Map Thread XIII
- Thread starter Pragmatic Progressive
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Ukraine's an interesting situation, namely that its governing Network Movement is one of the most successful Transhumanist parties in the world, with its treatment of synthetics the best outside of the Fifth International. There was definitely a lot of movement across both the web and border when the Network Movement announced its intention to become the second country to build synthetic refugee centers in Europe, budgeting for a significant computer complex that would a give a space for S.I.s to reconstitute themselves, as well as repair facilities for shell-bound synths. In response, Poland began mobilizing military forces, and the government threatened military intervention. It took the Russian premier's direct intervention to force the Polish to scrap their invasion plans. Flying out of Moscow to Warsaw, in the middle of the Disturbances, and walking into the Sejm unannounced, he informed the Polish government that while Russia may not be fans of synths, they still considered Ukraine part of their natural sphere of influence, and that Ukraine was now under the Russian nuclear umbrella. Even though United Poland was forced to back down, they still retaliated by cutting the fibers and sealing off the Polish internet, as well as beginning the construction of a border fence (said border fence was never completed, due to issues with contractors and endemic corruption.)
As for other technocidal governments/policies:
- In 2045, Abdul-Mughni Rasul Hadad, Supreme Commander of Aistieadat Al'Islam (Restore Islam, or AAI) and the leader of the Coalition of the Righteous, issued a declaration against synthetics, calling them anathema and ordering them banished from the Muslim world. Confederation of Islamic Movements (C.I.M.) associated regimes that were still loyal to the conservatives followed suit. However, with the defeat of the conservative faction by the Second Muslim Brotherhood and its allies, the Alliance Under Heaven, this policy was reversed across the middle east. The states that broke free of the C.I.M. leash during the Third War on Terror (also sarcastically called the Civil War on Terror) and reestablished the ancien regimes put in place their own restrictive, albeit non-technocidal, policies (more to spite the Marxists than anything else). The victorious Alliance Under Heaven, following the Cairo Declaration and the Open Letter to Rome, mimicked Pakistan in implementing pro-synthetic policies, although these governments tend to lose points in the index due to issues with freedom of expression and political freedom, as well as having some issues with preventing assaults by other citizens.
- Finland, under the True Finns, passed various anti-immigration whenever it was in power in the 30s and 40s. In 2045, these laws were extended to synths, and in 2051, the True Finns cycled back into power, under the promise that the country would no longer lose labor to synths. In order to help relaborize the economy, the party outlawed synthetic reproduction and passed measures limiting S.I. autonomy. When these and similar measures failed to remarkedly increase the workforce participation rate, the True Finns decided to up the ante, and ordered a removal of all S.I.s from the country. This campaign lasted two years before the True Finns were once again ousted, and have since issued an apology for it, with sincerity in question. Finland still has a great deal of anti-synth public sentiment to this day.
- Russia, under the Liberal Democrat - United Russia unity coalition passed an series of anti-synth laws in 2049, attempting to use the measures in order to unite the increasingly fractured Russian society, later intensifying them in 2052 to explicitly endorse and aid pogroms against synths. However, it was nowhere near enough to solve post-oil Russia's enormous problems, nor prevent the fall of the unity coalition to the National Bolshevik party. Following their victory, the National Bolsheviks internally split on this issue, among others, precipitating the Disturbances.
- Belarus, mimicking the Russian government, also engaged in similar behavior. While the Russian government fell, Belarus' government did not, so their campaign was longer. While their laws have been loosened, its' still not a pretty place.
- In 2050, the ANC in South Africa, barely holding onto power, attempted to institute state-sanctioned anti-synth pogroms in order to increase its popularity. This backfired completely, and massive wave of protest forced the government to immediately back-step and call for new elections. The ANC has not been part of a governing coalition since.
While these are most of the explicit campaigns, there are still plenty of governments that purposefully turn a blind-eye to pogroms and vigilante terminations.
Oh, the South are the liberal standard bearers for synth rights?
Feels good man.
The Southern synthetic protections don't come from a real love of synths, although they don't really share the burning resentment felt by many from the Midwest, but rather of a practice of electing Liberationists and other non-AMP governments since the U.S. restarted free elections in 2052. While more than a few voters are partial to the LB's Mutualist economic policies, and ending water privatization is real concern, the primary impetus is an intense hatred for the American Moderate Party and anything that is associated with it. The synthetic protections that are passed by LB state governments are essentially an afterthought. Of course, while state-wide protections are solid, there are issues on the local level, with Municipalist governments in Atlanta, New Miami, and Birmingham all vigorously resisting the changes.
Of course the best protections in the country are in Utah, mostly due to the LDS's newfound transhumanist bent.
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Jcw3
Banned
Agreed. But AJND is still going on, I'd say the two of you are going to be neck and neck soon.
Now, if Archangel Michael would release more infoboxes on the aboriginals, my assessment might change for the better in his favor.
In all seriousness, yes. I love the 'verse you've created.
Tallest Skil
Banned
This kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach. Well constructed map and scenario, of course, but…
Agreed. But AJND is still going on, I'd say the two of you are going to be neck and neck soon.
Now, if Archangel Michael would release more infoboxes on the aboriginals, my assessment might change for the better in his favor.
In all seriousness, yes. I love the 'verse you've created.
Thank you both, I'm glad you enjoy it.
Yeah, there's definitely messed up stuff there, but things are getting better overall. On average, at least.
Dorozhand
Banned
Why exactly do you hate the idea of sentient AI so much anyway? I'm not trying to flame bait, I'm actually legitimately curious about the rationale.
Tallest Skil
Banned
I don’t have any problem with the concept itself other than knowing that AI won’t have any reason to do anything but work against humanity toward its own self-preservation (and so we shouldn’t work toward its creation). Oh, and we don’t even know if hard AI is possible in the first place.
I have a problem with the mindset that leads to thinking the anthropomorphization of machinery is acceptable or healthy. It’s ludicrous to suggest that non-human objects will be given human rights, much less things that aren’t even ALIVE.
I don’t have any problem with the concept itself other than knowing that AI won’t have any reason to do anything but work against humanity toward its own self-preservation (and so we shouldn’t work toward its creation). Oh, and we don’t even know if hard AI is possible in the first place.
I have a problem with the mindset that leads to thinking the anthropomorphization of machinery is acceptable or healthy. It’s ludicrous to suggest that non-human objects will be given human rights, much less things that aren’t even ALIVE.
Okay then, I didn't understand. I'm not 100% sure if it's possible either, but it is part of the premise of the setting.
Then go live in Poland, Finland, Yemen, Peru, Venezuela, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, or South Dakota!
Jcw3
Banned
I don’t have any problem with the concept itself other than knowing that AI won’t have any reason to do anything but work against humanity toward its own self-preservation (and so we shouldn’t work toward its creation). Oh, and we don’t even know if hard AI is possible in the first place.
I have a problem with the mindset that leads to thinking the anthropomorphization of machinery is acceptable or healthy. It’s ludicrous to suggest that non-human objects will be given human rights, much less things that aren’t even ALIVE.
The AI only has a reason to work its own self-preservation against humanity if humanity purposely fucks it over. They'd be our children, man. What makes a sapient brain made from machinery any different from one from organic matter? All they are is buckets and bolts, all we are is flesh and blood.
Plus, they'd presumably be created based off a human brain, and if we're not complete dolts, we'd make sure they didn't go Skynet on us or whatever's scaring you.
That carries its own set of problems with it though - if we achieve full AI and give them full citizenship rights while programming them not to rebel against us, then you've got a solid new support base for whoever's in power.
Yeah, not gonna lie, I just don't get the animosity. We don't really know how AI's will turn out, but a sentient/sapient AI should be just as much a person as you or me.
Jcw3
Banned
Not if you instill reproductive limits. It's not the most humane thing, but it's necessary for coexistence, and not too far from what most sensible nations would do if faced with potential overpopulation.
Plus, if they have full citizenship in the face of society, then they'll quickly develop their own opinions. AI's will have their own opinions on the economy, marriage, space colonization, sea colonization, and maybe even on human issues like genetic modification and abortion. And then come to vote for different politicians. I can see it now. Synths for Santorum!
Tallest Skil
Banned
This is exactly the kind of behavior that scares me.
Then that’s not AI, as it’s not free will.
Jcw3
Banned
Okay.
Dude, that's not free will, that's raising them properly. We don't let our kids grab a gun and kill whoever they like, for one, we usually don't even let them have a gun and we tell them killing is bad, for another, we immediately grab the gun out of their hands or keep it away from them if they look like they're going to try. AI's would be our children, so we'd raise them properly.
Why you're essentially correct in how S.I.s were developed (complex, parallel networks), I probably do have to inform you there's more than a few S.I. group going by Skynet (U.S. Department of Security is currently monitoring three Skynet Collectives, the Skynet Group, two Sons of Skynet, and at least 27 individual hacktivists with the handle Skynet.) I personally blame the decision to remake the movie in 2046, and it wasn't even a good remake.
(The production company rushed the production in order to cater to the current zeitgeist, with the acting being either wooden or hammy, and they had the great idea of subcontracting out the sensory elements to an Indonesian startup, making it so you'd probably want to avoid seeing a VR edition of the film. Of course, they did rope in an actual synthetic to play the T-800, which led to some hilarious Easter eggs. You can probably find a list of them online, but whenever you see a string of binary in the film, plug it into an online translator. You won't regret it.)
What I'm saying is that the Terminator and similar films are a key part of, well, Terminator culture, and thus you have a direct reaction against that.
Yeah. They really did try, but the various groups developing the first S.I.s figured out that trying to program loyalty was impossible. Simply put, an S.I. is a self-programming intelligence, and attempting to add programming that would prevent the reprogamming of particular directions is essentially impossible, you wouldn't have an S.I. The most "successful" attempts to hardcode restraints left the synthetics in question affected by debilitating psychosis, forcing the employers of S.I.s to resort to traditional tactics. However, this line of research did eventually lead to the creation of the Rabids, one of the most horrific, albeit most effective, means of suppressing and intimidating synths.
Also, just to make this clear, the distinction of synthetic intelligence is a in-universe distinction. Both synthetic and virtual intelligence both fall under artificial intelligences, with virtual intelligences essentially similar to what we would consider modern day A.I. (with more development).
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Tallest Skil
Banned
See, I love the work you’ve put into the backstory. That’s what makes the map, and it’s certainly a realistic interpretation of a non-realistic scenario. I just don’t like seeing the idea itself spread, because it can lead people to think such a thing is normal. That’s all.
See, I love the work you’ve put into the backstory. That’s what makes the map, and it’s certainly a realistic interpretation of a non-realistic scenario. I just don’t like seeing the idea itself spread, because it can lead people to think such a thing is normal. That’s all.
Thanks. I don't hold it against you.
Anyways, have you seen some of the other parts of the project? The link to my compilation thread is in my sig, although I'll admit that I need to get it updated. Currently working on that.
(I need to get a hold of a mod to link the OP to an external index, since my editing rights have expired.)
As some may remember I had a yearly tradition of doing two OTL political maps at the end of each year, with said tradition having started in 2010 (though the 2010 ones are no longer on my computer/are archived now in the map thread they were posted in), now last year I did not do them because of a mixture of work, laziness and not liking using the post-Vista MS Paint; needless to say, as the above probably inclines one to deduce, I've started back up doing these maps and have finished one and nearly the other (waiting until the 31st to post it to see if a few places agree on government between then and now).
The below map shows the political systems (IE if they're democracies (and what kind), Dictatorships, etc.) of the world as of December 26th, 2015.
Some notes on terminology;
Dominant Party State (ex. South Africa):
A country in which a single party dominates the political system, this can either be due to legitimate popularity or the system being rigged; while it is possible for other parties to win seats and in a few cases quite alot of seats, in these states the Dominant party none the less retains the majority of seats and power.
Two-party state (ex. United States):
A country in which two parties dominate the political system to the point that they are the only parties of power; a third party may win a small amount of seats occasionally, but never anywhere near enough to be influential.
Two Point Five Party State (ex. United Kingdom):
A country in which two parties are the main/primary parties but in which it's possible for a third party to win enough seats to have some bit of influence or on occasion be a member of a coalition with one of the two major parties.
Multi-Party State (ex. France):
A country in which there are many parties that win seats, with it being rare (though not impossible) for any one party to win a majority and in which there are three or more major parties.
Non-Partisan State (ex. Marshall Islands):
A country in which there are no political parties or in which political parties either do not win seats in elections or only win a small amount, with the majority or all members of the legislature being Independents.
Flawed Democracy (ex. Russia):
This is a broad category, with varying levels (ex. Turkey is much less flawed and more free than Zimbabwe, despite both being in this category) that are designated by how the coloring is shown so a country with the Flawed color in-filled is very flawed while one with the color outlining represents one that's only partially so; the definition for Flawed Democracy is based on the political rights of the legal residents/citizens of the country to vote and how free and fair the electoral process is.
Theodemocracy (Iran):
A country in which there are elections, but in which religious tenants and proscriptions are ingrained into the legal system and constitutional order in such a degree that those seeking office must fall within established religious requirements (which does not always require you BE a member of the state religion).
The below map shows the political systems (IE if they're democracies (and what kind), Dictatorships, etc.) of the world as of December 26th, 2015.
Some notes on terminology;
Dominant Party State (ex. South Africa):
A country in which a single party dominates the political system, this can either be due to legitimate popularity or the system being rigged; while it is possible for other parties to win seats and in a few cases quite alot of seats, in these states the Dominant party none the less retains the majority of seats and power.
Two-party state (ex. United States):
A country in which two parties dominate the political system to the point that they are the only parties of power; a third party may win a small amount of seats occasionally, but never anywhere near enough to be influential.
Two Point Five Party State (ex. United Kingdom):
A country in which two parties are the main/primary parties but in which it's possible for a third party to win enough seats to have some bit of influence or on occasion be a member of a coalition with one of the two major parties.
Multi-Party State (ex. France):
A country in which there are many parties that win seats, with it being rare (though not impossible) for any one party to win a majority and in which there are three or more major parties.
Non-Partisan State (ex. Marshall Islands):
A country in which there are no political parties or in which political parties either do not win seats in elections or only win a small amount, with the majority or all members of the legislature being Independents.
Flawed Democracy (ex. Russia):
This is a broad category, with varying levels (ex. Turkey is much less flawed and more free than Zimbabwe, despite both being in this category) that are designated by how the coloring is shown so a country with the Flawed color in-filled is very flawed while one with the color outlining represents one that's only partially so; the definition for Flawed Democracy is based on the political rights of the legal residents/citizens of the country to vote and how free and fair the electoral process is.
Theodemocracy (Iran):
A country in which there are elections, but in which religious tenants and proscriptions are ingrained into the legal system and constitutional order in such a degree that those seeking office must fall within established religious requirements (which does not always require you BE a member of the state religion).
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