Five Colors for a Dime: A Comic Book Timeline (Redux)

[usertron2020]

This is super-cool. I am especially pleased that you eliminated Wertham's anti-comic crusade without trying to demonize him.

Especially since he WAS a demon. Wouldn't know the Scientific Method if it bit him in the ass.

 

[phx1138]

Count me subscribed, too. Looong time comics buff.

Bans on comic books that various cities had enacted such as Los Angeles were being found to be unconstitutional.

Any thoughts on the wartime Canadian industry? Or the postwar Canadian ban, including criminal sanctions?

Also, do you see any butterflies impacting Finger's decision to introduce Robin, or Ellsworth's decision to ban Bats killing?

Also, thinking of Late Plastic Age, what about the Millennium books? And the new X-men?

 

[Badshah]

Count me subscribed, too. Looong time comics buff.

Any thoughts on the wartime Canadian industry? Or the postwar Canadian ban, including criminal sanctions?

Also, do you see any butterflies impacting Finger's decision to introduce Robin, or Ellsworth's decision to ban Bats killing?

Also, thinking of Late Plastic Age, what about the Millennium books? And the new X-men?

Why would Robin be butterflied? The POD is 1945, which is five years after Robin's appearance.

 

[phx1138]

Amazing Web #145, in which the Web's long-time girlfriend Lynn Stacey was killed.

How does she last two years longer than OTL? (Presuming Gerry Conway is still writing the book... As I understand, he didn't like her.)

While death in comic books is rarely permanent, Mighty editorial degree has her death as permanent.

Which butterflies the clone stories... Does this also butterfly the Peter clone? And The Jackal?

Why would Robin be butterflied? The POD is 1945, which is five years after Robin's appearance.

I noticed that after I posted the question...

During the Golden Age, the only two American minority superheroes were Gleason's Bronze Terror and All-American's Whip.

OTL, there was a 1946 black hero, actually created by a black writer-artist team (or black writer-artist, don't recall which...), called Lion Man. He made all of one appearance in a black-run book...

 

[Brady Kj]

All-Negro comics had a pile of them, but I suppose most of them weren't superheroes.

As for Miss Stacy lasting longer, I thought this TL had her die in 1970, while in the real world, she lived until 1977?

 

[Badshah]

All-Negro comics had a pile of them, but I suppose most of them weren't superheroes.

As for Miss Stacy lasting longer, I thought this TL had her die in 1970, while in the real world, she lived until 19977?

She lived til 1973, OTL.

 

[phx1138]

Duke of Oil

*facepalm* This is #1000 on my list of Reasons I Hate DC. About 990 of them are the godawful stupid names.

Animal Man

Which has to be about as lame a name as DC ever came up with. Up there with Beast Boy.

Karate Man

Which, if anything, is worse than the LSH version OTL.

Also, who gave you the idea for Torch's name? Or was Ed Roberts too subtle?

She lived til 1973, OTL.

Except OTL it was Amazing 122. TTL, it's 145...which is about 2yr more, given she's introduced around the same time in TTL's Amazing.

[Cage] probably wouldn't have survived much past the Seventies without the teamup with Iron Fist

Cage wasn't helped by Marvel not being able to make up its mind what they wanted to do with him. Nor with the fact the writing was pretty awful...

The Powerfist teamup was pretty fluky, considering.

This will be no place for anything like the New X-Men.

Why not? New lineups for books that aren't selling aren't exactly news. Avengers, Titans, & LSH all saw changes. Why not Xmen? (That's "zhmen"...)

BTW, Stan claims The Mutants as the title was his idea, & senior management rejected it as too intelligent...

ITTL, Vietnam never escalated beyond Kennedy's advisor stage.

I do kind of wonder why not, but after the Bay of Pigs, I can buy this.

As a general rule the Golden Age All-American writers didn’t use sidekicks.

Seeing Robin boosted sales on Bats about double, why wouldn't they do what other companies did? Especially considering the target audience in the GA was 10yr olds...

Golden Age Bucky was shown to have assumed a new moniker in 1950s, the Volunteer.

Why not, say, The Patriot? Which would amount to a GA revival...unless you give him the SA Flash treatment.

Golden Wonder Man [was] obliviated by a DC lawsuit when the character first appeared. He will not making any appearances.

Has this butterflied the reuse of the name? Has this also happened elsewhere? (In the latter case, has it had further butterflies?) I ask because I kind of liked all three (especially Carol). And Rick Jones was the best sidekick I've ever seen.

Was there ever a Doom Patrol

More important, will Grant Morrison be writing it?

is J'onn the last Green Martian

That kind of makes me wonder if Lilandra didn't have a Martian in command of her flagship. (And what about the Red Martians? All dead?)

Marvel Girl with another name.

Please tell me she isn't plagued with those stupid dotted lines...

She will not become Phoenix.

Insofar as that was a "Marvel Woman upgrade" OTL, that saddens me somewhat.

All-American adapted Piper's stories for the "New Direction" titles. This puts Piper in a better financial situation. So, he does not commit suicide and lives until 1970, when he dies of a heart attack.

Nice idea, & I do appreciate the effort, but from what I've read, the trouble was the product of an idiot agent who kept no written records, & then died...

One other thing: why "5 colors"?

 

[neamathla]

Glad to see you're continuing this....please don't have Tim Burton make the Batman movies!

While I am a fan of the Burton films, if and when the Batman film(s) get made, he will not be involved. Michael Keaton will get a superhero film, just not Batman.

I love your Outsiders! Much better than OTL's Legion of Superheroes. How did you make these covers? What inspired you to make these lineups? Most of these look like original characters to me. And is it safe to assume that Nightcrawler and Wolverine are from places far from Germany and Canada?

I would love to take credit for them, but the Outsiders were created by the late Dave Cockrum. He intended to integrate them into the Legion universe. When that didn't work out, he transformed them into the new X-Men. For example, Trio and Tempest were merged to create Storm. Nightcrawler remained unchanged.

I use Gimp to modify and create the various images: covers, posters, and microheroes. Comics.org is my general source for covers.

Also, will Roy Thomas create something like Infinity Inc somewhere?

Yes. Right now, I think it will be at Escape. Currently, I have him going to Escape after Charlton. There, he will have the Fox and Nedor characters to play with. His encouragement is the main reason, Escape bought the Charlton superheroes.

I take it then that Flash Gordon didn't have a score by Queen.

Nope, it was Ken Thorne. He is an Academy Awards winner composer. As in OTL, he won for "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum". Some of the films he scored in both OTL and TTL were "Help!", "Inspector Clouseau", and "Royal Flash".

I thought that Wolverine was first drawn by John Romita Sr for Incredible Hulk #181. Shouldn't he be a Mighty or Escape character?

Perhaps this Wolverine is an unrelated character who happens to have the same name? Perhaps he is this timeline's Lobo.

The original Wolverine was just a man in a suit. So, anyone could be Wolverine. Cockrum changed this. He took Wein's Wolverine and added elements of the Wolverine he pitched to DC. This new Wolverine is one we all know and love. However, Cockrum's original Wolverine design did not go unused. When Claremont/Cockrum introduced the Imperial Guard, they made them a pastiche of DC's Legion. Cockrum would use some of his original Outsider designs.

In TTL, Wolverine's creators are at different companies. While Wein does create a clawed superhero, it is done for Charlton. The co-creator is Frank Springer, because Romita Sr. is at Mighty. The character is named Cougar. The character's power comes from his suit. He is killed by the Brute in his third appearance. The next appearance of the Cougar suit would be under the Escape banner.

The Wolverine name will appear at DC. He still created by Dave Cockrum and has OTL's Wolverine's healing powers. Instead of the claws coming out of the back his hand, his hands transform. During the Eighties, the character will evolve from villain to anti-hero.


Clawed Superheroes

So, is Lobo one of The Outsiders' later villains? Or will he be giving The Guardians fits?

Depends on which version of Lobo, we're talking about, the 80s bounty hunter in spandex or 90s anti-hero in leather. The original Lobo first appeared in the pages of the Omega Men. The character is fairly unremarkable. However, due to the similarities between the Outsiders and the Omega Men (superheroes in space), I have placed the Omega Men within the Outsiders universe. So, spandex bounty hunter Lobo exists there. As far the 90s anti-hero is concerned, I think that kind of character will exist, but he won't be a space biker named Lobo.

I love how all of Neamathla's characters look like they're created in the time periods they're supposed to be from. I've seen people fail to do that a lot. Great work, Neamathla!

I like the new sketch of Thor much better.

Thank you both.

A Steven Spielberg Supes. Why didn't the Salkinds try to wrestle it back from him after the first movie? Richard Donner made almost as much money and they still screwed him over. Or did Warner Brothers still by DC's parent company ITTL?

In OTL, Donner was going to be fired no matter what. The Salkinds didn't like him and wanted Richard Lester. While Spielberg is in a similar position, he has Universal behind him. After all, in the last three years, he has given them their two biggest films ever. So when came to shove, Spielberg won. In TTL, the Salkinds' three hour special television edition does not exist. Universal retained all television rights.

So which villains did Spielberg use? Lex? Brainiac? Metallo? Bizarro? Parasite? Silver Banshee? Toyman? Prankster? Ultreaa? General Zod? Richard Pryor and the J.R. Ewing stand-in who would inspire OTL Post Crisis Lex?

The first film had Lex Luthor. The second used Brainiac. The third used the Overlord. Luthor appears in the third film, but not as the main villain. The Overlord was the character that I previously named the Master. The third film is based on Elliot S! Maggin's novel, Superman: Last Son of Krypton .

Oh, and did Mark Hamil play Jimmy Olsen?

No, he played Pete Ross. In TTL, Smallville had a longer segment in the movie.

Just for grins, here are roles for the cast listed on the movie poster. I did redo the poster I forgot to put the Lara actress in the credits.
Paul Newman: Jor-El
Gene Hackman: Lex Luthor [Hackman played the role more serious/scary than IOTL]
Christopher Reeve: Superman/Clark Kent
Richard Dreyfus: Inspector Henderson
Glenn Ford: Pa Kent
Keenen Wynn: Perry White
Robby Benson: Jimmy Olsen
Meryl Streep: Lois Lane
Bibi Andersson: Lara
David Prowse: Otis Teschmacher [Lex's assistant/henchman]
Marc McClure: young Clark Kent
Annette O'Toole: Lana Lang
Mark Hamill: Pete Ross
Phyllis Thaxter: Ma Kent

Why do I get the impression that Ron Perelman (The corporate raider, not the actor) will be seen as a white knight after so many years of mismanagement of Mighty, at least in the begining? (Especially if Michael Eisner never makes president and the position stays within the Disney family.)

Since I don't plan to include any of this except maybe as footnote, here is a quick recap of Disney's fortunes in the 1970s/early 1980s. In TTL, Roy O. Disney didn't retire (or die) in 1971. When first informed of the issues with Western/Gold Key in 1972, he made the suggestion to create their own comic division. Shortly thereafter he died of a heart attack. His son, Roy E. Disney, took over. This began the conflict among the executives of the company. The conflict caused to the company to stagnate. Things came to head in 1979. Roy E. Disney resigned and Ron Miller took over as CEO. Miller inspired by Mighty creates Touchstone Films. This allows them to make non-G rated films with damaging the Disney brand. They also get Walt Disney World's second park, Progress Kingdom, back on track. Despite his actions, Disney was still vulnerable. In 1982, Disney was targeted by "greenmailer" Saul Steinberg. Roy E. Disney fought Steinberg via a new investment group. New leadership was brought in, Michael Eisner and Frank Wells. They swept out the intransient leadership. The Disney brand (including Mighty) would undergo renaissance.

Perelman will play a role in the first part of the Iron Age.

So, what's Ollie's new origin this time? And how long will it stick?

GA's origin remains based on the Golden Age story. The Untold Legend of the Green Arrow does not revise his origin, but merely consolidates all various facts that have been presented over the years. It is essentially OTL's Untold Legend of the Batman starring Green Arrow.

Since there might be some unfamiliarity with OTL's Golden Age Green Arrow origin, I am providing TTL's Green Arrow origin story as presented in the Untold Legend .

The Queen family is old money. When patriarch Edward Queen died, the family fortune was to spread between his three sons. William was quite content to leech on the family fortune, while greedy Charles only wants to gain more money. However, Oliver's father, James was different. He and his wife Anne decided to make their own way. So, they put the money into trust for his son, Oliver.
The Queens became VISTA volunteers and sent to work on the Quontauka Indian Reservation in the western United States. It was here in the great outdoors that young Oliver acquired a variety of survival skills. He learned hunt, track, plant and animal identification. He also discovered his affinity for archery. The Quontauka taught Oliver to appreciate their culture as well the histories and cultures of other Native Americans nations. Oliver graduated from Bronze State University with degrees in archeology and history. As a member of the archery team, he lead them to four national championships.
His parents were killed in a car crash on the way to see him compete for a spot on the US National Archery team. To deal with his grief, Oliver through himself into his dream of creating a national museum dedicated to Native American culture. Oliver spent months acquiring a great collection. However, a botched robbery resulted in the destruction of the warehouse. Following Charles's advice, a depressed Oliver began his search for the lost city of the ancient Khe-Wannantu.
After several weeks, his search takes him to the barely explored Sierra Suegra. He rents a helicopter to explore the area. After landing on the Lost Mesa, he meets George Quoag and Roy Harper. [1] They had been stranded for several months. On the way to George's shelter, the group is ambushed. These ambushers are the same criminals who destroyed Oliver's warehouse. They are able to defend themselves with bows and arrows, but George is mortally wounded. They take shelter in an unexplored cave. The criminals believe the trio is trapped. However, they have retreated deep into the cave. Roy find a passage that takes them deep into the mesa. Eventually, the passage opens onto a large hidden city. The hidden city is Dhonu, capital of Khe-Wannantu Empire. The fight continues as the criminals enter the city. The gang's comments during the conflict lead to their codenames. [2] The fight comes to an unceremonious end by the gang injudicious use of explosives. They end up killing themselves by caving in part of the roof. Before George passes, Oliver pledges to take care of Roy. [3]
Upon returning to Star City, Oliver tracks down who hired the criminals. It turns out to be his uncle, but to his surprise it is William and not Charles. The whole adventure convinces Oliver to take up his costumed identity, Green Arrow. He is quickly joined by Roy as Speedy.

[1] Henry, Roy's father, and George were childhood friends. After Roy's mother died, Henry returned to the west. He and George formed a guide service. One day, the three (Henry, George, and Roy) decided to explore the area around the Lost Mesa. Their plane crashed on the mesa. Henry died from injuries shortly thereafter.

[2] The two comments are "That big guy shoots a mean green arrow" and "Look out for that speedy kid".

[3] George was a member of the Quontauka Nation. So, he knew what kind of person Oliver was. Therefore had faith he would raise Roy right.

Why do I get the impression that Sinea will form the foundation for an ATL Dark Horse Comcs?

Sinea is inspired by OTL's Roger Broughton. The company makes money via character characters and reprints.

In OTL, rankings of the top comic book heroes invariably include Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and Wolverine -- who, TTL, would be likewise universally lauded?

In 1980, "The Buyer's Guide to Comics Fandom" ran a top ten poll. The results in alphabetic order are Aquaman, Captain America, Challengers of the Unknown, Comet, Flash, Green Arrow, Scarlet Surfer, Superman, Web, and Wonder Woman.

I have a related question for Neamathla, and anyone who feels like guessing. ITTL, what superhero titles have made it through the rough years between the Golden and Silver Ages without getting canceled? I'm guessing there were more than three.

There were only four dedicated purely to superheroes and they were at DC. They were Action Comics, Batman, Superman, and World's Finest. DC had two titles, Adventure Comics and Detective Comics that occasionally ran a superhero feature. For example, Detective Comics would usually run a Batman story and two "gimmick" detective stories (e.g. Captain Compass, the nautical detective and Roy Raymond, the TV detective). Adventure Comics would run a single superhero story every other issue, but it would be a rehash of another superhero's story. For example, "Batman of Many Nations" becomes "Green Arrows of the World" and "Superman's Big Brother" (with Halk Kar) became "Superboy's Big Brother" (with Lar Gand). Other titles either were cancelled or shifted genres.

As for the remaining companies, MLJ/Archie ended their superhero line in 1946. Fawcett Comics ceased publishing in 1951. 1952 saw the last superheroes from Atlas, Gleason, and Quality. January 1953 was the end for All-American's last three superhero titles. From 1946 to 1956, two companies, Charlton and Magazine Enterprises, would publish nine superheroes stories over six titles. The longest run being two issues.

Also, I have some artistic suggestions. Could you make the Web's color scheme resemble those of the Golden Age Web? I find the Silver Age one's colors to be unappealing.

That has always been my intention, but never have gotten the color quite right. First, I had it too bright, now I think it is too muted. I took another stab at it. I think it's a little better. I don't think the reversing the colors work, but I thought I include it anyways. The last character is the Web microhero I based the colors on.


A trio of Webs

And could you make the Green Mask's trunks blue? I think he'd look much better with one less color, and it seems that OTL's Green Mask usually had blue trunks.

I think you're right. I've updated the original graphic.

 

[neamathla]

Any thoughts on the wartime Canadian industry? Or the postwar Canadian ban, including criminal sanctions?

I think the trends in non-American comics remain basically on track. By the time my POD affects national politics, it too late to save the Canadian comic book industry. The Canadian revival of the 1970s is slightly stronger due to the fragmentation of OTL's "Big Two" and more widespread acceptance of underground titles. Most international characters such as Asterix the Gaul and Judge Dredd still arrive roughly on time.

Why not, say, The Patriot? Which would amount to a GA revival...unless you give him the SA Flash treatment.

Bucky only exists on Earth-Zero (home of all the Golden Age characters) where the Patriot already exists.

Has this butterflied the reuse of the name? Has this also happened elsewhere? (In the latter case, has it had further butterflies?) I ask because I kind of liked all three (especially Carol). And Rick Jones was the best sidekick I've ever seen.

All-American has used the name twice. The first was a male version of Wonder Woman. The second was your standard brick. Neither character caught on. Despite that, the other companies have ceded the name to All-American. OTL's Captain Mar-Vell is TTL's Captain Atom. The Ms. Marvel equivalent appeared at Escape, Roy Thomas didn't create the character until after he left Charlton. Unfortunately, Rick Jones wasn't created in TTL.

More important, will Grant Morrison be writing it?

He will be writing something, I still working on what.

Please tell me she isn't plagued with those stupid dotted lines...
Insofar as that was a "Marvel Woman upgrade" OTL, that saddens me somewhat.

As Claremont is at Charlton and Escape during Marvel Girl's Phoenix phase, any upgrade to Mighty Girl will not be to a cosmic level. Besides, Disney would never let one of their heroes commit genocide. Assume Mighty Girl changes her name to Mighty Woman in 1984.

Nice idea, & I do appreciate the effort, but from what I've read, the trouble was the product of an idiot agent who kept no written records, & then died...

Piper has always been a favorite of mine. In TTL, Piper has a personal relationship with Gaines. So, He sends Piper's checks directly to him. Thus avoiding some of the mess with the agent.

One other thing: why "5 colors"?

The first book I read on the history of comic books was "All in Color for a Dime". However for some reason, I always misremember as "Four Colors for a Dime". That was the title I tweaked, adding a fifth color, white (the paper), to the title.

 

[phx1138]

I think the trends in non-American comics remain basically on track. By the time my POD affects national politics, it too late to save the Canadian comic book industry. The Canadian revival of the 1970s is slightly stronger due to the fragmentation of OTL's "Big Two" and more widespread acceptance of underground titles. Most international characters such as Asterisk and Judge Dread still arrive roughly on time.

Thx. Mostly, tho, I was thinking about the '50s. In the U.S., there was hysteria thanks in part to Wertham. It seems, in Canada at the time, there was much the same, which led to a criminal penalty (& a few charges) for books (or publishers) "contributing to delinquency" or somesuch. (I can't recall the specifics...). I wondered if the change in U.S. attitude TTL impacted that.

Bucky only exists on Earth-Zero (home of all the Golden Age characters) where the Patriot already exists.

Pat was the first guy to come to mind, only. So, Bucky doesn't get renovated with a "Hobgoblin treatment"?

All-American has used the name twice. The first was a male version of Wonder Woman. The second was your standard brick. Neither character caught on. Despite that, the other companies have ceded the name to All-American. OTL's Captain Mar-Vell is TTL's Captain Atom. The Ms. Marvel equivalent appeared at Escape, Roy Thomas didn't create the character until after he left Charlton.

Thx.

Unfortunately, Rick Jones wasn't created in TTL.

One of the side-effects of no sidekicks.

He will be writing something, I still working on what.

If it's not DP, I'm not sure I care. His run there was among the best stuff I've ever seen. (Also, unquestionably, the weirdest.)

any upgrade to Mighty Girl will not be to a cosmic level.

Oh, no, I don't mean cosmic. Jean got the same treatment Sue would: new look &, best of all, and end to the dotted lines; if all she got was a mild power bump, it'd suit me fine. Since that also means she wouldn't die, even better.

Piper has always been a favorite of mine. In TTL, Piper has a personal relationship with Gaines. So, He sends Piper's checks directly to him. Thus avoiding some of the mess with the agent.

Ah. Excellent. I'm also a fan of his, so the idea of Return of Space Viking or more fuzzies is a good thing. (I do hope this doesn't butterfly Golden Dream, tho. D'you suppose Piper would have opposed it? Tho he'd have been dead awhile then, anyhow...)

The first book I read on the history of comic books was "All in Color for a Dime". However for some reason, I always misremember as "Four Colors for a Dime". That was the title I tweaked, adding a fifth color, white (the paper), to the title.

Makes sense.

 

[Brady Kj]

Except OTL it was Amazing 122. TTL, it's 145...which is about 2yr more, given she's introduced around the same time in TTL's Amazing.

Amazing must been a weekly series for a while due to good sales.

Why not? New lineups for books that aren't selling aren't exactly news. Avengers, Titans, & LSH all saw changes. Why not Xmen? (That's "zhmen"...)

True, but with the creators at different companies, and Mighty being run by Disney, it will be a very different team.



Will there be any good comedy superhero teams in the near future?

 

[phx1138]

Amazing must been a weekly series for a while due to good sales.

I doubt it. That was a distinctly '90s stupidity.

it will be a very different team

No argument there....

Will there be any good comedy superhero teams in the near future?

Considering Disney ownership, what are the chances for *JLI/JLE ending up there?

 

[FDW]

Wow, this is an amazing TL, consider me subscribed.

 

[Brady Kj]

How much is TTL's Green Lantern like Captain Comet? Is he a mutant? Is there a comet involved?
Also, Batman questions. IOTL, Alfred died and Catwoman fell into obscurity. Bruce's Aunt Harriet was created to add a third character to the household and put a female face in the book. The TV show brought back Alfred and Catwoman. What is the status of Alfred, Catwoman, and Harriet ITTL?

Also, is there anything resembling Krypto, Comet, or the other super-animals? Perhaps Wonder Woman has them ITTL, seeing as how she has a cousin who seems to be a version of Supergirl.

Does any comic book company not use a shared universe?

What are Eastman and Laird going to be up to?

How many questions are too many?

By the way, I like your most recent pictures of the Web. I think the one with the green mask and chest is the best, but the other one's okay as well.

 

[unclepatrick]

The Golden Age Superheroes In Other Media

The popularity of superheroes during the Golden Age allowed them to spread into other media. Not surprising, Superman made the first move by joining the funny pages. The Superman comic strip ran from 1939 to 1966. From 1943 to 1946, Batman would also appear in newspapers. Soon Superman moved to the airwaves. The Superman radio program began in 1940. It would last until 1951. The other superheroes that would join Superman on the radio were that the Blue Beetle, the Black Hood, and the Flash. The Blue Beetle (1940) and Black Hood (1942) programs would only last six months, while the Flash (1946) would be on the air for two years. In addition to the radio program, Superman appeared in two sets of cartoons (1941 and 1942) produced by Fleischer Studios and Famous Studios respectively.


Ad for the Blue Beetle Radio program (1940)

As expected, movie serials would be the next destination for superheroes. However, the first superhero movie serial wasn't Superman, but his competition.[4] The "Adventures of Captain Marvel" premiered in 1941. It was followed by "Spy Smasher" (1942), "Batman" (1943), "Captain America" (1944), "The Flash" (1946), "Superman" (1947), "The Power of the Green Lantern" (1948), "Superman Returns" (1948), "Batman & Robin" (1949), and "Superman vs. Doctor Atom" (1950).
In 1951, the first superhero feature film was released, "Superman and the Moon Menace". Using the film as a springboard, Superman would move to television. Kirk Alyn and Noel Neill would reprise their roles as Superman/Clark Kent and Lois Lane. "The Adventures of Superman" would run from 1952 to 1958.[5]


Kirk Alyn as Superman in "Superman Returns" (1948)

--------------------------------
.[/QUOTE]

I am enjoying this time line, Thanks for your hard work. Love the Flash as a Radio show. But how could any studio do a Green Lantern Film serial with a serial low budget and 1940 effects? The ring rays would have to be animated and in 1948, this is done by hand. I just do not see it at that time. '
Why not do a Wonder Woman serial? Female leads in Serial were not unheard of. Republic did several.
Who did you see starting in the Flash Serial?

 

[TaintedTamt]

Are there any plans to have a merger between two of the companies? Similar to DC buying Fawcett in OTL?

 

[neamathla]

How much is TTL's Green Lantern like Captain Comet? Is he a mutant? Is there a comet involved?

Other than the occasionally adapted story, the only similarities to Captain Comet are the civilian id and the Guardians.

Also, Batman questions. IOTL, Alfred died and Catwoman fell into obscurity. Bruce's Aunt Harriet was created to add a third character to the household and put a female face in the book. The TV show brought back Alfred and Catwoman. What is the status of Alfred, Catwoman, and Harriet ITTL?

Alfred was still killed, but in 1965 not 1964. A few issues later, his brother Wilfred was brought in as a replacement. His original personality was the stereotypical stiff upper-lipped Englishman, but this changed with Batman TV series. Actor Dennis Price duplicated his portrayal of P. G. Wodehouse's Jeeves for Wilfred and that characterization stuck.

Aunt Harriet doesn't exist as her two creators work for All-American.

Without the pressure of the CCA, Catwoman continues to appear. She retains her femme fatale persona.

Also, is there anything resembling Krypto, Comet, or the other super-animals? Perhaps Wonder Woman has them ITTL, seeing as how she has a cousin who seems to be a version of Supergirl.

Of the five members of the Legion of Super-Pets, only Krypto and Streaky exist. As far as Comet goes, I always felt he was a little disturbing. So he doesn't exist in TTL. The villainous Titano uses elements of Beppo's origins.

Does any comic book company not use a shared universe?

Not after the 1960's. However, not every title produced by a given company is part of the shared universe. For example, Escape's Cosmic Kingdom (OTL's Fourth World saga) does not crossover with their superhero multiverse.

What are Eastman and Laird going to be up to?

Is noted in the next update.

How many questions are too many?

There is no such thing as too many questions. Some questions remind me about an element I have forgotten or rethink others.

I am enjoying this time line, Thanks for your hard work. Love the Flash as a Radio show. But how could any studio do a Green Lantern Film serial with a serial low budget and 1940 effects? The ring rays would have to be animated and in 1948, this is done by hand. I just do not see it at that time. '
Why not do a Wonder Woman serial? Female leads in Serial were not unheard of. Republic did several.
Who did you see starting in the Flash Serial?

Here is an example how I image the effects working in the GL serial. In place of glowing giant boxing gloves, Green Lantern will say something such as "I will use my ring to freeze him". Then they will cut to a stock shot of the glowing GL ring. The next shot will show a thug under a spotlight not moving. Using his ring to stun someone works the same way (the spotlight).

A Wonder Woman serial was planned, but for whatever reason it never got made.

Clayton Moore played the Flash, while Walter Reed was the Green Lantern.

Are there any plans to have a merger between two of the companies? Similar to DC buying Fawcett in OTL?

Not currently, but this timeline seems to go its own way.

 

[Brady Kj]

That's because you're actually channeling an alternate universe, like so many Earth Prime writers.

 

[neamathla]

Merchandising has long been part of comic companies moneymaking. It was a simple formula, just take a generic item and slap on a particular superhero's icon while increasing the price to "Superhero Item X". While profitable, the early 1970s found Stan Lee looking for something besides toys and games to "expand the brand". He decided to try books. In 1973, he arranged for Simon & Schuster to publish Origins of Mighty Comics. This book would reprint the first appearances and/or origins of key Mighty superheroes. Despite selling well no follow-ups were published.[1] While Mighty did not capitalize on its success, DC did. As part of DC's Fortieth Anniversary, Random House published Superman: From the Thirties to the Seventies (Vol. 1) and Batman: From the Thirties to the Seventies (Vol. 1). Both sold very well.[2] The Mighty book inspired both Escape and All-American. Instead of reprint books, Escape went with prose novels. Despite not being an exact copy of the mainstream Escape universe, they gained a solid following. The series continues to this day.[3] However, All-American published a series of origin books starting with Secret Origins of All-American Superheroes.[4]


The Back cover to Secret Origins of All-American Superheroes (1976).

Besides books, action figures would prove a lucrative market in 1970s. The first Action Figure was introduced in 1964 with Hasbro's Action Force line.[5] Initially a military man, in 1970 he expanded into adventuring in space and under the sea. It was only a matter of time before someone licensed some superheroes to compete. That someone would be Mego. Mego would manage to gain licenses to three of the "Big Four" companies.[6] In 1973, the first wave of Mego's "World's Greatest Superheroes!" line would be released. By the late 1970s, the large-scale figures were beginning to loose their appeal. Between inflation and the increase in petroleum prices, the profit margin began to shrink. In the meantime, Mego had been negotiating to bring Microman to America. When that fell through, they would convert prototypes over existing licenses, Flash Gordon.[7] The success of the smaller figures convinced Mego to rescale their superhero line. Thus "All-Star Squadron" was born. The phenomenal success of the Superman trilogy escalated sales of the smaller figures. The end result would keep them in the black for years.


Superman action figure from Mego's All-Star Squadron line (circa 1978).

Of course, merchandizing works both ways. As groups like Action for Children's Television started to achieve their goals, toy companies began looking for new "infotainment" outlets. Until the unexpected success of DC's Masters of the Universe, toy companies hadn't sought to expand beyond the comic book ad space.[8] The initial titles focused on their action figure lines. Soon, they would expand to other types such as Care Bears. Occasionally, the toy companies would use a miniseries as way to gage interest in a toy line.[9] DC's initial success leads them to chase fads throughout the eighties. As Escape and All-American never found a popular property, they would exit the toy genre before the end of the decade.


Masters of the Universe #1 (December 1981).

By the early eighties, the comics magazine market had undergone a shift. Of the top ten selling magazines, only Howling Metal was not published by Fables/All-American, Mainline/Escape, or Hampshire/DC. Previous competitors Skywald and Charlton had ceased publication and another competitor, Warren Publishing, was in trouble.[10] Due to owner James Warren's illness and bad business decisions, the company was bankrupt. The 1983 changes in Disney management allowed a newly revitalized Mighty to enter the magazine market. They quickly acquired Warren. Under the "Red Circle" imprint, the rejuvenated "Warren" titles quickly made Mighty competitive.


Creepy #154, the first Red Circle magazine (April 1984).

While elements of the direct market existed before 1970's, Phil Seuling brought it all together in 1972. He approached the publishers with a deal. He would purchase books on a non-returnable basis for a large discounts. The traditional model allowed distributors to return unsold books for a credit which ate into comic companies' profits. Seuling's new company, Seagate Distribution, allowed for quicker delivery to the comic specialty stores. Soon, additional direct distribution companies formed. In 1978, New Media brought an anti-trust suit against Seagate. New Media's partial victory lead to a more level playing field. As Seagate's dominance waned, a consolidation of the market occurred. Basically for the next decade, five distributors would control the market. They were Blue Dolphin Enterprises, Big Rapids Distribution, New Media, Seagate Distribution, and Superhero Enterprises.


Mike Douglas, Phil Seuling, Wendy Pini, and Jamie Farr on the set of "the Mike Douglas Show" (July 28, 1977).

The growth of the direct market helped the sidestreet comics undergo a re-growth. The ability to order small amounts allowed stores to chances on more "adventurous" titles, which in turn allowed small publishers to reach a wider audience. A prime example would be Mirage Studios' Teen Mutant Ninja Turtles.[11] Soon, the market would be flooded with new publishers. The majority of these produced creator-owned books. Besides the humor and superhero (both original and renovated) genres, the market help establish the serial drama genre (e.g. Love & Rockets). In 1986, the inevitable crash that follows any boom occurred. Many of the smaller publishers vanished. The medium-sized companies that survived the crash would jokingly nicknamed the "Mid-Majors".[12] The success of the Mid-Majors lead All-American, DC, and Escape to each establish an imprint that published creator-owned titles.[13] Despite achieving various levels of success, these imprints would be phased out by the mid-1990s.


Teen Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 (June 1984).

By the time the Bronze Age was coming to a close, the corporations that dominated the mass media arena had consolidated to nineteen.[14] Initially, the consolidation ignored the book/magazine publishers. The Archie/Mighty acquisition by Disney was the exception. The other three of the Big Four had remained undisturbed. That change with the dawn of the Eighties. DC changed hands three times in the early 1980's. In 1980, Metromedia purchased Cadence Industries, DC’s parent company. In turn, they merged with 20th Century Fox in 1982. Two years later, MetroFox (the company's new name) was acquired by Turner Enterprises. CBS Publications bought All-American Publications in 1983. Escape resisted purchasers until Gulf+Western acquired them in 1986.


The logos for the "Big Four" and their parent companies (1986).

--------------------------------

[1] Mighty has never stated why it never followed up with more books. As Stan Lee was the author/editor, most people believe the head of Mighty, Thomas Anderson, did it to spite Lee. For unknown reasons, Anderson had a lot of animosity towards Lee.

[2] Other books in the series included Green Arrow: From the Forties to the Seventies, Captain Marvel: From the Forties to the Seventies, Superman: From the Thirties to the Seventies (Vol. 2), and Superman: From the Thirties to the Seventies (Vol. 3). The second two Superman volumes were released in the wake of the success of "Man of Steel". Despite the title, Batman never got additional volumes.

[3] Mark Evanier was responsible for the first six novels. He also wrote the novelizations for the first two Superman movies. The adaptations so impressed Spielberg that he hired Evanier to write the third screenplay. Because of all of this work, Evanier gets him job at Escape.

[4] The first book included both Golden Age and Silver Age origins for the ten most popular All-American superheroes. They also produced "Famous First Editions", giant-sized first issue reprints.

[5] The original four members of the Action Force were pilot Ace, soldier Joe, marine Rocky, and sailor Skip. As the decade progressed, additional ethnicities/nationalities were added. In 1977, in an effort to compete with Mego, Hasbro acquired the license to Charlton's superheroes. They also created new superhero like figures such as the Bionic Man (a knockoff of Steve Austin: Cyborg).

[6] Disney and Mego couldn't agree over terms. Mighty wouldn't have any action figures until Mattel produced its "Pocket Superhero" line in 1979.

[7] Kenner eventually brought Microman to the US under the "Inner Space" banner.[A]

[8] I am excluding the occasional movie one-shot such as Evel Knievel and C-M-O Comics, a catalog disguised as a comic book.

[9] A prime example is DC's three issue the Saga of Insecthor. It was critical and financial failure. The proposed toy line was canceled. However, sales weren't always a good predictor. COBOL ran for 100 issues plus a four issue miniseries, but this did not translate to toy sales. The COBOL action figure was discontinued a year after it was introduced.

[10] Skywald's owners have made accusations about their competitors forcing them out by flooding the market. However, I have never found any creditable of this.

[11] According to Eastman and Laird, they were inspired by George Perez's Teen Paladins (All-American), John Byrne's the Mutants (Mighty), and Frank Miller's Ronin (DC).

[12] The generally agreed upon list of the Mid-Majors for the late Bronze/early Iron Ages are Comico, Eclipse, First, Infinity, Pacific, and Valiant.

[13] Both All-American's Savant and DC's Brightstar imprints lasted from 1984 to 1994. While Escape's Magnum lasted 1983 to 1997.

[14] By way of comparison there were about fifty such companies in 1970.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[A] Unlike OTL where Microman was separated into Mego's Micronauts line and Hasbro's Transformers line, TTL has them as a single line.

This is not OTL's Valiant, but rather one based OTL's New Universe.

 

[unclepatrick]

Who wrote the scripts for Spielberg Superman Films?
In our timeline William Goldman was ask and turn them down.
They Considered Leigh Brackett and Alfred Bester before ending up with Mario Puzo.