Engineering A Planet

Well, I tried to warp your map with Photoshop to get a rectangular shape but could not control the shape well enough.

I tried with a little Matlab programming, in which I removed the white portions of the map and stretched the remainder. There is an odd distortion in parts of the map that I can probably remove, but not now. Here it is:

kaartN.tif

kaartN.tif


kaartN.png
 
After that, I added white zones to the top and the bottom where you could conceivably fill in the missing portions of the map. I then reshaped it to conform to the 2:1 ratio Celestia needs.

EDITED: For same reason I cannot show this map; I do not know why; the
section is the same as in the previous post.

kaartN.tif
 
I've found a cheap and easy method to make a realistic planet map. Contour though, not relief. Still it's easy and the end result is very realistic.

Inkscape and photoshop/gimp/paint.NET required.

STEP ONE: take a picture of a cloud. Best a pretty formation with decent contrast, like a big cumulus. Standard digital camera rez will do; the bigger and more detailed the foto, the bigger and more detailed the map. Artsy cloud pictures from Flickr or whatever are excellent.
example: http://m57.img-up.net/?up=P1000671fn4fj.JPG (I link images because they're pretty fucken big.)

STEP TWO: open the pic in Inkscape, go to Path and select Trace Bitmap... This takes the cloud picture and separates it into monochrome layers that you cal manipulate individually.
Make sure you have the pic selected or nothing will happen. Play around with the options - my go-to is Colors, five layers, no smoothing, Remove background, Stack scans. Then do the thing.

STEP THREE: you now have a bitmap cloud underneath several layers of color-level layers. Drag the layers around (which can be somewhat of a bitch, you have to choose an individual layer with the [F2] node editing mouse and drag it with the [F1] select-and-transform mouse) until you find one you like. IE, the one that looks like a map. Export this layer.

STEP FOUR: in paint.NET or other program, load the layer you just exported. Globally select the empty parts of the bitmap and fill it with a color, invert the selection and erase of paint the "sea". You now have something like this:
http://p38.img-up.net/?up=g2997qt7ar.png
Beauty, ain't it? Edit it any way you like. Erase lakes, smooth the shorelines, whatever. I do this whole thing with many different clouds so I have many different of these maps, which I knit-and-fit together in paint.NET till I have a good-looking continent.

Here's an example of what the endproduct (a few maps stitched together):
http://m04.img-up.net/?up=rainbowlanuay9.png

If you want a vector map instead of a bitmap... map, simply run the endproduct through the Trace Bitmap... thing again with 2 layers.

Sorry for the shoddy tutorial, but I thought I'd share.
 
Nice work Coen!

With regard to the general making of maps, I have some advice if you want to make a well grounded (not necessarily a good looking, or fantastic, or whatnot map, but a realistic in that it follows terrestrial models).

You need to make the map of the entire world. Back when I was climate-modeling on this thread, the easiest worlds to model were the full planet maps. You cannot accurately model a single continent or section of a planet without knowing the exterior conditions. A continent is not (in reality) a closed system. You can however treat a planet as one.

Relative to the actual creation of the map: my preference is pencil and paper sketches as I grew up drawing before Photoshop and company. Regardless of origin (sketch, cloud-method, or sneezing on your monitor) eventually you'll need to take it into the computer (drawing successive iterations of the same map is discouraging, while working from a base map works very well.) to handle climate modeling as the programs are much more versatile at those operations.

But if you want to do accurate climate modeling, forget forests, deserts, rivers, and lakes for now. You first need topography - mountains and valleys and the like - to determine what is wet and what is dry. From there you can begin determining climate zones, and then environments, and then biomes and the like.

I have described the process before...but it's either too arcane for some...buried for those who would otherwise use it...or something or other.
 

VT45

Banned
Thanks so much, Coen!

Here's my attempt to make a satellite map in Paint.NET. You have more experience with these things than I, so do you think you could clean up the boundaries on it? The boundaries here seem a little too abrupt (except along the coasts, those are fine).

anahita.jpg
 
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Thanks so much, Coen!

Here's my attempt to make a satellite map in Paint.NET. You have more experience with these things than I, so do you think you could clean up the boundaries on it? The boundaries here seem a little too abrupt (except along the coasts, those are fine).

VulcanTrekkie45, I am afraid I do no have the time for that. In truth, the reason I programmed the 'rectification' of your nap was because I was curious whether I could. But as far as producing good-looking maps is concerned, you will have to find out by learning to use a graphics program. The GIMP is apparently good, but completely free.
 
Many people in the Maps thread suggested I necro this thread in order to get help on a world I'm building. And considering how much discussion this could generate, I find myself
agreeing with them.

The world in question is, at first draft, this one:
oRKHC.png


This I decided was only really a base for the world I'm working on, seeing as how it's made by simply cutting and pasting our world. The final version, which I don't suspect I'll get to
for a while, will be hand drawn and resemble our world less so. But at the moment, everything is relatively in the right place.

The next step I took in trying to flesh out the world was an attempt at positioning major mountain ranges. That brought me to this:
FtOyt.png


The ranges, to an extent, resemble the ones we already have here on Earth. The reason for this is because I partially moved the continents with this in mind. The story I'm
trying to write is based in some aspects on the beginning of Iron Age Greece, so I figured borrowing some physical features from our world would make this easier to do.

Based on the previous map, Gorm the Old provided me with the following map when I asked the forum for climatological information on what I'd provided so far:
ifIgl.png


He has my undying gratitude for his help. Much of the information was surprising to me, but in some ways was exactly what I was hoping for. Despite this, Gorm and a few others
pointed out to me the problem with using the word "major" to explain the mountain ranges I'd placed on the map. This was something that hadn't stuck me until I had already
posted. So, on collective advise, I went about making a basic topographic map.

Now, this is a slightly updated (hand-drawn) draft, more so meant to get the continents positions to where I'd like them than finalize the coasts-some are overly rigid. It is
not much more done than the first draft when it comes to how I want the world map to look. But again, everything MAJOR is pretty much in the right place; all those islands I didn't
see as worth drawing because I feel like they wouldn't have much of an effect on climatology. But whatever land you see on any previous versions that isn't attached to a major
continent, assume it's there.
IZXWe.jpg


I'm going to follow up first by saying that topographic maps are by far my most difficult maps to draw. This was painful. Elevation is something I'm not too good at keeping track of
in my head, and I'm not too well trained in Metric either. So, if you find that key and its numbers off to the side as entirely useless, feel free to ignore the numbers; the colors still go
in order of lowest to highest from top to bottom. Also, sorry, crayons were the only thing I could find to do this.

The highest peak, over on that North western continent, is ~7500m. The middle continent's highest peak is a little over 6300m.
And the highest peaks in pseudo-North America *barely* make it over 5000m.

As for ocean depth, because Gorm also suggested that, I don't have a map or much information. The ocean with those millions of little islands doesn't get much deeper
than the Aegean. Everything else can pretty much be equated in depth to the our world equivalent.

As for that island area. The islands don't get any higher than Hawaii, and some of them are as small as those islands in the Caribbean that form and disappear within a day.
A good amount of them are volcanically active too, and the sea they sit in tends to be 2-5 degrees warmer than it normally should be.

Once upon a time I made a fault-lines map, but am no longer satisfied with it. So it won't be showing up here unless necessary.

I have no idea why that last map is so much larger than any of the others. /:

And finally, the mission here is to get help in refining the climatological information of the latest map. Similar, hopefully, to the one Gorm gave me.

Any more information I will gladly provide to any of you who are generous enough to help me. :D Thanks in advance to everyone who stops by.
 
Nice work this far! I can take a stab at it later tonight when I'm home from work - I've not the software here to fiddle appropriately.

However, nudging from what Gorn already put forward, Id say you go a pretty good start to work from. If you look further back in the thread you can see my methodology from my maps and others. It looks like Gorn might have used a similar method, in that he has some prevailing wind patterns and cold/warm regions. What I would try to do is set up a January - July map pair, giving you summer/winter for both hemispheres, and estimate the pressure zones that could form and from those form general patterns. From those patterns you can determined the wet and dry regions (so you might as well ignore your rivers for now) and once you know what is wet/dry compare its latitude and topography to Earth analogues and extrapolate.

Keeping in mind ways that this is rough modeling, and that you are far more likely to generate a realistic map this way than if you were to delve into the nifty gritty.
 
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.ice work this far! I can take a stab at it later tonight when I'm home from work - I've not the software here to fiddle appropriately.

Thanks! :) That'd be really helpful if you are able to find the time, and I'd be most appreciative.

However, nudging from what Born already put forward, id say you go a pretty good start to work from. If you look further back in the thread you can see my methodology from my maps and others. It looks like Born might have used a similar method, in that he has some ore ailing wind patterns and cold/warm regions. What I would try to do is set up a January - July map pair, giving you summer/winter for both hemispheres, and estimate the pressure zones that could form and from those form general patterns. From those patterns you can determined the wet and dry regions (so you might as well ignore your rivers for now) and once you know what is wet/dry compare its latitude and topography to Earth analogues and extrapolate.

:eek: Yikes. Looks like I'll be taking a crash course in pressure systems. Lots of research to do for the afternoon, I suppose. :rolleyes: So I'm not complaining. Maybe I'll know enough to better understand by the time you post later.

Keeping in mind ways that this is rough modeling, and that you are far more likely to generate a realistic map this way than if you were to delve into the nifty gritty.

I'm mostly looking for rough models. Just got to get a rough look of the world before I start writing about it.
 
I have also been working on a planet and would like somebody with more knowledge than I to tell me the likely climatic conditions. It is a world slightly smaller than our own, spins more quickly and has a denser atmosphere.

This is the heights map:
The darker areas are the heigher peaks with the tallest being a bit larger than Mt Everest.

Heights.png
 
Thanks! :) That'd be really helpful if you are able to find the time, and I'd be most appreciative.

You are welcome!
:eek: Yikes. Looks like I'll be taking a crash course in pressure systems. Lots of research to do for the afternoon, I suppose. :rolleyes: So I'm not complaining. Maybe I'll know enough to better understand by the time you post later.
Look at the first few pages of this thread, I list the resources I used then, and you can always look up "prevailing wind patterns", "climate models", etc. in Google to get useful guide-pictures or other informative sites.


I'm mostly looking for rough models. Just got to get a rough look of the world before I start writing about it.
And rough is what you shall have!

Map 1: Your base map.

base map.jpg
 
Map 2, we add lines of Latitude, as well as arrows to denote prevailing wind patterns on an Earth-like world (same rotation speed, direction, etc.)

lat-long.jpg
 
Map 3, Winter (January) Winds/Pressures.

I'll go into detail on this later tonight/tomorrow, but I wanted to get you this much as I said I would.

winter pressure-winds.jpg
 
Okay, I'm trying to put together a planet, and I'm attempting to get as much of the land area as possible to fit the descriptions of WWF biomes 04 to 12. (Alternatively, basically anything you'd find north of 40 degrees N, with a few dips southward to grab on to the American Southwest, the coastal Med and the Fertile Crescent, and the African savanna.)

That said, before I go about doing that, I have a few more general questions:

It is my understanding that land at the poles usually means a much, much larger area of ice, tundra, and taiga in northern regions. Is this generally the case, or is there some list of strange caveats I need to know about?

What effects would having effectively no land at the tropics/equatorial region look like? Would it keep all that warm water circulating in its own current, and keep it from heading north to create a Gulf Stream-like moderation of temperatures in the more northerly regions? I also imagine that, in such a scenario, monsoons and hurricanes would be horrifyingly monstrous, but would rarely do much more than scrape the edges of the continents- and I'm not exactly sure about seasonal effects, but I just suddenly got a horrifying and wondrous vision of a neverending tropical storm circling the equator and preventing inter-hemisphere transit until a roughly modern technology level is reached. (This is more a matter of curiosity than an actual idea for this particular conworld.)

And on other matters- desertification. I imagine that, to prevent grasslands, savanna, prairie, steppe, chaparral, scrublands, rain shadows, etc from becoming either deserts proper, cold deserts proper, or tundra (in the more polar areas), it would be prudent to add large numbers of lakes, rivers, and oceanic passages to retain irrigation and moderate rains.

I would also imagine that smaller coastal and near coastal mountain ranges like the Appalachians and the Olympics/Coast Ranges would help in, on the one hand, creating cold rainforest, and on the other hand, moderating storms in the more inland regions, but I also imagine that, deep in a large continent, prairie rainstorms would be hard to prevent without a lot of big mountains like the Rockies or the inland European/Eurasian ranges (Alps, Balkans, Urals, Zagros, Himalayas, for example.).

Am I completely nuts, or on the right track?


Edit: And while it's in my mind, another question- how much is climate affected by vegetation? Obviously, plants will grow in areas suited to them climatically, to climate has a huge effect on vegetation, but for instance, scrub brush in a desert can do a lot to prevent the formation of large sand dunes, for example, but how detailed can climate modelling be without knowing something about the biologics of a region?
 
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I've been working for some time on a fantasy or sci-fi planet map, and would be interested in some help with determining climates and such.

The map is bleepin' huge, so you can resize it if that makes your job easier. The brown blobs are mountains, approximately. Obviously all that is very rough work.

SRUwJ.png
 
SO, I have NOT disappeared forever! Though my temp job has put me pretty far behind in properly researching all of the data you're giving me. Though I'm fairly certain that I'm understanding at least the rudimentary aspects of those last two maps.

Again, thank you Azardin. If you want and are able to expand on those last few maps, it'd be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll try to work with what I have so far.
 
SO, I have NOT disappeared forever! Though my temp job has put me pretty far behind in properly researching all of the data you're giving me. Though I'm fairly certain that I'm understanding at least the rudimentary aspects of those last two maps.

Again, thank you Azardin. If you want and are able to expand on those last few maps, it'd be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll try to work with what I have so far.

I can expand on them; as you have been otherwise occupied so too have I. I will elaborate once I am home from work.

EDIT: Gryphon, I'll talk to your questions once I am home too.
 
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Okay, I'm trying to put together a planet, and I'm attempting to get as much of the land area as possible to fit the descriptions of WWF biomes 04 to 12. (Alternatively, basically anything you'd find north of 40 degrees N, with a few dips southward to grab on to the American Southwest, the coastal Med and the Fertile Crescent, and the African savanna.)

That said, before I go about doing that, I have a few more general questions:

It is my understanding that land at the poles usually means a much, much larger area of ice, tundra, and taiga in northern regions. Is this generally the case, or is there some list of strange caveats I need to know about?

If I recall correctly, this is true, generally. The poles typically are under the domain of the northern/southernmost air cell, so there is going to be prevailing high pressure zone in that region. Now, the caveat is that I would say this only holds if the pole is all land, or all ocean. An all land/ocean pole would be under a relatively uniform paradigm and thus would be basically a high pressure or low pressure cell depending on the season.

Now if you break it up with land, altering currents (say with a Gulf Stream analogue going up north of Greenland instead of towards Europe) you change the dynamic. Water and Land heat and cool at different rates which gives you different localized pressure cells which gives you different prevailing weather patterns (this is of course, very generalized, but I would say for the sake of a story you don't need super-computed models). See the link below for a decent picture of those air cells, this also helps with prevailing winds.

http://www.newmediastudio.org/DataD...terly_Waves/Trade_Winds/Trade_Winds_fig01.jpg

What effects would having effectively no land at the tropics/equatorial region look like? Would it keep all that warm water circulating in its own current, and keep it from heading north to create a Gulf Stream-like moderation of temperatures in the more northerly regions?

I think this is tricky. As you may know, down in the Antarctic we've the Circum-antarctic current which makes for powerful storms and waves as they can fly around the Earth again and again unimpeded.

However, if we look at a map of the thermohaline circulation we can also see that the cold water currents follow the general C-A path too. Judging from the path of the TH circulation, it looks like the rotation of the Earth might even play a role in the imparting of momentum to the water as it does to the air.

I suppose you could see a storm system march all the way around the equator and become gigantic, but that disregards the effects of currents coming in from north or south, where landmasses ought to disturb any planet-lapping patterns.

I also imagine that, in such a scenario, monsoons and hurricanes would be horrifyingly monstrous, but would rarely do much more than scrape the edges of the continents- and I'm not exactly sure about seasonal effects, but I just suddenly got a horrifying and wondrous vision of a neverending tropical storm circling the equator and preventing inter-hemisphere transit until a roughly modern technology level is reached. (This is more a matter of curiosity than an actual idea for this particular conworld.)

Even if you had a storm system that lapped the world, wouldn't it have a nucleus that would rotate much like the Great Red Spot, leaving a relatively calm wake that might be traversed with luck/skill/God's good Grace?

I would think that so long as you have North-South ocean access, the TH circulation is going to cut into any circum-equatorial superstorms. The water being heated at the equator will fuel the storm, yes, but it will also be under thermodynamic forces that will effectively cause it to migrate to where colder water is sinking. (This is, after all, the basic mechanism of the Gulf Stream and the overall TH circulation.)

And on other matters- desertification. I imagine that, to prevent grasslands, savanna, prairie, steppe, chaparral, scrublands, rain shadows, etc from becoming either deserts proper, cold deserts proper, or tundra (in the more polar areas), it would be prudent to add large numbers of lakes, rivers, and oceanic passages to retain irrigation and moderate rains.

I would agree, but in regards to this my modelling generally has been in a single year snapshot mode. You would have to actually model it for years at a time to determine any changes over time spans greater than a year.

Now, the way I minimized deserts and the like in my world (Tellus, see earlier in the thread), was by instead of having massive continents and massive oceans, I distributed the mass around. The 'Atlantic' is a mite smaller, yes, but I took that space and put it into the 'Arctic' to make it a different shape which changed the patterns of weather.

I would also imagine that smaller coastal and near coastal mountain ranges like the Appalachians and the Olympics/Coast Ranges would help in, on the one hand, creating cold rainforest, and on the other hand, moderating storms in the more inland regions, but I also imagine that, deep in a large continent, prairie rainstorms would be hard to prevent without a lot of big mountains like the Rockies or the inland European/Eurasian ranges (Alps, Balkans, Urals, Zagros, Himalayas, for example.).

Again, talking about things like that get beyond the broad patterns and so my general rule on that is look to what we have on Earth. Compare terrain features, latitudes, currents, winds, etc., and you'll get a fair approximation of what you should see in your own world.

Edit: And while it's in my mind, another question- how much is climate affected by vegetation? Obviously, plants will grow in areas suited to them climatically, to climate has a huge effect on vegetation, but for instance, scrub brush in a desert can do a lot to prevent the formation of large sand dunes, for example, but how detailed can climate modelling be without knowing something about the biologics of a region?

Well, my thought on that matter is thus:

If you take guidance from the current theories of Evolution, or even if one is to follow from a theological position (for example, the Judeo-Christian Creation account, as I hold to), you have in both basic cases Terrain and Oceans first, plants and animals next. (The differences between the two paradigms are not immediately relevant to my admittedly simplified response here. ;) )

Animals ultimately require plants, plants require water. Watered land requires wind to carry the water up towards the mountains to fall as rain to form streams to form rivers to flow into the oceans. Therefore, start with your topography, determine climate zones, and then compare to what Earth has (and one can always change things for the sake of a story, but don't change too much or you make your previous modelling efforts moot), and viola - A living world.

Map 3, Winter (January) Winds/Pressures.

Green is High Pressure (HP), Red is Low (LP). The pale band around the equator is the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ICZ). Black are your prevailing wind patterns at that point in the year.

I'll use the following nomenclature for the rest of the details: NC for the continent in the northwest. NCA for the archipelago trailing southwards. PA for the Pseudo-Africa/South America in the center of the map. PE for the Pseudo-Europe in the Antarctic. PNA for Pseudo-North America.

Now, assuming January represents northern winter, NC looks to be dominated by a HP, surrounded by LP ocean. Likely, this means you'd see dry winters in the interior but potentially stormy weather along the coasts of the north and for sure you'd see inclement weather in the part of the NC south of the mountains leading down into the NCA.

You can see an HP on the northern part of PA, generating similar wind patterns as NC, but now we have the ICZ crossing the continent, which is generally going to pull in moisture from the HP cell over the southern oceans. This makes me think you'd see basically the biomes of Africa inverted on PA. Sahara in the north, where it looks like southern Africa, then working to savanna, then rainforest, and then probably temperate forests along the southern coast.

the NCA is going to probably always be relatively well watered, but I imagine there will be lots of storms and powerful currents about them.

PE, as it is in it's Summer, looks to have a very wet summer - perhaps akin to the weather on the North European Plain? You see that circular zone? That could be a relatively stormy zone - those mountains could be quite ominous. You'd also not likely see much of a rain shadow emerge because you've moisture channels all over. One side of a range might be temporarily in the shadow for a particular weather pattern, but not necessarily the next one.

PNA, very similar to PE. I think it could be readily compared to North American climate zones, just inverted as it's in the southern hemisphere.

The incredibly small HP in the north is likely even smaller in reality. I'd imagine those could generate HP cells that are carried off by the prevailing wind, drawing storms in towards the islands.

Map 4: Summer (July) Winds/Pressures

Northern Summer, Southern Winter

PA - Hooboy but she's going to be a massive LP! Perhaps monsoons! As you can see by the black arrows, from the NE, the E, SE, S, and SW the interior is in a rainshadow. From the NW and W, however, there is a channel for water to be brought in. The coastal regions would likely be wracked with storms.

I didn't draw the ICZ on this map, but you could imagine it running the length of the warped equator here. This suggests quite a nice belt of rain forests all around the planet.

PA - during this season you'd likely see the only rains to the north.

NCA - more storms and currents. If you're an excellent navigator I'd imagine these to be quite the spot.

PE - generally it looks like a dry winter, with snow storms along the coast and perhaps winter rains/snow along the interior sea. Certainly something in those mountains.

PNA - again, similar to PE.

Looking at this world, you have a situation much like mine, in that you inadvertently used topography to keep it moist!
 
Azardin, you're a wonderful fellow, and this helps immensely. I'd like to say 'you have no idea how helpful this is,' but I get the feeling that, on some level, you just might, but I'll say it again- this is immensely useful, and thank you.

(Tangent time: Over the time between having the idea and now, I have become quite taken in a narrative way by the idea of a neverending planetwide storm, like a planetary belt, for the wonderful plots it could create- first contact betwixt hemispheres, and such. It would be like any number of space operas, but with a much lower technology level on both sides- oh, it'd be fun. And I feel absolutely certain someone else has written up a book or two about it already, but I digress- heavily.)

If and when I finish a map of reasonable quality, I shall be sure to upload it, along with my general thoughts on climate. (I'll leave languages, cultures, religions, and other worldbuilding stuff for whatever threads are appropriate for those subjects.) Again, many thanks.
 
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