If 26.000 Commonwealth troops can be evacuated to Crete and they manage to take at least their light equipment with them (no tanks or artillery, just rifles, mortars and some machine guns) any Axis attempt to take Crete is doomed.
Greece Holds: A Tale of a 3-Way Cold War
- Thread starter The Red
- Start date
If 26.000 Commonwealth troops can be evacuated to Crete and they manage to take at least their light equipment with them (no tanks or artillery, just rifles, mortars and some machine guns) any Axis attempt to take Crete is doomed.
Wow, Germany hit twice by nukes (thrice if you count Rommel's cold offensive), chemical/biological warfare unleashed, the Soviets in the nuclear club as well...
And still Nazi Germany refuses to surrender.
6 times actually, counting Rommels incineration. But whoever said the Nazis were rational?
Cook
Banned
I suspect picky little details like that just aren’t going to be looked at too closely in this one Fin.
I suspect picky little details like that just aren’t going to be looked at too closely in this one Fin.
Your probably right, but I just thought I would ask. Because I could understand three if we didn't test one and we used all three on the Nazis, I could even see 4 if we really pressed hard to complete the unfinished one that was being worked on when we dropped "Fat boy" but I can't see how we could logistically get 5 let alone six.
No they were not.
Lookat what I wrote again. In OTL the Crete defenders lacked crucial equipment and a sizable part was essentially unarmed.
According to US sources, America had produced seven bombs by early 1946.
In the OTL Battle of Greece, the allies had 40,000 men (10,000 without proper arms). Here that number would be even smaller, closer to 30,000.
The Second War (Part 3)
Germany nearing the end of 1946 was a nation on it's knees. The conventional attacks from allied bombers had been bad enough, slaughtering tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians. Now however, a new terror was sweeping Germany. Mustard and Chlorine Gas attacks continued to heighten the body count. Now the Nuclear and Anthrax attacks committed by the allies were killing millions. Cities were being razed to the ground by nuclear attacks and the ruins fused with deadly radiation whilst cities under Anthrax attack would become eerily quiet within weeks after mass exoduses.
Increasingly, there was no way to house the endless flow of refugees, already there were many cases of two families needing to share one home and three families sharing a toilet. Soon cases of cholera and typhoid were beginning to haunt the average German. In the fields, the Anthrax and radiation were also taking their toll. Vast amounts of crops were failing and the livestock were dropping dead.
Germany it seemed was facing societal collapse.
Only a few men now truly believed that Germany was near salvation and indeed final victory. Safe in their elaborate Alpine Redoubt, the Nazi elite now contemplate their dwindling options. Food riots are becoming widespread in every city along with the vast majority of the populace trying to flee them for fears of atomic attacks. Typhoid and Cholera are wandering around deserted streets and death is becoming part of everyday life for the large majority of Germans.
However Hitler still has cause for hope, they've have severely battered Britain with their own WMD's and the new Electro boats continue to cause disruption to Britain's fragile food supply. Also Germany's atomic bomb will soon be ready as will the Amerika Rockets which will be able to deliver revenge to the far flung shores the the United States. The Third Reich can still be saved according to the increasingly addled Fuhrer.
Meanwhile in southern France, the advance into deadlock has been completed with only minor attacks by individual units being sanctioned for months. However whilst conventional attacks have become almost non-existant, chemical attacks have greatly increased from both the air and from artillery. Despite De Gualle and Petains protests, southern France is becoming a barren desert.
However it would not be Wunderwaffen that would save Germany as much as a diplomatic one.
Joachim Von Ribbentrop had always been an ardent Nazi, despite his rather upper class origins, however now he had been given the unenviable task to make the allies see sense and explain to them why they should allow a nation broken by their bombing offensive should now be left in control of Europe. However as he toured Germany talking to the Swedish and Swiss ambassadors (both who had made the wise decisions of moving their embassies to small towns after Munich) he saw the destruction that plagued his country and was genuinely disgusted.
It is said that he snapped when he saw children being evacuated from by police officers wearing chemical suits after an American mustard gas attack. from the safety of his own air tight limousine. Overcome with terror from the safety of his own limousine he clumsily opened the door and ran out to try and get as many children inside as he could. Of course, the children were wearing gas masks, he wasn't....
------------------------
Stay tuned for WW2's epic finale!
Germany nearing the end of 1946 was a nation on it's knees. The conventional attacks from allied bombers had been bad enough, slaughtering tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians. Now however, a new terror was sweeping Germany. Mustard and Chlorine Gas attacks continued to heighten the body count. Now the Nuclear and Anthrax attacks committed by the allies were killing millions. Cities were being razed to the ground by nuclear attacks and the ruins fused with deadly radiation whilst cities under Anthrax attack would become eerily quiet within weeks after mass exoduses.
Increasingly, there was no way to house the endless flow of refugees, already there were many cases of two families needing to share one home and three families sharing a toilet. Soon cases of cholera and typhoid were beginning to haunt the average German. In the fields, the Anthrax and radiation were also taking their toll. Vast amounts of crops were failing and the livestock were dropping dead.
Germany it seemed was facing societal collapse.
Only a few men now truly believed that Germany was near salvation and indeed final victory. Safe in their elaborate Alpine Redoubt, the Nazi elite now contemplate their dwindling options. Food riots are becoming widespread in every city along with the vast majority of the populace trying to flee them for fears of atomic attacks. Typhoid and Cholera are wandering around deserted streets and death is becoming part of everyday life for the large majority of Germans.
However Hitler still has cause for hope, they've have severely battered Britain with their own WMD's and the new Electro boats continue to cause disruption to Britain's fragile food supply. Also Germany's atomic bomb will soon be ready as will the Amerika Rockets which will be able to deliver revenge to the far flung shores the the United States. The Third Reich can still be saved according to the increasingly addled Fuhrer.
Meanwhile in southern France, the advance into deadlock has been completed with only minor attacks by individual units being sanctioned for months. However whilst conventional attacks have become almost non-existant, chemical attacks have greatly increased from both the air and from artillery. Despite De Gualle and Petains protests, southern France is becoming a barren desert.
However it would not be Wunderwaffen that would save Germany as much as a diplomatic one.
Joachim Von Ribbentrop had always been an ardent Nazi, despite his rather upper class origins, however now he had been given the unenviable task to make the allies see sense and explain to them why they should allow a nation broken by their bombing offensive should now be left in control of Europe. However as he toured Germany talking to the Swedish and Swiss ambassadors (both who had made the wise decisions of moving their embassies to small towns after Munich) he saw the destruction that plagued his country and was genuinely disgusted.
It is said that he snapped when he saw children being evacuated from by police officers wearing chemical suits after an American mustard gas attack. from the safety of his own air tight limousine. Overcome with terror from the safety of his own limousine he clumsily opened the door and ran out to try and get as many children inside as he could. Of course, the children were wearing gas masks, he wasn't....
------------------------
Stay tuned for WW2's epic finale!
I'm finding it kinda hard that germany could be a major power at this point. Surely they must be facing casualties almost as bad as what the ussr suffered OTL?
It wouldn't be that easy to nuke Germany, and they certainly wouldn't risk using single bombers or small formations for the task. If I remember correctly the Germans did have some large AAA that could reach B-29 altitudes, and if they had been under attack from these bombers for months they would have developed the necessary countermeasures, maybe even guided missiles. They could nest the bomber in a large raid with a good chance of success though, assuming such raids were still feasible.
As far as chemical weapons go, the Germans will be completely crushed. They might be able to kill large fractions of the British population, but the anthrax retaliations will destroy the German population and at the very least the Germans(and the occupied nations) will be facing mass starvation.
On the front the much more advanced German nerve agents will gain the upper hand against mustard and chlorine gasses. The problem will be advancing over terrain covered in the stuff, it will be mostly useful against massing concentrations of allied troops and can be used to prevent offensives and counter-offensives. The Germans will face nuclear attack, but at this point the bombs aren't powerful enough or numerous enough to stop German offensives. In this WMD situation the Germans will have the upper hand on the front lines, and assuming they can keep their armies supplied and make effective use of their chemical weapons, they should be capable of annihilating the allied force.
With the kind of damage Germany is sustaining, their war effort will collapse soon. If they can gain a decisive victory in Spain and reach America with WMDs they might be able to negotiate some sort of peace that can guarantee their independence and continued rule of their counquered territories. That's about the only vaguely plausible hope for this 3-Way Cold War you're proposing.
As far as chemical weapons go, the Germans will be completely crushed. They might be able to kill large fractions of the British population, but the anthrax retaliations will destroy the German population and at the very least the Germans(and the occupied nations) will be facing mass starvation.
On the front the much more advanced German nerve agents will gain the upper hand against mustard and chlorine gasses. The problem will be advancing over terrain covered in the stuff, it will be mostly useful against massing concentrations of allied troops and can be used to prevent offensives and counter-offensives. The Germans will face nuclear attack, but at this point the bombs aren't powerful enough or numerous enough to stop German offensives. In this WMD situation the Germans will have the upper hand on the front lines, and assuming they can keep their armies supplied and make effective use of their chemical weapons, they should be capable of annihilating the allied force.
With the kind of damage Germany is sustaining, their war effort will collapse soon. If they can gain a decisive victory in Spain and reach America with WMDs they might be able to negotiate some sort of peace that can guarantee their independence and continued rule of their counquered territories. That's about the only vaguely plausible hope for this 3-Way Cold War you're proposing.
Wyragen-TXRG4P
Banned
With the Soviet-Union having the atomic bomb and being at least several times more powerfull than Germany, Washington and London might have second thoughts on their priorities.
So efficient, I can´t help but wonder why Unit 731, that liberally tested all sort of things on its pensionaries, didn´t notice.
So efficient, I can´t help but wonder why Unit 731, that liberally tested all sort of things on its pensionaries, didn´t notice.
Because they had no means of efficiently hitting Britain or America whilst they on the other hand could? Also I think they had problems properly weaponising it.
Wyragen-TXRG4P
Banned
If anthrax attacks could really decimate the population of a large country, the Japanese would evidently have used it against Chinese population centers.
Also, Roosevelt and Truman would not have been so enthusiastic about the atomic bomb if the alternative was "better" and remain so for years.
Now, a German bomber on a one-way trip could deliver radioactive dust over a large city.
The vague history of Unit 731 seems to indicate that Anthrax was never properly weaponised by the Japanese, needing to be tested on people through injection of incredibly close proximity inhalation of spores. Also Anthrax isn't a very sensible weapon to use on territory your trying to conquer and colonise.
The Americans didn't have Anthrax at the time. They did plan to use chemical weapons during Downfall, thankfully the operation never happened.
That would be ineffective, large amounts of people would get sick but very little people would have actually died. The Germans would have probably dropped Tabun or Soman instead.
Wyragen-TXRG4P
Banned
There was a pre-war book where the US kill the entire population of Berlin, with bombers delivering highly radioactive dust.
Now, if you still bother to discuss ´ere, does that mean you are planning to continue the story?
Not vague enought to stop the US army from trying to using the researchs, against Korean civilians. Isolation wouldn´t be such a technical difficulty, even in the 1930s.
They hardly wanted all of China and got boged-down in the parts they wanted.
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The Second War (Part 4) : August 1946 - December 1946
The funeral of Joachim von Ribbentrop was a quick affair, without any of the elaborate ceremony that the burial of a top Nazi should have had in normal circumstances. Instead of the massive public mournings, bands and black cars going to the final resting place a small ceremony was held inside the redoubt with the body buried hastily afterwards. There would be time for mourning afterwards.
Right now, what was left of the Reich needed to be saved.
This seemingly impossible task now fell to Friedrich Werner von der Schulenburg. Regarded as a diplomatic genius by all those who knew him, he was in no small part the reason why German and Soviet relations remained decent during the setbacks faced since the Allies had begun to turn the tide on the Third Reich. The Reichs fate had now fallen into his hands.
Like any good diplomat, he sought to find the true situation of what was going on in Germany not just what the organs of the Nazi state were proclaiming. After private discussions with men such as Fritz Todt, Minister for War production and Herbert Backe, Minister for Agriculture. The picture that these men painted was grim indeed. Even with workers being contained in the cities, war production was falling dramatically due to the allied bombing campaign and even by seizing all possible agricultural produce from conquered territories, Germany would face famine by the winter of 1947. Regardless of whether or not there were more atomic attacks, which Von Schulenburg saw as inevitable, Germany was facing a regression into medieval times.
Thus when he went to meet the British and American ambassadors to Switzerland for the first time, he did not voice the same rhetoric of the Reich's divine right to dominate Europe that he had been told to announce but instead attempted to secure any terms he could outside unconditional surrender. Although taken aback by the change in German tact, the allies continued to demand unconditional surrender. Truman and Eden continued to have confidence that their nuclear strategy was working, it was only a matter of time before Germany collapsed in on itself.
In France the front lines continued to remain static. Due to German nerve gas, any large allied advance was deemed too risky and whilst the Germans did consider embarking on an offensive spearheaded with nerve gas to push the allies back into Catalonia, Rommel's experience terrified German commanders with the thought of suffering similar humiliation and indeed incineration at allied hands.
In western Spain meanwhile, Franco continues to resist in the mountains of north west Spain with chemical weapons being traded increasingly regularly, causing static warfare to arise in the mountains of Spain as well as in southern France. In the air, neither power has complete control. Although the allies enjoy a large numerical superiority, the Germans have the technological edge and thus neither side can seem to clear the skies. Both British and German civilians suffer from the constant threat of chemical attack, leading to many families fleeing southern England for the relatively safe haven of northern England and Scotland.
Refugees from London flee the Tabun and Sarin attacks of the Luftwaffe
For the Eden government this was a humiliation as British morale reached new lows, the assurance that the German population was suffering worse was of little comfort to the mass of refugees heading northwards or to the casualties, who were now numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Eden's coalition cabinet was devolving into shouting matches and accusations of incompetence from both the services and government ministers. There was still no breakthrough in Europe and the suffering of the British people only seemed to increase. Was a favourable peace such a bad idea?
Of course such talk was unheard of in the White House. Of course it was terrible what was happening to Britain but Germany was of course suffering much worse bombardment. Logically something had to give eventually and until then the war would be continued. Time was on the allies side.
Until war came to American shores...
The funeral of Joachim von Ribbentrop was a quick affair, without any of the elaborate ceremony that the burial of a top Nazi should have had in normal circumstances. Instead of the massive public mournings, bands and black cars going to the final resting place a small ceremony was held inside the redoubt with the body buried hastily afterwards. There would be time for mourning afterwards.
Right now, what was left of the Reich needed to be saved.
This seemingly impossible task now fell to Friedrich Werner von der Schulenburg. Regarded as a diplomatic genius by all those who knew him, he was in no small part the reason why German and Soviet relations remained decent during the setbacks faced since the Allies had begun to turn the tide on the Third Reich. The Reichs fate had now fallen into his hands.
Like any good diplomat, he sought to find the true situation of what was going on in Germany not just what the organs of the Nazi state were proclaiming. After private discussions with men such as Fritz Todt, Minister for War production and Herbert Backe, Minister for Agriculture. The picture that these men painted was grim indeed. Even with workers being contained in the cities, war production was falling dramatically due to the allied bombing campaign and even by seizing all possible agricultural produce from conquered territories, Germany would face famine by the winter of 1947. Regardless of whether or not there were more atomic attacks, which Von Schulenburg saw as inevitable, Germany was facing a regression into medieval times.
Thus when he went to meet the British and American ambassadors to Switzerland for the first time, he did not voice the same rhetoric of the Reich's divine right to dominate Europe that he had been told to announce but instead attempted to secure any terms he could outside unconditional surrender. Although taken aback by the change in German tact, the allies continued to demand unconditional surrender. Truman and Eden continued to have confidence that their nuclear strategy was working, it was only a matter of time before Germany collapsed in on itself.
In France the front lines continued to remain static. Due to German nerve gas, any large allied advance was deemed too risky and whilst the Germans did consider embarking on an offensive spearheaded with nerve gas to push the allies back into Catalonia, Rommel's experience terrified German commanders with the thought of suffering similar humiliation and indeed incineration at allied hands.
In western Spain meanwhile, Franco continues to resist in the mountains of north west Spain with chemical weapons being traded increasingly regularly, causing static warfare to arise in the mountains of Spain as well as in southern France. In the air, neither power has complete control. Although the allies enjoy a large numerical superiority, the Germans have the technological edge and thus neither side can seem to clear the skies. Both British and German civilians suffer from the constant threat of chemical attack, leading to many families fleeing southern England for the relatively safe haven of northern England and Scotland.
Refugees from London flee the Tabun and Sarin attacks of the Luftwaffe
For the Eden government this was a humiliation as British morale reached new lows, the assurance that the German population was suffering worse was of little comfort to the mass of refugees heading northwards or to the casualties, who were now numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Eden's coalition cabinet was devolving into shouting matches and accusations of incompetence from both the services and government ministers. There was still no breakthrough in Europe and the suffering of the British people only seemed to increase. Was a favourable peace such a bad idea?
Of course such talk was unheard of in the White House. Of course it was terrible what was happening to Britain but Germany was of course suffering much worse bombardment. Logically something had to give eventually and until then the war would be continued. Time was on the allies side.
Until war came to American shores...