Islamic names for western places/nations

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Chris, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Chris Banned

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    Let us imagine a world where islam spread over most of western europe in 800-1100ADish. (NOT 2019!) What might places be called; america, europe, cambridge, etc, etc?

    (And no Al-Bion jokes please.)

    Chris
     
  2. Roberto FREE SUSAN O.

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    Frankistan, Al-Taliyya, Dannistan, Al-Harmoniyya, Al-Vetia, Al-Burgandiyya.

    First one's obvious, second one's Italy, third one's Denmark, fourth one's extremely corrupted Germany, fifth one's Switzerland (Helvitia), and the last one's Burgundy.
     
  3. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    The ones ending in "-stan" only make sense if the dominant language is Turkic or Iranian, which would be hard to pull in that interval.
     
  4. Roberto FREE SUSAN O.

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    Fine. Al-Franciyya, and Al-Dayyeni. Does that suit you? :rolleyes:
     
  5. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    The bhoy's rage has been calmed.
     
  6. Chris Banned

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    Excellent. What about places in the US? What might a muslim version of Christopher Columbus be called?

    Chris
     
  7. Ran Exilis Minister of Moral Corruption

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    Well, certainly not Christopher or any other Christian name.

    A Muslim equivalent of Christopher Columbus could have any Islamic or religiously neutral first name that was common in Islamic Spain or the Maghreb at the time.
     
  8. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Actually, there's a decent list of Arabic place names for countries on Wikipedia, most of which are the same as the ones they used in the 700s OTL. Note that most of them are French-influenced (e.g. the Arabic for England is 'Injiltera', from French 'Angleterre') because the Christians that the Arabs met mostly spoke French.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_names_in_various_languages
     
  9. Leo Caesius Banned

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    Actually, I'd suggest Italian Inghilterra as the origin of the Arabic. A lot of toponyms (such as Fransā for France, from Francia), trade goods (banadūrah for tomato, from pomodoro), and nautical terminology (such as ustubba for oakum, from stoppa) in Arabic come from various Italian dialects, although I suspect that the main vehicle of transmission was the Sabir.
     
  10. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Well, obviously I bow to your superior knowledge of such things; I was just guessing from the context, given that the Arabic for Germany is Al-Alamaniya (IIRC) and similar...
     
  11. Leo Caesius Banned

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    As opposed to al-Jirmaniyya or something like it, which you'd expect from standard Italian. It's a good guess, actually. Since the Sabir was mainly a language of convenience, it wasn't picky about linguistic consistency. A big part of the vocab came from Italian but it added and dropped terms as it needed. Since you get Alemagne in French, Alemanha in Occitan, and Alemania in Spanish, but Germania in standard Italian, the Arabs probably went with the more widespread term. Heck, I woudn't be surprised if it were known as Almagna in some of the more nautically-inclined northern dialects of Italian (if one can anthropomorphize a dialect).
     
  12. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    It's certainly an interesting thought. The other reason I thought Injiltera=Angleterre was because I know that in the Egyptian and Libyan dialects of Arabic (I'm probably being overly simplistic here, I know) that J tends to become G...
     
  13. Leo Caesius Banned

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    It has a variety of interesting outcomes throughout the Arabic world (j as in jinx, s as in pleasure, dy as d'you know what I mean?, and so on). It was probably originally a G (like you find in Hebrew and Aramaic) but became a J in modern standard Arabic and is pronounced that way by most Arabs, except for Egyptians, who pronounce it as a G (possibly due to Coptic influence, though your guess is as good as mine).

    Q is another funny one; it can be pronounced as you'd expect it, or like a K (some Palestinians pronounce the Arabic name of Jerusalem, Quds, as Kids), or like a G (especially in the Gulf and Iraq, hence Goods), or even not at all (so some Lebanese will pronounce the same name as Idis).

    Apropos of place names, Venice is the one place that defies expectations... you'd expect Finizia or something of the sort (no V in Arabic), but instead you get Bundūq, which is presumably from Latin Veneticum via German Venedig. The same word is the root of the Spanish word for meatballs, Albóndigas, not because meatballs came from Venice via the Arab world, but because the general Arabic word for rifle is a "Venetian" (Bundūqiyya), due to the Italian domination of the Mediterranean arms trade, and allegedly the meatballs were made to resemble bullets.
     
  14. Ridwan Asher Jungle Arab

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    They would may become :

    Al-Firanjiyah/Al-Firansiyah, Al-Italiyah, Al-Daniyah, Al-Allamaniyah/Al-Jirmaniyah, Al-Halfatiiyah, Al-Burghaniyah (From French Burgogne)
     
  15. Retina Banned

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    There`s going to be Caliph of Caliphornia for sure. :D
     
  16. Ridwan Asher Jungle Arab

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    So, it would still be named "California" by the Muslims ? ;):p
     
  17. Advernt Well-Known Member

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    What about alternative names for the New World?
     
  18. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    I suppose for irony value it could be Al-Kardinaliyah or something :D
     
  19. Ridwan Asher Jungle Arab

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    :confused: ?
     
  20. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Caliph in Islam, Cardinals in Catholicism. Irony. (I know Pope would be a better parallel, but as Arabic doesn't have the letters P or O, it would be something like Al-Bubiya if I had done that joke, which sounds more like the sort of thing a Muslim Torq would call a country ;) )