Medieval America Co-op Project

[Kosta]

The trade map looks great- I'd love to write a story set in TTLs Singapore. As one of the major crossroads of the world it would be a great setting for a thriller.

Thank you! I personally think it's a bit sloppy looking, but nevertheless, it gets the job done . Please do write a story. Asia's barely been talked about, in my yet-to-be-published stories I mention Punjab and Cipangu, that's about it. Besides we do have a story thread for such ideas (an innocent plug by the creator, I swear). If you'd like help or to post character sketches, outlines, settings, etc, we'd all love to help.

But then again I'm a complete hypocrite. I'm much too afraid to publish my own story since I think it's too bizarre for my tastes!

 

[Hendryk]

I'd like to see more updates on this.

 

[OwenM]

They were nomadic for millenia.
What is the bigger incentive they've got to be agricultural than the Great Plains. Changing them to agricultural would be a sudden, massive unneccessary change. As far as I can see, your arguement iss equally valid for both. What is the difference?

 

[OwenM]

North Wales has always dominated the south until the industrial revolution,and Gwynedd was the last area to be conquered. That, and the fact my family's from there was enough to make me jump to conclusions. Sorry for that.
I now understand the reasons for Cardiff being capital. Was it being the pre-Fall capital also a factor?
But I still don't see the need for a fusion of Welsh Caerdydd and English Cardiff to get Caerdiff. Can you please explain this?

Pretty please?

 

[Jord839]

I'd like to see more updates on this.

I think the problem is that most of us have created a lot for the areas we know about, but we don't have much clues for the rest of the world.

I might do something if I can figure out the situation in Brazil and Subsaharan Africa.

They were nomadic for millenia.
What is the bigger incentive they've got to be agricultural than the Great Plains. Changing them to agricultural would be a sudden, massive unneccessary change. As far as I can see, your arguement iss equally valid for both. What is the difference?

Decent point.

Hendryk, care to respond?

 

[Hendryk]

They were nomadic for millenia.
What is the bigger incentive they've got to be agricultural than the Great Plains. Changing them to agricultural would be a sudden, massive unneccessary change. As far as I can see, your arguement iss equally valid for both. What is the difference?

The Manchus became sedentary in the 17th century and, by the time the Qing dynasty collapsed, were so thoroughly Sinicized that their existence as a separate ethnic group was purely formal. What's more, Han Chinese are actually the majority population in former Manchuria, and have been since the region was open to Han settlement in the 19th century. The "sudden, massive unnecessary change" would on the contrary be turning back from agriculture.

I think your mistake is that you consider Manchuria to be similar to Mongolia. It is not. In all the ways that matter, Manchuria has become part of the Chinese heartland.

 

[OwenM]

Okay, point taken. But why were they nomadic for so long in RL then?

 

[Hendryk]

But why were they nomadic for so long in RL then?

Because they had yet to try out sedentarism. Once they did, there was no turning back.

 

[OwenM]

Why didn’t they try it out for so long? I mean, just before the Mongol invasion, they were the dominant power, weren’t they? Would they have tried it out sooner if that hadn’t happened? And what about Inner Mongolia?
(I have no knowledge of Chinese history beyond the list of traditional dynasties, and some vague knowledge of the better known periods, like Warring States, Three Empires, the century before the Yuan, the Ming, and the start and end of Qing, and everything since).

 

[OwenM]

Hmm.... Patagonia has a strong Welsh subpopulation. What would happen to that? It is rather cold there, isn't it. Probably too cold to maintain a large enough population for independence. Ah well, hope springs eternal.
Also, Buenos Aires and el Rio de la Plata would either be rich or be a fantastic prize for the surrounding nations. Probably both, at different points. Uruguayan leather might make it rich again. And then there's Brazilian rubber....
Chile would also lose more of its population.. And so Bolivia might finally get its coast back. Peru might just see another restored Inca Empire (the last attempt was in the late 18th century OTL, and came close to succeeding, at least temporarily).
Just taking a look at South America.

 

[OwenM]

Also, why are we now using Medieval European terms in America?
I liked Kings being called Governors, Kingdoms States, Dukes Colonels, and Duchies Territories!

 

[Hendryk]

Why didn’t they try it out for so long? I mean, just before the Mongol invasion, they were the dominant power, weren’t they? Would they have tried it out sooner if that hadn’t happened?

The Manchus rose as a regional power at the turn of the 17th century, and took advantage of the decay of the Ming dynasty to make a move on China; but the Sinicization and sedentarization of what would become Manchuria started centuries earlier, during the reign of the Liao in the 10th century. For the following millennium, agriculture-based lifestyles slowly but steadily entrenched themselves in the region. There was a temporary rollback when the Mongols took over but that was soon reversed, because even then the local populations saw sedentarism as preferable to nomadism.

Hmm.... Patagonia has a strong Welsh subpopulation. What would happen to that?

As a rule, I'd expect immigrant groups such as this one to have long since assimilated into the majority population by the time of Medieval America. There may be the odd red-haired Argentinian but that's about it.

 

[OwenM]

As a rule, I'd expect immigrant groups such as this one to have long since assimilated into the majority population by the time of Medieval America. There may be the odd red-haired Argentinian but that's about it.

You're confusing Welsh and Irish. Welshmen are mostly brown or black haired.
Apparently Chubut is 20% Welsh-speaking, with Welsh speakers dominant in two small towns, with the largest population in the third-biggest sttlement, where they're a minority, despit being the original settlers there. And the Welsh placenames will survive.
But yeah, you're probably right. Y Wladfa's too small. Ah well. Like I said, hope springs eternal.

 

[OwenM]

The Manchus rose as a regional power at the turn of the 17th century, and took advantage of the decay of the Ming dynasty to make a move on China; but the Sinicization and sedentarization of what would become Manchuria started centuries earlier, during the reign of the Liao in the 10th century. For the following millennium, agriculture-based lifestyles slowly but steadily entrenched themselves in the region. There was a temporary rollback when the Mongols took over but that was soon reversed, because even then the local populations saw sedentarism as preferable to nomadism.

I thought the Jurchen had dominated China before the Mongols as the Jīn Dynasty, ruling northern China and making the Song pay tribute. Then in the 17th century they changed their name to Manchu, before ruling China first as Hòujīn and later as Qīng. Am I more or less right about their history as a regional power?

 

[Flocculencio]

You're confusing Welsh and Irish. Welshmen are mostly brown or black haired.

You're confusing Irish and Scots. The Irish are mostly brown or black haired like the Welsh. It's the Scots who tend to have more redheads. The stereotypical ginger Irishman is most likely an Ulster Scot.

 

[Hendryk]

I thought the Jurchen had dominated China before the Mongols as the Jīn Dynasty, ruling northern China and making the Song pay tribute. Then in the 17th century they changed their name to Manchu, before ruling China first as Hòujīn and later as Qīng. Am I more or less right about their history as a regional power?

That's about it.

So, to sum it up, it would make sense to include Manchuria as part of the Qian imperial remnant.

 

[OwenM]

You're confusing Irish and Scots. The Irish are mostly brown or black haired like the Welsh. It's the Scots who tend to have more redheads. The stereotypical ginger Irishman is most likely an Ulster Scot.

If you say so.

 

[OwenM]

That's about it.

So, to sum it up, it would make sense to include Manchuria as part of the Qian imperial remnant.

Would Inner Mongolia be too? And what about Tibet?

 

[OwenM]

The Idaho

Its difficult to call the Idaho tribes a kingdom much less a nation. They have more similarities with the horse tribes of the Great Plains than the civilized kingdoms of the east or west. The Idaho themselves are a split and fractured people. The crucible of their civilization lies along the Rocky Mountains which have long sheltered them from invasion and outside aggression. They are a clan based society, with loyalty towards ones kin being of foremost importance. The respect for these loyalties has lead to blood feuds, of legendary length and violence.

Each clan is based around an extended lineage. The sizes of clans vary, ranging from a few dozen inhabitants of a mining village, to a great clan of several thousand. The practice of genealogy is of vital importance, as it allows one to quickly ascertain a person’s loyalties and rivalries. Each clan appoints a Sheriff or prince, to represent them with inter tribal politics. The Sheriff in turn consults with a council of elders, who advise him on matters of trade and state. The Idaho are very religious. Neo-paganisms is rare in their lands, and viewed with great suspicion. Most of the Idaho are neo-Israelites, however a very significant minority are among the Moroni. This influence has spread even to the neo-Israelites many of whom have adopted the Moroni’s practice of polygamy, abstention of alcohol, and peculiar cosmology.

The Idaho are mostly a herding culture, raising horses, cattle and goats and protecting their grassing lands from outsiders. However, wherever the climate is forgiving, small farming villages take root. Here they grow hearty wheat and potatoes. Indeed the brown tuber forms the basis of their diet, eaten with great helpings of meat and milk. The most prized resource belonging to the Idaho are its mineral riches, which are pried from the earth from fortified mining camps. There lands are famed for the great ingots of silver and gold that traverse along the trade routes which bisect the state. This has brought great wealth to the fractured tribes, and has encouraged ever more violent internal struggles. The Idaho are known as skilled metalworkers, as renown as much for their silver ornamentation as their swords. Idaho merchants are not uncommon among the northern trade routes, dealing both in the trafficking of goods and protection.

Didn't White have Idaho be in Deseret?

 

[Jord839]

Hmm.... Patagonia has a strong Welsh subpopulation. What would happen to that? It is rather cold there, isn't it. Probably too cold to maintain a large enough population for independence. Ah well, hope springs eternal.

I have to agree with Hendryk here, for the most part expect such groups to be assimilated.

Also, Buenos Aires and el Rio de la Plata would either be rich or be a fantastic prize for the surrounding nations. Probably both, at different points. Uruguayan leather might make it rich again. And then there's Brazilian rubber....

I'll keep that in mind.

Chile would also lose more of its population.. And so Bolivia might finally get its coast back. Peru might just see another restored Inca Empire (the last attempt was in the late 18th century OTL, and came close to succeeding, at least temporarily).
Just taking a look at South America.

Well, I mentioned something about a new Inca Empire. There's plenty of Quenchua speakers in Peru nowadays so it's certainly concievable.

Also, why are we now using Medieval European terms in America?
I liked Kings being called Governors, Kingdoms States, Dukes Colonels, and Duchies Territories!

Well, the majority of American nations are using those titles, if you look through the Feudal Core territories. As for why some areas are shifting away think of it this way: there's still a US around, and to some areas that have drifted away more culturally(Gulf, Great Lakes) they might want to distance themselves from the ancient past and its annoying present. Hence, they stop pretending and just call themsevles Kings and such. The other side of that is the West Coast, where with little to no contact with the restored US, they keep using the titles of President and Governor everywhere.

(Of course, the real reason is that we weren't really thinking of that when we wrote up the first few entries so uh... yeah.)

Didn't White have Idaho be in Deseret?

They're called the Idaho, but I wouldn't expect they control all the territory once called Idaho. The Mormons most likely have reached up into the largely Mormon southern Idaho, while northern Idaho and maybe some areas into the surrounding states is filled with the Idaho.