Graphic Thread

This is the first part of a crossover timeline I'm working on that merges the universes of Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Disney's Twisted Wonderland (with one time period possibly allowing for the setting of the non-Disney game OMORI). The whole timeline will be in six parts, each covering around 1,000 years.

(Note: I do NOT claim ownership over any of the background images)

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This is an exciting idea, and I love the timeline you created.

But I have one question: Did toons in this universe supplant and replace humanity in the same way Skynet did? Judge Doom seemed to show how powerful and dangerous Toon-like beings are if their power to manipulate matter and physics was harnessed for a malicious purpose and they weren't held back by cartoon logic.

If anime characters gained sentience, you could theoretically create a whole army of warriors and mecha.

Toons replacing Humanity was not them rising up and killing us like in Terminator or Planet of the Apes, but rather a tragedy that was out of their control - in the span of about 90 years (read the timeline again between 2025 and 2125), a pandemic caused by an experimental virus decimated the Human population starting in the 2030s. In the 2060s a solar flare struck the Earth, leading to several decades with little electricity available and the weakening of Human immune systems against new variants of the virus due to radiation from nuclear plants that exploded following the flare. If anything, most Toons in the late half of the 21st century would have mourned their Human creators - that is, until they fell into their own set of wars centuries later that caused a reset to the neolithic era (and thus they basically forgot their identity as Toons due to loss of historical data).

Then I’m almost certain you’ll enjoy parts 2-5 out of 6 (which I plan to post over the next few weeks).

I really love the set up, and I love to see the rest of it soon.


I will say given how advance Toon Civilizations became before it went downhill, did they ever colonized the Solar System, and beyond? Because even when Earth went to hell because all the wars and nuclear conflicts, advance space-faring Toons could still exist among the stars and have either forgotten about Earth, or think it a dead world not knowing better.

I am also curious what the Afterlife must look like here, with the mention of Mickey being the last of the originals to die and observe the Earth through mirrors. Or even reincarnation.


I also wonder if Maleficent, Hades, or Chernabog are still around as great evils that one must face off time and time again. They just won't die! (And Hades is needed to rule over the Underworld.)


In my mind, the world would be heading into a sorta Hyborian Age/ sword and sorcery or something like that as it rebuilds and put itself back together. (With Robert E. Howard themes of the world existing in cycles.) With say Mickey, or someone else rebirth as it Conan. (See She Is Conann.)
 
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I really love the set up, and I love to see the rest of it soon.


I will say given how advance Toon Civilizations became before it went downhill, did they ever colonized the Solar System, and beyond? Because even when Earth went to hell because all the wars and nuclear conflicts, advance space-faring Toons could still exist among the stars and have either forgotten about Earth, or think it a dead world not knowing better.
Remember: Toon characters can defy the laws of physics. If they can somehow walk in thin air until they look down, it isn't hard to imagine starfaring toon characters could settle the universe.
 
Remember: Toon characters can defy the laws of physics. If they can somehow walk in thin air until they look down, it isn't hard to imagine starfaring toon characters could settle the universe.
Only certain Toon races in this setting can do such things; the vast majority of those physics-defying races are American, and even then, not all U.S characters are like that. The five races we see in Disney's Twisted Wonderland are probably, in this timeline, among those who can use magic (any Toon ITTL can do so regardless of race, but some simply don't need to) but can't exactly move or take damage in "cartoony" ways. These five races, who are likely of mixed heritage between American and Japanese animation, are the lucky few who just happened to win the near impossible lottery of surviving the nuclear extinction of the 27th century.

That being said, there are probably several animated fantasy series (two major examples being Konosuba and How To Train Your Dragon) that could be explained as lost colonies of Toon civilization from Earth, which collapsed after trade and communication ceased. If they ever meet back up with Toon astronauts from Earth in the far future, they will probably be such changed worlds (with such alien languages and cultures) that it would be difficult for anyone to recognize them as Toons that aren't just aliens who happen to vaguely resemble their forms.
 
Only certain Toon races in this setting can do such things; the vast majority of those physics-defying races are American, and even then, not all U.S characters are like that. The five races we see in Disney's Twisted Wonderland are probably, in this timeline, among those who can use magic (any Toon ITTL can do so regardless of race, but some simply don't need to) but can't exactly move or take damage in "cartoony" ways. These five races, who are likely of mixed heritage between American and Japanese animation, are the lucky few who just happened to win the near impossible lottery of surviving the nuclear extinction of the 27th century.

That being said, there are probably several animated fantasy series (two major examples being Konosuba and How To Train Your Dragon) that could be explained as lost colonies of Toon civilization from Earth, which collapsed after trade and communication ceased. If they ever meet back up with Toon astronauts from Earth in the far future, they will probably be such changed worlds (with such alien languages and cultures) that it would be difficult for anyone to recognize them as Toons that aren't just aliens who happen to vaguely resemble their forms.

Man, the world building in your scenario is really fascinating.
 
This is the first part of a crossover timeline I'm working on that merges the universes of Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Disney's Twisted Wonderland (with one time period possibly allowing for the setting of the non-Disney game OMORI). The whole timeline will be in six parts, each covering around 1,000 years.
So I assume then the next part will be the events of the Disney movies actually happening until society builds back up mostly to the present day?
 
The End of History is an alternative history novel published in 2024 by Sea Lion Press about a world where the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact peacefully collapsed in 1991. It takes the form of a historical textbook, interspersed with brief vignettes of characters witnessing historical events. It has received critical acclaim for it's extreme realism, attention to detail, and dark storyline, although it has been criticized for implausible plot threads, inconsistencies, and excessive allohistorical parallels. A television adaptation is currently under development.

----

The End of History Cover.png


THE END OF HISTORY​

£6.50

Available from retailers below
  • Available now​

    Buy on Amazon
    Buy elsewhere
Christmas day, 1991: The hammer and sickle is lowered from the Kremlin for the very last time. The Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact are no more. Gone, not with a bang, but with a whimper, as a wave of peaceful revolutions sweep across Eastern Europe. In the West, the mood is jubilant, as the threat of armageddon and the spectre of Soviet communism are vanquished from the earth. The United States stands as the only remaining superpower in the world. The struggle between ideologies is over, and liberal capitalism has triumphed, having proven itself to be the best and final form of human civilization.

But to the east, China stands in resolute defiance of the new world order, the Communist Party clinging to power with an iron fist. The reforms of Deng fuel its meteoric rise in the new millennium, as the ancient dragon tries to eat the sun once more. In the Middle East, the collapse of the Soviet threat means that the eyes of radical Islamists turn toward what they see as their last remaining enemy, and the world braces for a clash of civilizations. To the West, decades of offshoring, austerity, and automation have hollowed out the core of civil society, and the liberal democracies will tremble in the face of globalization and its discontents.

And finally, in the rubble of a vanquished empire, its wealth stripped clean by vulturine oligarchs, and seemingly abandoned by the victors in its hour of greatest need, its people turn to an autocrat, who promises stability, prosperity, and the restoration of the Motherland to her former glory.

History may not be over quite yet…
 
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The End of History is an alternative history novel published in 2024 by Sea Lion Press about about a world where the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact peacefully collapsed in 1991. It takes the form of a historical textbook, interspersed with brief vignettes of characters witnessing historical events. It has received critical acclaim for it's extreme realism, attention to detail, and dark storyline, although it has been criticized for implausible plot threads, inconsistencies, and excessive allohistorical parallels. A television adaptation is currently under development.
-snip-

So is the Cold War still ongoing in the TL where this book is written? Is the USSR still a totalitarian dictatorship?
 
So is the Cold War still ongoing in the TL where this book is written? Is the USSR still a totalitarian dictatorship?
Totalitarian is a bit of a strong word (outside of the GDR, Romania, and Albania anyhow), but yes the Cold War is still ongoing when the book is written. (The author shares the same username as me, but they definitely aren't me. I don't know who they are.)

The main POD is that Brezhnev dies of his first heart attack in 1975, giving more time for reformers like Andropov to come to power and fix the Union's economic situation.

The inspiration ITTL:
The inspiration for the ITTL author was from watching a news report of President Romney giving a speech condemning Soviet intervention in the Syrian Civil War* and shifting to a more hawkish foreign policy, calling back to the Reagan years, where the US foreign policy was, according to the man himself: "We win and they lose." Which led the author to realize something: Despite all the politicians calling for the liberation of the people of Eastern Europe, all the Sci-fi stories set in the distant future, and so on, no one they know actually seem to think the Soviets will ever actually collapse (without a catastrophic nuclear war). So they decided to write a story where, like Aladdin with the Genie, the West gets exactly what they asked for. Nothing more, nothing less.

*Which ironically had Soviet socialists supporting Syrian capitalists, and Western capitalists supporting Kurdish socialists, but oh well...

The inspiration OTL:
It was this article from the Washington Post. Basically, if you don't wanna get past the paywall, it says that the death of Gorbachev feels like an background event in a dark alternate history TL, showing the "viewers" where the POD was, that "this is where things went wrong." That it is strange that someone who was once one of the two most powerful men in the world, died in obscurity. I combined that with all the anecdotes that I've read about how nobody expected the USSR and WarPac to collapse so quickly and peacefully, and well... This is what resulted. I plan on expanding more on this "TL" more in the future.

Questions are welcome!
 
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Totalitarian is a bit of a strong word (outside of the GDR, Romania, and Albania anyhow), but yes the Cold War is still ongoing when the book is written. (The author shares the same username as me, but they definitely aren't me. I don't know who they are.)

The main POD is that Brezhnev dies of his first heart attack in 1975, giving more time for reformers like Andropov to come to power and fix the Union's economic situation.

The inspiration ITTL:
The inspiration for the ITTL author was from watching a news report of President Romney giving a speech condemning Soviet intervention in the Syrian Civil War* and shifting to a more hawkish foreign policy, calling back to the Reagan years, where the US foreign policy was, according to the man himself: "We win and they lose." Which led the author to realize something: Despite all the politicians calling for the liberation of the people of Eastern Europe, all the Sci-fi stories set in the distant future, and so on, no one they know actually seem to think the Soviets will ever actually collapse (without a catastrophic nuclear war). So they decided to write a story where, like Aladdin with the Genie, the West gets exactly what they asked for. Nothing more, nothing less.

*Which ironically had Soviet socialists supporting Syrian capitalists, and Western capitalists supporting Kurdish socialists, but oh well...

This is an exciting scenario. People in this TL would find OTL 1989 to be a fantasy since, at this point, the Cold War would've been going on longer than most lifetimes. So I have a few questions:

1. Did the Soviets become like China: authoritarian government, but with a sprinkle of free market capitalism? If the Soviets and the rest of the Eastern bloc can feed themselves, then they have a good chance of hanging on.

2. Does the Soviet capitalist turn mean they still change up their foreign policy to less "support communism" and more "stick it to the West and make money?" Would they also give

3. What is China like in this TL?

4. Does TL America suffer the same polarization even with an evil Soviet Empire still around?

4
 

Stretch

Donor
The End of History is an alternative history novel published in 2024 by Sea Lion Press about a world where the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact peacefully collapsed in 1991. It takes the form of a historical textbook, interspersed with brief vignettes of characters witnessing historical events. It has received critical acclaim for it's extreme realism, attention to detail, and dark storyline, although it has been criticized for implausible plot threads, inconsistencies, and excessive allohistorical parallels. A television adaptation is currently under development.

----

View attachment 895117

THE END OF HISTORY​

£6.50

Available from retailers below
  • Available now​

    Buy on Amazon
    Buy elsewhere
Christmas day, 1991: The hammer and sickle is lowered from the Kremlin for the very last time. The Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact are no more. Gone, not with a bang, but with a whimper, as a wave of peaceful revolutions sweep across Eastern Europe. In the West, the mood is jubilant, as the threat of armageddon and the spectre of Soviet communism are vanquished from the earth. The United States stands as the only remaining superpower in the world. The struggle between ideologies is over, and liberal capitalism has triumphed, having proven itself to be the best and final form of human civilization.

But to the east, China stands in resolute defiance of the new world order, the Communist Party clinging to power with an iron fist. The reforms of Deng fuel its meteoric rise in the new millennium, as the ancient dragon tries to eat the sun once more. In the Middle East, the collapse of the Soviet threat means that the eyes of radical Islamists turn toward what they see as their last remaining enemy, and the world braces for a clash of civilizations. To the West, decades of offshoring, austerity, and automation have hollowed out the core of civil society, and the liberal democracies will tremble in the face of globalization and its discontents.

And finally, in the rubble of a vanquished empire, its wealth stripped clean by vulturine oligarchs, and seemingly abandoned by the victors in its hour of greatest need, its people turn to an autocrat, who promises stability, prosperity, and the restoration of the Motherland to her former glory.

History may not be over quite yet…
I legit thought this was published on the wrong thread!
 
This is an exciting scenario. People in this TL would find OTL 1989 to be a fantasy since, at this point, the Cold War would've been going on longer than most lifetimes. So I have a few questions:

1. Did the Soviets become like China: authoritarian government, but with a sprinkle of free market capitalism? If the Soviets and the rest of the Eastern bloc can feed themselves, then they have a good chance of hanging on.

2. Does the Soviet capitalist turn mean they still change up their foreign policy to less "support communism" and more "stick it to the West and make money?" Would they also give

3. What is China like in this TL?

4. Does TL America suffer the same polarization even with an evil Soviet Empire still around?

4
Well, it's more of a soft-AH for now, but I'll try and answer them.

1. A sprinkling of capitalism, yes. They legalize the creation of small private enterprises with limits on size, but they don't fully abandon the state-owned planned economy, reforming it to incorporate more market mechanisms, hard budget constraints, and decentralization. Sort of a cross between Cuba/Hungary/Yugoslavia/or what the Czechoslovaks tried to do in the 60's. Also, the Czechoslovaks realized the agriculture problem, and they basically succeeded in feeding themselves by the late 80's.

2. Well, I mean even the CCP, which has basically abandoned socialism in all but name still try and justify everything in Marxist terms, so I wouldn't think that would affect Soviet foreign policy very much. The next couple decades oscillate between periods of hostility and detente. The Reagan Doctrine doesn't work, like OTL, but it's more obvious here since the Soviets don't coincidentally collapse shortly afterwards, and relations warm from the mid-90s to the early 10's. The Cold War flares up again through that decade after the Soviets support Gaddafi and Assad when civil wars kick off there, before relations slowly cool down again to another detente by the early 20's.

3. With the Soviet threat still in play, the Chinese still snuggle up to the West, and it's rise is seen as a asset, rather than the liability it is seen as now. Likewise, they can't piss off the West too hard, so they liberalize more, there is less repression, censorship, human rights violations, and genocide, so things are generally better there.

4. The base factors for the polarization are still there, though it's less pronounced as OTL for a variety of reasons. (This is the core of some of the things that the ITTL author is criticized for, like the whole War on Terror plotline, "The 9/11 plot reads like something out of a Tom Clancy novel!" or writing the election of Donald Trump in 2016 as a dark mirror to Bernie Sanders' upset victory, "So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body.")

Any other questions?
 
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Well, it's more of a soft-AH for now, but I'll try and answer them.

1. A sprinkling of capitalism, yes. They legalize the creation of small private enterprises with limits on size, but they don't fully abandon the state-owned planned economy, reforming it to incorporate more market mechanisms, hard budget constraints, and decentralization. Sort of a cross between Cuba/Hungary/Yugoslavia/or what the Czechoslovaks tried to do in the 60's. Also, the Czechoslovaks realized the agriculture problem, and they basically succeeded in feeding themselves by the late 80's.

2. Well, I mean even the CCP, which has basically abandoned socialism in all but name still try and justify everything in Marxist terms, so I wouldn't think that would affect Soviet foreign policy very much. The next couple decades oscillate between periods of hostility and detente. The Reagan Doctrine doesn't work, like OTL, but it's more obvious here since the Soviets don't coincidentally collapse shortly afterwards, and relations warm from the mid-90s to the early 10's. The Cold War flares up again through that decade after the Soviets support Gaddafi and Assad when civil wars kick off there, before relations slowly cool down again to another detente by the early 20's.

3. With the Soviet threat still in play, the Chinese still snuggle up to the West, and it's rise is seen as a asset, rather than the liability it is seen as now. Likewise, they can't piss off the West too hard, so they liberalize more, there is less repression, censorship, human rights violations, and genocide, so things are generally better there.

4. The base factors for the polarization are still there, though it's less pronounced as OTL for a variety of reasons. (This is the core of some of the things that the ITTL author is criticized for, like the whole War on Terror plotline, "The 9/11 plot reads like something out of a Tom Clancy novel!" or writing the election of Donald Trump in 2016 as a dark mirror to Bernie Sanders' upset victory, "So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body.")

Any other questions?

5. Is globalization still widespread? I've read the collapse of the Soviet Union was a catalyst for the opening up of economies in the early 90s. Does the existence of the Soviet Union mean that mixed economies are still common?

6. Is America still propping up horrible dictatorships in places like Latin America ITTL? And is Latin America still full of military juntas?

7. Has the Soviet Union's continued existence meant neoliberalism isn't as widespread? Do countries still push for economic populism to compete against communism and make their workers less inclined toward revolt?

8. Has America industrialized like OTL, or does it still maintain a lot of industry as a defense base against Soviet aggression?
 
5. Is globalization still widespread? I've read the collapse of the Soviet Union was a catalyst for the opening up of economies in the early 90s. Does the existence of the Soviet Union mean that mixed economies are still common?

6. Is America still propping up horrible dictatorships in places like Latin America ITTL? And is Latin America still full of military juntas?

7. Has the Soviet Union's continued existence meant neoliberalism isn't as widespread? Do countries still push for economic populism to compete against communism and make their workers less inclined toward revolt?

8. Has America industrialized like OTL, or does it still maintain a lot of industry as a defense base against Soviet aggression?

5. Yes, it's less extensive without the complete integration of the Soviet Bloc, but it still happens. As for the second bit, yes? I mean it's still true OTL if you define socialism as government intervention in the economy (which I dispute), so as to get the "mixture of capitalism and socialism" that the "mixed economy" refers to, but it's about the same as OTL.

6. The US generally steps back from Latin America during the New Detente period, and apart from a few exceptions, the most notable being Fujimori's Peru, Latin America remains mostly dictator-free, and the position of the capitalist democracies stabilize temporarily during the commodity boom in the 2000s. (And the history of decades of US-backed coups cows the left for a while.)

Then in the 2010s, the commodity boom ends and large-scale protests and political violence erupts against austerity and inequality that lasts through the Covid-19 pandemic. At the same time, Bernie Sanders wins an upset victory in the US, and many leftist groups in Latin America shift to electoral tactics after his success, and by the 20's, a Pink Tide is sweeping across the region.

7. The neoliberal reformers were already pursuing their policies in the 70s and 80s, before the Soviets collapsed OTL, without knowledge of it's imminent demise, so ITTL I don't see why it would be that much less than OTL. As for populism, yes that too occurs, although here the (democratic) left is ascendant. Here are some of the more noteworthy examples:

In America, Bernie Sanders wins an upset victory, losing the popular vote, but winning the presidency. After a period of establishment panic and rumors of a coup, ultimately, things settle down, and he proves to be a pragmatic reformer. He doesn't fulfill most of his radical promises, but he gets things like Medicare for All passed, which is nice when the pandemic hits. His election triggers a thaw across Latin America, and leftist parties win elections across the region in the late 10's and early 20's.

In France, the PCF forms an alliance with the Socialist Party, and they are the current governing coalition in France.

In West Germany, a new leftist party called Die Alternative is formed, and rapidly picks up steam through the 2010s.

In Italy, the results are the most dramatic, with the Italian Communist Party gaining strength through the Great Recession and the unpopular austerity in the aftermath, as the "permanent opposition" party. Combined with relaxed fears of them turning Italy into a Communist dictatorship if they win after the success of the Belgrade Spring, the PCI wins a stunning 40% of the vote during the 2023 general election, becoming the largest party in Italy, and the establishment is in a state of panic, and are currently debating whether or not to let them into the government as part of a grand coalition.

8. I assume you mean de-industrialized? If so, it's about the same as OTL, since the forces that caused it (globalization, NAFTA, the rise of places like Japan, Korea, China, etc) were already in play before the Soviet collapse, and wouldn't have really been affected by it.
 
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5. Yes, it's less extensive without the complete integration of the Soviet Bloc, but it still happens. As for the second bit, yes? I mean it's still true OTL if you define socialism as government intervention in the economy (which I dispute), so as to get the "mixture of capitalism and socialism" that the "mixed economy" refers to, but it's about the same as OTL.

6. The US generally steps back from Latin America during the New Detente period, and apart from a few exceptions, the most notable being Fujimori's Peru, Latin America remains mostly dictator-free, and the position of the capitalist democracies stabilize temporarily during the commodity boom in the 2000s. (And the history of decades of US-backed coups cows the left for a while.)

Then in the 2010s, the commodity boom ends and large-scale protests and political violence erupts against austerity and inequality that lasts through the Covid-19 pandemic. At the same time, Bernie Sanders wins an upset victory in the US, and many leftist groups in Latin America shift to electoral tactics after his success, and by the 20's, a Pink Tide is sweeping across the region.

7. The neoliberal reformers were already pursuing their policies in the 70s and 80s, before the Soviets collapsed OTL, without knowledge of it's imminent demise, so ITTL I don't see why it would be that much less than OTL. As for populism, yes that too occurs, although here the (democratic) left is ascendant. Here are some of the more noteworthy examples:

In America, Bernie Sanders wins an upset victory, losing the popular vote, but winning the presidency. After a period of establishment panic and rumors of a coup, ultimately, things settle down, and he proves to be a pragmatic reformer. He doesn't fulfill most of his radical promises, but he gets things like Medicare for All passed, which is nice when the pandemic hits. His election triggers a thaw across Latin America, and leftist parties win elections across the region in the late 10's and early 20's.

In France, the PCF forms an alliance with the Socialist Party, and they are the current governing coalition in France.

In West Germany, a new leftist party called Die Alternative is formed, and rapidly picks up steam through the 2010s.

In Italy, the results are the most dramatic, with the Italian Communist Party gaining strength through the Great Recession and the unpopular austerity in the aftermath, as the "permanent opposition" party. Combined with relaxed fears of them turning Italy into a Communist dictatorship if they win after the success of the Belgrade Spring, the PCI wins a stunning 40% of the vote during the 2023 general election, becoming the largest party in Italy, and the establishment is in a state of panic, and are currently debating whether or not to let them into the government as part of a grand coalition.

8. I assume you mean de-industrialized? If so, it's about the same as OTL, since the forces that caused it (globalization, NAFTA, the rise of places like Japan, Korea, China, etc) were already in play before the Soviet collapse, and wouldn't have really been affected by it.

5. So would you see countries pursuing things like Hugo Chavez's economic "reforms?"

6. So in this world, would the likes of Lula Da Silva and Evo Morales still be prominent?

7. Do Democrats ITTL remain popular in states like Arkansas and Tennessee in this TL?

8. Yes, I meant deindustrialized. But if America still underwent industrial decline while Soviet Russia underwent an economic boom, wouldn't that result in the rise of more Trumpist/Peroist political candidates grousing about how Americans are poorer than the commies?
 
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