Assuming that this is, as I understand, from an alternate version of the Bible, I believe that's par for the course. In other words, this last update is only as ASB as a quote from the OTL Book of Acts describing a miracle is.
East: An Alternate History of Judas Iscariot
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Is it though? At this point we are viewing the changes all through the lens of religious literature. At this point we know specific things, but for the most part it is up in the air.
What would be interesting is a standard historical account or an account from an author who has a bone to pick with the stories.
To be fair that is kind of unoriginal.
Also, sorry for not updating, I started work out of the blue a few days ago. When I get the time I'll write an update, maybe today.
I was think like a TES type thing where every source of information is valuable, but none of it is fully trusted, because everyone who writes has an agenda.
Also this is Althistorycom take you're time and don't worry about not being fast on updates, we understand
Ditto on both counts. That's actually the style I take in my own timeline; purposefully having a quoted author give a wrong detail, or even question whether something was true, when it, in fact, was. (I usually clarify this in footnotes or in little Narrative vignettes). I think its fun and adds a touch of realism since, even in OTL, we aren't always blessed with the best, sources on certain topics or eras of history.
Also, don't apologize for being late. Quality counts for much more than quantity. Ive been known to take months off at a time on my own timelines (sometimes *cough* a year
). Take your time and have fun with it, it is your project after all!Now, one thing I've been meaning to address. Since your main form of writing is from an apparent analogue to the Book of Acts, we are dealing with holy texts here. It would be interesting to see if some of your word choices could actually lead to some interesting doctrinal differences in this ATL Christianity. An obvious example is that Jesus has no forgiven Judas for his betrayal and also Peter for his vengeance against Judas. This alone could have some very important theological ramifications down the road. However, I could even see certain sentences or statements being grasped by later Christian thinkers and developed far beyond where the ATL author (and, for that matter, you) had intended.
First of all, very interesting premise. One of the great tragedies of Christian history is that Judas killed himself; a repentant Judas would have changed the church in interesting ways.
I wouldn't have pegged Peter as the fighsty one unwilling to forgive Judas; his own betrayal was fresh in his mind at the end of the gospels, and Acts depicts him as a bit more passive and conciliatory. James the Elder seems like a more likely candidate. On the other hand, it's not totally implausible.
While Paul comes from a Pharisee background--and subsequently repents of his legalism--Judas is believed by many scholars to have been a zealot, or at least motivated by the zealot tradition. Consequently, I wonder if his teaching might emphasize waiting on the Lord and not trying to accomplish earthly things by heavenly means. I think he'll agree with the Pauline, not the Jacobine, faction if/when the Council of Jerusalem occurs, but I suspect his emphasis will be more on not entangling worldly goals with the mission of Christ.
Incidentally, Enoch is the only book referenced in the NT that's not in scripture, so including it makes sense, but it's going to make your eventual creationist controversy so epically worse...
Anyway, will watch this one with interest.
I wouldn't have pegged Peter as the fighsty one unwilling to forgive Judas; his own betrayal was fresh in his mind at the end of the gospels, and Acts depicts him as a bit more passive and conciliatory. James the Elder seems like a more likely candidate. On the other hand, it's not totally implausible.
While Paul comes from a Pharisee background--and subsequently repents of his legalism--Judas is believed by many scholars to have been a zealot, or at least motivated by the zealot tradition. Consequently, I wonder if his teaching might emphasize waiting on the Lord and not trying to accomplish earthly things by heavenly means. I think he'll agree with the Pauline, not the Jacobine, faction if/when the Council of Jerusalem occurs, but I suspect his emphasis will be more on not entangling worldly goals with the mission of Christ.
Incidentally, Enoch is the only book referenced in the NT that's not in scripture, so including it makes sense, but it's going to make your eventual creationist controversy so epically worse...
Anyway, will watch this one with interest.
Eh, I guess. And I mean, even with what I'm saying, you could possibly argue that, say, none of this actually is happening, and that this is just either local stories or even a blatant myth.
Peter did cut off the guard that came to arrest Jesus' ear, so I figured he would go after him. James... I need to figure out where all the other apostles went lol.
Also, on Theology, I intend on there being an Apocalypse of Judas at some point, which will lead to lots of... fun.
While I really am not going to go out and say anything more, Rome is about to have some issues.
From the Bible, New English Version
The caravan of ships drugged across the sea. The tide had stopped, and thus the ship had to simply follow the currents. God sent a massive rain to soothe their thirst, as they had not drank in many days. During all of this time, Thomas and Judas preached to everyone on the ships, and eventually everyone on the ships became followers of the Way. After about a week and a half, a wild wind came. Judas had been on a ship apart from Thomas, to finish the lashing on said ship. Judas' ship was blown off course, and into a completely unknown water.
(Thomas eventually landed in a small kingdom in the south of India, where he became very popular and respected. The rest of Thomas' life, and all that had happened, are recorded in the Book of the Acts of Saint Thomas the Apostle.)
After many weeks, Judas and his ship was starving. Most of the people on the ship despaired, as there was no land around and it was not uncommon for ships to disappear in these waters. Judas, however, remained faithful, and prayed for food. It began to rain fish, and they all began to praise God for it.
Not long after this, the ship finally found land, and they were able to land there. The ship was turned into a small Church, which to this day still stands.
One day, while Judas was foraging for food, a band of natives captured him, since they had saw the shipwreck. They presented Judas to the king of the local tribe. Judas could not speak the language, and soon the natives began to be violent. They jostled him and punched him, and when he would not respond to anything, they went to kill him. However, when they tried to stab him with a spear, the spear shattered, and the entire tribe was taken aback.
Judas then began to speak in their language, boldly presenting the Gospel in their language. Several hundred people came to faith that day. After this, the King of the tribe set Judas to be instructed by his daughter, Nirmala, in the ways of the people of the island, while Judas would then teach them of the secrets of God and of the lands of the west. Judas and Nirmala slowly began to feel affection in each other, though they never sinned. The men from the ship were accepted into the community, and they took wives from among the women of the land.
Slowly, the tribe became a kingdom, using some of the administrative concepts that Judas had taught them to expand, while Judas gained both respect and wisdom. Judas and Nirmala eventually were married. Harta, the king, became the closest of friend to Judas, and Judas helped him in his old age. Eventually, Saint Harta died in his sleep at a ripe old age, and a unified church (for before this, the tribesmen had been worshiping wherever they could, either at the Church of the Crossing or at each other's homes) was built on the site of his death.
However, Teguh, the King's firstborn son and successor to the throne, was a wicked man. He had a harem of dozens of young girls, and overall was an abomination to the lord not seen since Nero or Manasseh. He began to persecute the Christians, demanding that they join his cult or die. Furthermore, from the refugees that had fled the kingdom, many were received by rival kingdoms, who began to take ideas as their own. This was around the time of Paul's imprisonment in Spain. [67 AD] However, this was not all bad, as the refugees began to boldly preach the Gospel to the entire island, and God was glorified.
Teguh separated Judas and Nirmala, and banished him to a tall mountain that had been known by the people to be inhabited by unclean spirits. However, God was with Judas, and the spirits of the mountain went out from there. Anyone who wanted to be wise went to his mountain to learn, and God blessed him.
Judas died an old man. Even though he never saw his family again, he died a happy man, knowing that he would see his family again. He walked with God, and was gifted knowledge that no other moral after Enoch knew.
The caravan of ships drugged across the sea. The tide had stopped, and thus the ship had to simply follow the currents. God sent a massive rain to soothe their thirst, as they had not drank in many days. During all of this time, Thomas and Judas preached to everyone on the ships, and eventually everyone on the ships became followers of the Way. After about a week and a half, a wild wind came. Judas had been on a ship apart from Thomas, to finish the lashing on said ship. Judas' ship was blown off course, and into a completely unknown water.
(Thomas eventually landed in a small kingdom in the south of India, where he became very popular and respected. The rest of Thomas' life, and all that had happened, are recorded in the Book of the Acts of Saint Thomas the Apostle.)
After many weeks, Judas and his ship was starving. Most of the people on the ship despaired, as there was no land around and it was not uncommon for ships to disappear in these waters. Judas, however, remained faithful, and prayed for food. It began to rain fish, and they all began to praise God for it.
Not long after this, the ship finally found land, and they were able to land there. The ship was turned into a small Church, which to this day still stands.
One day, while Judas was foraging for food, a band of natives captured him, since they had saw the shipwreck. They presented Judas to the king of the local tribe. Judas could not speak the language, and soon the natives began to be violent. They jostled him and punched him, and when he would not respond to anything, they went to kill him. However, when they tried to stab him with a spear, the spear shattered, and the entire tribe was taken aback.
Judas then began to speak in their language, boldly presenting the Gospel in their language. Several hundred people came to faith that day. After this, the King of the tribe set Judas to be instructed by his daughter, Nirmala, in the ways of the people of the island, while Judas would then teach them of the secrets of God and of the lands of the west. Judas and Nirmala slowly began to feel affection in each other, though they never sinned. The men from the ship were accepted into the community, and they took wives from among the women of the land.
Slowly, the tribe became a kingdom, using some of the administrative concepts that Judas had taught them to expand, while Judas gained both respect and wisdom. Judas and Nirmala eventually were married. Harta, the king, became the closest of friend to Judas, and Judas helped him in his old age. Eventually, Saint Harta died in his sleep at a ripe old age, and a unified church (for before this, the tribesmen had been worshiping wherever they could, either at the Church of the Crossing or at each other's homes) was built on the site of his death.
However, Teguh, the King's firstborn son and successor to the throne, was a wicked man. He had a harem of dozens of young girls, and overall was an abomination to the lord not seen since Nero or Manasseh. He began to persecute the Christians, demanding that they join his cult or die. Furthermore, from the refugees that had fled the kingdom, many were received by rival kingdoms, who began to take ideas as their own. This was around the time of Paul's imprisonment in Spain. [67 AD] However, this was not all bad, as the refugees began to boldly preach the Gospel to the entire island, and God was glorified.
Teguh separated Judas and Nirmala, and banished him to a tall mountain that had been known by the people to be inhabited by unclean spirits. However, God was with Judas, and the spirits of the mountain went out from there. Anyone who wanted to be wise went to his mountain to learn, and God blessed him.
Judas died an old man. Even though he never saw his family again, he died a happy man, knowing that he would see his family again. He walked with God, and was gifted knowledge that no other moral after Enoch knew.
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Northern Sumatra. The "Island" is probably only known for being an island because of contacts with the rest of the island, plus it mostly refers to either the coasts or the whole thing depending on how you read it.
Thanks! I figured that it is much more of an open scenario than having Judas go to China or Japan. Plus, it means that it gives the whole area a solid step up that OTL it didn't get until Islam.
Speaking of the West, I am not sure how much I am gonna delve into Europe. I am planning on having Rome falling apart by having a Numic (Roman) pagan zealot end up being emperor, and making life hell for Druids, Jews, Christians, and anyone else that won't believe in the Roman gods. Also, Islam probably won't be a thing, if just because Muhammad's great great grandfather is either dead, not the same person, or Christian. Arabia will still get overpopulation, however, which will be... problematic eventually.
Minor nitpick on what was otherwise an amazing post. However, I don't think the author of *Acts, or any translator, would use the term "because Christian." At the point that the Gospels and Acts were written, Christians saw themselves very much in the Jewish context (even if they, like the followers of Paul said that Christ the was end result of the Law, they still saw themselves as following the Jewish God and, as a result, members of the Jewish community), and would have had no conception of themselves as 'Christians.' Followers of Christ, yes, but not Christians. That was a later development.
I think "eventually everyone on the ships became followers of Christ" or of "all on the ships accepted Christ" would be more likely phrases.
Also, Judas got married? Okay, that's huge!
Didn't you have him have a wife in the first chapter? If so, you just gave polygamy official sanction in the Church. Even if I misread that about him having an initial wife, you just made it so that Bishops will marry. Since Bishops were considered to be the heirs to the Apostles, any Bishop that wants to marry will point to this passage as official sanction that marriage is okay. This is going to have huge ramifications for Christianity. Nice! 
I sensed that area was specifically OTL Aceh Darussalam; the people living there, I thought, was Gayo.
There will be no "England" like otl's. On the other hand, you are right about the Protestant Reformation. "New English Version" and "Holy English Version" are kind of just placeholders
It would be very interesting if ttl developed a version of the "lost tribes" idea, that each church corresponding to each apostle also corresponds to a tribe of Israel. Not that there would be any truth to it, but it would be interesting in the far future nonetheless.
The world you are creating is fascinating, can't wait to read more.
The world you are creating is fascinating, can't wait to read more.