Autumn in America: A TL-191 Continuation
- Thread starter Hexcron
- Start date
MaxGerke01
Banned
Well as I said earlier thats also not what the books indicate what was planned. and what was being offered.They were to be brought back into the American fold with essentially no questions asked. Also if this was really the plan doesnt it make it even more likely that the Confederates wont be reabsorbed into the US easily or ever ? They are after all human and at some point humans begin to resent what they see as unfair treatment.Confederates will hate Americans from the outset and nothing about this would make them good Americans. Neiher will welcoming them back/forcing them back with open arms.Their needs to be a middle ground at most.
I think everyone agrees that the books make 0 sense and especially that idea?
MaxGerke01
Banned
Compared to Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania apparently not as they didnt annex East Germany.They didnt annex Poland either BUT they closely controlled it as a puppet state as they did throughout Eastern Europe.I dont understand why the USA wouldnt be expected to do the same with at least part of the CSA ? Annex perhaps some of the adjacent parts like Kentucky etc that have come to be seen or never stopped being seen as US areas(ie Alscase -Lorraine)like Kentucky and keep most of the rest as puppets.Isnt that the closest example to what the Soviets did after WW2?
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MaxGerke01
Banned
Well you cant have the books without establishing an independent CSA so as unlikely as that might be you cant hold that against them because they dont exist without it. But yes other than that the way the books have the US act regarding the CSA after the war doesnt make sense to me.Its set to happen far too quickly and it ignores the fact that the American public would likely be mostly against it and pretty firmly against it at that. TL191 1945 is not the same atmosphere and place as OTL 1865. What was acceptable and indeed what worked in the latter would likely not in the former.
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Faeelin
Banned
[/QUOTE]
::Asks about Prussia, the perceived heartland of Nazism::
::Gets an answer that ignores Prussia::
::Asks about Prussia, the perceived heartland of Nazism::
::Gets an answer that ignores Prussia::
Faeelin
Banned
Was it no questions asked? Morrell imposes equality via bayonet, and the US tries a lot of the Confederate elite for war crimes.
MaxGerke01
Banned
I thought Prussia was part of East Germany? Where Berlin is right ? That wasnt annexed by the Soviet Union just controlled as a puppet except for West Berlin ?
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MaxGerke01
Banned
The Confederate society would have to be turned inside out culturally and every other way in order to make them American,Its much more than just changing names on the map.Also how do you get other Americans to see them as Americans ? It will take much more than just saying so. What it also takes is time.Probably 2 or 3 generations at the minimum so new statehood in the 1990s at the earliest. Thats when a majority of the people who lived with and fought an independent CSA and lived in it have started shuffling off the mortal coil.
Faeelin
Banned
Konigsberg, the heartland of Prussia, is still called Kalinigrad today. The Soviet Union annexed it and ethnically cleansed it, just as they did Breslau and Danzig, other German cities that were the heart of Prussia.
I thought Breslau and Danzig were given to Poland and only the northern part of East Prussia went to the USSR with the other half going to Poland.
Faeelin
Banned
Yes, you are correct, they ethnically cleansed the territories and gave them to Poland as part of the destruction of the Prussian state. Sorry for not making that clear.
MaxGerke01
Banned
I think my implications for the Confederate society are far more awful.But I guess Im thinking they would just be more stiff necked and inflexible about the whole thing. Does anyone really think they wouldnt?
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MaxGerke01
Banned
But that was only part of it not all of it right ? Most of eastern Germany they left un-annexed as a puppet state ? So why couldnt the USA do the same with the CSA ? Why would it have to be all or nothing? The Soviets did that as a combination of revenge and to not make Germany a threat anymore without trying to wipe out Germany by absorbing it into the Soviet Union.Why does the USA in TL191 1945 want to reabsorb all of the CSA when it doesnt feel that it is or should be part of the USA anymore ?
I know you want to do an epic dunk on America or whatever but your repeated assertions that the US would reenact the Indian Removals post-1945 and with a bleeding-heart socialist party in power half the time are laughable.
On a wider note, I think your haunting this thread just to refuse to engage with the OP's work on its own terms and shit on Turtledove's work continually in a thread that's fundamentally devoted to it and that's not going to change is mean-spirited. We get it, you think "Turtledove's timeline is shit and boring" (in your own words) and you're welcome to think that, but this thread is already about Southern Victory. It's not gonna become a Years of Rice and Salt thread, or a Man in the High Castle thread. How is it kind or constructive to fight over the same fictional stipulation this TL is based on for over a dozen pages?
He's making a reference to a major current political event. I don't think the mods would appreciate that sort of conversation here.
