My goal will be to make the scandal as bizarre and sensational as possible.
Founding Family: An Early American TL.
My goal will be to make the scandal as bizarre and sensational as possible.
First of all, let me just say that this is an amazing timeline, and you should be proud of the work you have done so far. Its incredibly informative, captures the feel of the time, and is very readable. I'm afraid I don't have a ton to add, as military history has never been my thing and can't speak well of strategy and logistics, nor am I particularly aware of Laurens in OTL. But i feel like I'm learning a good deal of both of those fronts, and that has always been one of the reasons I love reading AH.
Now, for a question: will Pulaski play any major part in these Southern campaigns? I have to have some love for my fellow Pole, and it would be interesting to see him actually survive the war.
Also; great to see LaFayette getting good attention. I recently read Sarah Vowell's new book on him, and have developed a real affection for the young Frenchman (hence my recent post about the possibility of him being appointed governor of Louisiana.)
As for information about French Canada in this period, what exactly are you looking for? I'm not sure if I have much, but I've had to do a bit of reading on New France for one of my jobs (I've had to research Indiana, and it was originally part of New France) so I might know a few good places to look. No promises, but if you let me know exactly what you're looking for I can try to take a look!
Now, for a question: will Pulaski play any major part in these Southern campaigns? I have to have some love for my fellow Pole, and it would be interesting to see him actually survive the war.
Also; great to see LaFayette getting good attention. I recently read Sarah Vowell's new book on him, and have developed a real affection for the young Frenchman (hence my recent post about the possibility of him being appointed governor of Louisiana.)
As for information about French Canada in this period, what exactly are you looking for? I'm not sure if I have much, but I've had to do a bit of reading on New France for one of my jobs (I've had to research Indiana, and it was originally part of New France) so I might know a few good places to look. No promises, but if you let me know exactly what you're looking for I can try to take a look!
Thanks for the kind words!
Pulaski will show up in the northern campaign, and now that I've done a little research on him, I can confirm he and Kosciuszko will both survive the war. I have vague plans for Poland that are still coalescing.
I'm basically looking for 2 things. First, a plausibility check on the likelihood of French Canadians defecting from the British cause if Lafayette is added to the mix. Second, information on the British presence in and around the Great Lakes. Thanks!
I may not get back to you tonight, but I will look around for you and see if I can find any good sources for you.
And, if Polish history ends up less depressing that in OTL; i will love it. I've gotten into reading more Polish history over the past year or so (my Mum's family is Polish-American, and I wanted to chase that side of my heritage for once!) and it's fascinating, it not a bit sad over the past two centuries or so
Why particularly does most of Canada still need to stay with the British? It seems boring and ignoring of butterflies by now with all the changes.
You could go the DSA route instead, for example.
You could go the DSA route instead, for example.
I may not get back to you tonight, but I will look around for you and see if I can find any good sources for you.
And, if Polish history ends up less depressing that in OTL; i will love it. I've gotten into reading more Polish history over the past year or so (my Mum's family is Polish-American, and I wanted to chase that side of my heritage for once!) and it's fascinating, it not a bit sad over the past two centuries or so
Thanks, appreciate your research.
It's hard to give Poland a really happy fate given it's neighborhood, but I'll definitely do my best.
This is why I'm doing a plausibility check on Quebec. The plan is for Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, at a minimum, to stay British. I think taking Halifax is a stretch too far for the patriots at this point, and they'd need a much better navy for Newfoundland. [Plus, once you see who gets put in charge of the Halifax expedition it'll make more sense]. I'm also planning to have the Americans, at a minimum, dislodge the British from the Great Lakes.
But Quebec is the joker in the deck, hence why I need a plausibility check. I have something I want to do with it but not quite sure it'll work.
As for a British territory in the south, I've broadly hinted at what that's going to be ITTL. Whether it lasts is a different situation; after all, there's a reason our friend Mr. Cavendish, the loyalist-descended conspiracy theorist, lives all the way in Australia.
At any rate, I hope the fate of Canada turns out to be anything but boring!
I've downloaded a couple history books on Quebec, one is a history of ideas and the other is a case study of the seigneurial system in Quebec (which seems vaguely similar to the patron system of New Netherlands before the British conquest).
Basically, it seems like there's some flexibility for the outcome during the war. After the war, though, Quebec is going to be interesting, and I've got 2 potential pathways mapped out, which I'll probably let you guys vote on.
In the meantime, I'll start work on the next update just as soon as I can spot-check some stuff on Fort Detroit during the ARW.
Basically, it seems like there's some flexibility for the outcome during the war. After the war, though, Quebec is going to be interesting, and I've got 2 potential pathways mapped out, which I'll probably let you guys vote on.
In the meantime, I'll start work on the next update just as soon as I can spot-check some stuff on Fort Detroit during the ARW.
Ah good, You're trying to incorporate butterflies
. Let me try to help:Lafayette may want Quebec to return to the french, but without control of the mouth of the gulf then there is nothing that the french can do to keep control if either the British or the Americans want it. Also, because Quebec didn't make much money the french would far prefer some extra Caribbean islands to it, which I think they would ask for in the peace treaty with Quebec as an american state.
That is, if the Americans can conquer Quebec. I think the Quebecois won't really care too much which anglophones rule them, so the sins of the previous expedition can be corrected with Lafayette and guarantees of autonomy as a state.
I think the Americans can get right up to the Nova Scotia peninsula but won't be able to penetrate it, so that would be the new British-american border in the north, as well as with Britain keeping Newfoundland and P.I.E.
All that seem about right?
Ah good, You're trying to incorporate butterflies
Lafayette may want Quebec to return to the french, but without control of the mouth of the gulf then there is nothing that the french can do to keep control if either the British or the Americans want it. Also, because Quebec didn't make much money the french would far prefer some extra Caribbean islands to it, which I think they would ask for in the peace treaty with Quebec as an american state.
That is, if the Americans can conquer Quebec. I think the Quebecois won't really care too much which anglophones rule them, so the sins of the previous expedition can be corrected with Lafayette and guarantees of autonomy as a state.
I think the Americans can get right up to the Nova Scotia peninsula but won't be able to penetrate it, so that would be the new British-american border in the north, as well as with Britain keeping Newfoundland and P.I.E.
All that seem about right?
Yeah, that sounds about right. I think ITTL Lafayette's going to pretty much give up on the idea of returning Quebec to France. The one joker in the deck is the (very powerful) Catholic Church in Quebec, which, combined with the Seigneurs, was militantly loyalist on two grounds. First, they were very much defenders of aristocratic/royal privilege. Second, they were very aware of the fact that anti-Catholicism was a powerful force in the American colonies. Now, I think they will accommodate American conquest--they accommodated the British conquest and this actually gets rid of an established Protestant church--but after the war things could get interesting.
Expanding on the post-war point, there are two big issues I see. First, does part of New Brunzwick and/or Northern Maine, which had francophone populations, get folded into Quebec, thereby giving them some more access to the coast? Second, and more importantly, how are they going to react to the constitution, the ratification debate, and the rise of the new parties? I have two radically different paths for Quebec at that point, and that's where I'll be asking for reader input.
But for now, Onward Lafayette!
Here is how I'd think the Americans would set the borders:
The Americans wont want too much french influence, so i think they will set the st. john river as the border of Quebec, up to Edmundson, N.B., where it will go following the gaspe river to the gulf of gaspe at the nearest beginning point of that river. For the border in the south, i think that it would follow the Ottawa river like otl, keep running until it reaches the st. Lawrence and then run south following the st. Lawrence under Montreal island, and leave as a straight line (toward the beginning of the st. john river at little st. john lake) at what is otl now brossard.
New York and Vermont's borders would be expended with that extra territory, and their border would follow the Richelieu. Vermont and new hamshire's extended border would keep following the upper Delaware river until it dissipated, then would go in a up facing straight line to the new Quebec border.
The new border of *Maine and *new Brunswick will probably be set at the st. Croix river like otl, but once it reaches the farthest upstream of that river, it would go to the nearest point of the st. john, and follow upstream until it reaches the point where the *Maine-Quebec border starts.
New hamshire and *Maine's borders would just continue straight up until the new Quebec border
*New Brunswick probably doesn't have many acadians at this point, but with the acadians returning and american settlement then the state will probably be around half francophone and half anglophone (the otl Fredericton area would probably be the francophone center, and the otl st. john area would be the anglophone center). I suggest making the state's name Acadia. Aside from the border adjustments I described already, there is no change of borders needed because the acadians are a different ethnic group than the Quebecois, and want to be treated as such.
How do you think of these?
The problem I see with adjusting Quebec's borders unilaterally is the current format of the government. To put it mildly, the states are going to take a dim view of the continental congress redrawing the borders of any state at this point.
Now, once the northwest ordinance gets passed, you could very well see some new states carved out of upper Canada, but if the francophones in Quebec play their cards right they can actually preserve French influence in the state throughout the confederation period (congress can't pass legislation without unanimity at this point).
Quebec in the constitutional convention is going to be fascinating, and we'll come back to it when we get closer.
I like Acadia for New Brunzwick, and I also like the idea of it as sort of a New Orleans north, with Quebec being much more francophone. Any resources on Acadian political culture at this time, particularly that of any returnees from Louisiana? And what impact would Acadian out-migration from Louisiana have on that territory?
This update is turning into a bear, but I should wrap up the Ohio campaign tomorrow and start posting [I may split it into 2 pieces].
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Many of the borders I was describing were actually rather undefined in this area, I picked them all on the basis that the states would want them defined, and (for Quebec) how far the french influence would extend downstream (on the assumption that the Quebecois would pass themselves some special autonomy rules).
Is there any problems with any of the borders I suggested specifically?
I didn't realize the borders were that poorly defined, so no, your borders work.
I said Quebec would be much more Anglophone but I meant much less; typo.
Here's half of the next update, covering 1779 in Canada. The lakes campaign and the Battles of Fort Niagara and Fort Detroit will be covered in the next update.
______
6. In the Fury of the Tempest: The Northern Campaigns, 1779:
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
The Continental Army had four objectives in the northern campaign of 1779. First, in the east, they hoped to capture Halifax, thus removing Britain's last substantial naval base in the north. Second, they were prepared to launch a second invasion of Quebec, this time to be spearheaded by the Marquis de Lafayette. A third force would operate in western and northern New York, driving the British out of their strongholds in the Champlain valley, and moving all the way to the capture of Fort Niagara. Finally, substantial reinforcements were to be sent west to the Ohio country, with the ultimate aim of capturing Fort Detroit, and thereby ending the threat to the frontiers of Pennsylvania and Virginia. It was obvious that Lafayette would command the assault into Quebec, but it was less clear who would command the other expeditions. Washington's intent was to give command of the attack on Halifax to Nathanael Greene, the New York command to Hamilton, and the Ohio command to General Daniel Morgan. Morgan's command was approved without incident, but New England members of congress pushed to replace Greene with Horatio Gates. Resigned, Washington eventually consented, giving command of the New York campaign to Greene, with Hamilton as his second. Washington planned to keep the forces destined for Halifax and Quebec together for an initial assault on Penobscot, the last British outpost in Maine. This attack was launched in late March, 1779. After a bitter two week siege, Penobscot fell. Deciding it would be sensible for him to remain there in order to coordinate the two independent Canadian expeditions, Washington, and his now diminished staff, remained behind with a central reserve force that could reinforce either of the two northern prongs if needed. Washington would be very glad of this strategic reserve in the fullness of time…
(Excerpt From: Britain in the American Revolution):
Sir Guy Carleton remained in command at Halifax, reinforced by a strong garrison. After the fall of Penobscot, he expected the main patriot attack to reach him there, though he did warn Frederick Haldimand, the commanding general and governor of Quebec, to expect a possible renewed patriot assault. Carleton, however, would prove fortunate in his opponent. Gates moved north, encountering little resistance until he came to the Nova Scotia peninsula. Carleton elected to allow Gates to invest the city, which he did on June 1, 1779. Unfortunately for Gates, he had by this time so infuriated the French Admiral commanding his naval support that the two men were hardly on speaking terms. Gates also ignored the advice of his chief engineer, Thaddeus Kosciuszko, on the placement of his siege works. That Kosciuszko would go on to have a varied career of great renowned, while Gates is now a footnote of interest only to historians of the American Revolution, speaks volumes about the two men. Unaware of the way in which his position left him exposed, Gates' feuding with the French fleet reached a point that they withdrew in disgust, finding it "impossible to work with the man". This was the chance for which Carleton had been waiting. Embarking about half the garrison on British ships now no longer pinned in Halifax Harbor by the French, Carleton landed them behind Gates’ troops, attacking his ill-prepared siege works on the morning of July 1. Gates compounded his error by attempting to both hold off the assault and storm Halifax at the same time. As a result, nearly 1000 continentals, including Gates himself, were killed. As the highest-ranking senior officer, Kosciuszko was left with the unenviable task of extracting the remaining patriot forces from their trap. It is a testament to his skill that, not only was he successful, but he bloodied Carleton's relief force quite sharply on his way. The French squadron, having raided Newfoundland, returned in time to support Kosciuszko's march south. While Washington put the blame squarely on Gates, many New England congressmen spoke of the "French perfidy that betrayed our cause at Halifax". Various motives were imputed, from French bitterness that the patriots were unwilling to consider returning Quebec to it to a conspiratorial belief that France feared its ally was growing too strong, and wished to preserve a British presence in North America to keep the two Anglophone powers at one another's throats. Whatever the reason, New England soon became a hot-bed of anti-French sentiment, to the point that French naval vessels were advised to avoid making port in Boston due to fear of riots…
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
Lafayette planned to recreate the two-pronged strategy used by Montgomery and Arnold, with a few modifications. First, he followed a new invasion route proposed by Moses Hazen, commander of the Second Canadian regiment. Hazen and his troops built a road through the Hampshire grants (now New Hampshire and Vermont), which could serve as an alternate route to the more arduous path taken by Arnold in 1775. Second, Arnold intended to bring more men, and attack in summer. "We must take Quebec City before the close of October, lest we suffer the same fate as Arnold and Montgomery," he wrote to Hamilton. Third, Lafayette hoped to be more successful in recruiting the French habitants, or tenet farmers, than Arnold and Montgomery had been. Due to long consultations with a rising young continental officer of Quebecois extraction named Clement Gosselin, he also understood the need to neutralize the opposition of the seigneurs and the Catholic Church, who dominated the province and remained loyal to the king out of fear of revolution, In order to achieve both aims, Lafayette engaged in sophisticated propaganda, letting the rumor be spread among the seigneurs that the colonists had agreed to restore French rule of Quebec, while encouraging the habitants to believe Quebec would become part of an egalitarian American republic. In effect, Lafayette promised all things to all people, in the hope that he might win at least some over to the patriot cause, and convince others to remain neutral. This strategy proved extremely effective…
(Excerpt From: Britain in the American Revolution):
Frederick Haldimand, governor and commanding General of Quebec, wrote anxious letters in the late Spring and early summer warning of foment among the "new subjects", as the French Quebecois were known. "Among the seigneuri, it is believed that France will come, while the habitants place their hope in the Americans. In neither case do they remain unswerving in their loyalty to the crown." Haldimand begged for reinforcement, but the crown had none to send. Lesley's forces in Florida were making preparations against a potential Spanish invasion, while Carleton could not spare any soldiers from the defense of Halifax. To the west, British and loyalist forces were experiencing their own difficulties due to Greene's lakes campaign. Thus, Haldimand found himself in the unenviable position of relying increasingly on local militias that, at the same time, he could no longer trust as fully. He initiated a wave of arrests and proscriptions, while at the same time promising more autonomy when the crisis had passed. This strategy might have worked, had the arrests not included a Catholic priest. The father in question, whose families were seigneurs, was accused of offering prayers to the king, but substituting Louis' name for that of King George. Though evidence is inconclusive, speculation among the new subjects was that this accusation came from an opportunistic Anglophone seigneur whose territory bordered that of the priest's family. Again, Haldimand was in a bind, needing to demonstrate British firmness and resolve on one hand and not antagonize the new subjects on the other. His compromise was to place the priest under house arrest and empower a commission to rapidly investigate the charges. Nevertheless, the Catholic church, previously a bastion of loyalist support, expressed their objection to "governmental interference in the church of Christ" in "the strongest terms possible". In the midst of this swirling chaos, Lafayette's invasion came as the breaking of the tempest…
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
Lafayette went from success to success. In June, his main force marched up the Hazen Road, as it came to be called, and rapidly made progress toward Quebec. At the same time, a second smaller force under James Livingston's command marched to Montreal, investing and capturing the city. The two forces met up in Quebec's lower city, and laid siege to the upper city by July 29. Haldimand's appeals for more troops fell on deaf years, the Quebecois were by now alienated and in chaos, and a provisional patriot government was already forming at Montreal under the direction of Pierre Du Calvet, the Huguenot justice of the peace and prominent Quebecois liberal widely respected throughout the province. As the siege dragged on, Lafayette entered into covert negotiations with several prominent seigneurs, who desired assurances that their interests would be respected in the new dispensation, whatever that might be. Overjoyed, Lafayette made promises liberally. “I have made nearly all the seigneurs my friend”, he boasted in one letter for Hamilton. Lafayette’s love of popularity, admitted even by his friends to be his greatest weakness, would leave the young nation with a horribly tangled legacy in the war’s aftermath…
(Excerpt From: The British In the American Revolution):
A despondent Haldimand was left with no option but surrender by the end of September. On October 2, he and his remaining garrison were given generous terms, and Quebec City, at last, fell into patriot hands. The Quebec provisional assembly had, by this time, actually sent Valentin Jautard, John McCord and Fleury Mesplet as delegates to the continental congress, so in some ways the surrender of the garrison was a formality. Still, Haldimand would be unmercifully scapegoated for his loss in Quebec. Cashiered out of the British army for a situation many of his brother officers agreed was not truly of his own making, Haldimand would go on to have a colorful career outside British service…
______
6. In the Fury of the Tempest: The Northern Campaigns, 1779:
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
The Continental Army had four objectives in the northern campaign of 1779. First, in the east, they hoped to capture Halifax, thus removing Britain's last substantial naval base in the north. Second, they were prepared to launch a second invasion of Quebec, this time to be spearheaded by the Marquis de Lafayette. A third force would operate in western and northern New York, driving the British out of their strongholds in the Champlain valley, and moving all the way to the capture of Fort Niagara. Finally, substantial reinforcements were to be sent west to the Ohio country, with the ultimate aim of capturing Fort Detroit, and thereby ending the threat to the frontiers of Pennsylvania and Virginia. It was obvious that Lafayette would command the assault into Quebec, but it was less clear who would command the other expeditions. Washington's intent was to give command of the attack on Halifax to Nathanael Greene, the New York command to Hamilton, and the Ohio command to General Daniel Morgan. Morgan's command was approved without incident, but New England members of congress pushed to replace Greene with Horatio Gates. Resigned, Washington eventually consented, giving command of the New York campaign to Greene, with Hamilton as his second. Washington planned to keep the forces destined for Halifax and Quebec together for an initial assault on Penobscot, the last British outpost in Maine. This attack was launched in late March, 1779. After a bitter two week siege, Penobscot fell. Deciding it would be sensible for him to remain there in order to coordinate the two independent Canadian expeditions, Washington, and his now diminished staff, remained behind with a central reserve force that could reinforce either of the two northern prongs if needed. Washington would be very glad of this strategic reserve in the fullness of time…
(Excerpt From: Britain in the American Revolution):
Sir Guy Carleton remained in command at Halifax, reinforced by a strong garrison. After the fall of Penobscot, he expected the main patriot attack to reach him there, though he did warn Frederick Haldimand, the commanding general and governor of Quebec, to expect a possible renewed patriot assault. Carleton, however, would prove fortunate in his opponent. Gates moved north, encountering little resistance until he came to the Nova Scotia peninsula. Carleton elected to allow Gates to invest the city, which he did on June 1, 1779. Unfortunately for Gates, he had by this time so infuriated the French Admiral commanding his naval support that the two men were hardly on speaking terms. Gates also ignored the advice of his chief engineer, Thaddeus Kosciuszko, on the placement of his siege works. That Kosciuszko would go on to have a varied career of great renowned, while Gates is now a footnote of interest only to historians of the American Revolution, speaks volumes about the two men. Unaware of the way in which his position left him exposed, Gates' feuding with the French fleet reached a point that they withdrew in disgust, finding it "impossible to work with the man". This was the chance for which Carleton had been waiting. Embarking about half the garrison on British ships now no longer pinned in Halifax Harbor by the French, Carleton landed them behind Gates’ troops, attacking his ill-prepared siege works on the morning of July 1. Gates compounded his error by attempting to both hold off the assault and storm Halifax at the same time. As a result, nearly 1000 continentals, including Gates himself, were killed. As the highest-ranking senior officer, Kosciuszko was left with the unenviable task of extracting the remaining patriot forces from their trap. It is a testament to his skill that, not only was he successful, but he bloodied Carleton's relief force quite sharply on his way. The French squadron, having raided Newfoundland, returned in time to support Kosciuszko's march south. While Washington put the blame squarely on Gates, many New England congressmen spoke of the "French perfidy that betrayed our cause at Halifax". Various motives were imputed, from French bitterness that the patriots were unwilling to consider returning Quebec to it to a conspiratorial belief that France feared its ally was growing too strong, and wished to preserve a British presence in North America to keep the two Anglophone powers at one another's throats. Whatever the reason, New England soon became a hot-bed of anti-French sentiment, to the point that French naval vessels were advised to avoid making port in Boston due to fear of riots…
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
Lafayette planned to recreate the two-pronged strategy used by Montgomery and Arnold, with a few modifications. First, he followed a new invasion route proposed by Moses Hazen, commander of the Second Canadian regiment. Hazen and his troops built a road through the Hampshire grants (now New Hampshire and Vermont), which could serve as an alternate route to the more arduous path taken by Arnold in 1775. Second, Arnold intended to bring more men, and attack in summer. "We must take Quebec City before the close of October, lest we suffer the same fate as Arnold and Montgomery," he wrote to Hamilton. Third, Lafayette hoped to be more successful in recruiting the French habitants, or tenet farmers, than Arnold and Montgomery had been. Due to long consultations with a rising young continental officer of Quebecois extraction named Clement Gosselin, he also understood the need to neutralize the opposition of the seigneurs and the Catholic Church, who dominated the province and remained loyal to the king out of fear of revolution, In order to achieve both aims, Lafayette engaged in sophisticated propaganda, letting the rumor be spread among the seigneurs that the colonists had agreed to restore French rule of Quebec, while encouraging the habitants to believe Quebec would become part of an egalitarian American republic. In effect, Lafayette promised all things to all people, in the hope that he might win at least some over to the patriot cause, and convince others to remain neutral. This strategy proved extremely effective…
(Excerpt From: Britain in the American Revolution):
Frederick Haldimand, governor and commanding General of Quebec, wrote anxious letters in the late Spring and early summer warning of foment among the "new subjects", as the French Quebecois were known. "Among the seigneuri, it is believed that France will come, while the habitants place their hope in the Americans. In neither case do they remain unswerving in their loyalty to the crown." Haldimand begged for reinforcement, but the crown had none to send. Lesley's forces in Florida were making preparations against a potential Spanish invasion, while Carleton could not spare any soldiers from the defense of Halifax. To the west, British and loyalist forces were experiencing their own difficulties due to Greene's lakes campaign. Thus, Haldimand found himself in the unenviable position of relying increasingly on local militias that, at the same time, he could no longer trust as fully. He initiated a wave of arrests and proscriptions, while at the same time promising more autonomy when the crisis had passed. This strategy might have worked, had the arrests not included a Catholic priest. The father in question, whose families were seigneurs, was accused of offering prayers to the king, but substituting Louis' name for that of King George. Though evidence is inconclusive, speculation among the new subjects was that this accusation came from an opportunistic Anglophone seigneur whose territory bordered that of the priest's family. Again, Haldimand was in a bind, needing to demonstrate British firmness and resolve on one hand and not antagonize the new subjects on the other. His compromise was to place the priest under house arrest and empower a commission to rapidly investigate the charges. Nevertheless, the Catholic church, previously a bastion of loyalist support, expressed their objection to "governmental interference in the church of Christ" in "the strongest terms possible". In the midst of this swirling chaos, Lafayette's invasion came as the breaking of the tempest…
(Excerpt From: Founding Family):
Lafayette went from success to success. In June, his main force marched up the Hazen Road, as it came to be called, and rapidly made progress toward Quebec. At the same time, a second smaller force under James Livingston's command marched to Montreal, investing and capturing the city. The two forces met up in Quebec's lower city, and laid siege to the upper city by July 29. Haldimand's appeals for more troops fell on deaf years, the Quebecois were by now alienated and in chaos, and a provisional patriot government was already forming at Montreal under the direction of Pierre Du Calvet, the Huguenot justice of the peace and prominent Quebecois liberal widely respected throughout the province. As the siege dragged on, Lafayette entered into covert negotiations with several prominent seigneurs, who desired assurances that their interests would be respected in the new dispensation, whatever that might be. Overjoyed, Lafayette made promises liberally. “I have made nearly all the seigneurs my friend”, he boasted in one letter for Hamilton. Lafayette’s love of popularity, admitted even by his friends to be his greatest weakness, would leave the young nation with a horribly tangled legacy in the war’s aftermath…
(Excerpt From: The British In the American Revolution):
A despondent Haldimand was left with no option but surrender by the end of September. On October 2, he and his remaining garrison were given generous terms, and Quebec City, at last, fell into patriot hands. The Quebec provisional assembly had, by this time, actually sent Valentin Jautard, John McCord and Fleury Mesplet as delegates to the continental congress, so in some ways the surrender of the garrison was a formality. Still, Haldimand would be unmercifully scapegoated for his loss in Quebec. Cashiered out of the British army for a situation many of his brother officers agreed was not truly of his own making, Haldimand would go on to have a colorful career outside British service…
Good update, and thanks for using my suggestions, that means a lot to me
.Do you plan to do any maps?
Getting rid of Gates is good luck for the Americans! My thoughts are turning suddenly to omelettes and broken eggs -- good riddance, I say.
I love how sneaky Lafayette is, and how much of a sucker he is for positive attention. I'd gladly have a drink with America's Favorite Fightin' Frenchman, but flaws are what make the man. I love to watch a good man's nature become his undoing. The situation in Quebec is very exciting, and I can't wait to see how it shakes out. I can't see the Quebecois or the Yankees being very happy as a couple, so I predict a divorce. Hopefully it's not too bloody, but given the "horribly tangled legacy in the war’s aftermath," I'm not sure how likely an amiable separation will be.
A great, realistic story as always. Keep up the good work.
I love how sneaky Lafayette is, and how much of a sucker he is for positive attention. I'd gladly have a drink with America's Favorite Fightin' Frenchman, but flaws are what make the man. I love to watch a good man's nature become his undoing. The situation in Quebec is very exciting, and I can't wait to see how it shakes out. I can't see the Quebecois or the Yankees being very happy as a couple, so I predict a divorce. Hopefully it's not too bloody, but given the "horribly tangled legacy in the war’s aftermath," I'm not sure how likely an amiable separation will be.
A great, realistic story as always. Keep up the good work.
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Now that was a great update; I look forward to seeing how Quebec develops as part of the United States. Part me wonders if LaFayette wouldn't be tempted by an eventual governorship of Quebec. However, he's young and a staunch Frenchman, and I doubt there is much that could could be done to prevent him from going home at this point in his life.
I also think you nailed his biggest flaw, especially as a young man; his desire for glory and praise can certainly undermine him, despite his brilliance and dedication. Although he got better as he got older, too.
Can't wait to see what happens next. After these two major defeats, on has to suspect that the British are going to have to see the writing on the wall sooner than later (although maintaining Halifax means they still have an important naval base to strike out at America).
I also think you nailed his biggest flaw, especially as a young man; his desire for glory and praise can certainly undermine him, despite his brilliance and dedication. Although he got better as he got older, too.
Can't wait to see what happens next. After these two major defeats, on has to suspect that the British are going to have to see the writing on the wall sooner than later (although maintaining Halifax means they still have an important naval base to strike out at America).
Good update, and thanks for using my suggestions, that means a lot to me
Do you plan to do any maps?
Sure thing. Borders are something I struggle with, so I'm happy to have good suggestions.
I'm blind, so I've never been able to do maps, but if someone has the skill and interest I'm happy to write you a description.
Glad you're still enjoying it.
I have two possible variations plotted out; one where Quebec leaves after the constitution is ratified and one where they don't. Both could be equally cool, so I'm curious what you guys think is more likely and/or interesting.
And just wait until you start to see Hamilton and Laurens' flaws act up. Hamilton's I have a good handle on. I'm still developing a full picture of Laurens' character, but it's going to be fun. [I'm also stoked to do more building on the characters of the Arnold/Burr/Wilkinson triumvirate of doom].