Five Colors for a Dime: A Comic Book Timeline (Redux)

[Kalvan]

All-American uses a multiverse. The Golden Age characters exist on Earth-Zero, while Silver/Bronze Age characters are on Earth-One. All Marvel characters published before 1958 are property of All-American. So the All-Winners Squad exists alongside the JSA on Earth-Zero. Roy Thomas still created the Invaders, but with Nedor characters instead.

Why am I flashing to a future Elseworlds story by Roy Thomas, Jeph Loeb, or Paul Dini and Alex Ross involving one Stevie Rogers as a latter-day Wonder Girl/Woman? Between a demigoddess mother and supersoldier serum guinea pig father, with liberal doses of Lamarck Was Right, she'll have to beat suitors off with a sword of Haphaestus and Shield of Liberty!

Thanks to Weisinger keeping Batman and Superman to himself, Green Arrow got to shine as a member of DC's Legion of Superheroes. He is more popular than in our timeline.

I could have sworn that New Fun/More Fun was an All American book. Certainly all the rest of the Seven Soldiers of Victory were All American characters. I had had high hopes that Green Arrow could have been All American's rough equivalent of Batman. Still, this is a better fate fior Ollie than OTL so far, even if it means no Hard Travelling Heroes.

Snip.

1. No. ITTL, Vietnam never escalated beyond Kennedy's advisor stage. Characters with a connection to Vietnam are extremely rare.
2. No. Deathstroke is a DC villain.
3. As a general rule the Golden Age All-American writers didn’t use sidekicks. I kept that idea going. So sidekicks are very rare. So a Silver/Bronze Age Bucky wasn't created. Cap only got Golden Girl as a partner because the TV people wanted her. The Captain America and Bucky stories of the 1950s were assigned to Earth-Six. Instead, the Golden Age Bucky was shown to have assumed a new moniker in 1950s, the Volunteer.
4. Actually, this was a mistake. I began to apply pieces of Captain Comet's history to Green Lantern. So I changed swapped GL's ID with Cap's ID, but forgot to update the graphic. I have corrected this mistake. Cap's ID is now Hal Jordon and GL is Adam Blake.

In otherwords, that wasn't Steve in the campy '60s show, it was Hal. Why do I get the feeling that Hal will be getting it worse than OTL Kara, but not let to come back?

1. No. This character does not exist. The Green Lantern Corps does not exist, but the Guardians do. GL is just one of many agents the Guardians use. The Guardians that I have in mind are those that appeared in the Captain Comet stories. The name will pop up in GL mythos, because of GL/Lensmen connections.
2. Yes. They are origins are slightly different.

You've just broken Alan Moore's, Dave Gibbons', Peter David's, Jeph Loeb's, and Geoff John's little hearts. And Mine.

Snip.

1. None. His origin is closely related to the Silver Age Aquaman. ITTL, DC continues to use Aquaman's Golden Age origin. So TTL's Aquaman is not an Atlantean and Atlantis is full of merpeople (such as Lori Lemaris). His ID comes from main protagonist of the Poe novel, The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket. Stingray's ID is the same as another character in the novel.

Within this context, what does Arther Curry have to do with the price of tea in China?

BTW, Does Mr. Pym ever get to meet Namor?

Snip.

1. Not exactly. Throughout the Silver and Bronze Ages, there is considerable debate on whether he is a metahuman or not (similar to debate on OTL's Green Arrow). The debate will be rendered moot by a revelation in the mid-1990s.

Please tell me that Tony Isabella or Christopher Priest is writing that storyline. Please!

1. None. I originally planned to use Moon Girl's origin, but thought it seemed overly sexist even for the 1950s. So I merged elements from the Silver Age Hawkgirl's origin into it. She is an envoy from the planet Thanagar. She first came to Earth chasing Byth, the shape-changing thief and decided to stay.
2. Neither. She is Wonder Woman's cousin.

In other words, she's All American's version of Starman, or the Just Imagine Stan Lee Superman, as a distaff counterpart.

 

[Brady Kj]

Looks pretty cool.
Did All American have any characters it didn't reboot? To me, reinventing everyone is a sign that the company's in trouble.
Is Elongated Man's relationship with his wife the same? (Please say yes!)
Do the All American characters cross over with characters from other Earths once a year? Is this called a crisis?
Can we assume that Dr. Midnight has our Guy Gardner's tough guy personality?
Is Hal Jordan a test pilot who was selected for genetic tests?
What can you tell me about these Guardians of the Universe?
Does Batman still have his Silver Age redesign? I understand he was given it by the artist behind the Flash to appeal more strongly to Flash fans. In this case, what does the Batmobile look like?
Would you be interested in making a separate thread about the characters and stories, or would you rather not plan those things out?


And finally, what ended the Vietnam War? Were the people of the world simply happier because they had more comics to read?

 

[neamathla]

I could have sworn that New Fun/More Fun was an All American book. Certainly all the rest of the Seven Soldiers of Victory were All American characters. I had had high hopes that Green Arrow could have been All American's rough equivalent of Batman. Still, this is a better fate fior Ollie than OTL so far, even if it means no Hard Travelling Heroes.

The Seven Soldiers were DC's answer to the Justice Society. There is a version of the "Hard Travelling Heroes". It is a Starman/Sandman team. Green Arrow had to evolve beyond "Batman with a bow", because Weisinger was keeping Batman static (1950s version). This Green Arrow is similar to O'Neil/Adams Batman.

In otherwords, that wasn't Steve in the campy '60s show, it was Hal. Why do I get the feeling that Hal will be getting it worse than OTL Kara, but not let to come back?

The Captain America TV show is not camp. It is action with touches of comedy. I would say it is closer to first season of "the Man from UNCLE" with elements of "Get Smart". While his name is Hal Jordan, his personality was closer to the way Van Williams played the Green Hornet.

Within this context, what does Arther Curry have to do with the price of tea in China?

BTW, Does Mr. Pym ever get to meet Namor?

Yea, I wasn't very clear.
Sub-Mariner's origin: His mother fled from Atlantis, when a coup usurps the royal family. She was rescued by a lighthouse whom she married. As a human-Atlantean hybrid, he can breathe both water and air. He has super-strength and super-endurance which allows him to swim great distances at great speed. But unlike Aquaman, he cannot communicate with sea life.

Aquaman's origin: Aquaman's father discovered the lost secrets of Atlantis. He used them to train/enhance his son. This Aquaman has gills and super-strength. He does not communicate with sea life telepathically until 1970. Initially, he spoke to them in their "own language".

Yes. Unlike in OTL where the Golden Age Batman never met the Silver Age Batman, here every Golden Ager meets their Silver Age counterpart.

Please tell me that Tony Isabella or Christopher Priest is writing that storyline. Please!

I was thinking Dwayne McDuffie, but Priest would be just as good.

In other words, she's All American's version of Starman, or the Just Imagine Stan Lee Superman, as a distaff counterpart.

Power wise, I was imagining the DCAU Wonder Woman. She is a warrior woman that can fly and has super-strength. Instead of an invisible jet, she has aerospace plane. She does not use a magic lasso.

Did All American have any characters it didn't reboot? To me, reinventing everyone is a sign that the company's in trouble.

This essentially mirrors what DC in OTL. The only characters DC didn't reboot were the ones that had continuously published (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, etc.). Until the 1970s, DC created very few new superheroes. ITTL, rebooting characters is the norm. Even Escape, who has most new characters, rebooted a few. The characters I'm showing in these company briefs are the major characters. There are minor/underused characters that will gain popularity as well new characters not yet introduced.

Is Elongated Man's relationship with his wife the same? (Please say yes!)

Yes. Also, "the Nick and Nora Charles" of the AAU do not suffer an "Identity Crisis".

Do the All American characters cross over with characters from other Earths once a year? Is this called a crisis?

Yes, I can't break tradition.

Can we assume that Dr. Midnight has our Guy Gardner's tough guy personality?

Yes, but not the JLI ("One Punch!") tough guy.

Is Hal Jordan a test pilot who was selected for genetic tests?

No. GL/Adam Blake remains the test pilot. Captain America's origin is one I've had the hardest time with. The only consistent thing being that Jordan is a patriotic American enhanced by "vita-rays", but even the "vita-rays" I'm not sure about. Currently I am imagining a mixture of "Torn Curtain" and "The 39 Steps (1935)". So, here is the current origin.

Hal Jordan is an architect visiting West Berlin. He called upon by the US government to help rescue a scientist, Abraham Erskine, in East Berlin. While attempting to rescue Erskine during a costume party, Jordan is wounded during the rescue. Erskine uses his hidden "vita-ray" machine to heal Jordan. Jordan now becomes the perfect human specimen. After destroying the machine and research materials, they escape to West Germany. Upon reaching safety, Erskine is killed by double-agent Henry Kruger who in turn is killed. Jordan decides to dedicate his life to defending US (and her allies) as Captain America.

What can you tell me about these Guardians of the Universe?

To start with they look completely different from OTL Guardians. They are humanoids with orange skin and long white hair. Later issues establish that there are female Guardians. Their leader is called Nestro. Culture wise, they are very similar to Vulcans (logical and unemotional). They are still from the planet Oa.


Nestro, leader of the Guardians of the Universe (Strange Adventures #22)

Does Batman still have his Silver Age redesign? I understand he was given it by the artist behind the Flash to appeal more strongly to Flash fans. In this case, what does the Batmobile look like?

DC will be up next, but Batman retains his Golden Age look. The Batmobile continued its sports car look throughout the 1960s and 1970s. The Batman TV show used a modified Porsche 356. In 1974, it will look similar to the Jaguar XKE.

And finally, what ended the Vietnam War? Were the people of the world simply happier because they had more comics to read?

Kennedy wasn't killed in 1963. So, Johnson doesn't become President and escalate war. Johnson remained Senate Majority Leader. The last advisors/troops leave Vietnam in 1968. Kennedy was reelected in 1964. He was succeeded by George Romney who served two terms.

 

[Brady Kj]

I think that DC rebooting everything except its continuously-published characters is good evidence of my point. They had at least three continuously-published superheroes (not sure about Aquaman and GA), which they didn't think of rebooting because those characters were making money. If they had no superheroes that they wouldn't reboot, it's probably because they didn't have any superheroes they could bankroll on.
However, I'll let it slide because of the rule of cool.

As for Captain America, I think the one you have is weaker than the original. You need something simpler and which gives him his captain status. Hal Jordan was a soldier that a government organization gave powers to, or NATO did, or a fictional international organization, to fight against communist spies. Stick with that.
The supersoldier program exists because in the Cold War spy-culture, the US needs to rely less on armies than on individuals, so they want those individuals to be tougher, almost a one-man army corps. Hal Jordan proves his mettle, so Erskine gives him his powers, and then is kidnapped.
I do like the Berlin setting, and the double-agent killing Erskine when he gets to West Berlin. Nice choice. I would replace the Vita-rays with something that sounds less made-up. Maybe Alpha Rays, or something that was in the news in those days, like Gamma Rays.


1) By the way, since the Human Torch has Animal Man's origin, does Animal Man have B'wana Beast's origin with the purple ape? I'm assuming he doesn't have the awesome animal-merging power.
2) Is it my imagination or does TTL have more female superheroes than OTL?
3) What can you tell me about Jubilee?
4) I notice that Black Canary kind of looks like Invisible Woman, and next to her stand a Human Torch and a stretchy genius. Should I read something into this?
5) What are Nightshade, Thunderbolt, and the Question like?

PS I love how the atom's name is Gene Loring.

 

[Kalvan]

Green Arrow had to evolve beyond "Batman with a bow", because Weisinger was keeping Batman static (1950s version). This Green Arrow is similar to O'Neil/Adams Batman.

In other words, in the early Seventies Ollie is closer to the Finger/Kane (or at least the Sprang/Kane) Bruce, and Early Seventies Bruce is closer to the Pap/Weisinger Ollie!

The Captain America TV show is not camp. It is action with touches of comedy. I would say it is closer to first season of "the Man from UNCLE" with elements of "Get Smart". While his name is Hal Jordan, his personality was closer to the way Van Williams played the Green Hornet.

You do realise that the latter of those two was a spoof like the contemporary Flint series, and the former was rather pushing it at times, don't you?

Snip Sub-Mariner-Aquaman stuff.

In orther words, is Gordon more like Arthur, or more like Orin?

Snip.

Power wise, I was imagining the DCAU Wonder Woman. She is a warrior woman that can fly and has super-strength. Instead of an invisible jet, she has aerospace plane. She does not use a magic lasso.

I was thinking more origin and characterization than powers. But there are many possible sources in comic books for the same type of power. Compare the origins of Ed O'Brien Ralph Dibney, and Reed Richards, and then remember that they have the same powerset.

For that matter, compare Kara Zor-el, Barda, Diana of Thymescria, and Mary Batson's respective origins, and their powersets, then take into account that they are all from the same company!

This essentially mirrors what DC in OTL. The only characters DC didn't reboot were the ones that had continuously published (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, etc.). Until the 1970s, DC created very few new superheroes. ITTL, rebooting characters is the norm.

Depending upon whether you believe that the Silver Age began with Martian Manhunter or Barry Allen, the all new superheroes created by DC included:

Martian Manhunter (one of the possible harbingers of the Silver Age!)

The Doom Patrol

The Metal Men

Animal Man

Robbie Reed (Dial "H" for Hero)

Deadman (Okay, he's pushing it, but still, they managed to team him up in-continuity with Batman, twice!)

Thorn (Okay, she's MPD, and arguably more of an antihero like the Helena Bertinelli Huntress, but she was still portrayed positively at the time despite being a product of the Silver Age.)

The Creeper (Okay, he's a tad late, but he was published just before Weisinger retired and Kirby returned, and he's the only Gothan native superhero whose origin has nothing to do directly with either the Ted Grant Wildcat or Batman.)

Okay, that's two teams and five solo heroes. Not too shabby, even if only Reed got his own solo book.

 

[Brady Kj]

Kalvan, your point is valid. However, I'm not sure if most of these characters were successful until they were revamped at later times, and Thorn is a rebooted Green Lantern villain.
I'm getting a feeling that one of the several themes of this timeline is that a somewhat weakened Superman and Batman are helping other characters get a bigger piece of the spotlight. Batman's static and stagnant, Green Arrow is getting Batman's writers, Superman's less used because DC have to share the money from him (but his creators are getting what they deserve), and Aquaman's leading the legion of superheroes because he's the most famous guy on the team while Supes and Bats are on a team with the freaking Freedom Fighters. It's awesome.


Question 6) Will Batman someday become anything like the liberal 70s Green Arrow?

 

[neamathla]

In other words, in the early Seventies Ollie is closer to the Finger/Kane (or at least the Sprang/Kane) Bruce, and Early Seventies Bruce is closer to the Pap/Weisinger Ollie!

Exactly.

You do realise that the latter of those two was a spoof like the contemporary Flint series, and the former was rather pushing it at times, don't you?

The Man from UNCLE was totally screwed over by its producer during the color episodes. He read in the newspaper that the show was supposed to camp, so he made it into camp. That's why most UNCLE fans I know, prefer the b&w episodes. Maybe a better analogy might be the Stephen J. Cannell's the A-Team and Baa Baa Black Sheep (lighthearted action-adventure shows). What is really comes down to, is that public doesn't think of Captain America or Batman as joke. If and when their movies get made, there is not a problem of the public taking them seriously.

Snip Sub-Mariner-Aquaman stuff.

In orther words, is Gordon more like Arthur, or more like Orin?

Definitely Arthur.

I was thinking more origin and characterization than powers. But there are many possible sources in comic books for the same type of power. Compare the origins of Ed O'Bannon, Ralph Dibney, and Reed Richards, and then remember that they have the same powerset.

For that matter, compare Kara Zor-el, Barda, Diana of Thymescria, and Mary Batson's respective origins, and their powersets, then take into account that they are all from the same company!

Sorry, I misunderstood. Your supposition is correct.

Depending upon whether you believe that the Silver Age began with Martian Manhunter or Barry Allen, the all new superheroes created by DC included:

Snip.

I'm the "Flash started the Silver Age" camp. Pre-Flash, Martian Manhunter struck me as just another variant on the "Blank" detective (Roy Raymond, TV detective; Captain Compass, nautical detective; Mysto, Magician Detective; etc.). J'onn was the alien detective, but I digress. And I will admit I forgot about Robbie Reed.

I don't want to imply that new minor characters don't exist ITTL. During the Silver Age, I would only consider the Doom Patrol, Metal Men, Robbie Reed, and Martian Manhunter as major characters. But I take your point.

Question 6) Will Batman someday become anything like the liberal 70s Green Arrow?

No. Green Arrow underwent the change, because at the time he was a major character who didn't have another writer attached to him. ITTL, he does have his own series, one of the characters that fits that criteria ITTL is Sandman. So I am using him as the GA stand-in.

 

[Brady Kj]

Ah. Every time I think I catch on to what you're doing, you turn around and prove you're doing something smarter.
I like how you've simplified the names. Instead of the cumbersome "Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt" or "John Jones Manhunter From Mars" that you see when reading old comics, you cut it down to "Thunderbolt" as it rightfully ought to be, and "X-Man" a name that essentially says "I am being published in a time when superhero comics sell".
"Manhunter from Mars" definitely sounds like a variation of "Martian detective".

 

[Kalvan]

Well, I've just posted a tangental thread to this one in Alien Space Bats asking everyone which company (of those revealed so far) they would most like to work with.

This notice can also serve to bump this thread.

 

[Brady Kj]

How did you decide how to split Marvel characters between Escape and Mighty, and sometimes merge characters together? Did you just guess who came up with what idea? Also, will we see Mr. Miracle and Big Barda? Those characters strike me as being extremely Jack Kirby.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

AFAIK Kirby did Fourth World after Marvel stopped his plan for Thor (which would have been similiar).

 

[neamathla]

DC Comics (circa 1974)


DC superheroes

The parent company of DC is Cadence Industries, previously known as the Perfect Film & Chemical Corporation. Despite the flat sales at the time of purchase, DC was the largest of the comic companies. Conflict between DC's old guard and the new management lead to the injection of the "New Blood". These new writers and artists began to refurbish the brand. Superman and Batman undertook a back to basics regimen. The Marvel family was brought back. Together with additional changes, sales began to climb. Soon, interest in these characters was revived. Also, DC undertook improving its non-superhero titles. However, some genre titles were already beyond saving. After observing the success that All-American and Escape were having with their magazine lines, DC decided to follow suit. The new titles are Tales of the Unexpected, a fantasy/sci-fi anthology; Strange Adventures, Stories about Tarzan, John Carter, and the other Burroughs properties; and Double Action, a catchall anthology.

The most important of DC's many superteams is the Legion of Superheroes. Initially, the team consisted of Aquaman, Green Arrow, Johnny Quick, Liberty Belle, Robotman, Starman, and X-Man. As more superheroes were introduced, they were inducted into the Legion. The new Legionnaires were Aquagirl, Bulletgirl, Bulletman, Dr. Fate, Hourman, Invisible Hood, Jericho, Metamorpho, and Sandman. Once Weisinger was fired, the previous-banned Superman and Batman were allowed to join the Legion. Their previous team, the Crusaders, has begun to fade into the background. DC's third major team is the Young Titans. The original team consisted of Batgirl, Joanie Swift, Robin, Speedy, and Supergirl. The current team is Beast Boy, Insect Queen, Raven, Speedy, and Starfire. DC also publishes group titles (Superman family, Batman family, and Marvel family).

 

[Kalvan]

Well, It's not quite the sausage-fest I was fearing with Wonder Woman and Black Canary at All American, but it seems like with the exception of Raven, Incect Queen, and the Kathy Kane Batwoman (and assuming she still exists ITTL, the Bonnie King Queen Arrow/Arrowette) they are all either one half of a super-couple, or teen sidekicks. (And technically, Mary Marvel is both)!

Why did most of the original members of the Young Titans quit?

What happened to the Metal Men?

It's too bad you put Robbie Reed in DC rather than All American. He would have been perfect to have been another agent of the Guardians, or the hero dialer could have been originally made by the Guardians, or else one of their enemies. It would have made for some great headaches for Mr. Blake in team-ups, tie-in issues, or miniseries.

Besides, in the thread I linked to in my last post... well, it's going to complicate things for my post, as I had had big plans for another nerdy kid who accidently gets his hands on wierd alien technology...

Anyway, on to the individual questions:

Hourman:
1: Does Rex Taylor still get his powers from a pill?
2: And if so, have there been any storylines yet about developing a tolerance and/or other possible side effects?

Superman:
1: Which does Supes himself consider his true identity, Kal-El or Clark Kent?
2: As of 1974, is Weisinger still writing or editing? Is rainbow kryptonite a constant risk for Supes, or has that been put away?
3: Is Lex Luthor still the Golden Age Dillinger-style bank robber/safe cracker, or has he graduated to power suits, special serums, and kryptonite ray-guns?
4: I realise that Darkseid et-al and Mongul, being Kirby creations, aren't going to be menacing him except in a hypothetical joint crossover with Escape, but have any other of his rogues gallery stepped it up (other than possibly Lex) in their absence?

Aquagirl:
1: Is Mera Atlantean royalty, or is her backstory even more exotic?

Batman:
1: A back-to-basics Bats was what Denny O'Neill had been trying for OTL in the early 70s. Since Ollie has gone grittier early instead of a social conscience, how do they avoid reversing the comparison this time? Or do they?
2: Anyone new or substantially revamped in his rogues gallery at this point compared to OTL?
3: What happened to Barbara Gordon?

Green Arrow:
1: Has Ollie met Brick, Duke of Oil, or Bullseye the Clown yet? Has he even met Merlyn?
2: Are he and Speedy still on good terms?

Liberty Belle:
1: Is Libby Lawrence married to Johnny Chambers?

Plastic Man:
1: Was Eel ever in the Legion or Freedom Fighters?
2: Is he played as the straight man in an off-the-wall world, or as an off-the-wall guy who beats straightlaced badguys through humorous use of his power?

X-Man:
1: By the Bronze Age, is J'onn the last Green Martian left, or might he possibly have this cute niece named M'gan we may eventually see sometime in the '00s?

Kid Eternity:
1: His OTL backstory is contingent upon events in the Fourth Millenium. Has it been revamped to be more like Booster Gold minus the glory hound parts?

Beast Boy:
1: Does Garfield still have his OTL Comic origin, or the midified Young Justice cartoon origin?
2: Was there ever a Doom Patrol in this DCU? I see Robotman and what look like versions of Negative Man and Mento.

Insect Queen:
1: With Mal Duncan over at All American, Does Karen have a love intrest in this timeline, and if so, who?

Jericho:
1: Does David Jackson have Joe Wilson's powerset, or is he simply Black Lightning by any other name, as his costume seems to suggest?

Raven:
1: Her "Costume" seems to be nothing more than a private school uniform. Is she an "out" superhero with no seperate civillian ID like the Fantastic Four or Plastic Man?
2: Does Lilith Clay still have an archfiend for a deadbeat dad and a rabbi for a sternly ashamed maternal grandfather like Rachel Ross? (I.E. Was Clay originaly Klayman the way Ross was originally Rosenthal)?

Starfire:
1: Is Lenard Kover a Soviet exchage student exposed to a radioactive meteor, or the long lost crown prince of Tammaran hiding out from the Gordonians?

Supergirl:
1: Is Linda Danvers Kara Zor-El, or is she the Peter David version?

Marvel Family:
1: Did Freddy or Mary spend any time in the Titans?
2: Did Supes ever think that The Big Red Cheese and friends were fellow Kryptonians? Have Supes or Supergirl even met them yet?
3: Have Starro and Mister Mind yet met and compared notes?
4: Is Tawky Tawny still tawky, or for that matter, tawny?

 

[Brady Kj]

3: What happened to Barbara Gordon?

Ooh! Ooh! I know this one!
OTL's Barbara Gordon was created in the Batman TV show that was funded by Hugh Hefner. ITTL, that was a Captain America TV show, so no Babs.

Kid Eternity:
1: His OTL backstory is contingent upon events in the Fourth Millenium. Has it been revamped to be more like Booster Gold minus the glory hound parts?

Kid Eternity's not from the future. He's a ghost who makes people from history appear. If there's a retcon about him that involves the future, I wouldn't expect it to exist ITTL as well.


7) Do you intend on answering more of my previous questions? It's okay if you don't; just let me know.

 

[Kalvan]

Kid Eternity's not from the future. He's a ghost who makes people from history appear. If there's a retcon about him that involves the future, I wouldn't expect it to exist ITTL as well.[/QOUTE]

I could have sworn he was in the OTL Legion of Superheroes.

 

[Brady Kj]

Nope. You're thinking of some other Kid character. He was a Quality character that DC didn't use until the 70s, and when they used him they put him on the Fawcett Earth, and made him Cap. Jr's dead brother. I have his first DC comic. It's not bad. Later on, I understand they made him a Vertigo character and it was popular.

 

[neamathla]

7) Do you intend on answering more of my previous questions? It's okay if you don't; just let me know.

Right now I am in location where the internet service is a little spotty, but I plan to post replies soon.

 

[Brady Kj]

Cool. Thanks.

 

[neamathla]

Somehow, I forgot to post these answers.

I think that DC rebooting everything except its continuously-published characters is good evidence of my point. They had at least three continuously-published superheroes (not sure about Aquaman and GA), which they didn't think of rebooting because those characters were making money. If they had no superheroes that they wouldn't reboot, it's probably because they didn't have any superheroes they could bankroll on.
However, I'll let it slide because of the rule of cool.

My thought process on why TTL companies reboot characters instead of creating new ones. Every company knows Siegel & Schuster won their lawsuit, but not why. In response, they lock up the characters rights to prevent lawsuits. When the superhero genre returns, the companies bring back what they own first. They ensure any additional characters belong them as "works for hire".

As for Captain America, I think the one you have is weaker than the original. You need something simpler and which gives him his captain status. Hal Jordan was a soldier that a government organization gave powers to, or NATO did, or a fictional international organization, to fight against communist spies. Stick with that.
The supersoldier program exists because in the Cold War spy-culture, the US needs to rely less on armies than on individuals, so they want those individuals to be tougher, almost a one-man army corps. Hal Jordan proves his mettle, so Erskine gives him his powers, and then is kidnapped.
I do like the Berlin setting, and the double-agent killing Erskine when he gets to West Berlin. Nice choice. I would replace the Vita-rays with something that sounds less made-up. Maybe Alpha Rays, or something that was in the news in those days, like Gamma Rays.

For me, the problem with Cap is the original origin hits all the right notes. Of course, finding the right origin for a character is tough. It is one of reasons I keep them out of the timeline. As for Vita-rays, I borrowed that straight from Lee-Kirby's revised origin. It was just my little shout out to them. I had Cap working for CHESS (Central Headquarters for Emergency Strategic Services). This organization was also used for the TV show.

Let's try this origin revision. Hal Jordan works for an unnamed secret US agency. While on assignment, he meets and impresses Erskine. He volunteers for Erskine's super-soldier program. Everything goes well. Shortly thereafter, Erskine is kidnapped. Using the codename "Captain America", he rescues Erskine. Upon their return to West Germany, Erskine is killed.

1) By the way, since the Human Torch has Animal Man's origin, does Animal Man have B'wana Beast's origin with the purple ape? I'm assuming he doesn't have the awesome animal-merging power.

No. He received his powers from a mysterious African man while he was with the Peace Corps. His powers are the same as IOTL. Yes, I do know who the mysterious man is and why he gave Mike his powers.

2) Is it my imagination or does TTL have more female superheroes than OTL?

It is about the same, but ITTL they are more visible.

3) What can you tell me about Jubilee?

She is a sorceress like Zatanna without the need to speak backwards. The jewel on her cape helps her focus, but she can cast spells without it. Originally, the character started out as Sargona (Sargon's daughter), but I wasn't happy with the concept. So, I decided to totally revise the character.

4) I notice that Black Canary kind of looks like Invisible Woman, and next to her stand a Human Torch and a stretchy genius. Should I read something into this?

There was no hidden intention there.

5) What are Nightshade, Thunderbolt, and the Question like?

Nightshade and the Question are the same as OTL, Ditko just created them for Charlton a little than OTL. The Thunderbolt is the same as "Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt", only with a different costume.

PS I love how the atom's name is Gene Loring.

Thanks. I was afraid that I might have been a bit much.

 

[neamathla]

Well, It's not quite the sausage-fest I was fearing with Wonder Woman and Black Canary at All American, but it seems like with the exception of Raven, Incect Queen, and the Kathy Kane Batwoman (and assuming she still exists ITTL, the Bonnie King Queen Arrow/Arrowette) they are all either one half of a super-couple, or teen sidekicks. (And technically, Mary Marvel is both)!

DC's policy was in the 50's/60's was if it worked, repeat it. So, when Batwoman/Batgirl was success, DC introduced Supergirl, Aquagirl, Queen Arrow, and Miss Arrowette. Supergirl was a hit right off the bat. Aquagirl took a while, but eventually took off. Queen Arrow was a complete failure. Miss Arrowette had a trio of appearances, but never caught on.

Why did most of the original members of the Young Titans quit?

In 1971, after they failed to prevent the accidental death of a peace activist, the team disbanded. When the villainous Gargoyle returned, Speedy was forced to form a new team. This is the current team (Beast Boy, Insect Queen, Raven, Speedy, and Starfire).

What happened to the Metal Men?

They were part of All-American's roster. However, ITTL they didn't catch on. By the mid-70s, they were basically forgotten. TTL's Metal Men were slightly different. They were still based on the metals of antiquity, but the team consisted Gold, Silver (OTL's Platinum), Copper (similar to OTL's Nameness), Iron, Mercury, Tin and Lead.

It's too bad you put Robbie Reed in DC rather than All American. He would have been perfect to have been another agent of the Guardians, or the hero dialer could have been originally made by the Guardians, or else one of their enemies. It would have made for some great headaches for Mr. Blake in team-ups, tie-in issues, or miniseries.

Besides, in the thread I linked to in my last post... well, it's going to complicate things for my post, as I had had big plans for another nerdy kid who accidently gets his hands on wierd alien technology...

There is something coming up in the next part of the Bronze Age that I think you will be able to use for Robbie Reed.

Hourman:
1: Does Rex Taylor still get his powers from a pill?
2: And if so, have there been any storylines yet about developing a tolerance and/or other possible side effects?

1. No. He still uses the Miraclo Ray.
2. No, but you can bet someone during the Iron Age will.

Superman:
1: Which does Supes himself consider his true identity, Kal-El or Clark Kent?
2: As of 1974, is Weisinger still writing or editing? Is rainbow kryptonite a constant risk for Supes, or has that been put away?
3: Is Lex Luthor still the Golden Age Dillinger-style bank robber/safe cracker, or has he graduated to power suits, special serums, and kryptonite ray-guns?
4: I realise that Darkseid et-al and Mongul, being Kirby creations, aren't going to be menacing him except in a hypothetical joint crossover with Escape, but have any other of his rogues gallery stepped it up (other than possibly Lex) in their absence?

1. I hope I explain this well. Until he assumed the Superboy identity, what we think as "Superman" was Clark. Once Clark became "Superboy", a new "Clark" was created. To paraphrase Tom Mankiewicz on Christopher Reeve in Superman, "he is always playing Superman, but when he is Clark, it is Superman playing Clark Kent".
2. When DC's new management instituted the New Trend in 1969, Weisinger was the first to fired. For the Bronze Age, Green K is the only kryptonite.
3. Lex is now the brilliant scientist. He wears the 1970s purple/green suit, not the 1980s power suit.
4. The heavy hitters are Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Ultraa. Ultraa is not the Ultra-Humanite, the Earth-Prime character Ultraa, or the Earth-3 Ultraman. He is new character created by Elliot S! Maggin. In his first appearance, he was called the Master.

Aquagirl:
1: Is Mera Atlantean royalty, or is her backstory even more exotic?

1. Same backstory as in OTL. She is royalty from another dimension.

Batman:
1: A back-to-basics Bats was what Denny O'Neill had been trying for OTL in the early 70s. Since Ollie has gone grittier early instead of a social conscience, how do they avoid reversing the comparison this time? Or do they?
2: Anyone new or substantially revamped in his rogues gallery at this point compared to OTL?
3: What happened to Barbara Gordon?

Green Arrow:
1: Has Ollie met Brick, Duke of Oil, or Bullseye the Clown yet? Has he even met Merlyn?
2: Are he and Speedy still on good terms?

1. Bullseye is known as Crackshot in TTL, but otherwise the same. Merlyn is unchanged. We have not reached the time periods when Duke of Oil and Brick were created, so I have not made a decision on their creation.
2. GA and Speedy are on very good terms, much like Batman/Robin relationship of the 1960s/1970s.

Liberty Belle:
1: Is Libby Lawrence married to Johnny Chambers?

1. No, she is involved with Green Arrow (ala Black Canary).

Plastic Man:
1: Was Eel ever in the Legion or Freedom Fighters?
2: Is he played as the straight man in an off-the-wall world, or as an off-the-wall guy who beats straightlaced badguys through humorous use of his power?

1. As of the mid-1970s, Plas has only been a member of the Crusaders.
2. He is the humorous character in a crazy world.

X-Man:
1: By the Bronze Age, is J'onn the last Green Martian left, or might he possibly have this cute niece named M'gan we may eventually see sometime in the '00s?

1. Initially he wasn't. J'onn returned to Mars in the late 1960's to find his fellow Martians had vanished without a trace. So, he believes that he is the last Martian.

Kid Eternity:
1: His OTL backstory is contingent upon events in the Fourth Millenium. Has it been revamped to be more like Booster Gold minus the glory hound parts?

1. I believe this has been sorted out.

Beast Boy:
1: Does Garfield still have his OTL Comic origin, or the midified Young Justice cartoon origin?
2: Was there ever a Doom Patrol in this DCU? I see Robotman and what look like versions of Negative Man and Mento.

1. I am using the Gar's original origin.
2. No. This Robotman is Robert Grayson. Neither Negative Man nor Mento exist ITTL.

Insect Queen:
1: With Mal Duncan over at All American, Does Karen have a love intrest in this timeline, and if so, who?

1. Her love interest is Ben Jackson, the brother of Jericho. In the near future, he will assume the identity of Blackstar.

Jericho:
1: Does David Jackson have Joe Wilson's powerset, or is he simply Black Lightning by any other name, as his costume seems to suggest?

1. Initially, he was gadgeteer hero. Later, he began weld electricity via his costume. At this point, Jericho is still wearing a white full body uniform. Around 1971, the writers dropped his gadgets and instilled him electrical powers. So, think 1950s Batman evolving into Black Lightning.

Raven:
1: Her "Costume" seems to be nothing more than a private school uniform. Is she an "out" superhero with no seperate civillian ID like the Fantastic Four or Plastic Man?
2: Does Lilith Clay still have an archfiend for a deadbeat dad and a rabbi for a sternly ashamed maternal grandfather like Rachel Ross? (I.E. Was Clay originaly Klayman the way Ross was originally Rosenthal)?

1. She had a costume identity, but it was dropped when DC initiated the New Trend.
2. No. She is from an extended loving family who are located in the southeastern United States. Her main archfiend is called the Changeling who claims that to be a supernatural being. In reality, she is not.

Starfire:
1: Is Lenard Kover a Soviet exchage student exposed to a radioactive meteor, or the long lost crown prince of Tammaran hiding out from the Gordonians?

1. He is an American of Russian decent. This was played up in stories during US-Soviet detente of the early 1970s. I had planned to go with his original origin, but I already have an exploding spacecraft at another company. So, the radioactive meteor will work.

Supergirl:
1: Is Linda Danvers Kara Zor-El, or is she the Peter David version?

1. She is definitely the Pre-Crisis Supergirl, only better written. She will not go through the multiple jobs that she did in OTL.

Marvel Family:
1: Did Freddy or Mary spend any time in the Titans?
2: Did Supes ever think that The Big Red Cheese and friends were fellow Kryptonians? Have Supes or Supergirl even met them yet?
3: Have Starro and Mister Mind yet met and compared notes?
4: Is Tawky Tawny still tawky, or for that matter, tawny?

1. As the Marvels did not get revived until 1970, they have only made a couple guest spots.
2. No. Yes, they have teamed up in the pages of World Finest's.
3. Not yet.
4. Yes.

I have been remiss in my not crediting some the microheroes I have been using. I guess I have selected about 150 microheroes for display. Only about quarter were done by me. Most of the preexisting characters I got from DC Microheroes Wiki, Marvel Microheroes Wiki, Microheroes Compendium Blog, and Golden Age Heroes and Zeroes. In some cases where I couldn't come up with a design, I borrowed them from Omniverse Chronicles. For the most part, none of costume are set in stone. Design advice is always welcomed.