Map Thread XIV

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Modern day map of the UBSR

I'm 99% sure this map is Krall's (or The Kiat's? I always get them mixed up).

 

[zalezsky]

An Apathetic Failure

Here's a failed project to mark my first post in this new Map Thread
I suppose you all can guess the situation; if someone hits the nail on the head.
I will explain, otherwise have fun looking at this ugly monstrosity that I abandoned.
Feel free to use this as you like, if you will it so.

 

[Kibbutznik]

Russian Civil War with a victorious Germany?

 

[Used-to-be Song Chinese]

Russian Civil War with a victorious Germany?

Assuming the Polish border, it must be during 20s-30s, therefore th divided China with China Proper united was ruled by a more competent Nationalist? Or this is a too conventional map to show how really chaotic warlordism was in the state?

 

[zalezsky]

Russian Civil War with a victorious Germany?

Not quite, if you look at the german border WWI was lost as in our time line. Civil war part is correct

Assuming the Polish border, it must be during 20s-30s, therefore th divided China with China Proper united was ruled by a more competent Nationalist? Or this is a too conventional map to show how really chaotic warlordism was in the state?

The time frame is correct; I hadn't thought too much about china to be honest, however your scenario is quite plausible. And the chaotic warlordism is what I was attempting at in the beginning however I ended up having 10+ separate colours in Russia alone.... which looked awful.

 

[Used-to-be Song Chinese]

The time frame is correct; I hadn't thought too much about china to be honest, however your scenario is quite plausible. And the chaotic warlordism is what I was attempting at in the beginning however I ended up having 10+ separate colours in Russia alone.... which looked awful.

Everyone loves a continental-wide chaos, that makes rooms for numerous possibilities! Hell, you can even have a Sino-Russian Communist Monstrous Union Federation state out of this Sino-Russian-wide mess. But hey I understand that makes your scenario dangerously borderline ASB, therefore I suggest to make things easier maybe just make a Nationalist China unified earlier, or how about a Han Chinese dynasty that just toppled the Qing decades ago, but too weak to held her former territories and let other non-Chinese regions went on their own? Anyway just my suggestions.

 

[Gian]

So does anyone want to comment on my first map in this thread?

 

[Clandango]

So does anyone want to comment on my first map in this thread?

The link explains the border changes well enough.

 

[Beedok]

So, north America is a lot less populated than OTL. Gotcha. Although I'd expect Bengali *Greater Florida to be a growth zone, the climate is not too different from back home and it's certainly fertile - if the Bengalis are at all inclined to migrate.

Yeah, the Bengalis are responsible for the majority of the actual settlers, and are getting in trouble for that because it's supposed to just be a temporary lease.

India seems a poor analogy, since the British were there in force and directly controlling a lot more of the land and people, while there are still all-Rome and all-China regimes at least theoretically ruling over most of the territory: the late Ottoman Empire, when Europeans controlled most of the economy and the country's finances, seems closer. And the "techniques" of rebellion improve over time, while modernization makes mass mobilization much easier. Further, this world has revolutionary ideology: British in India also did not have to deal with the equivalent of the Soviet Union supporting unrest and propagandizing the masses, as the pre-second-Freedom war Cooperative states and their missionaries no doubt did.

Yeah, like I said there are cracks in the system, the 1857 India bit was more a show of the scale of past rebellions. Add in that the Freedomist ideology has strong religious overtones that a lot of the traditionalist pro-independence types in Rome and China find un-Roman/Chinese and you have two rebellious factions who hate each other as much as the Indians.

Also, human nature being what it is, a modernizing world-dominating India whose inhabitants don't at least consider themselves culturally greatly superior to everyone else? Come on.

Well they do think they're somewhat better, but China and Rome still get some weird 'respect' from them. They're still getting used to the idea that their own theatre, literature, etc. is worth something vs. the ancient traditions of Rome and China they'd looked up to so much for centuries before. Having been told they were barbarians for so long some of them still kind of believe it. (Plus they're mostly Hindus and Buddhists, so don't have that same Christian zeal of 'convert or face hellfire' that OTL Europe was prone to in varying degrees.)

It certainly is necessary for there to be any long-term cooperation between puppet rulers and Indian corporations that the relationship benefits in some ways at least a sizable slice of the local elites: and given the already described brutality of the system as-it-is, it is a little hard to see them joining an international economic elite. British rule in India led to essentially 0% per capita economic growth throughout the 19th century: aside from a thin slice of noblemen retaining their wealth and toys (but none of their independence and little of their dignity) this was not a sustainable relationship.

Well, brutality is mostly saved for the Free Corporate Territories. They more view the Romans and Chinese as captive markets. (Korea some of other Dharmic minor powers around the world get a similar standing.) So there's still plenty of finished goods and spices and whatnot flowing into Rome and China. There's been relatively little economic growth for China or Rome, but control is much softer than OTL India. It's mostly about establishing monopolies, local laws and customs and such are left alone as long as they don't impede the flow of goods.

But I am perhaps unfairly assuming things have always been this bad. What if Corporate India has only slowly expanded its power in Rome and China since the 1600s? So it has only been in the last 70 or 80 years that it has become clear that the governments of China or Rome have become mere paid puppets of the Companies. Enough time for a rebellion or two, but not enough for a real mass or ideological resistance to arise. Put the First Freedom War forward a few decades, so it's only some 50-odd years for new revolutionary ideas (which the local conservative elites really don't like either) to spread through China and Rome. The cracks are showing, but the collapse is not yet.

(Why do I have a sudden sense of deja vu? Did I have a similar argument with someone before?)

Yeah, it's a lot like that. The Indians were happy to support conservative isolationist factions already present in both nations, but outside of gaining trade monopolies vs. other Indian companies the influence remained more a mutual understanding sort of thing. Only with the development of faster ships and telegraph cables and whatnot have Indian companies gained a clear upper hand.
(The Praetorians have only been letting Indian companies have friends auction for the crown for the last 45 years after all.)

Perhaps the Balkan capital is like Yamoussoukro in Cote d'Ivoire: an eccentric emperor from the Balkans moves the capital to his goat-infested Balkan home town, builds the place up big, he has a successful son and grandson, and suddenly it's traditional for the capital to be there, never mind the terrible transportation costs.

Bruce

Well, it was meant to be on the coast, so it's not too hard to get to.

 

[Nalph Nado]

Finally finished and cross-posted from Deviantart



((CLICK IMAGE FOR FULL-SIZE VERSION))

You accidentally labeled Orleans as 4 instead of 3. Other than that, great job! Who would have taken France's place as an imperial power of this world?

On an unrelated noted, how's that map of British Argentina going along?

 

[Nanwe]

Here's a failed project to mark my first post in this new Map Thread
I suppose you all can guess the situation; if someone hits the nail on the head.
I will explain, otherwise have fun looking at this ugly monstrosity that I abandoned.
Feel free to use this as you like, if you will it so.


​

Nonsense! It's an awesome map. You should definitely continue it!​

 

[Gian]

You accidentally labeled Orleans as 4 instead of 3. Other than that, great job! Who would have taken France's place as an imperial power of this world?

I have (kind of) a list of imperial powers (Castile and France would not be on the list). Also, I will fix that mistake.

On an unrelated noted, how's that map of British Argentina going along?

Unfortunately, it's getting nowhere, since the focus now is making Switzerland and Korea in this map's world.

 

[GodEmperorG]

Finally finished and cross-posted from Deviantart



((CLICK IMAGE FOR FULL-SIZE VERSION))

Why is Chalon-en-Champagne the capital of Burgundy? Wouldn't Dijon remain the capital? Also Burgundy is primed to take both Lyon and Reims, with both those cities the King of Burgundy could possibly claim the French Crown, but since it's already 2015 that's way too late.

 

[Gian]

Why is Chalon-en-Champagne the capital of Burgundy? Wouldn't Dijon remain the capital? Also Burgundy is primed to take both Lyon and Reims, with both those cities the King of Burgundy could possibly claim the French Crown, but since it's already 2015 that's way too late.

Chalons was chosen in the 1800s because it was centrally located between the Burgundian heartland and Belgium. Also, they were quite content to preserve their independence (after all, they did stay true to their alliance with the English in the alt!Hundred Years' War

 

[Miner]

I have been experimenting with a small map set in the 1930s - including an alternate WWI & Treaty of Versailles - but I have a couple questions.

Here's Austria so far (sorry about the tiny image) heavily inspired by Chörnyj Orel's map.* The borders I have so far are in a lighter shade of purple, but I've been thinking of including some of the areas in dark purple.
I'm pretty sure of including Slovene Carinthia and the German-speaking area to the right, but do you think I should include the Sudetenland or make it its own state?
*https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=292595

 

[Asami]

I have been experimenting with a small map set in the 1930s - including an alternate WWI & Treaty of Versailles - but I have a couple questions.

Here's Austria so far (sorry about the tiny image) heavily inspired by Chörnyj Orel's map.* The borders I have so far are in a lighter shade of purple, but I've been thinking of including some of the areas in dark purple.
I'm pretty sure of including Slovene Carinthia and the German-speaking area to the right, but do you think I should include the Sudetenland or make it its own state?
*https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=292595

Def. include the Sudetenland -- it doesn't make much sense as an independent state unless it's one of those Protectorates (like Saar or Danzig)

 

[B_Munro]

I'm 99% sure this map is Krall's (or The Kiat's? I always get them mixed up).

Similar, but not quite the same?

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=10357592#post10357592

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Similar, but not quite the same?

And the 1% has it!

 

[Spartakusbund1]

I've been restored. But now I feel like a jackass...

First post in the map thread in a while. Revision of my socialist ottomans timline. tell me what you think
View attachment 271949

Nice. I remember seeing that awhile back, thought it was neat.

 

[Miner]

Def. include the Sudetenland -- it doesn't make much sense as an independent state unless it's one of those Protectorates (like Saar or Danzig)

Good point - even though I could incorporate it into Czechoslovakia/Germany, it feels a bit more interesting this way.
By the way, what do you think I should do with the Székely Land? Leave it as some sort of Romanian autonomous region?