Across the high frontier: a Big Gemini space TL

Movie 2010 will happen
The moment Clarke publish the Novel in 1982, MGM buy the rights for Movie, but Kubrick had no interest in directing it.
in time Hyams use Internet and E-mail to contact Clarke in Sri Lanka about right to direct it.

but who would make 2010 here ?
James Cameron makes his debut Movie The Terminator (original planned was O.J Simpson as Terminator and Arnold Schwarzenegger as the Hero)
Ridley Scott and john Boorman or David Lynch would be a consideration, if they get proposal in around 1982
Irony: Scott would make DUNE while David Lynch would do 2010, Kubrik had admiration for Lynch work and debut Eraserhead

By the way
who to hell are the kardahians ? ? ?
 
I do love the rambling nature of this story Archibald - I've lost track of the number of times I've gone off to look into the topics you've raised in more detail. Please keep going.
 

Archibald

Banned
In "the lost worlds of 2001" and introduction to "2010" novel Clarke explains how he was pressed by millions of fans to write a sequel. 2010 might be very different ITTL.

As for the rambling thing - space is so vast, there a re a lot of different ways to get there. I don't do things half-hearted :p
 
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Détente in space (1) - Big Gemini - Soyuz

Archibald

Banned
October 1977

Bean, Evans and Lousma eyed the incoming Soyuz.

"The reds are coming" Lousma said.

"Houston, this is Mankind, hum, the Soviets have jettisoned their Soyuz, hijacked our ship and are now asking for political asylum. Waiting your instructions." Alan Bean laughed loud. "Imagine their faces in Mission Control."

The hatch opened. Anotoli Filipchenko head appeared; as he warmly shaked hand of the soviet commander, Evans had a brief glance within Soyuz 22 cramped orbital module. Early on there had been talks about repeating Apollo-Soyuz, or to bring Salyut back into the bargaining. When both proved impossible, and with Big Gemini maturing quite well, the Soyuz-Helios solution become a natural winner.

So a large pressurised module had been handpicked on McDonnell Douglas production line, and half of it outfitted as a makeshift American laboratory of obvious Skylab and Enterprise heritage. There was a strong European participation, notably from Germany – it was a consolation prize after the sortie lab had been withdrawn in favor of the Agena Space Tug.

Then the Helios cargo module had been shiped to the Soviet Union; at a plant near Moscow the module had been given a Salyut treatment, and then, once ready, it had been shipped back to the United States and mated to both the crew module and to the Titan that would carry the whole thing into orbit.

By contrast with that messy, two years process the docking and crew entry had been a rather straightforward affair. It had been much simple than the previous joint flight, since, rather ironically, the American side had now an atmosphere similar to the Soyuz. Or Salyut, by the way. What a mission that would have been - had Helios docked to a soviet space station. But NASA had missed again a rendezvous with the Soviet station.

The Soviets had given the same reasons they had given five years earlier. That Salyut was still not ready was hard to believe. Whatever the reasons, Big Gemini had been more than a backup to the lost station: the pressurised module by itself was nearly as big as a Salyut. The cargo section had been outfitted as a so-called International Space Platform, and filled with Skylab and Salyut experiments. Over the course of the mission, 72 scientific experiments were carried out, spanning the fields of atmospheric and plasma physics, astronomy, solar physics, material sciences, technology, astrobiology and Earth observations. The mission would be twice as long as the first shot, and the crews even exchanged positions within their respective cockpits - although only in orbit, of course. The time had not come yet for a true crew exchange, where astronauts would come down in Kazakhstan and cosmonauts at the Cape. The defection of Viktor Belenko to Japan aboard its MiG-25 had evidently made both sides nervous.

Nikolai Rukavishnikov joined the party. The atmosphere was cordial, the five men shared their meals: tubes of bortsch filled with bortsch, tubes of bortsch labelled vodka which contained bortsch, and, unknown to the ground, tubes of bortsch that contained vodka - unlike Apollo-Soyuz, this time the vodka was for real.

The next day the ground awoke them with the Beach Boys hit Wouldn't it be nice and, as result, all day long Bean couldn't got the damn song out of his head.

They posed for a memorable photo. Bean sat ackwardly in the Soyuz cockpit, running into the walls every time he moved a finger. He couldn't believe the Soviet didn't have, somewhere, a roomier and more advanced ship. There was not much room for cargo, for food and clothes and water and other goodies that made a station a liveable place. Whether or not the Soviets were developing an Agena or a Big Gemini remained an unsolved mystery. Even Soyuz toilet didn't stood a chance against Helios bathroom, a welcome change from those horrible bags they used in Apollo... well worth seven years in bathroom hell, Bean though. During his lunar flight, he had prefered a massive dose of imodium, so huge he had not shit for the whole trip. Now he happily noticed how the Soviet crew settled for the American toilet rather than their own Soyuz gear. Shitting in the same orbital poo-hole; long live detente. He smiled.

Down on planet Earth Glushko monitored the mission progress. He had not realized it before, but it actually was a boost for his own plans. Big Gemini had made the Soyuz look pathetic, and that would help the TKS, which by pure coincidence was very similar to the American manned ship.
 
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Question on Titan that launch the Helios, is that's Titan IIIM ?
It would make a sense, if the former MOL launcher is completed for Helios.
but it would give interesting variant for NASA the Titan IIIF
Now the TIIIF is unmanned version of TIIIM missing subsystem needed for manned flight,
it had to use various upper stage Agena, Centaur, sold rocket moors
but the biggest advance is the Titan IIIF Centaur (aka Titan IIID7) bring 7200 kg to escape speed !
Means more payload for Viking and Voyager probes to carry !
 

Archibald

Banned
When I started writting this TL I realized that in 1974-75 Salyut 4 and Skylab both were in orbit 50 degree inclined over the equator. Well, their ITTL successors - Liberty and MKBS - will be on the same, similar orbit, making transfers quite easily.
It is an amazing situation, kind of Berlin-in-space - West Berlin and East Berlin facing each other with the wall between the two.
Now in 1976 Viktor Belenko stole a MiG-25 and flew out to Japan, where his plane was dismantled and thoroughly examinated, while the Soviet pilot become a refugee in the U.S.A.
The year before, Vasily Sabline sailed its warship in the direction of Sweden, but there he was intercepted and shot down. This story inspired Tom Clancy Hunt for Red October.

Now imagine that a Soyuz crew pull a Belenko or a Sabline and fly their Soyuz from MKBS to Liberty, requesting political asylum. Well, it is an idea that I will explore ITTL - either in fiction - or for real ! Stay tunned !
 

Archibald

Banned
As for the Titan III: there has been a hotly debate between the Air Force and NASA. The former pushed for the 7-seg SRM (developped for the MOL) while NASA wanted the 5-seg SRM as on the Titan IIIE that launched Voyager, Viking and Helios. In the end the Air Force won the debate and the Titan flew with 7-seg - although that decision multiply STS-51L like failures. Wait for the mid-80's ITTL and you will see !
 
Now imagine that a Soyuz crew pull a Belenko or a Sabline and fly their Soyuz from MKBS to Liberty, requesting political asylum. Well, it is an idea that I will explore ITTL - either in fiction - or for real ! Stay tunned !
They may be at the same inclination, but are they in the same plane? I doubt it, and I doubt there's enough delta-v to switch planes.

"Imagine their figures in Mission Control."
faces
'figure' means body shape, not face, in English. Un 'faux ami', si tu veux. (Even if the etymology is the same.)
 
They may be at the same inclination, but are they in the same plane? I doubt it, and I doubt there's enough delta-v to switch planes.

the Skylab was on 434 by 441.9 km high orbit, also for Liberty.
MKBS would be 400 to 450 km high Orbit. so is some one want to defect, just wait on right moment were both station are close by and cross over to the US or USSR station...

As for the Titan III: there has been a hotly debate between the Air Force and NASA. The former pushed for the 7-seg SRM (developped for the MOL) while NASA wanted the 5-seg SRM as on the Titan IIIE that launched Voyager, Viking and Helios. In the end the Air Force won the debate and the Titan flew with 7-seg - although that decision multiply STS-51L like failures. Wait for the mid-80's ITTL and you will see !

Fact is that TIIIE came after NASA lost the Titan IIIF in 1968
Now of 7 seg against 5 seg, the UA105 and UA1207 had very low failure rate
 
the Skylab was on 434 by 441.9 km high orbit, also for Liberty.
MKBS would be 400 to 450 km high Orbit. so is some one want to defect, just wait on right moment were both station are close by and cross over to the US or USSR station...
OK, the orbital apogee and perigee are similar - but the planes which those orbital circles are in, are they the same? I doubt it. If in a given orbit the US craft's northern limit is over Russia while the Russian one is over Canada, the delta-v requirement to change planes would be probably on the order of that required for an escape burn (~40% of orbital velocity). Worst case, the delta-v might be twice that, I think.
 

Archibald

Banned
There was a great book "Star crossed banners" by James Oberg which explained that they had deliberatery made ISS and Mir orbits incompatible so that the Russians didn't tried to move Mir modules to the ISS or worse, using old Mir as the nucleus of ISS. Both stations were on a 51.6 degree orbit, but there are indeed other factors that can make transfers very costly.

I think that issue can be solved, notably with a powerful space tug like the Agena - and the Soviet briz-M. Imagine two large space stations sperarated by a hundred miles. Berlin in space, I tell you !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_T-15
In 1986 Soyut T-15 flew from Mir to Salyut 7 and back.

Figures replaced by faces

OTL after Apollo - Soyuz there were plans to dock a shuttle with Salyut 6, around 1978 or later. IT was a serious project, but détente ended in 1978 and it fell by the way side. ITTL Big Gemini is ready much earlier than the shuttle (1975-76) so a repeat of ASTP can be done. It is a little easier since Big Gemini has an atmosphere similar to Soyuz (air and not pure oxygen) so need for complex prebreathing sas between the two vehicles.
 
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George Low

Archibald

Banned
And now a little entry about the space program influencing politics...

December 1977

George Low had been a loyal NASA deputy administrator to Paine, during Fletcher brief stint, and ultimately to James Beggs. Now it was time to leave, to return to Rensselaer, the technical institute that had given him so much in his youth, before the NASA days.

He and Beggs were leaving on a triumphant note - the success of the second joint-flight with the Soviets.

They were not the only to leave the sapce arena.

That day George Low paid a last visit to Olin "Tiger" Teague, a staunch supporter of the space program whose fast declining health was cuting into his political career.

Thirty years before Teague had fought in WWII, from Overlord Utah beach to the Siegfried line were he had ran out of luck - some shrapnel had literally blown his ankle, and he had been shot, and barely survived. Teague famously saif about his landing in Utah " I saw piles of dead bodies and wondered how such things happened. I felt it was the fault of government, so I would embrace a political career."

And now the old battle wounds had awoken, forcing Tiger Teague into retirement. A WWII highly decorated hero, Teague had fought teeth and nails for the veterans rights. And, incidentally, for NASA: he had been one of those congressman – generously - holding the purse of the space agency budget. That, and the fact that Texas was a key state benefitting a lot from the space program.

That time was gone, however, and Teague now focused on his succession, about who would succeed him as Texas 6th district representative in the House.

The battle promised to be epic. On the Democratic side only were three candidates. There was some TV anchor, Ron Godbey, facing two favourites of Teague - Chet Edwards and Phil Gramm.

Two years before Godbey had seriously challenged Teague, and now others concerns had arosed. Olin Teague had made Gramm his logical successor... until Gramm proved to be an asshole that tried to backstab him, pushing him by the wayside. And by the way, Gramm looked more and more like a Republican lost on the Democratic side. He's speaking like Reagan, damn him. Deregulation all day long.

Ultimately Teague affect went to a young student of Gramm himself, Chet Edwards. The strategy ultimately worked, although by an extremely thin margin. Edwards bet Gramm only a mere 80 votes, and ultimately won the runoff against Godbey... and he was only twenty-six !

Low made sure Teague thoroughly briefed his successor over the necessity of a healthy, well-funded space program.

Low has been invited to the party celebrating Chet Edwards victory. Teague and Low shared a drink, and Teague noted "That was a razor thin margin for Chet. Who knows, if I had funded a different manned space program , here in Texas, maybe that Phil Gram could have won that election. How about that, George. The space program changing the face of politics. It says here !”

http://www.historyforsale.com/olin-e-teague-photograph-signed/dc315689

315689.jpg


Olin "Tiger" Teague.

Post scriptum: just browse "Phil Gramm" on Google and see by yourself how much damage he has done. America (and the world) would be better place if he had not been elected, ever.
 
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OK, the orbital apogee and perigee are similar - but the planes which those orbital circles are in, are they the same? I doubt it. If in a given orbit the US craft's northern limit is over Russia while the Russian one is over Canada, the delta-v requirement to change planes would be probably on the order of that required for an escape burn (~40% of orbital velocity). Worst case, the delta-v might be twice that, I think.

let's look on example
Soyuz T-15 mission from 1986
The mission goals, activated Mir core module und stay 3 months, then fly to Salyut 7 space station stay 50 days there
Terminate several running experiments dismantling 20 instruments like a spectrometer and fly them to Mir and install them there

the first transfer flight took 29 hours to reach Salyut 7 that was 2500 km away from Mir core module
the second transfer flight took also 29 hours
 
Lockheed X-27 (1)

Archibald

Banned
...Back in '72 the X-27 was rumoured to be Lockheed CL-1200, a much uprated F-104 Starfighter. Johnson wanted to build a pair of experimental aircrafts (hence the X-plane) and then sell its machine as a lightweight fighter to complement the F-15.

But the next year, in 1973 Lockheed dropped the scheme and the CL-1200, to concentrate on their Agena space tug bid. Thus the X-27 slot was not attributed to this project.

(the X-27 that never was)
X27.jpg


Instead the X-27 moniker was given to the Subscale Shuttle Program (SSP). It was an atempt at salvaging something valuable out of the Space Shuttle fiasco. Over the last five years the X-27 program proceded as follow.

First was the X-27A - Vehicle 101 flown in 1974 as an unpowered glider. It was first dropped from an helicopter and later on by NASA NB-52A.

X-27B are piloted vehicles 102 and 103. They are powered by the plain old XLR-11 rocket engine that reach as far back as the Bell X-1 of 1946. The XLR-11 also powered all three lifting bodies, and was used for early flights of the X-15. The piloted X-27Bs are 9 meter long with a span of 6 meters and a weight of 20 000 pounds. Top speed is around mach 2. Much like the X-planes that preceded them the subscale shuttles are air dropped from NASA NB-52B aircraft. In '73 a battle raged about the vehicle wing shape. Maxime Faget wanted a straight wing with a classic tail. The delta-wing however had strong supporters. A compromise was found with short, medium-mounted delta wing complete with a V-tail.

The following X-27C and X-27D didn't go anywhere. An hypersonic variant proposed in 1975-76, the piloted X-27C with the XLR-99 might be build at a later date, but its future remain very uncertain.

The unpiloted, unpowered X-27D might be send into suborbital flight test, probably by a Titan II.

A logical follow-on to the X-27D as proponed by North American Rockwell is the X-27E - a space station rescue vehicle and a more sophisticated alternative to their own Apollo capsule. Rockwell touts horizontal landings and glided reentry as major advantages in the case of bringing back a badly hurt astronaut.

According to Harrison Storms "With wings you can ride the atmosphere instead of brutally sinking through it. G-forces are accordingly much lower, a mere 1.5 G, so low that an astronaut might stand on his feet during reentry.

Finally, the X-27F is an orbital, operational, military variant of the X-27D – still unmanned, and launched by an augmented Titan II into orbit for weeks at a time. Despite the Air Force best efforts, it has not been funded yet. President Carter is dead set against any militarization of space, and thus doesn't want the X-27F to ever fly. At the end of the day only three X-27s have flown so far, the single X-27A glider and the piloted, powered X-27Bs.
 
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Archibald

Banned
Folks, I'm currently working on two major pop culture events. The first involves Michael Jackson; the latter, Star Trek and Star Wars.
 

Archibald

Banned
Oops, got kicked for a week because of the Kardashians (which hopefully never exist ITTL)
I worked on some very cool stuff and the story is taking many interesting twists and turnes
 
Because post #368 ?
better keep the strong F-language at home and replace by better words.
like "annoying", "irritating", "Vexing", "unimportant" for certain celebrity...
a question to our Moderators: is "Brainless" consider a insult in this Forum ?
 
Pop culture (4) - a different Star Trek TMP

Archibald

Banned
a now a little pop culture entry


... From 1973 onwards, Gene Roddenberry made a comeback to science fiction, selling ideas for many new series to a variety of networks – and he had seven failures in a row !

Roddenberry's Genesis II was set in a post-apocalyptic Earth. He had hoped to recreate the success of Star Trek without "doing another space-hopping show". He created a 45-page writing guide, and proposed several story ideas based on the concept that pockets of civilisation had regressed to past eras or changed altogether. The pilot aired as a TV movie in March 1973, setting new records for the Thursday Night Movie of the Week. Roddenberry was asked to produce four more scripts for episodes but, before production began again, CBS aired the film Planet of the Apes. It was watched by an even greater audience than Genesis II, so CBS scrapped Genesis II and replaced it with the Apes television series.

Roddenberry second atempt was The Questor Tapes, a project that reunited him with his Star Trek collaborator, Gene L. Coon, who was in failing health at the time. NBC ordered sixteen episodes, and tentatively scheduled the series to follow The Rockford Files on Friday nights; the pilot launched on January 23, 1974, to positive critical response. Roddenberry however balked at the substantial changes requested by the network and left the project, leading to its immediate cancellation.

During 1974, Roddenberry third atempt was a reworked Genesis II concept entitled Planet Earth, for rival network ABC, with similar results. The pilot was aired on April 23, 1974. While Roddenberry wanted to create something that could feasibly exist in the future, the network wanted stereotypical science fiction women and were unhappy when that was not delivered, and so the serie failed. Worse, Roddenberry was not involved in a third reworking of the material by ABC that produced Strange New World.

Undaunted, Roddenberry began developing MAGNA I, an underwater science fiction series, for 20th Century Fox Television. But by the time the work on the script was complete, those who had approved the project had left Fox and their replacements were not interested in the project.

A similar fate was faced by Tribunes, a science fiction police series, which Roddenberry attempted to get off the ground between 1973 and 1977. He gave up after four years; the series never reached the pilot stage. The pilot for the series Spectre, Roddenberry's attempt to create an occult detective duo similar to Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, was released as a television movie.

So one can see how Roddenberry failed to get out of his Star Trek paradigm. It was quite inevitable that at some point he would return to the Star Trek verse.

And indeed, because of ongoing fan support, Roddenberry was hired once more by Paramount, in May 1975, to create and produce a feature film based on the franchise. The studio was unimpressed with the ideas being put forward; John D. F. Black's opinion was that their ideas were never "big enough" for the studio, even when one scenario involved the end of the universe.

In the year 1976 several ideas were partly developed including Star Trek: The God Thing and Star Trek: Planet of the Titans. The two scripts heavily borrowed from all of Roddenberry aborted TV-series since 1973; but they didn't went anywhere.

Following the commercial reception of Star Wars, in June 1977, Paramount instead green-lit a new series set in the franchise titled Star Trek: Phase II, with Roddenberry and most of the original cast, except Nimoy, set to reprise their respective roles. It was to be the anchor show of a proposed Paramount-owned "fourth network", but plans for the network were scrapped and the project was reworked into a feature film.

The Star Trek Phase II pilot was created by Roddenberry himself. Making lemons into lemonade, Roddenberry once again did a major synthesis work. He recycled ideas from all the non-StarTrek TV series failures of the 1973-1976 era; and he added elements from the equally aborted film scripts The God Thing and Planet of the Titans. Roddenberry jokingly refered to Star Trek phase II pilot as a "patchwork".

When Paramount four channel was scrapped in the fall of 1977, a stubborn Rodenberry managed to convince Paramount to turn his series pilot into a full blown movie.

The initial draft had the following plot that was extended to make The Motion Picture. Icing on the cake, Leonard Nimoy was back as Spock. The reason was that the film industry had much more money than TV; Nimoy (and Shatner, for that matter) salaries were accordingly higher.

(this is a draft by Roddenberry dated July 1977)

[ Enterprise is under way again. Indeed some nasty entity had came out of nowhere, spreading havoc across the solar system and in the direction of Earth. Now Enterprise moves into interception but, on the way, came across another bizarre thing: a very, very old-style spaceship that turned out to be a NASA space station – named Enterprise ! - from the twentieth century, moving on a centuries-long orbit around the sun. In the station is a life-suspended man. The Enterprise crew take him on board but face the dilemma to awoke him or not. Meanwhile the Enterprise face the entity – the shape of which is not clearly defined. The entity successively take the shape of a spaceship, a computer, a robot, and finally a small cloud of energy.

The entity request authorisation to come aboard the Enterprise, but proves menacing. It abduct some crew members, kill another, erase the memory of a third. Spock finally manages to read through the thing feelings – only to find that a) the entity is based on a 20th century NASA probe – send to Jupiter or Saturn long before b) aliens found and returned the probe to Earth, and on the way home it acquired a consciousness c) it thinks that Kirk its it creator, a creator it will worship like a god d) the entity lack morale and can kill life just because it dislikes imperfection.

Spock and Kirk have to recover their fellows, save Earth and move the nasty thing away. At this very moment the frozen men – called Dylan Hunt - awake to find a world quite different from what he knew. It happens that he is the creator of the probe; he has been sent in heliocentric orbit and suspended life by NASA, who (rightly) feared some god awful war happening in the 90’s (the infamous Eugenic wars)

A handful of similar probes had been send to Jupiter and Saturn moons and out of the solar system in a desperate attempt by mankind to leave a trace of its existence. Now the outer probe is returning, enlisting its sisters on the way back to Earth.

Kirk offer himself to the entity at the condition it restore the Enterprise crew and leave Earth alone. The entity agrees, only to find Kirk its not its creator. It then threatens to blast off the solar system before Dylan Hunt steps in, and talk to the entity. This time the thing burst into emotion for the first time in its existence, and the astronaut ask it what it wants. The entity suggests they merge together and return to the aliens planet. Kirk warn Dylan it might be dangerous, but the astronaut smiles and answer him he has nothing to do on a much changed Earth so far in the future.

So the two fuse, and the good part of the creator takes control of the entity, restoring the Enterprise crew and promising Kirk he will spare Earth. The entity then vanish into another dimension, while Enterprise settle for new adventures... ]
 
i hope This is NOT directed by Robert Wise, otherwise it become a little bit boring...
Paramount had ask Francis Ford Coppola, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas and Robert Wise to do the Job...
 
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