Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Here's development, with this we lose russia as the obvious future bad guy, and cast the TL's future into a bit more doubt. of course, that's not to say that alexander seems at all like a closet liberal, actually he brings stalin to mind for me. it looks more to me like he's pursuing trade and development as a means of national strengthening. of course, growing up in an open russia, his heir might be different...
 

Glen

Moderator
Here's development,

Yep, Russia was never meant to stay the Hermit Kingdom forever!

with this we lose russia as the obvious future bad guy, and cast the TL's future into a bit more doubt.

Yep.

of course, that's not to say that alexander seems at all like a closet liberal,

Yeah, not really, more a pragmatist.

actually he brings stalin to mind for me.

Stalin!?!? That's quite the leap!!

it looks more to me like he's pursuing trade and development as a means of national strengthening.

Yes, this is definitely a big goal of his.

of course, growing up in an open russia, his heir might be different...

He might be indeed!
 
What makes you say that?

Most probably - two parts poor recollection of the course of updates over the last few years(!) and one part wild guesswork as to what is coming. I noted that the representatives of the first International Malthusian Conference seemed to represent a substantial portion of those countries who were the opponents of Korsgaardism and if indeed Malthusianism does become the political force we were guessing at (I confess that I am writing this before reading your last few updates so I may look a fool already) then one would naturally draw the conclusion that those countries who have distanced themselves from Korgaardism after the war are now looking like the ones best set up to resist the dark allure of Malthusianism.

Indeed, though I'd still like to see what makes you think that the center is transitory.

See above. Entirely guesswork, I assure you.

I suppose one might think that, but remember that this is a history of centuries. Are you telling me that there is some nation who's prevailing politics you've agreed with over a period of over a hundred years!

Why, Britain of course. I'm one of the most blindly loyal apologists on this forum when I want to be :) I'm not so enthusiastic about British politics post-WW1, but I see the logic in the vast majority of British political and socio-economic decisions from the time of the Plantagenets through to the end of the Victorian age. Of course I see the faults too, but overall I agree with the way that OTL British history has played out over the last 1000 years.
 
Stalin!?!? That's quite the leap!!!

It's not everything of course, primarily it was the modernization plans, add to that the setting aside of ideological purity to treat with the outside world and strengthen his nation, and the sudden change in policy upon his assuption of power. all this together and he evokes a bit of stalin's style, or at least I think so.
 

Glen

Moderator
The earliest European contact with the Hawaiians was through the British, a relationship that would gradually grow over the years. While initially discovered by the British in the late 18th century, one of the first permanent contacts with the West were missionaries from the new Deist Christian denominations developing in the USA. Deist missionaries were treated cordially, but had little impact on the Hawaiians. Contacts with Russia were the next in line of European contacts, leading to a trading site in Kauii, but otherwise had little impact. The British were the most successful, however, returning to the islands with Anglican and Methodist missionaries who made a real impact on the royalty and peoples of Hawaii, converting many to Protestantism. The British also persuaded the Hawaiians to revoke he Russian trading mission in Kauii after collusion between the leaders of Kauii and the Russians to overthrow the rule of Oahu was discovered. In the 1840s, with the rise of the Dominion of Southern American and the establishment of trading ports in China, the British found the utility of a weystation more to the north of greater importance. The British and Hawaiians reached an accord, leading to the leasing of the Harbors of Oahu to the British Royal Navy and making Hawaii a protectorate of the British Empire.

The Flag of the Kingdom of Hawaii was clearly inspired by that of the British East India Company, but instead of 13 alternating stripes, it had 9, representing the nine islands of Hawaii.

Yeah, I wasn't clear on it but what is the Political fate of Hawaii?

As you can see above, it's a British protectorate.
 

Glen

Moderator
Most probably - two parts poor recollection of the course of updates over the last few years(!) and one part wild guesswork as to what is coming. I noted that the representatives of the first International Malthusian Conference seemed to represent a substantial portion of those countries who were the opponents of Korsgaardism and if indeed Malthusianism does become the political force we were guessing at (I confess that I am writing this before reading your last few updates so I may look a fool already) then one would naturally draw the conclusion that those countries who have distanced themselves from Korgaardism after the war are now looking like the ones best set up to resist the dark allure of Malthusianism.

Fair enough, though the truth, as usual, is somewhat more complicated than it may seem....

See above. Entirely guesswork, I assure you.

I wouldn't say that the center is transitory, but it is differently centered, and the directions of the spectrum are along different axes.

Why, Britain of course. I'm one of the most blindly loyal apologists on this forum when I want to be :) I'm not so enthusiastic about British politics post-WW1, but I see the logic in the vast majority of British political and socio-economic decisions from the time of the Plantagenets through to the end of the Victorian age. Of course I see the faults too, but overall I agree with the way that OTL British history has played out over the last 1000 years.

Well, as a dedicated Anglophile I have a hard time arguing that point with you, though I can point to a number of ill decisions as well.
 

Glen

Moderator
It's not everything of course, primarily it was the modernization plans, add to that the setting aside of ideological purity to treat with the outside world and strengthen his nation, and the sudden change in policy upon his assuption of power. all this together and he evokes a bit of stalin's style, or at least I think so.

Those are fair points, true, though I could make a lot of the same about King Juan Carlos of Spain on his ascension to power.
 
Those are fair points, true, though I could make a lot of the same about King Juan Carlos of Spain on his ascension to power.

certainly, there are hundreds if not thousands of apt comparisons to be made, stalin was just the first place I landed.
 

Glen

Moderator
18976_zoom.jpg


Empress Elizabeth, second British sovereign of that name, exceeded her long lived namesake and reached her Golden Jubilee in 1907 at the spry age of 71. The British Empire abounded with celebrations of fifty years of the Second Elizabethan Age which had shown so much progress and success for the British Hegemony. Southerners and Australians composed songs inspired by her reign, while the Scottish named a new single malt Scotch in her honor.

It may not have seemed possible, but the Empire, adorned by several new Dominions, celebrated even more fervently the Queen-Empress' Diamond Jubilee a decade later in 1917, when a frail but still sparkling Empress Elizabeth was 81 years old. Whole generations of the Empire could not recall another sovereign, in their memory nor that of their parents, or even grandparents. It seemed that the sun set neither on the British Empire, nor their grandmotherly Empress.

DiamondJubilee-595x389.jpg
 

Glen

Moderator
Well dear readers we are over 4500 posts with over 950000 views. Quite the reason for jubilation!
 
I know this is a pretty old thing to comment on, but do you think Minnesota would be better named Superior? All the states east of it are named after Great Lakes, and the Minnesota River isn't all that important in the greater scheme of things, so Minnesota isn't the most likely name to be given it in my opinion.

Also, I'm interested in how these Malthusians will affect history. I imagine you have a relatively Malthusian outlook on life, but I may be mistaken.
 

Glen

Moderator
I know this is a pretty old thing to comment on, but do you think Minnesota would be better named Superior? All the states east of it are named after Great Lakes, and the Minnesota River isn't all that important in the greater scheme of things, so Minnesota isn't the most likely name to be given it in my opinion.

You make a fair point, but really it is the Gitchegumee that is named after Lake Superior, and having an actual state named Superior might be taken amiss, don't you think? Therefore I believe this is a case where the OTL name is more likely, but I appreciate your thoughts, and I like the way you think!:D

Also, I'm interested in how these Malthusians will affect history.

Indeed....they will make their mark upon it, I assure you.

I imagine you have a relatively Malthusian outlook on life, but I may be mistaken.

I am not a Malthusian. But then again, I have the advantage of knowing about the Green Revolution. These early 20th century Malthusians see the skyrocketing life expectancies brought about by knowledge of germ theory, sanitation, and antibiotics, but without the benefit of knowing about the possibilities of the Green Revolution in terms of magnifying food production. Its an understandable mistake on their part - let's all get some popcorn and see how it plays out, eh?:D:D
 
I am not a Malthusian. But then again, I have the advantage of knowing about the Green Revolution. These early 20th century Malthusians see the skyrocketing life expectancies brought about by knowledge of germ theory, sanitation, and antibiotics, but without the benefit of knowing about the possibilities of the Green Revolution in terms of magnifying food production. Its an understandable mistake on their part - let's all get some popcorn and see how it plays out, eh?:D:D

It could be that a Green Revolution revolts them even further. Here they are trying to maintain a certain level of population, then suddenly the thought of vast abunance of food equating to even more people could bring about stronger feelings on the issue. We may even see the early tree huggers join with the Malthusians to curtail population growth, in order to preserve nature.
 
I got this idea that the Malthusians promotes all sorts of scientific research into things that actually sparks the green revolution. They fear the resources are limited and promote things like exploring living under ground or under the sea as compliments to reducing birth numbers. They could argue that there is no new frontiers on earth so space exploration have to be promoted while there is still time.

To prepare us for overpopulation they could launch theories and ideas on how to achieve sustainable utilization of natural resources like fish, foresting etc. claiming it’s the only infinite resources. They could promote water, wind and solar power decades in advance saying mineral oil and coal are limited resources. To recycle waist and metals would be only logical to them and promoting self-sufficiency and autarky as far as possible is fundamental to the idea of sustainability. They simply don’t do it out of environmental concerns but out of fear of overpopulation.

I don’t think Jules Verne existed in tis TL in the same way as IOTL but Malthusians would latch on to a Sci-Fi writer like that and dream of the new “unexplored frontiers” that could “save humanity” until the population control brought things into balance.

It could be that its them who launches the green revolution as a “last effort to stave off the looming catastrophe of overpopulation”.
 

Glen

Moderator
It could be that a Green Revolution revolts them even further. Here they are trying to maintain a certain level of population, then suddenly the thought of vast abunance of food equating to even more people could bring about stronger feelings on the issue. We may even see the early tree huggers join with the Malthusians to curtail population growth, in order to preserve nature.

An interesting thought that might be both an extension and perversion of classic Malthusianism.
 

Glen

Moderator
I got this idea that the Malthusians promotes all sorts of scientific research into things that actually sparks the green revolution. They fear the resources are limited and promote things like exploring living under ground or under the sea as compliments to reducing birth numbers. They could argue that there is no new frontiers on earth so space exploration have to be promoted while there is still time.

What an intriguing thought, especially for the Dutch to look at underwater living!:D

To prepare us for overpopulation they could launch theories and ideas on how to achieve sustainable utilization of natural resources like fish, foresting etc. claiming it’s the only infinite resources.

Note that these too would be seen to be under Malthusian constraints (rightly or wrongly), and would not be considered infinite (renewable, yes, but not infinite).

They could promote water, wind and solar power decades in advance saying mineral oil and coal are limited resources.

Now this is more likely to be up their alley!

To recycle waist and metals would be only logical to them and promoting self-sufficiency and autarky as far as possible is fundamental to the idea of sustainability. They simply don’t do it out of environmental concerns but out of fear of overpopulation.

Mostly, mostly, I imagine.

I don’t think Jules Verne existed in this TL in the same way as IOTL

True.

but Malthusians would latch on to a Sci-Fi writer like that and dream of the new “unexplored frontiers” that could “save humanity” until the population control brought things into balance.

Maybe, maybe not. Malthusians are a bit more 'down to earth' on such matters so far...

It could be that its them who launches the green revolution as a “last effort to stave off the looming catastrophe of overpopulation”.

Now that would be an ironic turn of events, wouldn't it....
 
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