Edward II of England, the Clever Handed

[frustrated progressive]

Wow. That's a big post. I'll have to give some of it more thought, but there are a couple of things I can clear up now.

1. In the OTL, Edward III was able to walk a line between making the nobles happy and giving away his power so it seems it can be done if you're careful. For me, with how overbearing Edward I was I can't figure out how Edward and Piers in the OTL DIDN'T end up being cleverer.

2. Scotland is broke at this point. In the OTL, they had to continue. But once Edward II made his overlordship theoretical, Scotland has no real reason to fight.

3. The Holy Roman Emperor helping Edward II conquer France and Isabella's brother all dropping dead within 15 years of each other with no male heirs both happened in the OTL. I just took advantage of it.

I'll post more after I've had a chance to think.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I'll deal with these point by point.

1. Temperament is the reason? More importantly, Galveston and Edward are roughly the same age. While he isn't technically Edward's guardian, he's acting very much as one, which is rather implausible.
2. Technically, the Scottish War by this point had devolved into a guerrilla war where the English could never win without significantly more Scottish support than they ever achieved. While Edward's conciliation makes war unnecessary, it is still possible. This doesn't mean that Robert will immediately revolt as soon as Edward marches south of the Tweed, it does mean that the Scots will be able to jockey for greater autonomy and power, and represent a constant running problem for Edward (at least until France supports the Balliols).
3. The Emperor was doing this OTL to blunt the rise of French hegemony, which was the point. The HRE's interest is to prevent other western European powers from matching it in power and influence, not to favor one particular power over another. In TTL, the strategic imperative would be exactly reversed. Moreover, Edward TTL unchecked would become far more powerful than OTL's France, and so the HRE would be even more desperate to halt its rise, far more willing to lock itself into a negative-sum war of attrition just to maim it. Also,I don't really see why the OTL HRE supporting Edward against France would have any relevance to the TTL HRE supporting France, at least to your line of argument.

Of course, it is your TL, and it's fine if you ignore these. However, if you deal with these issues in a good way, this TL has the potential to go from promising to great.

 

[BigDestiny]

I think part of the reason for the issues my timeline is giving you, is the speed at which I'm moving through the timeline. I didn't want to keep returning to the Witangamot (one of those old English words Edward brought back) to show Piers out maneuvering the barons, but maybe that would have added more believability to the story.

The Famine still happened, and would have played a part in the regulations that held back the Black Death. No doubt some of the volunteers going to the Continent during the war were old men, widows, and orphans who had no means of feeding themselves. And many of them still died out on the fields of France.

I've thought about the Holy Roman Emperor, and you're right. It makes absolutely no sense. I could probably come up with a reasonable explanation with some work though. Maybe a series of one shots from the Holy Roman Emperor, the Scots, and the Papal Court?

 

[frustrated progressive]

I think part of the reason for the issues my timeline is giving you, is the speed at which I'm moving through the timeline. I didn't want to keep returning to the Witangamot (one of those old English words Edward brought back) to show Piers out maneuvering the barons, but maybe that would have added more believability to the story.

The Famine still happened, and would have played a part in the regulations that held back the Black Death. No doubt some of the volunteers going to the Continent during the war were old men, widows, and orphans who had no means of feeding themselves. And many of them still died out on the fields of France.

I've thought about the Holy Roman Emperor, and you're right. It makes absolutely no sense. I could probably come up with a reasonable explanation with some work though. Maybe a series of one shots from the Holy Roman Emperor, the Scots, and the Papal Court?

Thanks for thinking about this.

Making Gaveston not an asshole like he was in OTL (a relatively easy task, probably just add in a few throwaway lines about him having an experience that changes him for the better) would obviate this point. The real issue is that he and Edward II were very possibly born in the exact same year. IOTL, Galveston rose to favor as Edward's same-age companion, not as a mentor. While this relationship could be made to work,it should probably be retconned into a "growing up together" sort of thing, rather than the Guardian/Pederast relationship it is now. Also, one of the reasons Edward and Isabella had a falling out was that she was humiliated by the fact that her husband was dominated by his homosexual lover. While Gaveston seems to have made enough concessions (letting her be the main beneficiary from the deaths of the Treasurer and Warwick) to prevent a poisoning of their working relationship, their relations may need to be covered in more detail.

Ok.

You can probably just add in some lines about infighting among the Kaiser's vassals and scheming in Imperial Italy on the part of the Roman Pope ( fears of a Guelph-Ghibeline rematch) to make his white peace plausible. As with the Isabella-Galveston relationship, this is the kind of stuff that would be golden with a sentence or two of explanation, but feels shoddy in its current state. Of course, I shouldn't judge, I haven't had a TL in a year. I hope you continue with this.

 

[BigDestiny]

Hey, everyone. I've edited my previous entries to provide more detail and plug some noted plot holes. The story hasn't changed, except for how the Coronation went down. It might be fun to reread it all, but it's not necessary.

 

[frustrated progressive]

Hey, everyone. I've edited my previous entries to provide more detail and plug some noted plot holes. The story hasn't changed, except for how the Coronation went down. It might be fun to reread it all, but it's not necessary.

Thanks. That fixed pretty much every issue, and I look forward to reading more of this!

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Fourteen: the Long Night of the City of Constantinople

As sundown approached, the different factions behind the city walls debated the Queen - Empress' ultimatum. Some supporters of John VI were convinced that Isabella couldn't back up her threat without troops to invade the city. Others were more concerned about the damage that she was capable of if she turned her fleet on the sea defenses.

Twilight fell, with no response from the would be Emperor. And as the sun vanished behind the European frontier, the British ships opened fire. The great ships sailed parallel to the walls on strafing runs, seeming less like they wanted to breach the city and more like they wanted to cause as much damage as possible. The archers launched waves of flaming arrows, lighting up the skies and starting fires. The British had enough troops and weapons that it seemed like they didn't need to reload. And strictly trained support ships that had been storing arrows and cannonballs that almost made that fact.

In point of fact, the Britons didn't have an invasion force, and hadn't planned on invading. They knew that John V had support behind the walls, and they were being joined by frightened people starting to think that supporting John VI had been a mistake. The British blasted Constantinople for less than half an hour before the gates opened and John VI was marched out in chains. The British King - Emperor ordered the bombardment cease. It took several minutes to regroup the fleet to accept the Byzantine surrender, but the city was theirs.

Edward* sent a ship to retrieve John V from his exile, and sailed his flagship into the harbor. It took a moment to disembark, with some wanting Edward to not risk himself, and the elderly Isabella wanting to go ashore as well. But they both got their way, and accepted control of the city. Isabella met with the local religious leaders and showed them the letter she'd received from the Pope. They were angry at being traded like a horse, and this time even Isabella's assurances that they would be listened to brought little relief.

Edward had more luck with the Byzantine Imperial Court. As with his father's previous conquests, he made sensible decisions for who controlled what, despite the fact that the actual ruler of the city wasn't there. And as his father had also done, he reminded them that if they ever had a problem John V couldn't (or wouldn't) resolve, that they shouldn't hesitate to send him a message.

*this is, of course, King - Emperor Edward II, the OTL Edward III. This timeline is not being made any easier by the fact that we're in a time period where all the Plantagenets seem to be named Edward.

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Fifteen: Jerusalem

John V returned to his capital in triumph, to the cheering of the populace and mostly satisfied local officials. Edward told him about the changes he'd made in the government, but the Byzantine Emperor was no longer as agreeable as he had been when he'd been in exile.

John V had the British fleet resupplied, and provided them with information that the Mamaluks in Egypt, the current rulers of the Holy Land, were vulnerable to attack. It had all the hallmarks of a dismissal, and the Britons left Constantinople feeling used and discarded. Edward wrote the Pope to say that it was the last time the Britons would be coming to the rescue of the Byzantine Empire.

The fleet did sail to Alexandria, though. They found a regime even more rickety than the one they'd left in Constantinople. Egypt could be defeated, but the Sultanate would likely collapse and Britain didn't have the resources to run it remotely. Edward wasn't about to fight a war to have the rewards go to the Ottomans, or worse Byzantium. So he offered the Mamaluks a deal.

Edward was welcomed in Cairo, and volunteered to build additional defenses in Syria against the Ottomans in exchange for certain rights to the former Kingdom of Jerusalem. The Sultan was pleased and accepted Edward's assistance. The British fleet set sail to Acre to set up their little vassalage. On the way, Isabella suffered a fall that left her bedridden but when they arrived she insisted on being taken to see Jerusalem.

The Emperor and his heir tried to dissuade her, reminding her that the journey could kill her. Isabella told them that at her age going back to England could kill her. She got her way. Despite terrible pain, Isabella, her son, and grandson traveled to the Holy City and went to the local churches. At the Holy Sepulcher, Isabella collapsed. She received Last Rites and asked for her wedding veil to be buried in her tomb next to her husband. But she herself died in Jerusalem and was buried there in a new chapel built onto the new Cathedral of the Holy Sepulcher.

 

[perfectgeneral]

Ah! An enduring commitment to the middle-east. This can't end badly at all.

 

[Kiwigun]

I really wonder if its possible for the British to invade Russia or Maya.

 

[BigDestiny]

I really wonder if its possible for the British to invade Russia or Maya.

Russia is doable, but slightly less practical than their already unpractical project in the Middle East. Going forward, the British goal is going to be shoring up their defenses in France, and building closer ties on the Iberian peninsula so that the Roman Emperor can't pull together a Spanish alliance.

I'm not sure who you mean by Maya. If you mean the Navarre village, the only thing keeping Navarre out of the Empire is the fact that Edward and Joan are too closely related. But if you mean the New World, Britain does have the best navy in the world, and any would be explorers are going to be looking for patrons there first.

 

[Kiwigun]

New World

I mean the New World.

 

[BigDestiny]

I mean the New World.

It's certainly going to be interesting. Britain will definitely be taking the lion's share of the New World, but I'm not sure what they're going to do with it. Standard procedure is to make the new territory autonomous with officials who are loyal and sensible. But that has been with Christian lands, and just now with the not TOO different Muslims. No matter how secular and sophisticated the Britons are, human sacrifice is going to be a terrible shock for them.

 

[perfectgeneral]

There should be some cherry picking of strategic early sites. You should gain control of the mouths of the major rivers. It all begs the question why not other countries though? I'm looking for more pushback from rival states.

 

[BigDestiny]

There should be some cherry picking of strategic early sites. You should gain control of the mouths of the major rivers. It all begs the question why not other countries though? I'm looking for more pushback from rival states.

You're in luck. Anything that happens with the Maya takes place almost a century from now. But the British fleet is coming home to the long awaited throw down with the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Sixteen: Homecoming

The British fleet was headed for French port and home when it was intercepted by the Empress Isabella. Now this was one of the new, larger class of Carovels, nicknamed She-wolves, not the shade of the Emperor's late mother, though ultimately that might have been less shocking. The appearance of the Empress Isabella was unexpected because 1. The She-wolf ship class was still in the design phase when the fleet had departed, 2. The Empress Isabella had far more teeth than the original design, and 3. She brought word that now that the Emperor was home they would shortly be at war with the Holy Roman Empire.

Louis IV, the Emperor who had been out witted by Edward Clever Handed, had died without sufficiently consolidating his Empire. But one of his rivals had been elected Emperor and Wenceslaus* was taking full advantage of what his predecessor had built. The King of Germany was no longer automatically King of the Romans and while still elected, would only choose the new Emperor alongside the Kings of Italy, Bohemia, and Burgundy. Since those three were the same person, the Holy Roman Empire was now suddenly hereditary.

The Emperor had been assisting Aragon in its war with Castille, now united with Navarre under Joan's son with the late king of Castille. There was a truce in place there, but the Emperor had used French support of Navarre as a pretext to ban French subjects from owning territory in the Roman Empire. Edward's Valois cousins, who owned territory on both sides of the border and were a useful buffer state, now risked losing their lands to an enlarged Burgundy.

Edward's brother John, the Prince Regent, was doing all he could to delay until the Emperor returned. He had lawyers arguing that France wasn't militarily involved in the Spanish conflict. He had lawyers arguing for Germany that any annexed territory in the area should remain German. He even had lawyers arguing that since Charles Valois had inherited an independent County of Flanders that he was no longer a French subject but in fact a Flemish Count with some land in France. None of these motions were likely to hold up, but John was hoping to delay until Britain was ready to move into Valois territory and take the Rhine, which was judged a more defensible border they couldn't be pushed from.

Edward asked how much more time was needed, and it would only be a few months. Edward sent his heir with the Mediterranean fleet, with orders to announce the Empress' death, and that the Emperor was staying in the Holy Land on pilgrimage. That would give John the excuse for further delays on account of mourning, and the British Emperor not being there to make a ruling on the Valois.

Edward turned his fleet back, hoping to go unnoticed as long as possible. But he wasn't headed for the Holy Land. He was headed for safe harbor with someone he hoped was still a friend: the King of Portugal.

 

[BigDestiny]

Ack! I forgot to put in my *

*Wenceslaus is the OTL Charles IV, who didn't change his name here because there was no French court of Charles Valois for him to spend time in.

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Seventeen: the Burgundy Crisis

The arrival in Portugal of His Most Christian and Imperial Majesty, Edward II, the Emperor of the Britons, the King of France, and the Defender of the Faith, was not the triumphal progress he'd received during his time in the East.

To avoid tipping Britain's hand, the fleet had anchored away from the trade routes and sent a single unmarked ship to make contact. But the Portuguese King made the Britons wait for four days before sending supplies and an invitation to the Emperor to meet. It was the type of snub Edward had never seen when his parents were alive, and there were those who wondered if perhaps the late Empress had taken British luck with her to the grave.

While Portugal had been happy to intervene in the dispute between Castille and Aragon, now that the conflict was threatening to widen the King was starting to have second thoughts. He unapologetically compared the British Empire to living near a bear: you could feed the bear for a while, but eventually you run out of fish. Even after Edward promised he had no intention of swallowing up the Iberian peninsula, the King of Portugal refused to fight a war directly against the Holy Roman Empire.

The situation got even more complicated when a letter arrived from Prince John. The Roman Emperor was unconvinced by Edward's claim of pilgrimage. But since the German frontier was as difficult to defend against as the French one, Emperor Wenceslaus was willing to meet to negotiate a way out of their impass.

Without Portugal's aid, avoiding open war was suddenly a more appealing option. Edward sent word that he was willing to meet Wenceslaus in Flanders and do what it took to resolve their differences.

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Eighteen: the Council of Bruges

Edward may have been in a tight spot, but he was determined to make the best use of what advantages he had. With Wenceslaus willing to parlay, Edward arranged a conference to take place in Bruges in Flanders. Supposedly to show what the situation was like in the actual disputed area, Bruges in particular was chosen because it was a port city. And when the Holy Roman Emperor arrived in town, he was met with the brightest of the British Navy. Including Britain's four She-wolves, the Edward Clever Handed, the Gascon, the Roger Mortimer, and the Empress Isabella.

Edward explained his position. He appreciated that Wenceslaus wanted to consolidate his position in his own Empire, but the Valois were Edward's cousins and Edward couldn't just disinherit them. And the buffer zone between the two Empires benefitted Wenceslaus as well. The question was what would it take to convince Wenceslaus that the status quo was a viable option.

Wenceslaus reminded Edward that his father had already done what the Roman Empire was doing a generation on. Keeping a buffer state between them was useful, but only if it wasn't a de facto colony of the Britons. Already the French were working to unite the Iberian crowns into a British puppet, and if the Holy Roman Empire didn't strengthen their border under a single Kingdom of Burgundy, they were at risk from an Empire running from the North Sea to Gibraltar.

Edward was willing to guarantee the independence of Portugal, Aragon, and Castille - Navarre if Wenceslaus was. And he played the old card of interceding with the Pope to get the Golden Bull making the Holy Roman Empire hereditary. He was even open to a united Kingdom of Burgundy, but his cousins had to stay where they were. Wenceslaus was not satisfied that the Valois would provide troops to defend Burgundy from France if they were needed.

And Wenceslaus had trouble in the North as well. With now two strengthening Empires in the South, Margaret of Denmark had used the fear of German encroachment to depose her husband's rival to the throne of Sweden and unified Norway, Sweden, and Denmark in the Kalmar Union. While sensible for the Scandinavians, it nonetheless left Wenceslaus with two hostile borders and risked the still noncentalized Kingdom of Germany being gobbled up by more unified neighbours.

Edward came up with a remarkably audacious plan. If Edward's son, who was an excellent soldier, could help Wenceslaus unite Germany under Roman control, he wouldn't need the Kingdom of Burgundy. And the Duchy of Burgundy could go on as a neutral buffer country. Wenceslaus was shocked, and said that he would need time to consider.

 

[BigDestiny]

Chapter Nineteen: Old and New Horizons

While the younger Edward was excited at the prospect of invading Germany with its own Emperor's permission, not all of the British Emperor's advisors thought it was a good idea.

The Crusade had taken much of the court away from the Capital for many years. Not only was there resistance to British expansion in Iberia and the Roman Empire, but the Scottish barons were quarreling with each other and their king. Prince John had done his best to maintain order, but he was worried about strengthening the Roman Emperor's hand in his own lands. He wrote to his brother "If it's a choice between French Flanders and a disorganized Germany, I think we'd be better off with Germany in chaos."

Fortunately, the Roman Emperor was seeing the downside of British help in Germany, and the likelihood of a Gascon being set up there. He offered German Flanders to France and the Valois, as long as they vacated the county of Hainault. And that was all he was offering. If the Valois wanted additional compensation it would have to come from British lands.

Edward was furious, but Hainault wasn't worth going to war over. And he had other ideas as to how to compensate his cousins. The younger Edward was disappointed, and the Valois were shocked, but the Emperors signed the treaty Wenceslaus offered. The British returned to Five Ports, and Edward sent his brother and his heir north to deal with the Scots.

With the continent hostile to British expansion, Edward readied a force that he'd been considering since he'd been in Egypt. There was a rich country named Mali, south of the great desert, that supplied Egypt and the Moors with gold. That gold was currently going through Muslim hands and into Muslim pockets, and Edward was determined to take control of it. With the cooperation of the Portuguese, the four She-wolves and an escort fleet would be heading down the African coast to find a sea route to Mali. And make it British.

 

[kasumigenx]

Now that the Luxembourgs don't rule HRE, that means Poland retains Silesia...

Chapter Sixteen: Homecoming

The British fleet was headed for French port and home when it was intercepted by the Empress Isabella. Now this was one of the new, larger class of Carovels, nicknamed She-wolves, not the shade of the Emperor's late mother, though ultimately that might have been less shocking. The appearance of the Empress Isabella was unexpected because 1. The She-wolf ship class was still in the design phase when the fleet had departed, 2. The Empress Isabella had far more teeth than the original design, and 3. She brought word that now that the Emperor was home they would shortly be at war with the Holy Roman Empire.

Louis IV, the Emperor who had been out witted by Edward Clever Handed, had died without sufficiently consolidating his Empire. But one of his rivals had been elected Emperor and Wenceslaus* was taking full advantage of what his predecessor had built. The King of Germany was no longer automatically King of the Romans and while still elected, would only choose the new Emperor alongside the Kings of Italy, Bohemia, and Burgundy. Since those three were the same person, the Holy Roman Empire was now suddenly hereditary.

The Emperor had been assisting Aragon in its war with Castille, now united with Navarre under Joan's son with the late king of Castille. There was a truce in place there, but the Emperor had used French support of Navarre as a pretext to ban French subjects from owning territory in the Roman Empire. Edward's Valois cousins, who owned territory on both sides of the border and were a useful buffer state, now risked losing their lands to an enlarged Burgundy.

Edward's brother John, the Prince Regent, was doing all he could to delay until the Emperor returned. He had lawyers arguing that France wasn't militarily involved in the Spanish conflict. He had lawyers arguing for Germany that any annexed territory in the area should remain German. He even had lawyers arguing that since Charles Valois had inherited an independent County of Flanders that he was no longer a French subject but in fact a Flemish Count with some land in France. None of these motions were likely to hold up, but John was hoping to delay until Britain was ready to move into Valois territory and take the Rhine, which was judged a more defensible border they couldn't be pushed from.

Edward asked how much more time was needed, and it would only be a few months. Edward sent his heir with the Mediterranean fleet, with orders to announce the Empress' death, and that the Emperor was staying in the Holy Land on pilgrimage. That would give John the excuse for further delays on account of mourning, and the British Emperor not being there to make a ruling on the Valois.

Edward turned his fleet back, hoping to go unnoticed as long as possible. But he wasn't headed for the Holy Land. He was headed for safe harbor with someone he hoped was still a friend: the King of Portugal.