Gorbachev winning the presidency then is ASB. Otherwise, interesting idea.
List alternate PMs or Presidents
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Gorbachev winning the presidency then is ASB. Otherwise, interesting idea.
I have a soft spot for the old man, it was a wing and pray idea, I know in most cases it'd be super unlikely, I think a new term for Gennady Zyuganov would be more likely
Wendell, I imagined that the US-Soviet relation is more like that of Sino-American relations- they're still technically rivals, but they cooperate economically.
There would still be an invasion of Afghanistan, (Andropov supported the war in OTL in 1979) which means the mujahadeen are still established, but no war on terror. Islamic terrorists wouldn't risk involving the two superpowers to fight them. Afghanistan wouldn't have harbored Osama bin Laden with the threat of the Soviets on their borders.
There would still be an invasion of Afghanistan, (Andropov supported the war in OTL in 1979) which means the mujahadeen are still established, but no war on terror. Islamic terrorists wouldn't risk involving the two superpowers to fight them. Afghanistan wouldn't have harbored Osama bin Laden with the threat of the Soviets on their borders.
..... you mean one with out the NHS? or Brown people... so here MY better Britain!
1945: Clement Attlee
1950: Clement Attlee
1955: Clement Attlee
1961: Aneurin Bevan
1963: Harold Wilson
1966: Harold Wilson
1971: Harold Wilson
1975: Harold Wilson
1978: Michael Foot
1981: Michael Foot
1986: Michael Foot
1990: Tony Benn
1993: Tony Benn
1997: George Galloway
2000: George Galloway
2005: George Galloway
2009: Diane Abbott
PoD: The Mexican government does a worse job than they already did at handling the devastation following the 1985 Mexico City earthquake. As a result discontent against the PRI increases even more, and they lose the presidency 12 years early.
Presidents of México
1982-1988: Miguel de la Madrid Hurtado(PRI)
1988-1994: Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas Solórzano(FDN)
1994-2000: Andrés Manuel López Obrador (PRD)
2000-2006: Luis Felipe Bravo Mena (PAN)
2006-2012: Luis Donaldo Colosio Murrieta (PRI)*
2012-2018: Marcelo Ebrard Casaubón (PRD)
*Butterflies prevent his assassination in 1994.
Presidents of México
1982-1988: Miguel de la Madrid Hurtado(PRI)
1988-1994: Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas Solórzano(FDN)
1994-2000: Andrés Manuel López Obrador (PRD)
2000-2006: Luis Felipe Bravo Mena (PAN)
2006-2012: Luis Donaldo Colosio Murrieta (PRI)*
2012-2018: Marcelo Ebrard Casaubón (PRD)
*Butterflies prevent his assassination in 1994.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
US Presidents
Lyndon B Johnson (1963-68) (D)
Robert F Kennedy (1969-72) (D)
Ronald Reagan (1973-80) (R)
Jerry Brown (1981) (D) (assassinated)
John Glenn (1981-88) (D)
Colin Powell (1989-96) (R)
Lamar Alexander (1997-2000) (R)
Robert F Kennedy Jr (2001-08) (D)
UK Prime Ministers
Harold Wilson (1964-75) (L)
Enoch Powell (1975-79) (C)
Roy Jenkins (1979-87) (L)
Enoch Powell (1987-90) (C)
Margaret Thatcher (1990-96) (C)
David Owen (1996-2003) (L)
Gordon Brown (2003-07) (L)
USSR, General Secretary of the Communist Party
Leonid Brezhnev (1964-69) (assassinated)
Alexei Kosygin (1969-80)
Yuri Andropov (1980-84)
Mikhail Gorbachev (1984-97)
Lyndon B Johnson (1963-68) (D)
Robert F Kennedy (1969-72) (D)
Ronald Reagan (1973-80) (R)
Jerry Brown (1981) (D) (assassinated)
John Glenn (1981-88) (D)
Colin Powell (1989-96) (R)
Lamar Alexander (1997-2000) (R)
Robert F Kennedy Jr (2001-08) (D)
UK Prime Ministers
Harold Wilson (1964-75) (L)
Enoch Powell (1975-79) (C)
Roy Jenkins (1979-87) (L)
Enoch Powell (1987-90) (C)
Margaret Thatcher (1990-96) (C)
David Owen (1996-2003) (L)
Gordon Brown (2003-07) (L)
USSR, General Secretary of the Communist Party
Leonid Brezhnev (1964-69) (assassinated)
Alexei Kosygin (1969-80)
Yuri Andropov (1980-84)
Mikhail Gorbachev (1984-97)
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The PRI lost the Presidency IOTL to Cardenas actually in '88 but they rigged the vote.
And the ones doing the alternate Soviet leaders are forgetting poor Suslov.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
And the ones doing the alternate Soviet leaders are forgetting poor Suslov.
I'm not so much forgetting him -- AIUI, Kuslov was kind of the junior member of the triumvirate (the Lepidus, if you will, next to Kosgyin and Brezhnev)...
Yes, but he would succeed before Andropov is what I'm saying.
I know, I'm running on the assumption that greater public discontent causes the PRI to back track, or forced to do a re-count (i.e. telling the truth).
JoeMulk
Banned
TL-191 presidents
16. Abraham Lincoln 1861-1865
17. Horatio Seymore 1865-1873
18. Thomas Hendricks 1873-1877
19. Samuel Tilden 1877-1881
20. James Blaine 1881-1885
21. Grover Clevland 1885-1889
22. Alfred Thayer Mahen 1889-1897
23. Garret A Hobart 1897-1899 (dies in office)
24. Thomas Brackett Reed 1899-1902 (dies in office)
25. William McKinely 1902-1905
26. John Albert Johnson 1905-1909 (dies in office)
27. James S Sherman 1909-1912 (dies in office)
28. Alton B Parker 1912-1913
29. Theodore Roosevelt 1913-1921
30. Upton Sinclair 1921-1929
31. Hosea Blackford 1929-1933
32. Herbert Hoover 1933-1937
33. Al Smith 1937-1942 (killed in office)
34. Charles LaFollette 1942-1945
35. Thomas Dewey 1945-
16. Abraham Lincoln 1861-1865
17. Horatio Seymore 1865-1873
18. Thomas Hendricks 1873-1877
19. Samuel Tilden 1877-1881
20. James Blaine 1881-1885
21. Grover Clevland 1885-1889
22. Alfred Thayer Mahen 1889-1897
23. Garret A Hobart 1897-1899 (dies in office)
24. Thomas Brackett Reed 1899-1902 (dies in office)
25. William McKinely 1902-1905
26. John Albert Johnson 1905-1909 (dies in office)
27. James S Sherman 1909-1912 (dies in office)
28. Alton B Parker 1912-1913
29. Theodore Roosevelt 1913-1921
30. Upton Sinclair 1921-1929
31. Hosea Blackford 1929-1933
32. Herbert Hoover 1933-1937
33. Al Smith 1937-1942 (killed in office)
34. Charles LaFollette 1942-1945
35. Thomas Dewey 1945-
Presidents of Germany, 1919-present:
Friedrich Ebert (SDP) 1919-1925
Paul von Hindenburg (nonpartisan) 1925-1934
Adolf Hitler (NSDAP) 1934-1938*
Ludwig Beck (DNVP) 1938-1946
Hjalmar Schacht (DNVP) 1946-1953
Theodor Heuss (DDP) 1953-1960
Heinrich Luebke (DNVP) 1960-1967
Walter Scheel (DDP) 1967-1974
Karl Carstens (Zentrum) 1974-1981
Helmut Schmidt (SDP) 1981-1988
Richard von Weizsaecker (Zentrum) 1988-1995
Horst Mahler (DNVP) 1995-2002
Johannes Rau (SDP) 2002-2009
Bernhard Vogel (DDP) 2009-2016
*Preferred the title "Fuehrer" to that of President, and served simultaneously as Chancellor.
Friedrich Ebert (SDP) 1919-1925
Paul von Hindenburg (nonpartisan) 1925-1934
Adolf Hitler (NSDAP) 1934-1938*
Ludwig Beck (DNVP) 1938-1946
Hjalmar Schacht (DNVP) 1946-1953
Theodor Heuss (DDP) 1953-1960
Heinrich Luebke (DNVP) 1960-1967
Walter Scheel (DDP) 1967-1974
Karl Carstens (Zentrum) 1974-1981
Helmut Schmidt (SDP) 1981-1988
Richard von Weizsaecker (Zentrum) 1988-1995
Horst Mahler (DNVP) 1995-2002
Johannes Rau (SDP) 2002-2009
Bernhard Vogel (DDP) 2009-2016
*Preferred the title "Fuehrer" to that of President, and served simultaneously as Chancellor.
Until he dies probably, which was a few months before Brezhnev... of course you could have him fall down the stairs before becoming General Secretary or die earlier due to stress...
Thought as much. Just informing those not in the know
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Yeah, stairs or no, I don't see Kuslov prevailing in a fight with Kosgyin.... How's this:
USSR, General Secretary of the Communist Party
Leonid Brezhnev (1964-69) (assassinated)
Mikhail Suslov (1969-71)
Alexei Kosygin (1971-80)
Yuri Andropov (1980-84)
Mikhail Gorbachev (1984-95)
Vladimir Ivashko (1995-99)
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Thought as much. Just informing those not in the know
It's cool, for the record I had actually forgotten about the electoral fraud in the Election of '88 until you pointed it out, so thank you for jogging my own memory.
That could do it but IIRC Kosygin had more power in '69 than Suslov... I could see Suslov getting backed though. In any case, if Suslov is deposed then Andropov and Gorbachev's careers get serious setbacks since they were proteges of him, so to speak. I was thinking more like:
Leonid Brezhnev (1964-69) (assassinated)
Alexei Kosygin (1969-80)
Mikhail Suslov (1980-82)
Yuri Andropov (1982-84)
But if you really want to have Andropov rule longer than you could have Suslov die around '80 or something.
This reminds me, I made my own list a while back for a Sino-Soviet War TL.
USSR, General Secretary of the Communist Party
Leonid Brezhnev (1964-1969)*
Alexei Kosygin (1969-1971)
Mikhail Suslov (1971-1977)*
Yuri Andropov (1977-1980)**
Mikhail Gorbachev (1980-1984)
Grigori Romanov (1984)
*Assassinated
** Died in office (stress or some handwavium like that)
Kosygin is deposed when the Chinese Occupation turns nastier. Gorby loses the first party election to Romanov narrowly. Thought it would fitting for the last leader of the USSR to be a Romanov
Union of Sovereign States
Premier
Grigory Romanov (1984-1988) (Communist)
Mikhail Gorbachev (1988-1991) (Social Democratic)
President
Mikhail Gorbachev (1991-2002) (Social Democratic)
Alexander Lebedev (2002-2010) (Social Democratic)
Ella Pamfilova (2010-) (Liberal)
A loose confederation that had lost all pretentions of real statehood by 1991 as all of the old Republics had become independent by then. Now it's about as centralized as the EU. Centralization has been increasing lately.
Russia, President
Grigori Romanov (1981-1984) (Communist)
Viktor Grishin (1984-1985 interim) (Communist)
Mikhail Gorbachev (1985-2000) (Communist/Social Democratic)
Alexander Lebedev (2000-2004) (Social Democratic)
Grigory Yavlinsky (2004-) (Liberal)
Touché and don't confuse Powell's position he wasn't a white supremacist, he was as opposed to Norwegian immigration as African.
Touché and don't confuse Powell's position he wasn't a white supremacist, he was as opposed to Norwegian immigration as African.
that might be but a British supremacist is even worse than a white supremacist.
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