Challenge: more conflict between Monarchism and Fascism

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Strategos' Risk, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    The fascists, despite being ultra-reactionary, largely despised the aristocratic and royalist classes they replaced, seeing as they failed their nations in WWI. How could there have been a more pro-monarchist, pro-Ancien Regime movement in Germany and other nations against rising fascist powers?
     
  2. azander12 Revolutionary Avocado

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    Have the fascists focus more on the left-wing side of their heritage. For example, if the Nazis had embraced the socialist part of National Socialism more, and the reactionary part less, the German military aristocracy would have been unlikely to have been so accommodating to them. Same with National Syndicalism in Italy.
     
  3. Wolfpaw Banned

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    Pretty much this. Get the Strassers or street brawlers like Röhm in power and there will be far less accommodation with the Junkers and the industrial cartel owners.

    Same goes for Mussolini, who was under a great deal of pressure from the regional ras to take a more syndicalist line, which he halfheartedly attempted for all of two years before reverting control to Establishment elites and chiefs loyal to him personally.

    The Italian Fascists actually became extremely anti-monarchist and anti-aristocrat after Mussolini was kicked out since now the Italian Establishment was fair game.
     
  4. Uriel undead young cold warrior

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    IMO the relations between monarchist-reactionary groups and fascists depended on the position the reactionaries were in.

    Where they were in power and all was fine or at least bearable from their point of view, there they did try to keep the fascists from power. This happend for example in Romenia or Austria.

    On the other hand, where the reactionaries/monarchists were desperate, enraged, and unable to change the situation on their own they tended to ally with the fascists: Germany, France, Spain

    Italy is a case of its own, where Mussollini took power in an phase of confusion, on an rather bonapartist (something for everyone) agenda.
     
  5. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    I have to say considering alternate fates for Austria(-Hungary) in the WWII era was the basis for this thread. So did the Austrian monarchy detest Austrofascism? Or did they detest Austrian National Socialism? Because I'm still interested in a Dollfuss vs. Hitler scenarion, atop the surviving Austria-Hungary vs. Hitler scenario.

    http://www.avalanchepress.com/ships_of_the_empire.php
    http://www.avalanchepress.com/Imperial_Planes.php
    http://www.avalanchepress.com/imperial_preview.php
    http://www.avalanchepress.com/imperial_preview2.php
    http://www.avalanchepress.com/History_Never.php?mode=print
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  6. wolf_brother Banned

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    The problem here is that fascists work with traditional conservatives against both individual liberalism and class-based socialism. So if you want some sort of Monarchist vs Fascist conflict you'll either need to a) turn the monarchy towards either liberalism or socialism, or b) remove monarchy as the traditional stronghold of conservatives. The first I could see done in say, Britain, and the second in a Germany where the Junkers hold less power than they did IOTL after the Great War. Outside of Europe a Brazil where the monarchy isn't toppled, which was in and of itself a fairly random and quasi-ASB event even IOTL, could see both a liberal monarch and conservatives who rally around capitalist barons of industry.
     
  7. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    Didn't Hitler and the Nazis hate royals, though?
     
  8. wolf_brother Banned

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    That's debatable, considering how much the Nazis worked with the Junkers and even the deposed Hohenzollerns up to, and even after, assuming complete control.
     
  9. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

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    This probably isn't close to what you're looking for, but -- I've been conceiving of a failed ARW-TL where progress in the 19th Century* is split bw Social Monarchism ("social harmony through social hierarchy") and Bourgeoius Republicanism (rule by the fit citizen class), leading to a 20th Century synthesis that actually looks a lot like OTL Fascism...

    Just thought I'd mention it.

    *OTL, it was bw Liberalism and Socialism
     
  10. Spengler Free AG!

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    Not really. The nazis really only had it in for royal who spoke out against them.
     
  11. Strategos' Risk Oriental Orientalist

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    Apocryphal:

    The other plans are quite amusing to check out as well, in that they seem tabloidesque and probably did not happen.