DBWI: The Turtledove TL-191 Discussion Thread.

[patb01]

What I found interesting was using a more pacifist Sgt York as the stand in for Gordon Mcsweeney, and even he didn't believe the heroics of that man splitting his actions in to two wars, with two seperate soldiers.

But then again, there's a reason why his lower decorations were eventually reevaluated. And why I did my Conscription time at Camp Mcsweeney. Did feel sorry for the one private who was actually named Mcsweeney, in basic, he never heard the end of it.

 

[Marklin]

Back on topic, we should have to give Turtledove credit. Without him, no one would care about Worlds of If. Case in point, anybody here remember Philip K. Dick's "The Man in the High Castle?" You know, the book where Featherston wins the Second Great War and takes place in British occupied New York? No, I thought not.[/QUOTE]

that was a good book. but it had alot of focus on mythological references and not alot of info on the entente-ruled world.

 

[vesica]

He doesnt do a bad job, but writing a novel where Canada somehow resists US offensives with the Confederacy is WAY too much of a stretch. Dont get me wrong i love fiction as much as the next AHer but a world where the Marine Base i live on here in Halifax i just couldn't imagine.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

One intriguing thing I found about the TL-191 world was the Philippines. OK, they were dominated by the US, but in that work they were gradually being made more independent.

Point is, it's quite a contrast to OTL Philippines. Even though Japan's Empire in SE Asia is gone, decades of colonisation and 'Nipponicisation' initiatives mean that the Philippines are still part of the Home Islands (and are heavily exploited for their resources - those plus Karafuto oil are what let Japan remain a naval and industrial power)...and Filipino culture and language is effectively gone. A lot of Filipino-descended intellectuals in America and Europe have said that Tagalog is a dead language in the Philippines themselves, because everyone speaks Japanese.

In TL-191, though, there could be an independent Philippines if he ever wrote a post-war novel. I wonder what it'd be like...probably fairly rich, given all the metal deposits.

 

[Marklin]

analogues

i have noticed alot of analogues between the tl 191 books and OTL. but i may just not be very good at noticing parallels, but does anyone know who are the analogues for: seige of leningrad, battle of britain, fall of france, ATL britain, ATL poland, ATL spain, ATL china, and ATL ukraine? i am curious as to what these are analogues to?

 

[Cire]

Well, I've just finished reading 'In at the Death' which concludes Harry Turtledove's TL-191 series, where Lee's special order 191 were lost by the Confederates and found by US troops, resulting in McClellan's victory at Antietam and an eventual victory for the US in the American Civil War (OTL War of Succession).

I'm just wondering what people thought of it?

Generally, I have to say I enjoyed it, but I thought I'd comment on a few things.

It seemed a bit wierd having Britain and the US as allies in the two World Wars, and that combined with there being no CSA meant North America was reasonably untouched by war. I found that striking, and I wonder if Turtledove's history was 'better' than ours? OK there were still many casualties of war, but perhaps not as many. 6 million Jews were murdered rather than 5 or 6 million blacks, so that evens things up, but in TL-191, there were only two Atomic Bombs (Super Bombs) dropped, compared to OTL's 6.

It tickled me that Franklin D Roosevelt, Secretary of War (TL 191, POTUS) seemed to be very friendly with Winston Churchill, but given the scenario that had unfolded, it was plausible. Stalin in Russia seems to have been a brutal b*stard though - I wonder how long that alliance would have lasted had the series continued.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, generally it was a good read about their rise to power in Germany, but it's blatantly just a re-painted version of Featherstone and the Freedom Party. I mean, Turtledove even called the Nazi's founder, Anton Drexler! Hmm. I wonder what inspired him there? What they did to the Jews was pretty horrific and essential the same as what happened to blacks in the CSA, although the fact that the Nazis took over most of Europe and were able to ship Jews from all over the continent was very chilling.

Anyway, I'm going on about the big point here, what did you all think?
I'm particularly interested to hear your opinions of the different characters.

I liked the fact that there were so many from all over the world, and how their paths would cross every now and then.

I really enjoyed In at the Death, and for me the two characters that seemed the most genuine and believable were Jerry Dover, and Clarence Potter. On the other hand, Jake Featherston seemed to be nothing but a predictable character based entirely upon tired clichés (at least Hitler liked dogs) and I get the feeling that Franklin Roosevelt was based almost entirely upon W.C. Fields. However, the book really picked up the pace in action, compared to previous novels, in the series, and there were a few unexpected twists such as Texas breaking away from the CS. My only regret is that the book didn't cover more of the postwar occupation, and it would be interesting to see how someone like Potter manages to survive during the years immediately after the war.