Henry VIII dies in 1536
- Thread starter VVD0D95
- Start date
no computer until next week.......
But I am taking final arguments for Henry Brandon; Thomas Howard; and Henry Stanley. Against Brandon is the nobility already thinks the family jumped up. For Brandon is that he's Elizabeth's pick.
Also: mary & James are going to make her marchioness of Pembroke....and her husband the Marquess.
And:. Reformers? Where are they hiding?
But I am taking final arguments for Henry Brandon; Thomas Howard; and Henry Stanley. Against Brandon is the nobility already thinks the family jumped up. For Brandon is that he's Elizabeth's pick.
Also: mary & James are going to make her marchioness of Pembroke....and her husband the Marquess.
And:. Reformers? Where are they hiding?
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I'm (waiting for my computer, this one sucks) am thinking about Katy Rose marrying Philip (her mum's man OTL). Whatcha think?
It definitely fits into her foreign policy and would make a great match for Katherine Stewart in terms of prestige.
May 1542
Smallpox. The very word scared the populace; and it was spreading. James and Mary broke up the nursery, sending each of the children to a different location in an effort to keep at least one of their expanding brood alive, with James and Mary retreating to York. The Brandon boys, sent home when the epidemic was recognized, suffered not at all, spending their time getting to know their younger brothers and step-mother Jane. Elizabeth went with her great-grandmother to Lambeth, caught a mild case of it and recovered quickly. But Edward, Duke of Richmond was not so lucky. He died the third day – 19 May - having had the flu when the outbreak reached him. Mary wanted to go to him, but James forbade it, citing the child she was carrying. The others, Jamie, Katy Rose, and Alex, were all by-passed and praise was given from all pulpits at the same time the prayers for Edward’s soul were given.
Smallpox. The very word scared the populace; and it was spreading. James and Mary broke up the nursery, sending each of the children to a different location in an effort to keep at least one of their expanding brood alive, with James and Mary retreating to York. The Brandon boys, sent home when the epidemic was recognized, suffered not at all, spending their time getting to know their younger brothers and step-mother Jane. Elizabeth went with her great-grandmother to Lambeth, caught a mild case of it and recovered quickly. But Edward, Duke of Richmond was not so lucky. He died the third day – 19 May - having had the flu when the outbreak reached him. Mary wanted to go to him, but James forbade it, citing the child she was carrying. The others, Jamie, Katy Rose, and Alex, were all by-passed and praise was given from all pulpits at the same time the prayers for Edward’s soul were given.
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June – September 1542
Once the threat of the illness was over, James and Mary headed north and spent the remainder of her pregnancy in Scotland, visiting various nobles until it was time for her confinement. She gave birth to a hale and hearty girl, Margaret Isabella (Maggie Belle) on the 5th of September. Alexander was made Duke of Albany (Edward had been slated to become Duke of Ross), just as his older brother had received his Scottish title in Edinburgh. The couple felt it was important to include both countries in this manner.
Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey, was overheard boasting that only a Ducal coronet was worthy of the daughter of Henry VIII. He then disparaged the Duke of Suffolk in such terms that all present thought it prudent to report the conversation to agents of the monarchs. Since Charles Brandon had expressed concern that he could not support Elizabeth in the manner she deserved (and, Mary believed, correctly worried about the girl’s mother and whether or not Henry VIII was actually Elizabeth’s father); leading James and Mary to arrange her betrothal as soon as the smallpox epidemic waned. Henry Stanley, son of the Earl of Derby, was the lucky bridegroom. As part of the marriage, they would be made the Marquess and Marchioness of Pembroke, with the income reserved to Elizabeth in the event of a separation or annulment – the title would be reserved for males heir legitimate of Elizabeth, not Henry Stanley. Edward Stanley, the current Earl, agreed to the terms in the contract signed on 1 July 1542; with the wedding date indefinite; being contingent on Elizabeth having her courses for six months before the ceremony.
It was a year earlier than they’d planned, but the first of their own children to have a wedding planned was Katherine Rose; she was betrothed to her second cousin Philip, son of Charles V and Isabella of Portugal. The wedding was set for 1550, her twelfth birthday.
Once the threat of the illness was over, James and Mary headed north and spent the remainder of her pregnancy in Scotland, visiting various nobles until it was time for her confinement. She gave birth to a hale and hearty girl, Margaret Isabella (Maggie Belle) on the 5th of September. Alexander was made Duke of Albany (Edward had been slated to become Duke of Ross), just as his older brother had received his Scottish title in Edinburgh. The couple felt it was important to include both countries in this manner.
Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey, was overheard boasting that only a Ducal coronet was worthy of the daughter of Henry VIII. He then disparaged the Duke of Suffolk in such terms that all present thought it prudent to report the conversation to agents of the monarchs. Since Charles Brandon had expressed concern that he could not support Elizabeth in the manner she deserved (and, Mary believed, correctly worried about the girl’s mother and whether or not Henry VIII was actually Elizabeth’s father); leading James and Mary to arrange her betrothal as soon as the smallpox epidemic waned. Henry Stanley, son of the Earl of Derby, was the lucky bridegroom. As part of the marriage, they would be made the Marquess and Marchioness of Pembroke, with the income reserved to Elizabeth in the event of a separation or annulment – the title would be reserved for males heir legitimate of Elizabeth, not Henry Stanley. Edward Stanley, the current Earl, agreed to the terms in the contract signed on 1 July 1542; with the wedding date indefinite; being contingent on Elizabeth having her courses for six months before the ceremony.
It was a year earlier than they’d planned, but the first of their own children to have a wedding planned was Katherine Rose; she was betrothed to her second cousin Philip, son of Charles V and Isabella of Portugal. The wedding was set for 1550, her twelfth birthday.
October – 17 November 1542
Elizabeth was still not happy about her betrothal; she insisted that, as the daughter of a king, she should have more say in who she married. Since she understood that she was not legitimate, the choice of Henry Stanley was explained in those terms: Dukes (even simply ducal heirs) did not wed bastard daughters of kings in England; that was for lesser kingdoms. In the end, the matter was dropped until the marriage was closer, since Elizabeth still insisted she wanted Henry Brandon.
The Countess of Wiltshire gave birth to her first child, a girl she had wanted to name Anne, but Thomas insisted on naming Margery for his mother. Thomas promised the next daughter could be named Elizabeth, but no Annes for the present. He ignored his wife’s preference for reformation of the Catholic faith, but he couldn’t let her flaunt it. But he made sure Hever had places for hiding the traces of Catherine’s preferred methods of worship.
The Duchess of Suffolk was pregnant and not well. Charles Brandon was worried enough that he begged leave from court to go home. He found his wife with a midwife nearby; the elder woman was worried. Jane’s legs and feet were swollen as before, but the child didn’t seem to be moving as the midwife though it should. And she was well concerned, Jane went into premature labor and died giving birth to a daughter, who, despite everyone’s misgivings, survived her birth and was christened (as her mother had wished) Diana (and as her father wished) Jane on 17 November.
Elizabeth was still not happy about her betrothal; she insisted that, as the daughter of a king, she should have more say in who she married. Since she understood that she was not legitimate, the choice of Henry Stanley was explained in those terms: Dukes (even simply ducal heirs) did not wed bastard daughters of kings in England; that was for lesser kingdoms. In the end, the matter was dropped until the marriage was closer, since Elizabeth still insisted she wanted Henry Brandon.
The Countess of Wiltshire gave birth to her first child, a girl she had wanted to name Anne, but Thomas insisted on naming Margery for his mother. Thomas promised the next daughter could be named Elizabeth, but no Annes for the present. He ignored his wife’s preference for reformation of the Catholic faith, but he couldn’t let her flaunt it. But he made sure Hever had places for hiding the traces of Catherine’s preferred methods of worship.
The Duchess of Suffolk was pregnant and not well. Charles Brandon was worried enough that he begged leave from court to go home. He found his wife with a midwife nearby; the elder woman was worried. Jane’s legs and feet were swollen as before, but the child didn’t seem to be moving as the midwife though it should. And she was well concerned, Jane went into premature labor and died giving birth to a daughter, who, despite everyone’s misgivings, survived her birth and was christened (as her mother had wished) Diana (and as her father wished) Jane on 17 November.
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18 November 1542 – April 1543
James and Mary consented to be godparents of Diana Jane Brandon, and worried about Brandon’s frame of mind with the passing of (another) beloved wife. He returned to court three months later and was surprised to learn that the monarchs had allowed her will to stand and he would inherit all the lands Henry VIII had settled upon her.
December in Scotland found one George Wishart was arrested in for preaching against idols, specifically the Virgin Mary and relics at shrines. He was taken to a local home for holding until transport, but somehow eluded his captors and fled. He wasn’t the first arrested, nor the first to ‘somehow elude his captors and flee’ – James asked the Archbishop of Canterbury to officially begin investigation into this heresy. This heresy was flourishing across both Scotland and England, but the focus of most of the investigations had been England; now Scotland would be included in earnest.
At New Year’s, the plight of Renee Wriothesley was brought to their majesties attention. Since the imprisonment and subsequent death of her parents, she’d been passed between her parent’s cousins, none of whom wanted the stigma of raising a heretic’s daughter. In the end, the Earl of Westmoreland was prevailed upon to take her wardship; his loyalty to the crown and church not being in question. With Renee went her mother’s confiscated Barony, given to the Earl, not the child. Both paternal and maternal relatives appealed this, admitting that the child would have been welcomed if they’d known they’d get the title, but the crown was firm and the girl remained in the Neville household.
Charles V wanted some payback for his ‘attentions’ at the new borders of what was still commonly called ‘Calais’ – he asked for a thousand men to take over for his men at the border, who were needed elsewhere. James split the total and raised 500 Scottish and 500 English soldiers to man the border. It wasn’t a war, but it wasn’t quite peace; Francis still wanted the land back. It took three months to muster the men and supplies, but by April the Duke of Norfolk had the men at their posts for six months; his son Surrey would have the half year after that.
James and Mary consented to be godparents of Diana Jane Brandon, and worried about Brandon’s frame of mind with the passing of (another) beloved wife. He returned to court three months later and was surprised to learn that the monarchs had allowed her will to stand and he would inherit all the lands Henry VIII had settled upon her.
December in Scotland found one George Wishart was arrested in for preaching against idols, specifically the Virgin Mary and relics at shrines. He was taken to a local home for holding until transport, but somehow eluded his captors and fled. He wasn’t the first arrested, nor the first to ‘somehow elude his captors and flee’ – James asked the Archbishop of Canterbury to officially begin investigation into this heresy. This heresy was flourishing across both Scotland and England, but the focus of most of the investigations had been England; now Scotland would be included in earnest.
At New Year’s, the plight of Renee Wriothesley was brought to their majesties attention. Since the imprisonment and subsequent death of her parents, she’d been passed between her parent’s cousins, none of whom wanted the stigma of raising a heretic’s daughter. In the end, the Earl of Westmoreland was prevailed upon to take her wardship; his loyalty to the crown and church not being in question. With Renee went her mother’s confiscated Barony, given to the Earl, not the child. Both paternal and maternal relatives appealed this, admitting that the child would have been welcomed if they’d known they’d get the title, but the crown was firm and the girl remained in the Neville household.
Charles V wanted some payback for his ‘attentions’ at the new borders of what was still commonly called ‘Calais’ – he asked for a thousand men to take over for his men at the border, who were needed elsewhere. James split the total and raised 500 Scottish and 500 English soldiers to man the border. It wasn’t a war, but it wasn’t quite peace; Francis still wanted the land back. It took three months to muster the men and supplies, but by April the Duke of Norfolk had the men at their posts for six months; his son Surrey would have the half year after that.
Should the Duke of Suffolk wed again (okay, with Charles Brandon that's a redundant question). Whom should Charles wed? She doesn't have to be English, or even younger than springtime.
He's gonna marry some rich English woman. He's not royal and not big enough to warrant a foreign bride. Unless he marries some younger daughter of a French/Italian woman while travelling, he's gonna go home born. He's close to the royal family, so maybe an illegitimate Stewart girl is in order? But other than that, I really can't say for sure.
He ain't as broke as he was. He's got Jane's jointure from Henry viii. James & mary let her will stand and she left it all to Charlie.
Yeah...But he probably will still want to marry into wealth. His father's family didn't come from wealth and power. Charles became Duke of Suffolk because he was Henry VIII's friend.
Most of the Ruling families of Europe would consider him a parvenu.
Hence, a wealthy English heiress would be best...
Any wealthy English heiress...
I don't know as much about the era as others who post here regularly do. I'n sure they can provide a laundry list of names...
What about this one? Could maybe tweak things regarding her adultery?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bourchier,_7th_Baroness_Bourchier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bourchier,_7th_Baroness_Bourchier
May – July 1543
The first overtures for peace in the extended Calais had been made in the latter part of 1542 as Edward Seymour’s first steps back into their majesties’ good graces. He’d done as well as could be expected, with Francis not conceding that the properties beyond the Pale of Calais were anything but French and demanding either the property be returned to France or financial restitution be made. Seymour had spent Christmas in France and returned, in mid-May after completing the second half of his mission (seeing Charles V). Charles, not Francis, requested a new representative for the second round; he found Seymour too eager to please and worried that Francis might get him to commit to something Seymour that had apparently remarked to the Emperor was perfectly understandable from Francis’ point of view. Seymour was thanked and allowed to return home, gaining the title Earl of Hertford (which had been on Henry VIII’s list of ennoblements found among Cromwell’s papers, but had been withheld by the new monarchs). Unknown to the monarchs, this elevation ended a family feud that had begun when Thomas had been elevated before his elder brother.
James decided to send someone who’d met Francis before and seemed to get along with him: Charles Brandon. Mary reminded her husband the last time Brandon went to France he came back her uncle. (It wasn’t the truth, Brandon had been to France several times since then, but she can be forgiven this exaggeration.) James just smiled and said that he hoped he found himself someone indisputably Catholic, beautiful, and rich – a rich widow to go with a rich widower. Mary laughed, but she wasn’t sure if her husband was joking or not. Her own comment was: “Not too rich, we don’t Elizabeth going after his son again.”
Also not pleased with Brandon’s imminent departure was recently widowed Baroness Latimer, formerly Catherine Parr. She, like many other ladies of the court without husbands, had attempted to pique his interest to no apparent end. She did, however, get the attention of the Earl of Wiltshire, Thomas Seymour. She had no interest in a relationship that could only damage her reputation and avoided him as much as possible; although she admitted to Madge Sinclair that the Earl was an attractive man, but as a good Christian woman, she could not allow it. Madge thought her over-cautious. The Earl, however, made a confession to the Archbishop of Canterbury in which he mentioned his concerns about his wife’s reformist tendencies. This led to a raid at Hever during which unmistakable evidence of Catherine Carey Seymour’s anti-Catholic beliefs were found, along with one Johan Drouillard, a Swiss who was a known Calvinist, hiding in a secret room.
The entire household was questioned, and almost everyone implicated someone else in the household. Drouillard alone refused to speak, even under torture, and was burned as a heretic as a result. Countess Seymour claimed not to be a reformer, but admitted hiding Drouillard because she felt she was incapable of judging others. It did not save her; too many in her household had told the same tale of her leading them in the reading of scriptures and discussing the meanings of what had been read. Confronted with their testimony, she admitted to all; even insisting that the women, at least, had only gone along because of her position. Ironically, she insisted that her husband was aware only that she was curious about the “new” religion and had told her to stop having anything to do with it. She officially repented of her heresy and was sent to a convent; Thomas had requested an annulment based upon her heresy trial, claiming that it compromised him and his ability to work for their majesties. She agreed, but requested to be released from the convent and to be sent to Carey relatives. The request was denied, James and Mary wanted her to remain at the convent until the Abbess was sure Catherine was no longer entertaining heretical beliefs. Her daughter Margery was sent to her Uncle Edward and Aunt Anne, as they had children and could care for her better than Thomas (although they did require him to fund their efforts).
The first overtures for peace in the extended Calais had been made in the latter part of 1542 as Edward Seymour’s first steps back into their majesties’ good graces. He’d done as well as could be expected, with Francis not conceding that the properties beyond the Pale of Calais were anything but French and demanding either the property be returned to France or financial restitution be made. Seymour had spent Christmas in France and returned, in mid-May after completing the second half of his mission (seeing Charles V). Charles, not Francis, requested a new representative for the second round; he found Seymour too eager to please and worried that Francis might get him to commit to something Seymour that had apparently remarked to the Emperor was perfectly understandable from Francis’ point of view. Seymour was thanked and allowed to return home, gaining the title Earl of Hertford (which had been on Henry VIII’s list of ennoblements found among Cromwell’s papers, but had been withheld by the new monarchs). Unknown to the monarchs, this elevation ended a family feud that had begun when Thomas had been elevated before his elder brother.
James decided to send someone who’d met Francis before and seemed to get along with him: Charles Brandon. Mary reminded her husband the last time Brandon went to France he came back her uncle. (It wasn’t the truth, Brandon had been to France several times since then, but she can be forgiven this exaggeration.) James just smiled and said that he hoped he found himself someone indisputably Catholic, beautiful, and rich – a rich widow to go with a rich widower. Mary laughed, but she wasn’t sure if her husband was joking or not. Her own comment was: “Not too rich, we don’t Elizabeth going after his son again.”
Also not pleased with Brandon’s imminent departure was recently widowed Baroness Latimer, formerly Catherine Parr. She, like many other ladies of the court without husbands, had attempted to pique his interest to no apparent end. She did, however, get the attention of the Earl of Wiltshire, Thomas Seymour. She had no interest in a relationship that could only damage her reputation and avoided him as much as possible; although she admitted to Madge Sinclair that the Earl was an attractive man, but as a good Christian woman, she could not allow it. Madge thought her over-cautious. The Earl, however, made a confession to the Archbishop of Canterbury in which he mentioned his concerns about his wife’s reformist tendencies. This led to a raid at Hever during which unmistakable evidence of Catherine Carey Seymour’s anti-Catholic beliefs were found, along with one Johan Drouillard, a Swiss who was a known Calvinist, hiding in a secret room.
The entire household was questioned, and almost everyone implicated someone else in the household. Drouillard alone refused to speak, even under torture, and was burned as a heretic as a result. Countess Seymour claimed not to be a reformer, but admitted hiding Drouillard because she felt she was incapable of judging others. It did not save her; too many in her household had told the same tale of her leading them in the reading of scriptures and discussing the meanings of what had been read. Confronted with their testimony, she admitted to all; even insisting that the women, at least, had only gone along because of her position. Ironically, she insisted that her husband was aware only that she was curious about the “new” religion and had told her to stop having anything to do with it. She officially repented of her heresy and was sent to a convent; Thomas had requested an annulment based upon her heresy trial, claiming that it compromised him and his ability to work for their majesties. She agreed, but requested to be released from the convent and to be sent to Carey relatives. The request was denied, James and Mary wanted her to remain at the convent until the Abbess was sure Catherine was no longer entertaining heretical beliefs. Her daughter Margery was sent to her Uncle Edward and Aunt Anne, as they had children and could care for her better than Thomas (although they did require him to fund their efforts).