were looking, by the end of the week this chemical plant would be back in the Soviet Union. He knew his team would be busy for the next few weeks in Mukden. They had already sent one plant back to Mother Russia. Plus he had guards set-up at other industrial plants threw out Mukden. His troops had entered Mukden six days ago, and only a day after the Red Army had taken the town. But his troops were only but a handful few who had not taken apart of the massive raping of the town’s women after the Red Town was in control of the town. He knew his troops would want to take apart of it sooner or later, so he had a few of his sergeants pick up ten or so ladies and they were being held so the other troops of the Red Army couldn’t get to them.

 

[Hyperion]

My next update will be covering the Soviets, I also to do plan updates for the British.


When nukes fall in TL you will know about it.


I could my planes screw up. Its been fixed.

Any other questions?

Does that include the bomb that would have been used in mid to late August?

Or was it decided not to use that bomb yet?

 

[Jim Smitty]

Does that include the bomb that would have been used in mid to late August?

Or was it decided not to use that bomb yet?

Eisenhower his the overall command in the Paifica now. He didn't believe you should destroy a enemy that was beating. But something will force his hand.

 

[Jim Smitty]

The British get a springboard

September 4 1945
Some were outside Port Dickson

Major Jack Churchill was a happy man again. He and a small group of commando were about ready to take part in a danger operation, the type of operation he loved. He had his claymore sword at his hip with a Sterling submachine gun at the ready. He looked at his men and saw that they were ready. He then looked at his watch, it would be about 5 hours before British and Indian troops would be hitting the beaches. He gave the order his team started to move.

A little over an hour later they were at the target. Major Churchill wished he could have used his bagpipes to signal the start of the attack, but this mission needed stealth. The suppresser made a whisper of the gunshot. His team move forward and pull the body into the shadows. At the end of the building the team stopped. Churchill looked around the bend to see a single Japanese soldier. He wanted to use his claymore sword but he knew stealth was still needed. Churchill wanted this to be a knife kill so he pulled out his Fairbairn-Sykes Dagger and slowly and quietly made his way up behind the Japanese soldier. In one quick motiving he grabbed the head of the Jap with his left hand, then the dagger move across the neck. Blood shot out of the neck as the body dropped to the ground. Again his team moved the body to the shadows.

Within a minute their target came in view. To their surprise there was no guard outside the officer’s barracks. They opened the door as quietly as they could. They entered the barracks and could hear the sounds of the Japanese officers sleeping. The team fanned out into a firing line. One everyone was on the line they open fire with their Sterlings. They emptied their magazines and quickly reloaded. They move fast to make sure they were all dead, which they were. They left the officer’s barracks looking for other targets. They found a few more Japanese soldiers, but none were about the rank corporal. After staying long then they sure have they planted a number of demo charges and set them on a one hour delay. They made their way back to the safe house.

As they reached the safe house they could hear the charges going off. They made sure no one saw them entered the safe house. Then they would try to get an hour of sleep before they started to move again.

Two hours later the first British troops started to hit the beaches. They were met with fire but it looked like these Japanese soldiers were leaderless, and were quickly push back. As the Japanese tried to withdraw to the south they were ambush by Major Churchill force. The Japanese had walked into a trap and were quickly mowed down by the fire coming from the British. The commando made their way to British lines. When they reached Port Dickson they found the British troops were just mopping up now. By the end of the day Port Dickson was in British hands and they plan to use it as a spring board to take Singapore back.

 

[Hyperion]

Eisenhower his the overall command in the Paifica now. He didn't believe you should destroy a enemy that was beating. But something will force his hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic...gasaki#Plans_for_more_atomic_attacks_on_Japan

The third bomb was ready for deployment on the first good weather day on or after the 17th or 18th of August. Eisenhower is not appointed to command until August 21st. He will not be able to arrive for probably a week, and still need probably a month to be brought up to speed on the Pacific War.

In OTL, Eisenhower didn't pay attention to the Pacific aside from what the President told him, or what he saw in the news. The same goes for MacArthur, Nimitz, and Halsey. Operations in Europe where news worthy, but didn't effect their military operations.

Likewise, MacArthur had no direct control of the Atomic bombs. Truman, Lesley Groves, and Colonel Paul Tibbets where the primary chain of command for deploying the bombs. Eisenhower, MacArthur, Halsey, and Nimitz where never briefed until after the bomb was first used, let alone put in operational control.

 

[CalBear]

September 3 1945
Mukden

Senior Lieutenant Adrik Ivanov of the NKVD was making sure his team was moving as fast as possible. From the way things were looking, by the end of the week this chemical plant would be back in the Soviet Union. He knew his team would be busy for the next few weeks in Mukden. They had already sent one plant back to Mother Russia. Plus he had guards set-up at other industrial plants threw out Mukden. His troops had entered Mukden six days ago, and only a day after the Red Army had taken the town. But his troops were only but a handful few who had not taken apart of the massive raping of the town’s women after the Red Town was in control of the town. He knew his troops would want to take apart of it sooner or later, so he had a few of his sergeants pick up ten or so ladies and they were being held so the other troops of the Red Army couldn’t get to them.

I don't think so. The behavior of the Red Army in the Far East was not at all similar to that found in Eastern Europe and Germany (particularly East Prussia) where the mass rape included concentration camp survivors and even liberated Russian slave laborers.

There would, undoubtedly have been sexual assaults, where ever you have combat troops mixing with foreign females civilians (or female civilians from their own country) you are going to have them, even among the "good guys", but not at the level you have described here. This sort of behavior is the result of troops who have lost all discipline (or have been encouraged by Political Officers to treat every German as less than human), and loss of discipline wasn't something that happened too often in the Red Army.

 

[usertron2020]

The Chinese would be seen as being "liberated." The behavior of Soviets towards civilians in areas OUTSIDE of ethnic German territory were likewise treated as such. Except when it came to wristwatches.

 

[PhilKearny]

In addition to the points CalBear raised, I think the scenario is not realistic for another reason.

The Soviets were trying to create an ally of the most populous nation in the world. After all, at this point the Soviets are working to install a Communist government in China. Such actions would by the Soviets presumably would drive the Chinese away from them, undermining indigenous support for the Soviet goal. If anything, he NKVD would be opposed to such behavior.

The mass rapes by Soviets against German women and others, while horrific, deplorable, and criminal, occurred in a context that at least was understandable. The Soviets had been fighting a war as brutal as can be imagined. Revenge and retribution were motivators and as CalBear notes, the Germans had demonized.

In this scenario there is understandable motivation and context. Here the victims, Chinese, have not been in conflict with the Soviets, and no cause for revenge or retribution existed for the Soviets to act so brutally. The scenario just assumes the assumes the all Soviet soldiers were subhuman raping and pillaging machines with no realistic background or motivation offered by the author to support this conclusion.

I don't think so. The behavior of the Red Army in the Far East was not at all similar to that found in Eastern Europe and Germany (particularly East Prussia) where the mass rape included concentration camp survivors and even liberated Russian slave laborers.

There would, undoubtedly have been sexual assaults, where ever you have combat troops mixing with foreign females civilians (or female civilians from their own country) you are going to have them, even among the "good guys", but not at the level you have described here. This sort of behavior is the result of troops who have lost all discipline (or have been encouraged by Political Officers to treat every German as less than human), and loss of discipline wasn't something that happened too often in the Red Army.

 

[Jim Smitty]

As to the Soviet Army actions in China, I didn't know if they would kind of behavior they would have so I quess. Thank you for letting me know, I will fix it lattle today or tomorrow.

As to the Atomic Bomb question, yes they have one or possible two bombs ready to go at this point, but they were being the topic of debate to use them once they were ready, or save them for one mass bombing.

 

[Swordman]

Jim:

Your writing style is much improved over that in your Flight 817 timeline. Congratulations are in order. I like the way you introduced Jack Churchill. In addiiton to the claymore, he also used a longbow while fighting with the British Expeditionary Force in France.
As for Flight 817, I certainly hope you intend to continue the timeline.

Mike Garrity

 

[Jim Smitty]

The Russian in Mukden/Edit

September 3 1945
Mukden

Senior Lieutenant Adrik Ivanov of the NKVD was making sure his team was moving as fast as possible. From the way things were looking, by the end of the week this chemical plant would be back in the Soviet Union. He knew his team would be busy for the next few weeks in Mukden. They had already sent one plant back to Mother Russia. Plus he had guards set-up at other industrial plants threw out Mukden. His troops had entered Mukden six days ago, and only a day after the Red Army had taken the town.

Lieutenant Ivanov had to remind his troops that this was not Germany. He knew line troops had been better behaved than Germany, but the military police still had their hands full. But one order was the same everything of value was to be sent back to Mother Russia.

 

[PMN1]

Eisenhower his the overall command in the Paifica now. He didn't believe you should destroy a enemy that was beating. But something will force his hand.

How about an enemy that refuses to acknowledge it was beaten?

IIRC, Eisenhower did say publicaly that the bombs shouldn't have been dropped but that was a few years later.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Sub Attacks

September 5 1945
USS Sea Owl SS-405 Somewhere in the Sea of Japan

Lt. Commander Edward L Beach Jr. was enjoying his first command. He knew there would be a Japanese convoy coming out of Pusan, and he wanted to sink something before the war ended. Then he heard his radar operator call out, “Contacts coming out of Pusan.”

“Take the boat down to periscope depth.” Commander Beach looked down at his charts than looks back up, “Bring us to a course of 273 ahead 1/3.”

About two hours later and one visual sighting later Commander Beach ordered the scope up. As he looked through the scope one of the Japanese destroyers caught his eye. “XO come here and tell me what you see.”

The XO step back after looking through the scope, “Skipper it looks like a four piper flying a Jap flag. Plus it looks she is one of only two destroyers escort this group.”

“That’s what I thought. Let sink her than turn our torps on the other, then open this convoy up.” After 15 minutes of getting an angle on the Japanese destroyer, “Fire tubes one and three. Low the scope and bring us into an attack angle on the second destroyer.”

After 75seconds run time the crew heard two explosions. They knew that their torps had ran straight and true. Commander Beach, “Up scope. Match bearings and shoot tubes two and four.” The crew could hear the sound of air rushing out of the sub. “Chief take her to 200 feet, down scope, all ahead flank.”

After a quick high speed run the Sea Owl was on the other side of the convoy and at periscope depth. Commander Beach was standing behind the scope, “Up scope.” As he looked through the scope he could see both Japanese destroyers would sink. Then he picked out his next target, a 5,000ton tanker. He locked the scope on the tanker, “Match bearings and fire tubes seven and eight.” After a second the crew could hear the sound rushing out of torpedoes tubes. “Chief take her deep and let’s clear the area, make the speed two knots.” As the Sea Owl was diving take could hear the sound of their torpedoes hitting the tanker. Then 30 seconds the crew heard a very large secondary explosion. Commander Beach wanted to press his attack by surfacing and taking a few more ships with his deck gun, but it would be daylight within a thirty minutes. Commander Beach didn’t want to get caught on the surface by a Jap ASW plane. But he knew he had sent two destroyers and a tanker to Davy Jones’ Locker. It was a good day.

 

[nerdknight01]

¡ Hi ! ¡ NICE NEW TIMELINE !.
Jim your writting´s style is better, (my born language is spanish, and i can see you writting is better, well done). About this timeline i have the feelings that the soviets if play sweet and nice (you know), how to say, maybe be obtain more power, resources and lands, and this is really ironic because USA be paying the price in death and blood for conquer Japan, but at same time are more weak against the soviet power, and because this situation the soviet empire maybe be more how to say, big, giantic, powerfully, with more lands in orient, and maybe in Europe.
In time USA it be victorious against Japan and this is the good news, but the bad news is how many soldiers be losing by death or wounded in the process, 200,000, 300,000, 400,000, etc.., and how at the end of the fight be Japan, in the worst scenario maybe and say, maybe how to say, there be not living survivors in Japan. And because this i have the feeling that the 50´s it be a more darker period in USA, ant the Soviet´s treat be more big because the loses of american soldiers, in any way, this is a nice timeline.
Peace and good luck.

 

[oldgringo2001]

Reality Check

There really was a coup attempt in Japan when Hirohito decided to surrender. Basically it failed because the Minister of War, General Anami, refused to support it. Richard Conroy wrote a pretty good AH novel, 1945, diverging with Anami deciding to support the coup.

It's a matter of taste, but I don't like MacArthur being removed by a random accident. The Downfall invasion plans were basically his babies. He should be allowed to perish as a result of his own work. Besides, Mac is so interesting, he should be allowed to cause at least a little bit more of the troubles he was so infamous for stirring up.

Anybody who posts about Mac should be required to read William Manchester's American Caesar.

A longer war with Japan would probably lead to a single, Communist Korea. China might have gone Communist faster with a delay in the flood of U.S. military surplus it got after the end of the war in Asia. France would still have tried to recover Indochina because it was a prestige thing, just as in OTL. But without the example of the successful defense of South Korea, US leaders might have been less pressured to directly intervene.

No Samsung. No Hyundais. No Kias. No M*A*S*H. Aside from the war damage, Japan wouldn't get the boost from supplying the Korean War it got in OTL. So maybe no Sony, no Panasonic, no Toyotas. We might still be driving Packards, programming computers with punchcards, and replacing burnt-out tubes in our 20-pound portable radios.

****

Edward L. Beach, Jr. was a real submarine commander. He later wrote the classic novel of submarine warfare Run Silent, Run Deep.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Subs and Unit 731

September 6 1945
I-400 and I-401 Kure Naval Yard

Both of the giant subs were getting ready to leave for points unknown. The officers of both subs then know what to make of the army officers that would be taking the trip with them. All they were told was they would being the war to an end. They were just waiting for the officers finish the hanger area before they would put to sea. The officers and the crew were taking this time to write letters to their families in case they didn’t make back.

The officers from Unit 731 were making sure the Bubonic Plague Bombs were not going anywhere. They knew it would be sometime before they would be in here again. After making sure they were not going anywhere they left the hanger and signal that the boats were ready to leave.

A little after 0200 hours both submarines left Kure Naval Yards. Thirty minutes after they had put out to sea they both began to dive to miss the US destroyers that were operation about 50 to 100 miles off the coast. They would only run on the surface at night. The officers of Unit 731 knew there would be no way that the Americans know what is coming.

 

[nerdknight01]

¡ Hi ! ¡ WHOA !.
I like this class of timelines, because are to real. In real life, some how to say, fact, sucess happen and the "good guys" are in real problems, or with high loses, and because that infamous japanese unit, i have the feeling that the invasion maybe it become a real nightmare..
And finnally, the "butterflies" for the comunism around the world it be Godzilla zide, you know.
Peace and good luck.