Otis R. Needleman
Banned
True, but some hotheads won't take the time to tell the difference. So the Chinese and Chinese-Americans will need to identify themselves accordingly, and the media will need to help out.
How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms
- Thread starter Geon
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True, but some hotheads won't take the time to tell the difference. So the Chinese and Chinese-Americans will need to identify themselves accordingly, and the media will need to help out.
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
Just a process of elimination. Not a regular bomb. Not a fire bomb. Not a gas bomb. Gotta be bugs or germs.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
So basically if Uncle Joe says that Hirohito is the Americans' problem, does this mean Japan might be ripe for "Finlandization" in a different setting?
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
Nah. I just don't see the Soviets being allowed into Japan, just like OTL. Uncle Joe will just have to settle for part of Korea and capturing tons of Japanese POWs in China/Manchuria/north Korea.
This is good...spooky, but good.
Hospitals will get overwhelmed quickly and, as mentioned, hospitals are short of many medicines due to the war. The casulity list, while not overwhelming, will still be high. As there isn't much travel due to the war hopefully it won't spread too fast but once the panic hits...
The average US citizen isn't going to give a damn that Japan's civil population had no say in this, to them one Japanese is the same as the next and all are guilty. The gloves are off, there will be no warning about the atomic bombs this time...
Please continue!
Hospitals will get overwhelmed quickly and, as mentioned, hospitals are short of many medicines due to the war. The casulity list, while not overwhelming, will still be high. As there isn't much travel due to the war hopefully it won't spread too fast but once the panic hits...
The average US citizen isn't going to give a damn that Japan's civil population had no say in this, to them one Japanese is the same as the next and all are guilty. The gloves are off, there will be no warning about the atomic bombs this time...
Please continue!
Otis R. Needleman
Banned
This is good...spooky, but good.
Hospitals will get overwhelmed quickly and, as mentioned, hospitals are short of many medicines due to the war. The casulity list, while not overwhelming, will still be high. As there isn't much travel due to the war hopefully it won't spread too fast but once the panic hits...
The average US citizen isn't going to give a damn that Japan's civil population had no say in this, to them one Japanese is the same as the next and all are guilty. The gloves are off, there will be no warning about the atomic bombs this time...
Please continue!
While there was rationing of a number of items during the war, by November 1944 there certainly would have been ample supplies of medicines, except maybe penicillin. Also, if needed civilian hospitals could have gotten medicine and supplies from the many military hospitals in Southern California.
Far as travel goes there would be more than you think. Not so many tourists but many traveling on business and for military purposes.
Would agree, though, that there would be no warning about the atomic bombs. Truman would demand surrender but if the Japanese didn't give in then he'd just start dropping the bombs. And America would cheer every time a Japanese city got their instant sunshine.
The Occupation would be MUCH longer ITTL, and much harder on Japan. We'd be a lot harder on them, especially after learning of the atrocities against Allied POWs, on top of the germ bombs.
iddt3
Donor
Bubonic plague is already endemic in rodents on the west coast, this isn't exactly going to cause the Black Death Mk. II
iddt3
Donor
Again, as several other people in this thread have said, they won't be overwhelmed because Bubonic Plagues was already endemic to the area and the authorities had experience dealing with it.This is good...spooky, but good.
Hospitals will get overwhelmed quickly and, as mentioned, hospitals are short of many medicines due to the war. The casulity list, while not overwhelming, will still be high. As there isn't much travel due to the war hopefully it won't spread too fast but once the panic hits...
The average US citizen isn't going to give a damn that Japan's civil population had no say in this, to them one Japanese is the same as the next and all are guilty. The gloves are off, there will be no warning about the atomic bombs this time...
Please continue!
Adm Halsey. IIRC, said after PH that japanese.would only be spoken in hell. If the japanese did this that would be highly likely to occur. The USA would carpetbomb the islands from one end to the other.
Derek Pullem
Donor
The response would be brutal but I don't believe it would focus on a "like for like" retaliation.
The Americans should be gearing up to produce anthrax bombs for the British as a contingency for Operations Vegetarian. In a bizarre reverse lend lease you might see the anthrax cake being sent to the Pacific rather than against Germany
Of course the simplest option would be to burn Japan to the ground as in OTL
The Americans should be gearing up to produce anthrax bombs for the British as a contingency for Operations Vegetarian. In a bizarre reverse lend lease you might see the anthrax cake being sent to the Pacific rather than against Germany
Of course the simplest option would be to burn Japan to the ground as in OTL
I will drop one small spoiler here. What makes some of you think Emperor Hirohito will survive the war?
Geon
If he isn't killed (either the US or his own military) I see him committing seppuku...
Adm Halsey. IIRC, said after PH that japanese.would only be spoken in hell. If the japanese did this that would be highly likely to occur. The USA would carpetbomb the islands from one end to the other.
Geon
Donor
Update: First Signs and a Fireside Chat
Date: November 6, 1944
Place: Los Angeles
Time: Morning hours
The morning papers would have similar headlines the next morning: Japs Dump Duds on LA. To a population still badly shaken from the previous night's events the papers offered a calming and comic relief to the previous evening. Questions such as, “Where were you when the sirens went off,” began to make the rounds. At one elementary school an eager 2nd grader showed off a piece of one of the duds that had dropped the previous night that his dad had brought home. His mom had said it was okay for him to take it to school for a little show-and-tell. After lunch the same eager young boy was being picked up by his mother at school. He was starting to feel feverish and he couldn’t keep his lunch down.
Fire department officials and the Army were baffled by the fact that none of the bombs had detonated upon impact. The fragments were being examined in a local police laboratory and were so far yielding more questions then answers. The fragments had no sign of a chemical residue indicative of any explosive charge on them and no sign of any recognizable interior workings or explosives had been found at the crash site. By the end of the day both Army and LA police/fire authorities were still baffled as to what the bombs had contained. However, one individual on the investigative team had an idea of what the bombs might have been. At first the very idea seemed outlandish but better to be safe then sorry it was decided. A long distance call was placed at 4:30 p.m. that day over a secure private line to Ft. Detrick, Maryland. By 7 p.m. a team of specialists left Ft. Detrick. By army transport they would be in LA by late next morning.
Date: November 6, 1944
Place: Washington, D.C.
Time: 7:30 p.m.
President of the United States, Franklin Delano Roosevelt decided to give a special fireside chat that evening to the American people. Nerves on the West Coast had been seriously rattled by the Japanese raid. Reports indicated that only minor damage had been done and all 9 planes had been shot down with no survivors left to question. The fact that there had been no serious damage or casualties had helped to prevent a full-blown panic. Reports had come in of panic buying in several West Coast cities and more Japanese planes had been sighted flying over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco triggering an air raid alert there. It turned out the “planes” had been a high flying flock of seagulls. The nation was on edge and needed reassurance.
[Excerpt from President Roosevelt’s special fireside chat from November 6, 1944]
“The attack by Japanese planes last night should serve as a continuing warning to the people of America that this fight is not over. Our enemy wants to throw us into a panic thinking that by doing so he can destroy our morale at home and force us to accept a peace that is far short of absolute victory. The leaders of Japan gambled in 1941 when they attacked Pearl Harbor that we as Americans would capitulate quickly once we realized the scope of the enemy we were facing. However they have badly underestimated both the courage and the resolve of the American people.”
Shortly after the speech at 8:30 p.m. President Roosevelt received word that a member of the National Research Council wanted to see him first thing in the morning and said it was important. The President asked his secretary to arrange some time around 9 a.m.
Date: November 6, 1944
Place: Los Angeles
Time: Morning hours
The morning papers would have similar headlines the next morning: Japs Dump Duds on LA. To a population still badly shaken from the previous night's events the papers offered a calming and comic relief to the previous evening. Questions such as, “Where were you when the sirens went off,” began to make the rounds. At one elementary school an eager 2nd grader showed off a piece of one of the duds that had dropped the previous night that his dad had brought home. His mom had said it was okay for him to take it to school for a little show-and-tell. After lunch the same eager young boy was being picked up by his mother at school. He was starting to feel feverish and he couldn’t keep his lunch down.
------------
Date: November 6, 1944
Place: Washington, D.C.
Time: 7:30 p.m.
President of the United States, Franklin Delano Roosevelt decided to give a special fireside chat that evening to the American people. Nerves on the West Coast had been seriously rattled by the Japanese raid. Reports indicated that only minor damage had been done and all 9 planes had been shot down with no survivors left to question. The fact that there had been no serious damage or casualties had helped to prevent a full-blown panic. Reports had come in of panic buying in several West Coast cities and more Japanese planes had been sighted flying over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco triggering an air raid alert there. It turned out the “planes” had been a high flying flock of seagulls. The nation was on edge and needed reassurance.
[Excerpt from President Roosevelt’s special fireside chat from November 6, 1944]
“The attack by Japanese planes last night should serve as a continuing warning to the people of America that this fight is not over. Our enemy wants to throw us into a panic thinking that by doing so he can destroy our morale at home and force us to accept a peace that is far short of absolute victory. The leaders of Japan gambled in 1941 when they attacked Pearl Harbor that we as Americans would capitulate quickly once we realized the scope of the enemy we were facing. However they have badly underestimated both the courage and the resolve of the American people.”
Shortly after the speech at 8:30 p.m. President Roosevelt received word that a member of the National Research Council wanted to see him first thing in the morning and said it was important. The President asked his secretary to arrange some time around 9 a.m.
Artatochor
Banned
Incredible. I have a lot on my mind, but I'll mention just a few things. In the PX thread that inspired this, someone said that biological attacks aimed at key points could delay the Americans enough so that the Soviets actually occupy Japan. That would be interesting to see, because Cold War could turn into a hot one over the unfinished business left over from the raid.
Also, I'd like to see a take on this idea: the attack would be carried out as a desperate revenge after the nukes fall on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I wonder what would occur then, what would the world think, etc.
I'm no expert, but could the fleas be transmitting Japanese encephalitis? That would be dangerous as hell.
Also, I'd like to see a take on this idea: the attack would be carried out as a desperate revenge after the nukes fall on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I wonder what would occur then, what would the world think, etc.
I'm no expert, but could the fleas be transmitting Japanese encephalitis? That would be dangerous as hell.
Doesn't look like it's that big a deal:
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Japanese-encephalitis/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Artatochor
Banned
Can't be cured directly though. If a version that regularly causes severe symptoms was developed...
Artatochor
Banned
I'd think they'd try paratroopers as a help to the fleet. And luckily for them, the distance needed to cross with the invasion fleet wouldn't be great. The biggest problem would be the fanatical resistance that may stall them.
But, what if...the Japanese surrender to them immediately following war declaration, or even ask entry to the Comintern before the war even starts, just to escape American wrath. Sure it sounds weird, but Japan won't deem the Soviets that bad- they have been observing the Non-Aggression Pact. Soviets could use an ally with good naval tradition if WW3 comes knocking.
There is no way you're going to get a significant spread of plague with this attack. While those immediately infected will get sick, most plague will be bubonic which requires the flea vector. In LA you simply don't have a large flea infested rodent population in close proximity to humans - which is what you had in medieval cities and in current times China. Some of the sufferers may develop the pneumonic form which is spread by exhaled (and subsequently inhaled) droplets which therefore is more easily transmitted. Public health authorities will very rapidly identify the problem, and appropriate measures taken. Expect some panic, and disruption of war production in the LA area. Total sick would be well under 10,000 in my estimation.
The main effect will be on the postwar occupation of Japan - what goes on during the war will be determined by the facts on the ground - the only change might be the use of poison gas on Iwo Jima or Okinawa. The postwar situation in Japan will much more resemble Nuremberg.
The main effect will be on the postwar occupation of Japan - what goes on during the war will be determined by the facts on the ground - the only change might be the use of poison gas on Iwo Jima or Okinawa. The postwar situation in Japan will much more resemble Nuremberg.
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