No Islam-Christian China?

[Yun-shuno]

There happened in the eastern part of Christianity to be this guy named Nestorius who for a variety of theological and political reasons to be declared a heretic. His doctrine however spread in Asia reaching China around the 8th century and was translated by the Chinese as the luminous religion.

My question is if for whatever reason there is no Islam. Will Christianity(or a form of it at least) make more substantial inroads in China that it did OTL? Could you have an emperor's wife converting perhaps and then she pressures her husband to convert. Thus leading to mass conversion amongst the lower classes?

Grand consequences once contact established between the Europeans and the Chinese? A Christendom stretching across Eurasia? Or crusades against heretical Monophysite nestorians?

 

[wtw]

Yes much of Central Asia became a Neostorian homeland until Islam swept through, Eastern Christianity will become a major factor

 

[fi11222]

There happened in the eastern part of Christianity to be this guy named Nestorius who for a variety of theological and political reasons to be declared a heretic. His doctrine however spread in Asia reaching China around the 8th century and was translated by the Chinese as the luminous religion.

My question is if for whatever reason there is no Islam. Will Christianity(or a form of it at least) make more substantial inroads in China that it did OTL? Could you have an emperor's wife converting perhaps and then she pressures her husband to convert. Thus leading to mass conversion amongst the lower classes?

Grand consequences once contact established between the Europeans and the Chinese? A Christendom stretching across Eurasia? Or crusades against heretical Monophysite nestorians?

This is one of the main subjects in this thread.

 

[Beedok]

I'm not sure it would have a reason to be much more successful than Islam was in China. In fact, unless it can match Islam's spread through India and the East Indies (which I don't think it would manage) there'd be less interaction with China's maritime portions and likely less overall influence on China.

 

[Practical Lobster]

I find it odd how often people assume that absent a dar al-islam, the Christian faith in some variant would dominate the whole world.

I'm by no means convinced Christianity would become the dominant religion of the Iranian plateau and Central Asia, let alone China. Obviously it's possible, but I see no reason to assume that it would.

More probably it would remain a minority religion as in OTL. While it's hard to predict, I just don't see Christianity having the right sort of appeal for the cultural context. While a no Islam timeline means a stronger and likely more vibrant near east Christianity, I think you'd be hard pressed to get it much further than that.

 

[Blackfox5]

Possible, but unlikely. If we assume Nestorian Christianity in Central Asia becomes dominant enough that Nestorian Christianity has a good chance for proselytization in China, Christianity still has to compete with Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. Buddhism for many centuries was seen as a foreign religion that was un-Chinese. Christianity would fall into the same group and probably compete against the exact same people who found Buddhism more satisfying than the traditional Chinese faiths. So there is going to be strong opposition to the spread of Christianity. I think 10-25% of the population would be its most likely maximum spread in China unless we start assigning butterflies to achieve unlikely outcomes.

 

[DominusNovus]

I find it odd how often people assume that absent a dar al-islam, the Christian faith in some variant would dominate the whole world.

I'm by no means convinced Christianity would become the dominant religion of the Iranian plateau and Central Asia, let alone China. Obviously it's possible, but I see no reason to assume that it would.

More probably it would remain a minority religion as in OTL. While it's hard to predict, I just don't see Christianity having the right sort of appeal for the cultural context. While a no Islam timeline means a stronger and likely more vibrant near east Christianity, I think you'd be hard pressed to get it much further than that.

Christianity and Islam are the two most prolific proselytzing religions in our history. It stands the reason that a loss for one is a gain for the other.

 

[Practical Lobster]

Christianity and Islam are the two most prolific proselytzing religions in our history. It stands the reason that a loss for one is a gain for the other.

I never said it wouldn't gain. Christianity would retain pre-eminence in North Africa and the Fertile Crescent barring some major butterflies (such as the sort I use in my timeline to make the whole area a crazy melting pot of pagan-buddhism). I'm just skeptical Christianity would inevitably be able to achieve some of the things Islam did in OTL. I've never seen much plausible evidence that Christianity was anything more than a minority faith primarily practiced by merchants. I just don't see it attaining too more success than in our timeline in Central Asia without a series of major changes beyond just "no Islam".

 

[DominusNovus]

I never said it wouldn't gain. Christianity would retain pre-eminence in North Africa and the Fertile Crescent barring some major butterflies (such as the sort I use in my timeline to make the whole area a crazy melting pot of pagan-buddhism). I'm just skeptical Christianity would inevitably be able to achieve some of the things Islam did in OTL. I've never seen much plausible evidence that Christianity was anything more than a minority faith primarily practiced by merchants. I just don't see it attaining too more success than in our timeline in Central Asia without a series of major changes beyond just "no Islam".

There were plenty of steppe tribes that had christians among their upper echelons, as well as tribes that converted in total.

 

[Deleted member 93645]

Christianity couldn't really be syncretized with Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism, so that would limit its spread significantly.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

Christianity and Islam are the two most prolific proselytzing religions in our history. It stands the reason that a loss for one is a gain for the other.

Not necessarily, likely they split along various frivolous theological issues like Islam did the same areas or what the Christians did before Islam.

Also, do not forget that just having Christianity within the Arabs does not change the culture of the Arabs just as Islam hadn't changed the Pashtun.

 

[Beedok]

Christianity and Islam are the two most prolific proselytzing religions in our history. It stands the reason that a loss for one is a gain for the other.

Or without an outside threat to better unify it Christianities tendency for infighting and schisms sees it do far worse than OTL.

 

[Mirza Khan]

Yes much of Central Asia became a Neostorian homeland until Islam swept through, Eastern Christianity will become a major factor

Not necessarily. Pre-Islamic Central Asia arguably had four major religions-Zorastrianism, Nestorian Christianity, Buddhism, and Manichaenism. The last three were all proselytizing, missionary religions, and without Islam I think it likely that one would have eventually become dominant-but which one depends on the essentially random vagaries of history. You could construct perfectly plausible No Islam TL's where Central Asia becomes >75% Manichean, Nestorian, or Buddhist.

And of course, none of this would necessarily have any bearing on China. See OTL, where China is stubbornly non-Muslim despite Islam being dominant in Central Asia for the past 1300 years.