Map Continuation X - World / General

Okay I think we need to address a major element of Map Continuation X: Logicial Republics

So, what we have so far that at some point in history several key European nations, particularly France, Castille and Hungary, underwent revolutions to install Logic(al)ism. But as it stands, I have no idea what that theory is.

Although I don't know what it is, I have written a brief history of Hungary which looks upon the causes of the Logical Revolution in Hungary although I haven't noted the dates this took place.

Fall of the Hungarian Empire
At its height, the Empire of Hungary spanned into what is now southern Bohemia as far south as OTL FYROM and Kosovo. However, the imperialistic King Lucius XI sought the Papal-owned territory of Istria which was classically part of Croatia, a Hungarian possession. The war with the Pontifical States and its allies over Istria led to great unpopularity with the Catholic European powers. Hungary lost the war and due to this lost much prestige, many comrades and vast swathes of land in the north were ceded to Bohemia, the Papal Controller at the time.

To the south, the Ottoman Empire saw Hungary, its only bastion from expansion in Europe, was weak, and within weeks of the Magyar-Papal War's end, began its invasion into the Hungarian south. Overwhelmed in manpower and weary in her defeat, Hungary was diminished and brought to its knees and forced to forfeit much land and much of its wealth to the Ottomans in order to preserve its sovereignty.

Hungarian Logical Revolution
The failures in the two wars and mass amounts of death and destruction which burdened the Hungarian people pushed them to resent the monarchy. A particular aspiring Hungarian chronicler and philosopher Ottó Schickedanz was studying in Madrid at the dawn of the Castillian Logical Revolution. Engaging with the theory, he fought on the side of the Logicalists. Familiarised with the theory, he returned to Hungary and began to spread the word of this new theory and developed a following. His high profile led to interest from the Hungarian monarchy, and his anti-royal message pushed for him to be executed for treason for conspiracy against the monarchy. The hysteria around this case led to further intrigue from common Magyars and in his martyrdom, Schickedanz's death triggered a revolt in Hungary, which overthrew the monarchy, overturned the political system and installed a Logical Republic and a new constitution.

THOUGHTS?!
 
El Serenìsimo Grandogado de Venexia The Most Serene Grand-Duchy of Venice

Population of Veneto-Proper : 3.5 Million
Population of Colonial Holdings : 18 Million
Currency : Venetian Lira (£)
Form of Government : Constitutional Monarchy
Legislature : Bicameral - Maggior Consiglio (Upper, appointed), Arengo (Lower, elected)
Suffrage : All males over the age of 18
Head of State : (Doge) Enrico IV
Head of Government : (Primo Ministro) Pietro Colombo
Religion (Veneto) : 100% Catholic
Religion (Colonies) : 89% Catholic, 9% Sunni, 2% Indigenous Beliefs

AFRICA


Gulf Of Guinea : Ixołe di Speranze - The Hope Islands
Western Indian Ocean: Ixołe di Trinità - The Trinity Islands
Tripolitania : Tripolitania - As OTL
Niger Basin : Isaveria - From Isa Ber, the Songhai name for the Niger River
Equatorial Africa : Venezuoła - Little Venice (i.e. IOTL Venezuela )

MEGANESIA

Maluku Islands :
San Bastiàn è el Ixołe del Giubiłeo - San Sebastian and the Jubilee Islands.

CARIBBEAN

Guadaloupe : San Marco - Saint Mark

More info to come later
 
well i dont know a lot about Hannover's history dam

can somebody please make the important details for me?

(i never mannaged the american thread in time dam again)
 
Republica del Marajoara
Republic of Marajoara

Population : 2.5 Million
Currency : Marajó Peso ($)
Form of Government : Constitutional Presidential Republic
Legislature : Congress
Suffrage : All males over the age of 18
Head of State : (President)
José Felix
Religion : 84% Catholic, 13% Indigenous, 3% Other
 
well i dont know a lot about Hannover's history dam

can somebody please make the important details for me?

Er, part of the fun of this is creating nations yourself. And part of the fun of that is learning something about the places you create. Here's a map of Germany at the time of our PoD - as you can see, Hanover is part of the Duchy of Braunschweig-Lüneburg. I'd suggest finding out just a little bit about the Welf family and the Braunschwieg dukes and going from there.

(i never mannaged the american thread in time dam again)

I was looking out for you. I knew you wanted colonies so I claimed the islands of Antigua and Barbuda (and possibly Montserrat) for Hanover. They're very small, but it's about as much as could realistically be expected.
 

Freizeit

Banned
Reposting this:

thenewwestmidlands2.PNG
 
So, what we have so far that at some point in history several key European nations, particularly France, Castille and Hungary, underwent revolutions to install Logic(al)ism. But as it stands, I have no idea what that theory is.

My assumption is that it has descended from some form of 18th century-style neoclassical Enlightenment thinking, taken to the extreme. Maybe invoking Plato and his philosopher-kings.

Fall of the Hungarian Empire
At its height, the Empire of Hungary spanned into what is now southern Bohemia as far south as OTL FYROM and Kosovo. However, the imperialistic King Lucius XI sought the Papal-owned territory of Istria which was classically part of Croatia, a Hungarian possession.

You and I should coordinate this history. At the time of the PoD, Hungary actually belonged to the Luxemburg dynasty (the kingship was elective), and in TTL the Luxemburgs in many ways fill the role of the Habsburgs. The reason (one reason, anyway) that the H's remained so long as kings of Hungary was that they were seen as the Hungarians' best hope of defending against the Turks. One thought I had was that the Luxemburg emperors remained for some years in exactly this role - but that Hungary was less in need of a strong outside defender because the Ottomans were constantly occupied fighting a consistently strong Egypt. The Luxemburgs just weren't seen as necesary to the country anymore. So eventually they were outmaneuvered politically by another dynasty, whether one from Poland, Hungary, or Germany, and this other dynasty took over in Hungary.

What do you see as the time frame for the Papal-Hungarian War? Would you be interested in working my ideas into that history?

The war with the Pontifical States and its allies over Istria led to great unpopularity with the Catholic European powers. Hungary lost the war and due to this lost much prestige, many comrades and vast swathes of land in the north were ceded to Bohemia, the Papal Controller at the time.

If we add my ideas, the Luxemburgs could have seen this as revenge on the ungrateful Hungarian nobles who had rejected them.

To the south, the Ottoman Empire saw Hungary, its only bastion from expansion in Europe, was weak, and within weeks of the Magyar-Papal War's end, began its invasion into the Hungarian south. Overwhelmed in manpower and weary in her defeat, Hungary was diminished and brought to its knees and forced to forfeit much land and much of its wealth to the Ottomans in order to preserve its sovereignty.

That'll show'em! Again, this sounds like relatively recent history - the late 1700s or so.

Hungarian Logical Revolution
The failures in the two wars and mass amounts of death and destruction which burdened the Hungarian people pushed them to resent the monarchy. A particular aspiring Hungarian chronicler and philosopher Ottó Schickedanz was studying in Madrid at the dawn of the Castillian Logical Revolution. Engaging with the theory, he fought on the side of the Logicalists. Familiarised with the theory, he returned to Hungary and began to spread the word of this new theory and developed a following. His high profile led to interest from the Hungarian monarchy, and his anti-royal message pushed for him to be executed for treason for conspiracy against the monarchy. The hysteria around this case led to further intrigue from common Magyars and in his martyrdom, Schickedanz's death triggered a revolt in Hungary, which overthrew the monarchy, overturned the political system and installed a Logical Republic and a new constitution.

That sounds about right. Where do you think the original center of the movement would be: Occitania or Spain?
 
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My assumption is that it has descended from some form of 18th century-style neoclassical Enlightenment thinking, taken to the extreme. Maybe invoking Plato and his philosopher-kings.

That's kinda the image I got from it but I wasn't too sure.



You and I should coordinate this history. At the time of the PoD, Hungary actually belonged to the Luxemburg dynasty (the kingship was elective), and in TTL the Luxemburgs in many ways fill the role of the Habsburgs. The reason (one reason, anyway) that the H's remained so long as kings of Hungary was that they were seen as the Hungarians' best hope of defending against the Turks. One thought I had was that the Luxemburg emperors remained for some years in exactly this role - but that Hungary was less in need of a strong outside defender because the Ottomans were constantly occupied fighting a consistently strong Egypt. So eventually the Luxemburgs were outmaneuvered politically by another dynasty, whether one from Poland, Hungary, or Germany, and this other dynasty took over in Hungary.

Yeah that sounds decent. We should get to work on this via PM or another medium if you wish.

What do you see as the time frame for the Papal-Hungarian War? Would you be interested in working my ideas into that history?

I had no initial timeframe; I wrote that piece above so that it could be manipulated into any point in time prior to 1900.


If we add my ideas, the Luxemburgs could have seen this as revenge on the ungrateful Hungarian nobles who had rejected them.

I saw it more as a peoples revolt as opposed to a revolution led by nobles, but it depends on how it works in the Franco-Castillian front.


That sounds about right. Where do you think the original center of the movement would be: Occitania or Spain?

In my head, I thought it was in France, where it was most devastating, ripping the state in two. It then spread to the neighbouring Castille. Perhaps the revolution took place at the same time in both countries - perhaps in a Trotsky/Leninist view of permanent revolution. When it got to Portugal or Mauretania it was quashed before it spread further.
 
Yeah that sounds decent. We should get to work on this via PM or another medium if you wish.
Sure, PM sounds good. Would you like to start the ball rolling?

I saw it more as a peoples revolt as opposed to a revolution led by nobles, but it depends on how it works in the Franco-Castillian front.

Sorry, I was referring to the Luxemburgs' loss of the kingship, which probably would have been the nobles' doing. The Papal-Hungarian War and the revolt would come after that dynastic change... or am I missing something?

In my head, I thought it was in France, where it was most devastating, ripping the state in two. It then spread to the neighbouring Castille. Perhaps the revolution took place at the same time in both countries - perhaps in a Trotsky/Leninist view of permanent revolution. When it got to Portugal or Mauretania it was quashed before it spread further.

OK, so that would explain how France was split, and also why its colonies are mainly (northern) French speaking even while the Logical Republic is mainly Occitan... there could be a colonial split as well, leading to the first wave of independent nations in the Americas. Those colonies that supported the Revolution might then have become more Occitanized since they stayed connected to the Metropole for a longer time. (I conceived of my country, Manhafluve, as being more Occitan-speaking, so maybe it was connected to the Logical Republic for some time.)
 
Sure, PM sounds good. Would you like to start the ball rolling?


Sorry, I was referring to the Luxemburgs' loss of the kingship, which probably would have been the nobles' doing. The Papal-Hungarian War and the revolt would come after that dynastic change... or am I missing something?

OK, so that would explain how France was split, and also why its colonies are mainly (northern) French speaking even while the Logical Republic is mainly Occitan... there could be a colonial split as well, leading to the first wave of independent nations in the Americas. Those colonies that supported the Revolution might then have become more Occitanized since they stayed connected to the Metropole for a longer time. (I conceived of my country, Manhafluve, as being more Occitan-speaking, so maybe it was connected to the Logical Republic for some time.)

Okay, that all sounds good. I'll get PMing you ASAP.
 
I think we need a map of the world c. 1400 in order to figure out the essential developments of national boundaries. Currently I have been using this map here as a source, but it is difficult to overlay it mentally over the map that we are using. If anybody is game for this please do get to work :p
 
Just a little development I did overnight. It's not the most fancy thing but it gets the job done!

BHYCm.png


I will probably edit it at some point to have a fact-file box beside it by tomorrow. I worked out the population of the overall country to be about 8,877,000 judging on census stats from 1900 in the areas and added a bit of fictional growth here and there.
 
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Map of Veneto Proper

Colonial holdings to follow.

EDIT: Yes, the borders are convergent. I'm not particularly good with maps...

VenexiaMap.png
 
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Subdivisions of Manhafluve. That is the final name I am going with. In English, probably the "nh" is just pronounced like an n and the final e is silent - /manafluv/. These subdivisions have a good deal of autonomy, but I haven't explored how the system works yet. That's why I'm not sure whether to call them "provinces" or something else.

The diagonal lines are supposed to be macro versions of "long lots" seen in OTL.

Here are some assumptions I'm making about Manhafluve:

It was colonized by a whole France.
Its colonial leaders sided with the Logicalists in the revolution that split France. After the revolution the colony grew more Occitan and less (northern)-French, both demographically and culturally.
Its people abandoned Logicalism not long after independence.
In colonial times it extended to the Great Lakes, but the English speakers forced both them and the Scots away from the Lakes.
Winnepeg will be interesting in TTL because it's probably divided among three nations.

Etymologies
Nova Marsalha - New Marseilles, originally something more northern-French, changed after the Logicalist Revlolution
Cado - After the Caddo people
Riuroja - Red River
Acases - Same source as "Arkansas," "Kansas" and "Ozarks"
Las Pradas - "the prairies"
Nova Gasconha - New Gascony
Ilinuec - After Iliniwek people
Portatge - Name dating from pre-revolution days when the whole of OTL northern Illinois was economically important as a portage between the Illinois valley and the Great Lakes
Sant Ramon - After St. Raymond of Toulouse, a curious choice of name for post-Revolution colonists. It reflects the increased Occitan presence after the division of France but shows that anti-religious sentiment did not quite penetrate the colonies.
Dakota - after the Dakota people
Socrata - A good Logicalist name given originally to the entire northern frontier
Negretia - after the Black Hills
Asiniboin - after the tribe
Uetaskuin - Cree for "place of peace" in honor of a landmark treaty
Kisaskatcha - same source as Saskatchewan

Manhafluve flat.png
 
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Here is my language map for Scotland-Norway, or at least the "metropolitan" part.

Scottish is Scots and Ersish is Scottish Gaelic, btw. The cluster in Iceland is around Rejkjavik, which has a large foreign merchant population.

lingua scotia.png
 
Could somebody generate ethnic/language/religious maps for Zenobia and Morelia like there was for Africa, Asia and Europe please? To know the cultural heritage for the nations surrounding Westmorelia and Transandea would make it much easier for me to develop the history of the nation. My idea for Westmorelia would be that it is a mutli-ethnic, multi-cultural "South Africa in the Americas".
 
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