If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)

unless you assume butterflies prevent either his parents from meeting at all (and I can't find a date for when that happened so am not sure if it's pre- or post-POD)
From the folio society site (http://www.foliosociety.com/author/rudyard-kipling):
Rudyard Kipling was born in the grounds of the Sir Jamsetjee Jeejebhoy School of Art in Bombay on 30 December 1865. His father, Lockwood Kipling, was Professor of Architectural Sculpture at the school and had met his wife Alice Macdonald two years before whilst staying near Lake Rudyard in Staffordshire, hence Kipling’s unusual first name.

So they met post-PoD. Though I agree that stopping that happening, and his subsequent birth, would require only a slight alteration to a butterfly's flight. The butterflies caused by Indian troops being employed in North America will be a bit harder to stop, though, so even if he becomes a writer, his work will be different.
 
You need to include this in your TL. Pretty please? :D
Hm, let's see...
So Seward decides to buy Alaska making the deal in a hurry to avoid the British getting it, but he has trouble securing a loan, and he has to get the money from the Rothschilds. But the Rothschilds were expecting to be paid back by the American government, who say "sod that we need veterans money" and don't pay. So the Rothschilds find themselves about to repossess Alaska, and with debts of their own to pay off they use the rights to that section of America for collateral on a deal which falls through, which was with the Swiss Banks. So Switzerland has Alaska, takes one look at it, and sells it to the French - or specifically Napoleon III, who then sells it on in turn to Maximilian III in return for collecting on the silver mines for a year or so. Maximilian takes the deal because the silver mines in question are currently ankle deep in Republican Mexicans, and when the dust settles nobody's quite sure what's happened but the Yukon is now Hispanic.
LOVE the Spoiler

I second RvM - fantastic spoiler XD. Probably pushing plausibility a bit far, but fantastic nonetheless.:cool:
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Ah, AH.com.

Escalating firestorm in Poland? Meh.
Kipling might not be born? RESEARCH TIME!

:p


More seriously, I'm thinking that there's not going to necessarily be a quick resolution to the Cairo issue.
Alaska hasn't come up yet. I'm likely to do something with it that's a bit ATL, but what precisely I'm not sure of. (Funny thing, the Roschilds were already involved OTL as the Russians were in debt to them - they might accidentally end up with Alaska as collateral anyway.)
And the Polish issue is the one most likely to move towards a quick resolution - which is to say, the Polish government saying "yes, we'll do it" under threat of Russian focus further west.
The Spirit of Carolina controversy, meanwhile, may well be... tied up with other things.

And the Mexican issue - well, the longer Maximillian spends on the throne with French direct support the better off he is, and really if the Prussians and other matters are less threatening Napoleon III might double his OTL commitment of about 6% of the French army to Mexico.
 
If it helps, I think you have to assume some pretty aggressive butterflies to wipe Rudyard out of existence - he was born in December 1865 in Bombay to John Lockwood Kipling and Alice MacDonald who had married in March of the same year and named him after the lake in Staffordshire where they met. So basically I think unless you assume butterflies prevent either his parents from meeting at all (and I can't find a date for when that happened so am not sure if it's pre- or post-POD) or JLK being offered a professorship at the Sir Jamsetjee Jeejebhoy School of Art, then somebody called Rudyard Kipling is likely to be born and grow up in India in the late 1860's. He doesn't have to be a poet and writer of course.
Well... sort of.

Firstly, any child born of that couple about then is going to be a totally different person. So they wouldn't be 'Rudyard Kipling', even in a genetic sense, let alone having the upbringing. (Nurses and servants are likely different, etc.)


Moreover, the first child has a 50/50 chance of being a girl. Who might be named 'Rudyard', as that's not specifically male or female.

AFAIK, he only had one sibling (Alice), who was born 3 years later. A hypothetical 'Rudyard' (supposing the first child's a girl and NOT named that) would be born 3 years later, quite possibly, as OTL Alice was, and have a very differnt upbringing (2nd kid, not first, etc.)

So. Not really.
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
As an American myself, I find it extremely unlikely that the United States would not harbor a lasting grudge against the UK for contributing to the division of their country.

This would be different than the situations of post Revolutionary War, ...
...
If in a hypothetical ASB situation; lets say that the UK had a civil war, and that Scotland rebelled against the crown, and it was only with the USA's help that Scotland was able to secede from the UK and become independent, and on top of that, the UK was forced to cede Wales to Scotland as well. How would a typical Englishman feel after such a debacle and what would he think of the United States if they were the ones that enabled this to happen.

Do you believe that England could possibly resume normal relations with the USA in such a hypothetical scenario and wouldn't be burning with revenge?
How about France, then other powers doing the same to the British Empire during the American secession? No matter how you feel about it, realpolitik is what happens in these circumstances. If the USA feels they can retake it without or with little consequence, then they will. Britain did not. Largely due to the French factor. Although by 1812 the USA could prove too expensive with a lesser ally in support. Only they were temporarily unavailable.
 
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Saphroneth

Banned
How about France, then other powers doing the same to the British Empire during the American secession? No matter how you feel about it, realpolitik is what happens in these circumstances. If the USA feels they can retake it without or with little consequence, then they will.
That does bring up an interesting point, because there's a strong driver that can potentially convince the US not to attack Britain - which is that the British have demonstrated their ability to rush firepower west into Canada extremely quickly. Even if that means the US might consider intervening at a time there's an "opening" to do so, they're still going to have to be aware that the British fleet can turn up off their coast at about week four or five of the crisis. (And with the already-being-replanned transatlantic telegraph, week two.)
 

perfectgeneral

Donor
Monthly Donor
Now that Britain has a Confederate ally on the ground in TTL, a temporary advantage has been made permanent.

Edit to add:
That does underline that Britain needs the Confederacy.
Before I read the post below. That gets it.
 
The ally is not permanent...
I am waiting with bated breath for this - the shock in the CSA when they realise that Britain wasn't actually there to help them is going to be ... considerable, I think.:evilsmile:

There's going to be an equal shock in the USA when they realise the same. "You mean you weren't working together? :eek:"
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The interesting thing is what that might do to the national tendency the US has to see itself as the "protagonist" - that is, that it's the besieged bastion of freedom, the leading light of the world and so on.
To discover that the British were playing normal Great Power politics with them might be a little humbling.
 
The interesting thing is what that might do to the national tendency the US has to see itself as the "protagonist" - that is, that it's the besieged bastion of freedom, the leading light of the world and so on.
To discover that the British were playing normal Great Power politics with them might be a little humbling.
I think if anything, the U.S. is going to stumble over the truth, pick itself up, and carry on, etc. etc.

"Was it possible that I was slightly overaggressive? Nonsense!" thought Seward, as he immediately rejected the one good foreign policy idea he'd had in years.
 
9-22 April 1863

Saphroneth

Banned
9 April

HMS Troubridge (formerly the US sloop Tuscaroa) stops off in Charleston as a courtesy visit. The makeup of her crew causes some issues, including as it does a few black seamen and one officer, along with the fact that the Spirit incident has been known about for some time - and the 'trouts' (as they are known) consider the capture of Spirit something for the Royal Navy to be proud of. (Indeed, one able seaman - Jackie Seim - was a slave who survived the wreck of the Trouvadore as a young boy.)


12 April

After objections from some members of the White coalition, the Sejm changes their official proposal on voting rights. They now specify the following as the extent of the franchise - either of:
1) A minimum income, specifying an amount of money which a moderately affluent tradesman can meet but a day-labourer is unlikely to.
2) Any owned land in excess of one quarter of an acre.

This, coupled with giving peasants the land they farm, would result in a drastically expanded franchise. It does not quite have enough votes to pass, facing opposition from extreme wings of both the Reds and the Whites for quite different reasons.

13 April
A brawl takes place in Charleston between some of the 'Trouts' and the locals in the early hours of the morning, which is too serious to be glossed over - able seaman Seim is stabbed, leaving him in a bed aboard Troubridge for some days. Stories are contradictory, but several witnesses agree the Spirit of Carolina came up in discussion.
The mayor of Charleston (Macbeth) initially refuses to apologize, until some pointed conversation takes place with Troubridge's second in command. During this time the second alludes to the 110-lber rifles that replaced Troubridge's 11" guns when she was refit for British service. Macbeth bitterly resents the implied threat, but has to concede that the alternative to an apology (the trial of the perpetrators) is not feasible.
Privately he suspects that the owner of the Spirit may be responsible, but has no proof.


17 April

Battle of Zambrow. Russian troops numbering about 6,000 brush aside a screen of rebels, and force the huszaria supporting them to retreat.


18 April

As the news of Zambrow spreads, the Sejm votes on what will become known as the April Reforms. They pass by five votes, along with a motion to delay their announcement by up to a week if a victory can be achieved in that time.


20 April

Heavy muzzle loading rifles go into full production in the United Kingdom as specialized anti-armour weapons, until such time as Armstrong comes up with a stable and powerful breech. The initial indications are excellent - in tests the RML penetrated the Warrior target with a Palliser shell at considerable range, which has promptly made various ship designers throughout the Admiralty go back to their calculations and begin working out new ship designs.

21 April

Battle of Ostromy in Poland. The Russian column from before (swollen by reinforcements to around 10,000) engages another force of rebels, but this time the rebel commander is considerably more skilled. His system of crude embrasures slows the Russian troops, allowing his huszaria to pick them off as they advance, and he also employs a quite skilled version of a bounding retreat. Critically, he neutralizes the Russian artillery fairly early on - shooting down the gunners and horses, refusing to allow them to move the guns forwards by keeping up steady rifle fire - and so the wood-and-earth defences are not simply blasted apart by shells.
The battle lasts for hours, a long slow grind forwards by the Russian troops trying to get into position for Nessler volleys against the mass targets the guerilla huszaria are denying them. Ammunition comes close to running out entirely for the Polish troops, and ultimately the battle is decided by a cavalry charge. (The cavalry in question are the last-gasp trick of the Polish defenders, a combination of minor nobles used to riding in the front ranks and a large number of peasants decidedly not used to riding into battle behind them, but the morale effect coming after the long battle is too much and the Russians break - to reform some miles to the east.)

The news reaches the Sejm as night falls, and they are delighted - the way the battle went makes it ideal for their 'spin' on the April Reforms.


22 April

April Reforms officially announced.

Also on this day, the State of Virginia holds an artillery trial for their new Krupp guns. Everyone is very impressed, especially Robert E. Lee (who has come down to enjoy the occasion, something of a break from his ongoing troubles with trying to remove Fort Tillinghast from his lawn) and P.G.T.Beauregard - the latter starting to sketch out a novel fort design he has come up with, everything in the fort under bombproofs and sited at a set distance from a 'twin' fort which can deluge it with shells if the need (i.e. Union infantry) arises.
The only thing which mars the performance of the German weapons is their propensity for breech explosions, but this is considered a minor issue by comparison to the Parrott Gun.
 
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A brawl takes place in Charleston between some of the 'Trouts' and the locals in the early hours of the morning, which is too serious to be glossed over - able seaman Seim is stabbed, leaving him in a bed aboard Troubridge for some days. Stories are contradictory, but several witnesses agree the Spirit of Carolina came up
The mayor of Charleston (Macbeth) initially refuses to apologize, until some pointed conversation takes place with Troubridge's second in command. During this time the second alludes to the 110-lber rifles that replaced Troubridge's 11" guns when she was refit for British service. Macbeth bitterly resents the implied threat, but has to concede that the alternative to an apology (the trial of the perpetrators) is not feasible.
Privately he suspects that the owner of the Spirit may be responsible, but has no proof.

Very like the Question Christie
 
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