The heck?No self-respecting Romanophile would forget this battle!It's the one battle the Roman Empire truly went downhill and never recovered.
Back Goes the Sand: Byzantine Victory at Hieromyax (Yarmouk)
- Thread starter Martian Historian
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- byzantine empire islam persia
Dude, not an expert of this era. Hence why i have never heard of this, and am looking forward to more.
FTFYThe Roman Empire was going downhill since Adrianople
But Yarmouk was the point of no return.It was from this point onwards that it will never become a great power again.Despite the reconquests of the Macedonian Dynasty,I still don't see the ERE as a great power,much less the so-called 'Komnenian Restoration'.It was just a strong regional power.The Roman Empire was going downhill since Frigidus.
If the Empire didn't lose this battle,it's entirely possible that it could have went for the West again after it recovered,just like Justinian did.
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The Roman Empire was going downhill since Teutoberg.
Just getting in on the action.
PS, with a Byzantine victory, it should be the Battle of Hieromyax.
Okay, cool. I've changed the title to reflect that.
I also just read your Byzantine Republic timeline. Pretty good, even if I find the politics behind the change unlikely.
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If it hadn't been founded, it never would have fallen!The Roman Empire was going downhill since Romulus
Ehh... from what I've seen, the theme system was developed because the Byzantines didn't have enough manpower and needed to stop relying on mercenaries. In OTL it was because they lost Syria and Africa, ITTL they saw that they needed a larger army because of the expenses on hiring mercenaries and the loss of central Italy. To me, the Theme system was inevitable after the war with the Sassanids.
4) The Crimean War
July 637
The Sassanid government attacks a rebel stronghold in Central Persia with nearly 100,000 men taking part in the battle. The battle lasts for 12 days without either side securing a decisive victory, the government eventually broke off when their supplies began to run low and 10,000 more rebels arrived. Casualties were heavy, with both sides having over 20,000 dead. The rebels were unable to follow up on the government's withdrawal because of their own high casualties.
The Caliphate continues to whittle away at independent tribes in the Arabian Peninsula, bringing more of the region under their control and stabilizing their homeland.
A land dispute between farmers in the Byzantine Theme of Kartli and Abkhazia leads to a skirmish where the Thematic soldiers quickly seize the disputed land. The territory was only 40 acres, but the effectiveness of the Thematic army was shown for the first time.
August 637
The Bulgarians capture Theodoro and ransack the city, very few of the Gothic citizens remained after the slaughter. With the fall of the city the Gothic Kingdom collapsed and Bulgaria took over its possessions.
Violence breaks out in Somalia after Copts protest paying the Jizya tax. During the crackdown on the demonstration a dozen Coptic nobles were arrested and 1,000 Coptic civilians were killed. The Kingdom of Axum sends a complaint over the situation to the Caliphate.
The Tang dynasty in China enters the Tarim Basin, taking it from the Göktürkish Khaganate with amazing efficiency. The Chinese begin expanding the Great Wall to their new territory. They also open diplomatic talks with the Kangar Khanate about tribute.
The rebel armies in Persia begin marching toward Ctesiphon. The government prepares an ambush near the Mesopotamian border. The rebels hear about this and split up and avoid the trap, marching into Mesopotamia unmolested.
A third of the Byzantine Themes are fully functional. These Themes are: Carthage, Naples, Venezia, Constantinople, Alexandria, Cherson, Palestine, Syria, Armenia, and Kartli. The rest of the Themes were still organizing the government around the Strategos and distributing land amongst the soldiers.
September 637
Conflict breaks out between a Muslim and a Zoroastrian tribe in the north Arabian Peninsula over the theft of a camel.
In response to the Axumite complaint, the Caliphate invades an Axumite trading partner and levies an unusually large jizya tax on the Copts in their realm. The Axumites counter by establishing a league of Coptic tribes and kingdoms, called the Coptic League, in a defensive alliance against the Caliphate. The League sent representatives to the Byzantine Empire to try to gain support. Heraclius denied the Empire's formal entry into the League, but pledged military assistance if attacked by the Caliphate. The Basileus also sent a warning to the Caliph to stop the unequal treatment of the Coptic Christians, or the Treaty of Damascus would be considered forfeit.
The Bulgarians storm into Cherson and begin sieging the capital of the Theme, Cherson. The Strategos rallies his army in Theodosia and prepares to send the Bulgarians back, but first sends word to nearby Strategoi and Heraclius.
The Kangar Khanate and Tang dynasty reach an agreement:
Thematic armies from Pontus and Moesia arrive in Theodosia, the combined armies march toward Cherson to drive out the Bulgarians. For a week, skirmishes occurred to the East and North of Cherson, with the Bulgarians being steadily pushed backward closer to the city, which was now being reinforced from the sea courtesy of Heraclius himself. On the third week of the campaign, the Bulgarian supply lines were cut off and the Byzantines cornered the Bulgarians between Cherson and their army. The Bulgarians soon began to feel the strain of the lack of supply and many soldiers surrendered to the Byzantines. On the fifth week of the campaign the last Bulgarians surrendered. Of the 30,000 Bulgarians that invaded the Theme of Cherson only 15,000 came back, 8,000 were killed, and 7,000 were captured. Not only did the Bulgarians lose half their army, they also lost their newly won possessions in Crimea. The Bulgarians sued for an official peace.
The Sassanid government army that had been preparing to ambush the rebel army began a hasty march toward Ctesiphon to save it from the approaching rebel armies. The Southern rebel army surrounded Uballa and other nearby cities and put them under siege. The Northern rebel army continued to press into Mesopotamia and approached Ctesiphon.
The Sassanid government attacks a rebel stronghold in Central Persia with nearly 100,000 men taking part in the battle. The battle lasts for 12 days without either side securing a decisive victory, the government eventually broke off when their supplies began to run low and 10,000 more rebels arrived. Casualties were heavy, with both sides having over 20,000 dead. The rebels were unable to follow up on the government's withdrawal because of their own high casualties.
The Caliphate continues to whittle away at independent tribes in the Arabian Peninsula, bringing more of the region under their control and stabilizing their homeland.
A land dispute between farmers in the Byzantine Theme of Kartli and Abkhazia leads to a skirmish where the Thematic soldiers quickly seize the disputed land. The territory was only 40 acres, but the effectiveness of the Thematic army was shown for the first time.
August 637
The Bulgarians capture Theodoro and ransack the city, very few of the Gothic citizens remained after the slaughter. With the fall of the city the Gothic Kingdom collapsed and Bulgaria took over its possessions.
Violence breaks out in Somalia after Copts protest paying the Jizya tax. During the crackdown on the demonstration a dozen Coptic nobles were arrested and 1,000 Coptic civilians were killed. The Kingdom of Axum sends a complaint over the situation to the Caliphate.
The Tang dynasty in China enters the Tarim Basin, taking it from the Göktürkish Khaganate with amazing efficiency. The Chinese begin expanding the Great Wall to their new territory. They also open diplomatic talks with the Kangar Khanate about tribute.
The rebel armies in Persia begin marching toward Ctesiphon. The government prepares an ambush near the Mesopotamian border. The rebels hear about this and split up and avoid the trap, marching into Mesopotamia unmolested.
A third of the Byzantine Themes are fully functional. These Themes are: Carthage, Naples, Venezia, Constantinople, Alexandria, Cherson, Palestine, Syria, Armenia, and Kartli. The rest of the Themes were still organizing the government around the Strategos and distributing land amongst the soldiers.
September 637
Conflict breaks out between a Muslim and a Zoroastrian tribe in the north Arabian Peninsula over the theft of a camel.
In response to the Axumite complaint, the Caliphate invades an Axumite trading partner and levies an unusually large jizya tax on the Copts in their realm. The Axumites counter by establishing a league of Coptic tribes and kingdoms, called the Coptic League, in a defensive alliance against the Caliphate. The League sent representatives to the Byzantine Empire to try to gain support. Heraclius denied the Empire's formal entry into the League, but pledged military assistance if attacked by the Caliphate. The Basileus also sent a warning to the Caliph to stop the unequal treatment of the Coptic Christians, or the Treaty of Damascus would be considered forfeit.
The Bulgarians storm into Cherson and begin sieging the capital of the Theme, Cherson. The Strategos rallies his army in Theodosia and prepares to send the Bulgarians back, but first sends word to nearby Strategoi and Heraclius.
The Kangar Khanate and Tang dynasty reach an agreement:
- The Kangar will protect Chinese merchants on the Silk Road.
- The Kangar will send military assistance when called upon.
- The Kangar Khanate will pay the Tang 10,000 gold coins as tribute.
- The Tang will recognize the Kangar Khanate’s possessions.
- The Tang will allow free trade in the Tarim Basin with the Kangar Khanate.
- Both parties agree to a non-aggression pact.
Thematic armies from Pontus and Moesia arrive in Theodosia, the combined armies march toward Cherson to drive out the Bulgarians. For a week, skirmishes occurred to the East and North of Cherson, with the Bulgarians being steadily pushed backward closer to the city, which was now being reinforced from the sea courtesy of Heraclius himself. On the third week of the campaign, the Bulgarian supply lines were cut off and the Byzantines cornered the Bulgarians between Cherson and their army. The Bulgarians soon began to feel the strain of the lack of supply and many soldiers surrendered to the Byzantines. On the fifth week of the campaign the last Bulgarians surrendered. Of the 30,000 Bulgarians that invaded the Theme of Cherson only 15,000 came back, 8,000 were killed, and 7,000 were captured. Not only did the Bulgarians lose half their army, they also lost their newly won possessions in Crimea. The Bulgarians sued for an official peace.
The Sassanid government army that had been preparing to ambush the rebel army began a hasty march toward Ctesiphon to save it from the approaching rebel armies. The Southern rebel army surrounded Uballa and other nearby cities and put them under siege. The Northern rebel army continued to press into Mesopotamia and approached Ctesiphon.
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5) Treaty of Phanagoria
November 637
The Bulgarians and Byzantines meet in Phanagoria. They quickly create a treaty to end the war.
The Sassanid rebels overrun the defenders of Uballa and other nearby cities, taking control of the entire region. Their northern army spots the government’s army a few miles from Ctesiphon, minor skirmishes occur and the rebels disengage to wait for their southern army to regroup with them.
Muslim and Byzantine traders expand their influence in India and Indonesia. A Byzantine diplomatic envoy land in Hainan, establishing official relations between the two countries.
December 637
More Muslim tribes fall under the sway of the Caliphate, many swear fealty in exchange for military support. The Caliphate invades Swahili city states, having the same results as their invasion of Somalia.
The Khazars invade Bulgaria, hoping to capitalize on their recent defeat at the hands of the Byzantines. As their army stampedes toward Phanagoria they loot the towns on the way, slowing the army down and giving the Bulgarians time to prepare.
Basileus Heraclius calls for a religious council of all Christians in Rosetta, hoping to gain support for his Monothelite doctrine on Christ to bring the Copts closer to the Empire. The Byzantines also expand their influence over Christian Arabs to counter the Caliphate’s growing power.
January 638
The Bulgarian and Khazar armies meet in an open field near the Don river. Skirmishes lasted for three days until the real battle commenced. For nearly four hours straight cavalry and infantry clashed until a young Bulgarian noble lead an infantry charge through the center of the Khazar lines, leading to a rout of the Khazar army.
Christians from all over the world meet in Rosetta. Heraclius lead the discussion on the nature of the will of Jesus. As discussions and arguments went on, it became clear of the political division amongst the massive amounts of people. The Byzantines, Armenians, and Aksumites, and by extension the Coptic League, came on the side of the Monothelite doctrine. The Nestorians and Western church were against the new doctrine, but for different reasons leading to disputes amongst them. The talks were still ongoing at the end of the month.
The Sassanid rebel armies meet up near Kermanshah, where they rest and devise a plan of action on the government. During their rest, the government forces surrounded the city and put it under siege. The rebels made many attempts to break the government lines, and were many times successful, but were unable to capitalize on the openings before the government was able to fill in the gaps. The rebels were forced to dig in and heavily ration their supplies until reinforcements arrived.
AN
Well, tensions are rising in the Red Sea and Arabian Peninsula. Hope you guys liked it. I would really appreciate feedback, especially on your thoughts on the Religious Council, as I'm no Theologian. Thanks!
The Bulgarians and Byzantines meet in Phanagoria. They quickly create a treaty to end the war.
- The Bulgarians will cede the Crimean Peninsula to the Byzantines.
- The Bulgarians will pay 10,000 gold solidi as tribute.
- The Bulgarians will pay 5,000 gold solidi per year as reparations for the duration of the truce.
- Both parties agree to a five year truce.
The Sassanid rebels overrun the defenders of Uballa and other nearby cities, taking control of the entire region. Their northern army spots the government’s army a few miles from Ctesiphon, minor skirmishes occur and the rebels disengage to wait for their southern army to regroup with them.
Muslim and Byzantine traders expand their influence in India and Indonesia. A Byzantine diplomatic envoy land in Hainan, establishing official relations between the two countries.
December 637
More Muslim tribes fall under the sway of the Caliphate, many swear fealty in exchange for military support. The Caliphate invades Swahili city states, having the same results as their invasion of Somalia.
The Khazars invade Bulgaria, hoping to capitalize on their recent defeat at the hands of the Byzantines. As their army stampedes toward Phanagoria they loot the towns on the way, slowing the army down and giving the Bulgarians time to prepare.
Basileus Heraclius calls for a religious council of all Christians in Rosetta, hoping to gain support for his Monothelite doctrine on Christ to bring the Copts closer to the Empire. The Byzantines also expand their influence over Christian Arabs to counter the Caliphate’s growing power.
January 638
The Bulgarian and Khazar armies meet in an open field near the Don river. Skirmishes lasted for three days until the real battle commenced. For nearly four hours straight cavalry and infantry clashed until a young Bulgarian noble lead an infantry charge through the center of the Khazar lines, leading to a rout of the Khazar army.
Christians from all over the world meet in Rosetta. Heraclius lead the discussion on the nature of the will of Jesus. As discussions and arguments went on, it became clear of the political division amongst the massive amounts of people. The Byzantines, Armenians, and Aksumites, and by extension the Coptic League, came on the side of the Monothelite doctrine. The Nestorians and Western church were against the new doctrine, but for different reasons leading to disputes amongst them. The talks were still ongoing at the end of the month.
The Sassanid rebel armies meet up near Kermanshah, where they rest and devise a plan of action on the government. During their rest, the government forces surrounded the city and put it under siege. The rebels made many attempts to break the government lines, and were many times successful, but were unable to capitalize on the openings before the government was able to fill in the gaps. The rebels were forced to dig in and heavily ration their supplies until reinforcements arrived.
AN
Well, tensions are rising in the Red Sea and Arabian Peninsula. Hope you guys liked it. I would really appreciate feedback, especially on your thoughts on the Religious Council, as I'm no Theologian. Thanks!
PhilippeO
Banned
it is a bit Strange that Caliphate took hardline position against Axum, Axum is the nation where Muhammad send some Muslims when their position in Mecca is threatened. There are many writings from Muhammad time that praise Axum. more diplomatic solution should be possible. demanding Copts in Muslim territory to pay jizya or serve in Muslim army would solve problem and collect tax without it looks Caliphate harassing Christians. Note : why there are Coptic nobles in Somalia ? and protesting ? if they accepted and recognized by Muslims as noble there should be treaty about payment including Jizya. if they are foreigner / merchant then they are protesting is strange, taxing foreigner / merchant should be normal practice.
Chinese tribute : Chinese usually grant 'gift' to tribute-payer, the gift often greater than tribute itself. Kangar should receive something from Chinese. establishment of trade town ? right to send merchant to Chinese capital ? 100.000 bolts of silk ? even if Kangar in far weaker military position, they should still receive 'something'.
Sassanite rebels should be granted a name for easier reading. Khurasanite ? Mazdakite ? Mihranite ? even name of their anti-Shah would do. Shapurite ?
Chinese tribute : Chinese usually grant 'gift' to tribute-payer, the gift often greater than tribute itself. Kangar should receive something from Chinese. establishment of trade town ? right to send merchant to Chinese capital ? 100.000 bolts of silk ? even if Kangar in far weaker military position, they should still receive 'something'.
Sassanite rebels should be granted a name for easier reading. Khurasanite ? Mazdakite ? Mihranite ? even name of their anti-Shah would do. Shapurite ?
What the whole conflict was that is leading to this council is basically a conflict between Monothelitism and Christology. Now I may get this wrong but Monothelitism is basically a more reformed version of the Monophysitism which says that Jesus is literally just God rather than the Son of God and being human, which is what most Christians today believe. Monothelitism is the doctrine that states that Christ has two natures (Man and God) but only has one will where everything Jesus did was a direct action of God or is solely the will of God through Jesus's actions. At the time much of the Eastern Churches, including the Byzantines promoted Monothelitism. Christology is the modern interpretation of Jesus and one that the West and Rome took upon back then where Jesus has not only two natures but two wills, those two wills being his beliefs and ideas in teachings, and those of God that Jesus spreads through his teachings. I know it's really confusing but that's the gist of it.
What happened OTL was that the Byzantine Emperor supported Monothelitism from the 620's to 681 where in the Third Council of Constantinople it was declared a heresy by the majority of Churches, including the Orthodox one. Here I think that the Byzantines might go the route of Christology because of the fact that since Islam is contained in Arabia, there is no need to have a common agreement with the Coptics and Armenians due to the fact that Byzantium still controls these territories and can directly influence its will and ideals of Christiannity upon the populace. I also think that the Emperor might go this roue in order to avoid conflict with the Pope and have a unified Christian stance so that way when Byzantium unified Europe like in Old Rome, then there won't be any heavy theological conflict.
What happened OTL was that the Byzantine Emperor supported Monothelitism from the 620's to 681 where in the Third Council of Constantinople it was declared a heresy by the majority of Churches, including the Orthodox one. Here I think that the Byzantines might go the route of Christology because of the fact that since Islam is contained in Arabia, there is no need to have a common agreement with the Coptics and Armenians due to the fact that Byzantium still controls these territories and can directly influence its will and ideals of Christiannity upon the populace. I also think that the Emperor might go this roue in order to avoid conflict with the Pope and have a unified Christian stance so that way when Byzantium unified Europe like in Old Rome, then there won't be any heavy theological conflict.