I would think it would be home grown, as it develops. I think that a course like this is bound for a large developed nation in the New World, though there will be alot of oppression of course at the start. The whole nature of this is different from the western colonies because there is not quite as vivid sub culture, is there like an equivalent to OTL slaves? Bottom Line Meiguo is going to continue to be a "land of opportunity" and there will be a movement to break with autocratic Eurasian traditions
Ming of the West, Koxinga Goes East
- Thread starter Malta
- Start date
Even still that will take alot of effort to move toward a Democracy. As of the moment the Golden Gate is a Unofficial Hereditary Monarchy with loose Oligarchic leanings.
But alot of things change with the industrial revolution, it could change before hand if local leaders grow tired of regulations set up by a Golden gate government
This is a very interesting timeline and I generally like it, but there's one thing that's bothering me. According to Wikipedia (I know, but probably anyone else who wanted to talk about this would be even less reliable) China didn't learn that the earth was round until told by European scholars in the 17th century IOTL, but ITTLs chinese seem to have encountered Europeans coming from both the East or the West, and no mention has been made of them figuring out that the world is round. Have they just not put the pieces together yet? Has somebody figured it out, due to increased long-distance sea travel and therefore looking-at-horizons? Or is Wikipedia wrong in this matter?
I'm betting it's a situation where they never really believed the whole Flat-Earth thing in the first place and thus evidence of it being round is'nt as surprising, since they never gave it huge amounts of thought.
The idea of a round world was actually accepted by most of Europe's intellectuals contrary to popular belief I dont know about the Chinese, I would think that some of them would have believed so but never openly stated
Intellectuals, yes, the Church no, and since the Church had the power to have said intellectuals killed/imprisoned, it took longer than it ought to have for it to be universally accepted.
Hmm interesting.
Regardless I would think that by this point in things a proliferation of knowledge would become increasingly accepted by the Yeguoren. Given that they are closer to European influences socities and are more open in governmental policy to trade.
EDIT: Hah, but really. Next post I make will be an update.
Regardless I would think that by this point in things a proliferation of knowledge would become increasingly accepted by the Yeguoren. Given that they are closer to European influences socities and are more open in governmental policy to trade.
EDIT: Hah, but really. Next post I make will be an update.
Last edited:
China has had a high, if not overinflated, vew of its culture since it came into being, it's not something that changes, atleast not in the Metropole, isolated from the world.
Geography and the Settlement of the North American (Da Ye Guo)
The first Post-Jin people to settle the North American continent of course was the Jin Family and their associates which eventually lead to increasing immigration from Chinese, Korean, and Japanese immigrants along the West Coast of the continent. Next came the Spanish following the more eastern discovery by Columbus who after settling the island chains of the Caribbean went ashore and conquered Mexico. Following these two a gap of settlement occured for the next century as the other European powers attempted to gain footholds in the Western Hemisphere. Eventually though French efforts in Canada and the Mississippi River gained hold as well as British colonies on the Atlantic Seaboard.
While initially the Golden Gate received a massive influx of settlers in the events of the Ming Dynasty's collapse this was eventually halted as the Manchus gained control of Mainland China and regional hegemony. When the influx of immigration ended in the seventeenth century for the Golden Gate it began to pick up for the European colonizers. If all of North America was flat and filled with navigaitable rivers then by virtue of numbers the Asians would have spread from sea to sea in a few years. Still, while quantity has a certain quality it was the geographic settings of North America that set the pace of each culture's spread into the Native American heartlands.
While the Golden Gate settlers had initial room to fill in their Central Valley and the dubbed Williamette and Columbia river valleys they eventually faced geographic constraints with the Mojave Desert and the Da Dongshan or Rockies. For the Spanish this was a even more problem as what they claimed as New Spain was barely controlled via the mountains and deserts of Northern Mexico. The Rio Bravo and a few inlets in the Baja allowed for limited travel, hence why the region came under Golden Gate rule only once they had thoroughly controlled the Colorado River. Mountains and Empty Spaces with very few river valleys marks the general nature of the Western American Continent. East of the Mississippi and even up the Missouri river though is marked by temperate climate and numerous navigaitable rivers that allowed for expansive agricultural development and easy travel. The Golden Gate had to pour much time and effort into constructing canals and dams to fully profit from their territories bordering the Da Dongshan. The main avenues for travel having to travel upward taking paths over the great Mojave, whereas those on the East Coast could just march westward. Thus while eventually the Spanish and later Mexicans would be marginalized in the fight for control over North America's heartland their european cousins the English and French settlers would be worthy opponents to complete Asian settlement from the west.
The first Post-Jin people to settle the North American continent of course was the Jin Family and their associates which eventually lead to increasing immigration from Chinese, Korean, and Japanese immigrants along the West Coast of the continent. Next came the Spanish following the more eastern discovery by Columbus who after settling the island chains of the Caribbean went ashore and conquered Mexico. Following these two a gap of settlement occured for the next century as the other European powers attempted to gain footholds in the Western Hemisphere. Eventually though French efforts in Canada and the Mississippi River gained hold as well as British colonies on the Atlantic Seaboard.
While initially the Golden Gate received a massive influx of settlers in the events of the Ming Dynasty's collapse this was eventually halted as the Manchus gained control of Mainland China and regional hegemony. When the influx of immigration ended in the seventeenth century for the Golden Gate it began to pick up for the European colonizers. If all of North America was flat and filled with navigaitable rivers then by virtue of numbers the Asians would have spread from sea to sea in a few years. Still, while quantity has a certain quality it was the geographic settings of North America that set the pace of each culture's spread into the Native American heartlands.
While the Golden Gate settlers had initial room to fill in their Central Valley and the dubbed Williamette and Columbia river valleys they eventually faced geographic constraints with the Mojave Desert and the Da Dongshan or Rockies. For the Spanish this was a even more problem as what they claimed as New Spain was barely controlled via the mountains and deserts of Northern Mexico. The Rio Bravo and a few inlets in the Baja allowed for limited travel, hence why the region came under Golden Gate rule only once they had thoroughly controlled the Colorado River. Mountains and Empty Spaces with very few river valleys marks the general nature of the Western American Continent. East of the Mississippi and even up the Missouri river though is marked by temperate climate and numerous navigaitable rivers that allowed for expansive agricultural development and easy travel. The Golden Gate had to pour much time and effort into constructing canals and dams to fully profit from their territories bordering the Da Dongshan. The main avenues for travel having to travel upward taking paths over the great Mojave, whereas those on the East Coast could just march westward. Thus while eventually the Spanish and later Mexicans would be marginalized in the fight for control over North America's heartland their european cousins the English and French settlers would be worthy opponents to complete Asian settlement from the west.
So what, if any, influence did the colonisation and exploitation of the Americas have on European technology? I thinking Spanish ship building and ships but I'm sure there would have been a million more improvements and inventions driven by the new needs and opportunities.
Assuming that, is something similar happening with the Chinese, Korean and Japanese Naval technology?
Or since they are not as tightly connected with their home nations, nations which are trying to pretend the colonies don't exist, are they falling behind?
Assuming that, is something similar happening with the Chinese, Korean and Japanese Naval technology?
Or since they are not as tightly connected with their home nations, nations which are trying to pretend the colonies don't exist, are they falling behind?
Lets see. It made the exchange of trade between Europe and Asia much quicker. Earlier tea addiction and the introduction of American agricultural products to China so a higher population boom all around. China as I have described becomes incredibly over loaded with silver and gold. European advances are hitting the Asian markets much earlier, thus powers such as the Dutch have to be more aggressive with attempting to make trade inroads. Technological exchanges between the two as far as copying each other will trend with the Europeans copying agricultural, building, and crafting techniques while the Asians copy military and technological advances for the most part.
The Qing Isolation imposed by the Manchu victory will be very bad for the Golden Gate given their trade is organized to export alot to China. So they will have to regear somewhat and open trade to other parties.
The Qing Isolation imposed by the Manchu victory will be very bad for the Golden Gate given their trade is organized to export alot to China. So they will have to regear somewhat and open trade to other parties.
Ethnic Identity in Ye Shan Guo
Throughout the history of Oriental Colonialism the ethnic identity of the settlers would shift and change. Yet, for much of their history they would still be seen with disdain by the motherland a of those who traveled to the distant gate of the new world. The reasoning of this being varied.
One of the first ethnic hypothesis taken from historical documents puts forth that due to the fact that many settlers interbred with the local Native Ye Guo-ren they were seen as being less in the eyes of those still in the homelands. Indeed, Golden Gate history has many example of cross racial marriage and social harmony with the natives, especially in the beginning of the settlement when the Jing family hired only unmarried men, but also a violent relationship such as the Jiro Massacre. DNA studies have still shown that more then half of the population has had a anscestry tied to the natives, but also that inter-ethnic relationships have occurred and are accepted by the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc groups. Dispatches and letters recovered from Ye Shan Guo and East Asia recount belief that the people of the Golden Gate have bad blood. A popular slang term in China today for Ye Guo-ren translates as 'Mongrel People'.
Another hypothesis ties into the central ethnocentrism and isolationist thinking of the East Asian states that have developed over time. For the Ming era the prevalent thought to those who traveled to the Golden Gate was that they were flawed or corrupt people, hungry for greed and not content with society so it was better to let these wretches go and forever be shamed by their anscestors. During the Qing era the view shifted much harsher, seeing the people as working against the rule of the dynasty, which extended to anyone desiring to leave for Ye Shan Guo-contributing to long periods of isolationism. The modern Chinese as well as other East Asian view have shifted between these two views depending on what trended in their nationalist rhetoric.
The third reason is that the Golden Gate was very much seen as a release pressure against political and social forces within China, Korea, and Japan in particular (even Spain encouraged some malcontents to be exiled here). Be they a merchant class chaffing under extremist Confucian reforms or a Confucian class chaffing under extremist Taoist reforms or religious secret socities or disgraced warlords or even people from areas of extreme poverty. To their view Ye Shan Guo was seen as the dumping ground of their outcasts.
All this consistently played along with national policy toward the Golden Gate which was official disdain and disapproval (when the region didn't produce some sort of benefit). Therefore it was no surprise during later times in history when aid was called for to the Golden Gate the people there were not always keen to obliged. Even the distant and old family ties had produced strained relationships.
Throughout the history of Oriental Colonialism the ethnic identity of the settlers would shift and change. Yet, for much of their history they would still be seen with disdain by the motherland a of those who traveled to the distant gate of the new world. The reasoning of this being varied.
One of the first ethnic hypothesis taken from historical documents puts forth that due to the fact that many settlers interbred with the local Native Ye Guo-ren they were seen as being less in the eyes of those still in the homelands. Indeed, Golden Gate history has many example of cross racial marriage and social harmony with the natives, especially in the beginning of the settlement when the Jing family hired only unmarried men, but also a violent relationship such as the Jiro Massacre. DNA studies have still shown that more then half of the population has had a anscestry tied to the natives, but also that inter-ethnic relationships have occurred and are accepted by the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc groups. Dispatches and letters recovered from Ye Shan Guo and East Asia recount belief that the people of the Golden Gate have bad blood. A popular slang term in China today for Ye Guo-ren translates as 'Mongrel People'.
Another hypothesis ties into the central ethnocentrism and isolationist thinking of the East Asian states that have developed over time. For the Ming era the prevalent thought to those who traveled to the Golden Gate was that they were flawed or corrupt people, hungry for greed and not content with society so it was better to let these wretches go and forever be shamed by their anscestors. During the Qing era the view shifted much harsher, seeing the people as working against the rule of the dynasty, which extended to anyone desiring to leave for Ye Shan Guo-contributing to long periods of isolationism. The modern Chinese as well as other East Asian view have shifted between these two views depending on what trended in their nationalist rhetoric.
The third reason is that the Golden Gate was very much seen as a release pressure against political and social forces within China, Korea, and Japan in particular (even Spain encouraged some malcontents to be exiled here). Be they a merchant class chaffing under extremist Confucian reforms or a Confucian class chaffing under extremist Taoist reforms or religious secret socities or disgraced warlords or even people from areas of extreme poverty. To their view Ye Shan Guo was seen as the dumping ground of their outcasts.
All this consistently played along with national policy toward the Golden Gate which was official disdain and disapproval (when the region didn't produce some sort of benefit). Therefore it was no surprise during later times in history when aid was called for to the Golden Gate the people there were not always keen to obliged. Even the distant and old family ties had produced strained relationships.
Religious Movements of North America: The Lakers
By Henry Lassiter
The Lakers or Members of the Great Salt Lake Covenant originate in the early 17th Century and founded by a Korean pioneer by the name of Gim Won-Shilk. While not one of the first Asian settlers in the region, as the site of Holy Lake City had previously been occupied by a small trader outpost, Gim was the one who encouraged the population base for the current city. A third generation Korean Yeguo-ren he was born in the bustling city of Ryuyong and following the death of his parents at the age of twelve he lives in one of the poorer monasteries on the edge of Ryuyong's limits. It was there that he took a great interest and became a monk until he was thirty when he struck out to support a new monastery being built close to the Salt Lake.
Unfortunately for Gim his caravan was attacked by disgruntled Ute raiders who were quite angry at growing settlement by Asians on their lands. Managing to survive the attack, Gim was seperated from other survivors and became lost in the wilderness. Two weeks later he showed up at the site of the trade outpost and proclaimed that he had been given a vision by the spirit of the lake and surrounding wilderness. There he professed to have been given special powers and drank from the lake. All who initially associated with him thought him delirious and ignored him. His fellow monks tried to re assure him that what had happened was probably sun stroke or thirst delirium, but he would hear none of it and set out on his own to spread the word of peace and clean living.
Not long afterward he declared he had found gold and thereafter he had a very pleasent audience and began construction of the Holy Lake Settlement. Preaching of a simple life along side the spirits of nature...
...dismissed reports of the initial spread of Lakers, as the Jin family had more important matters to attend to considering the end of the Ming. Which was a mistake as within a few years Lakers had spread out along the Rocky Mountain establishing successful settlements where others failed and absorbed settlers like a sponge. Erring on their past mistake the Jin family increasingly became worried of seperatism amongst settlements, especially those popping within and on the foothills of the treacherous Dong Shan (Rockies). The Golden Gate began to establish military outposts on their eastern border to impose control and this policy inevitably lead to the Laker War.
By Henry Lassiter
The Lakers or Members of the Great Salt Lake Covenant originate in the early 17th Century and founded by a Korean pioneer by the name of Gim Won-Shilk. While not one of the first Asian settlers in the region, as the site of Holy Lake City had previously been occupied by a small trader outpost, Gim was the one who encouraged the population base for the current city. A third generation Korean Yeguo-ren he was born in the bustling city of Ryuyong and following the death of his parents at the age of twelve he lives in one of the poorer monasteries on the edge of Ryuyong's limits. It was there that he took a great interest and became a monk until he was thirty when he struck out to support a new monastery being built close to the Salt Lake.
Unfortunately for Gim his caravan was attacked by disgruntled Ute raiders who were quite angry at growing settlement by Asians on their lands. Managing to survive the attack, Gim was seperated from other survivors and became lost in the wilderness. Two weeks later he showed up at the site of the trade outpost and proclaimed that he had been given a vision by the spirit of the lake and surrounding wilderness. There he professed to have been given special powers and drank from the lake. All who initially associated with him thought him delirious and ignored him. His fellow monks tried to re assure him that what had happened was probably sun stroke or thirst delirium, but he would hear none of it and set out on his own to spread the word of peace and clean living.
Not long afterward he declared he had found gold and thereafter he had a very pleasent audience and began construction of the Holy Lake Settlement. Preaching of a simple life along side the spirits of nature...
...dismissed reports of the initial spread of Lakers, as the Jin family had more important matters to attend to considering the end of the Ming. Which was a mistake as within a few years Lakers had spread out along the Rocky Mountain establishing successful settlements where others failed and absorbed settlers like a sponge. Erring on their past mistake the Jin family increasingly became worried of seperatism amongst settlements, especially those popping within and on the foothills of the treacherous Dong Shan (Rockies). The Golden Gate began to establish military outposts on their eastern border to impose control and this policy inevitably lead to the Laker War.
So TTL's version of Mormons?
From Korea?
well...should of seen it coming
BTW, why would it still be called the Great Salt Lake? Is that just a translation?
From Korea?
well...should of seen it coming
BTW, why would it still be called the Great Salt Lake? Is that just a translation?