Challenge: Most likely map after Nazi Victory

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by DominusNovus, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. DominusNovus Humbled by Fate

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    For the mappers out there, this challenge is to create what you feel the most likely map of at least Europe would look like after the Nazis win WWII. Interpret this as you want. And I want the most plausible thing, so no Third Reich stretching from Brittany to Vladivostok to San Fransisco to New York to London.

    POD can be any time after, say 1936. So, the war can be completely different. Whatever you think leads to the most plausible Nazi victory, suffice that they are not allied to France, UK, or US, and that the war is against one of the other major powers (the aforementioned or Russia).

    Go.
     
  2. Susano Banned

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  3. Locke Hardcore Packers Fan since '11

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    My half-assed and sad attempt....

    Red is the Greater German Reich and its allies and territories...

    Blue is the United States of North America

    And torqouis is USNA allies/British Commonwealth.

    Basically, France is much more suucesful (more than OTL) and the Germans have enough forces to surround the Allies at Dunkirk and destroy them without the fear of being overextended and cut off. So, the Brits are forced to accept a cease-fire, saving lots of German equipment and pilots for Russia. Because of this overwhelming victory, Turkey allies with the Nazis, allowing Nazi troops to quickly capture the Caucuases and aku, and eventually pummeling the Soviets into submission after Stalin is killed in an air raid on Moscow. Soviet forces contineu to fight on until 1946, but are finally destroyed. Yet the Nazis have sustained too many casualties to sustain the campaign past the Urals....By 1945, Japan has been defeated, since Germany neevr declared wra on the US, so the US devoted all of its attention to Japan. (well, most of it). By current year 1960, a Cold War is raging, with the USNA-led PATO (Pacific Treaty Organization) dominating one side and the Nazi-led Axis dominating another. Both sides have developed nuclear weapons, and there are thousands that have been built.

    WorldOutline600.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2007
  4. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Did this one a while ago - it's loosely based on something Turtledove wrote in which the Wehrmacht launch a coup under Manstein in 1943,
    make near-status quo ante bellum peace with the Soviets, then turn around and eject the Allies from Italy and defeat Overlord,
    leading to the fall of Churchill's government and peace.

    Not your classical Nazi Victory but the closest, I think, they could have got in OTL without a pre-1939 POD.

    COS Europe 1960.GIF
     
  5. AirshipArmada No body can predict the past

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    My ignorance-based map from a couple of years back.

    [​IMG]

    Hitler dies > no war with USA > Barbarosa delayed a bit > things eventually settled at negotiation table.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2007
  6. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    To be honest, we can't really predict if the Nazis would decide to annex more states directly to the Reich or not, it seemed fairly random in some cases...
     
  7. Tom_NUFC Well-Known Member

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    Take no notice of the borders within the Greater German Reich (they're present day borders that I was too lazy to eliminate/re-draw :D )

    P.O.D: Halifax becomes PM rather than Churchill, and accepts Hitler's peace agreement to guarantee Britain and her Empire in return for keeping out of European affairs. Britain to cede Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus, and to return German colonies lost by the Treaty of Versailles. In return Germany will guarantee the British Empire and fight any invading force.

    France will also be allowed her independence, though loses Alsace-Lorraine.

    Events in the Far East see the severance of the German-Japanese axis.
    Britain and Germany join forces and fight Japan in Asia.

    euronazimap.PNG
     
  8. Tocomocho My other car is a steam tank.

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    Europe, 1950.

    [​IMG]

    France decides to fight on. In order to break the bloody stalemate with France Italy and Germany attack Switherland and use it as a platform to open another front in France. A very much harsher peace wih France, that practically dismantles her, is signed in 1942. Yet this doesn't end the war as British and Free French forces are still fighting in the Mediterranean, were Hitler decides to put his attention and ultimately wins. There isn't war with the USA nor with the USSR, though something bad is going to happen soon to the later.
     
  9. Admiral Matt Member

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    And even beyond that, how do we know how far they would have followed through on their extermination and settlement plans, when the only consistent policy on the issue would die with Hitler?
     
  10. NomadicSky Banned

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    Cool map Susano I'm guessing Isreal exist because the Germans sent the Jewish people to Palestine rather than murder them.

    Otherwise I don't see how it could exist in a nazi world.
     
  11. Rockingham Banned

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    [​IMG]
    Don't know what the POD is. Nazi victory in Barbarosa, one way or another, perhaps.

    germany1.gif
     
  12. Max Sinister Retired Myriad Club Member

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    Nice map. Just Belgium might get the Artois; and Moscow and Volgograd seem to be at the wrong site.
     
  13. Admiral Matt Member

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    Hrm.... I wish I had Hitler's War Aims on hand. Believe it or not, everyone seems to be going too easy on France. Also, it is extremely doubtful that Bohemia-Moravia would have avoided annexation. The Netherlands would probably have been annexed as well, but as with most things Nazi.... it isn't a given.
     
  14. Analytical Engine Make America British Again!

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    Despite the fact that Bohemia-Moravia is listed as an annexed territory. :D

    And that the Netherlands, and Scandinavia are listed as part of the Greater German Reich. :p
     
  15. Admiral Matt Member

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    Well, the point is that the Czechs were getting the same treatment as the Poles, and the Netherlands different (short term) treatment from the Scandinavians. So either Poland should be the same "annexed nation" color as the Protectorate, or both should have disappeared into the Reich.

    And as I said, the incorporation of the Netherlands into the Reich was not a given in the long run. Belgium less so, and Norway and Sweden are actually quite doubtful. To have them et up in 1946 is a tad silly. More to the point though, it verges on ludicrous to expect the Nazis to have ever actually annexed the Reichskommisariats Moskau or Kaukasus. Unless by "annexed territory" he means reichskommisariats, which at the least shouldn't be put in the same category as Bohemia-Moravia under any circumstances.
     
  16. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Nice, just two things: it's Grossdeutsches Reich not Grossdeutschen Reiches (AFAIK) and why the hell would Italy get hold of the Straits and there be a fascist Turkey, especially as this map is only 1946? :confused:
     
  17. Wendell Wendell

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    Strasburg is misplaced.
     
  18. Thande Toujours Phrais

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    Take it up with the person who made the base map then :rolleyes:
     
  19. Wendell Wendell

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    It's where one finds Luxembourg.
     
  20. Admiral Matt Member

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    Also, in the long run Hitler was planning to rename the Reich as the Grossgermanischen Reich. Roughly "Greater Germanic Empire." The name change was intended to accompany the expansion of the state beyond strictly German areas to include other Aryan peoples. In theory this meant Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and the "racially adjusted" areas of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Bohemia-Moravia. In practice it would have included the latter two certainly, and probably Holland and Denmark as well, but annexing one's allies is.... politically difficult, even at the best of times.