Muslim Russia

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Hannibal.Caesar, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. Hannibal.Caesar Well-Known Member

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    Not too sure how ASB this is, and I'm sure I'm not the first one to post a thread on this topic, but how would history have changed if Russia (or at least a significant portion of it) was Muslim? Perhaps more of the Cumans or Bulgars decided to convert to Islam, enough to significantly change the religious make-up of a western Rus state.

    My knowledge of early Russian history is a bit lax, so I'm not too sure what the POD could be for this. It just seems like a really intriguing idea to me for some reason.
     
  2. Promethean Koning van Lotharingen

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    well how are they converted?

    the part that could be converted would probably be Kiev and its empire.

    in which time is this thread?
     
  3. Doctor Haider Member

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    It is amazing but there IS the POD not only for Muslim Russia but for Judaic Russia too!!

    When Great Prince Vladimir looked for a new religion for the Rus' he at first attempted to reform paganism creating the hierarchy of gods. When this attempt failed Vladimir announced that he want to adopt one of existing religions and ready to hear proposals from all confessions.

    He recieved several delegations from heads of different confessions and in turn sent his emmissaries to Rome (catholicism), Constantinople (orthodox church), to Khazaria (judaism) and to Bulgars (Islam).

    The ortodox christianity from Byzantine Empire was selected but other alternatives were examined as well.

    So we have several PODs here:

    1. Russia stays pagan;
    2. Russia adopts catholicism (as Poland), Vladimir recieves his crown from the hands of Pope and becomes the King of Rus';
    3. Russia adopts Judaism from Khazaria that in this time (the end of 10th century) was relatively influental power controlling valuable trade routes.
    4. Russia adopts Islam from its neigbours, Bulgars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
     
  4. Promethean Koning van Lotharingen

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    since the thread starter is interested in a muslim russia i say 4
     
  5. Philip One L only

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    Politics played a large role in this. Kiev had extensive trade ties with Constantinople.
     
  6. Promethean Koning van Lotharingen

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    if you let constantinople being taken by the turks the islam would have more influence
     
  7. Ace Venom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but Russia didn't roll over and become Muslim just because the Ottoman Turks overran the Balkans. Who's to say it would be any different if the Seljuks did it? Kiev would probably become the new center for Orthodoxy rather than a jumping point for Islam.
     
  8. Philip One L only

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    I think he was suggesting that Constantinople fall before the conversion of Kiev.
     
  9. Ran Exilis Minister of Moral Corruption

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    That wouldn't work - the Russians were Christianized during the late 10th century, and the Turks weren't even close to Constantinople until years after the Battle of Mantzikert in 1071.

    By the time the Turks could make the earliest possible attempt at attacking Constantinople, the Russians would have been Christian for decades.
     
  10. Demosthenes Tu delenda est

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    I think one or two are the most realistic PODs on this question.
     
  11. fortyseven Mastermind

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    Muslims could conquer Constantinople the first time in the 7th century or the second time in the 8th Century.
     
  12. Analytical Engine Make America British Again!

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    Ok, how?

    Constantinople had Huge Walls(!) to contend with. :p
     
  13. Ran Exilis Minister of Moral Corruption

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    As Analytical Engine already pointed out; that's a pretty big stretch.

    Muslims could attack Constantinople during the 7th and 8th centuries - wether they could actually conquer it is an entirely different question.

    What the Arabs had during the 7th and 8th century was still nothing compared to what the Ottomans had during the 15th century, and even the Ottomans only just managed to capture the remnants of Constantinople.

    And aside from the technological superiority of the 15th century Ottoman forces over the 7th and 8th century Arab forces; the Ottomans controlled much of western Anatolia, the Balkans and the Greek lands north of Morea - when the Arabs invaded, the only significant Arab presence in Europe and Asia minor were the Arab armies that were besieging Constantinople.

    And the Byzantines still had naval supremacy at this point, which meant that the Arab attempts to attack Constantinople by sea ended in failure, and that the Arabs who had crossed the Bosporus were cut off from the Arab forces on the Asian side of the Bosporus.
     
  14. Faeelin Lord of Ten Thousand Years

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  15. Nekromans Mernber

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    Huge walls, yes, but it's also a large city, and ergo not very self-sufficient. Just wait for them to run out of weapons and/or starve.
     
  16. Wozza Well-Known Member

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    In this period it probably was fairly self-sufficient. The population was at its lowest ebb and food was grown within the walls.

    Also of course food would primarily be brought in by sea. Which is harder to completely interdict.

    Fresh fish is in fact still sold each morning on the Golden Horn. And absolutely delicious it is too.
     
  17. snerfuplz Liveral Fascist

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    I remember hearing a legend that a Russian Tsar was deciding which to be the religion of his country. He decided on Christanity because it did not outlaw alcochol.
     
  18. Demosthenes Tu delenda est

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    The Tsar liked alcohol that much? :)
     
  19. snerfuplz Liveral Fascist

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    Russians and their drink. How else would they get through that nasty weather:D
     
  20. Hannibal.Caesar Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be quite a few legends rotating around about that. I think it's mentioned at the top of this thread, even.

    What would the affect of a Muslim Russia have on the development of eastern Europe? Would it ever be too ASB to imagine Moscow being the center of the Muslim intelligentsia?