Archimedes Invents Gunpowder

Let's say that during the Roman siege of Syracuse Archimedes began to experiment with different ingredients to make weapons to be used against the Romans. He begins the process of making gunpowder and writes down the ingredients and instructions, but it is cut short because he is killed somehow by the Romans. I have begun a timeline, please tell me what you think.

212 B.C.- The Roman siege of Syracuse is successful and Roman forces storm the city. Archimedes is killed in unclear circumstances. In his study a number of mathematical and scientific writings were found along with blueprints for his inventions. His writings end up being scattered across the empire and are of little interest except for the war machines at the time.

324 A.D.- Pappus of Alexandria, a Greek mathematician who researched Archimedes and his mathematical theories, discoveries a copy of a manuscript that Archimedes wrote. On it are the ingredients for gunpowder and instructions on how to make it. Pappus follows the instructions, and while trying to figure out its purpose accidentally drops a candle into the gunpowder, which injures him severely and nearly kills him. His wounds progress him towards death and he dictates to his scribe (absent from the experiment) the ingredients for and procedure for making gunpowder. He dies soon after.

325 A.D.- The scribe of Pappus brings Pappus’ discovery to the rest of the scientific community in Alexandria, and soon many more experiments are conducted more cautiously. The scientists soon adapt Ctesibus’ cannon to work with the gunpowder instead of using air compression. It attracts the attention of local Roman army officers and word of its potential military uses spread across the Empire until it reaches the ears of Constantine, the Emperor.

326 A.D.- The cannon is brought before the Emperor Constantine’s court to demonstrate its power and military potential. The Emperor is pleased with it and orders it to be produced all over the empire and to be added to its legions.

328 A.D.- The cannon sees its first military use against Frankish raiders on the Rhine frontier. Although not particularly accurate its main use comes as a shock weapon and after experiencing casualties the Franks retreat. As word of this new weapon spreads among the Germanic tribes and as more raids are repulsed in this manner the amount of raids and incursions into Roman territory rapidly decreases.

332 A.D.- With legions equipped with cannons Constantine and his son Constantine II successfully campaign against the Goths winning outstanding victories with combinations of the legions’ superiority and the shock uses of the cannon. The Goths flee from what they call the “fiery death.”

 
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Wasn't there a "history" with incindiaries leading up to GP OTL?

IIRC the Chinese made use of saltpeter and sulfur in incindearies to cause crazy scary sparking. GP was just finding the right ratios.

Could GP evolve from similar Greek Fire type experiments?
 
Pappus follows the instructions, and while trying to figure out its purpose accidentally drops a candle into the gunpowder, which sets off an explosion that nearly kills him.
Gunpowder needs to be confined in order to explode.
Much more Likely Papus would be badly burned and suffering form Smoke inhalation.
The scientists soon adapt Ctesibus’ cannon to work with the gunpowder instead of using air compression. It attracts the attention of local Roman army officers and word of its potential military uses spread across the Empire until it reaches the ears of Constantine, the Emperor.
Still think it more likly the Romans would use Bastislas and Scopions to flung [lit] barrels of Powder at the opposing troops.
This would play merry h** with charging Calvary.
 
Interesting idea. I think, thou, that you should let pass more years from the(re)discovery of gunpowder to the realization of a working cannon. In OTL the first fireweapon were used in early 14th century, but they were unreliable till the late 15th. Anyway if the romans had the gunpowder and understood its military applications, they would have certainly tried to develop new weapons and use them at the best of their ability. I think that your timeline could work better if you have gunpowder rediscovered during the reign of Trajan, or even earlier.
 
Interesting idea. I think, thou, that you should let pass more years from the(re)discovery of gunpowder to the realization of a working cannon. In OTL the first fireweapon were used in early 14th century, but they were unreliable till the late 15th. Anyway if the romans had the gunpowder and understood its military applications, they would have certainly tried to develop new weapons and use them at the best of their ability. I think that your timeline could work better if you have gunpowder rediscovered during the reign of Trajan, or even earlier.

I chose the reign of Constantine not because of Constantine but because of Pappus, because he was the earliest researcher of Archimedes I know of, most of the rest were either Medieval or Byzantine. Because I couldn't find any others and I wanted this to be as realistic as possible I chose him because he could have come across such a document bundled with mathematic ones.

Still think it more likly the Romans would use Bastislas and Scopions to flung [lit] barrels of Powder at the opposing troops.
This would play merry h** with charging Calvary.

I chose Ctesibius' cannon because since the TL begins in Alexandria the scientists there would most likely have knowledge of Ctesibius (resident of Alexandria) and his air pressure cannon.
 
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Continuation, please post more suggestions and comments:

334 A.D.- Sarmatian slaves rebel across the northern side of the Danube, and the Sarmatians call for the help of the Romans. After a stunning Roman victory where casualties were minimal but the Sarmatians fled at the sight and sound of the “fiery death.”

337 A.D.- The Sasssanid Empire attacks the Roman Empire across the eastern frontier under the leadership of Shapur II. Most of the attacks are repulsed by Roman legions and cannon but the Sassanids do succeed in taking some fortresses and outposts. Constantine of natural causes dies not long after the invasion begins. The Empire is distributed amongst his sons, Constantine II ruling Gaul, Britain, and Spain, Constans ruling Italy and Africa, and Constantius II ruling the east.

339 A.D.- A Greek scientist in Massilia invents the earliest version of the Arquebus, and it is the first portable firearm. It is kept a secret but eventually it reaches the ears of Constantine II, who wishes to use it in his armies but keeps it a secret from his brothers.

340 A.D.- After refusing to relinquish his guardianship of Constans, Constantine II marched into Italy against his brother. Using his new weapon the Arquebus and the cannon he marches into Italy where Constantine II and Constans faced off at Aquileia, where Constantine II won a resounding victory and Constans died in battle. Constantine becomes undisputed Emperor of the west and is vastly supported.

341-343 A.D.- Constantine II campaigns against the Franks who are defeated and forced back across the Rhine. Constantine II mandates that every Rhine fortification be equipped with cannon and in some cases the new Arquebus. He also campaigns against the Britons, Scots, and Picts in Britain with success and has outposts in Hadrian’s Wall fortified with cannon. In 343 Constantine II builds a column in Rome that depicts his victory against his brother as well as his campaigns against barbarians (including his 332 victory against the Goths) as well as the cannon and the Arquebus. During this time Constantius II and the eastern Empire also adopt the Arquebus and use it against the Sassanids.

344 A.D.- The Romans are victorious over the Persians when they attempt to capture the fortress of Singara. The Persians do however capture a Roman cannon and a few Arquebus which they begin to try to copy it.
 
I chose the reign of Constantine not because of Constantine but because of Pappus, because he was the earliest researcher of Archimedes I know of, most of the rest were either Medieval or Byzantine. Because I couldn't find any others and I wanted this to be as realistic as possible I chose him because he could have come across such a document bundled with mathematic ones.
I understand the need for Pappus, but the rate of technological evolution is too quick. ITTL we have cannons and arquebus after few years, when it took more of a century IOTL.
There isn't a lot a difference in the metallurgical know-how between the imperial romans and the late middle age, but some decisive advancement were made, especially in the bronze castings. By the way the best cannons were made of bronze since it was quite difficult to cast iron properly and all the steel was forged steel.
The use of ballistae and scorpiones with "explosive darts" is quite realistic, since it' easier to use a tried and tested technology, rather a completely new one.
You could use, besides, some early type of rockets as schock weapon. They can be pretty easy to construct. The kingdom of Mysore used rough rockets of this kind against the british in the late 18th century with good results (unfortunely I don't have any reference handy, now).
Finally have a look at a book, De Rebus Bellicis (I think can be finded online). It was written il the 4th/5th century and detailed many "wonder weapons", which were never actually used, but I think they could find a new use with black powder...
icon12.gif
 
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I understand the need for Pappus, but the rate of technological evolution is too quick. ITTL we have cannons and arquebus after few years, when it took more of a century IOTL.
There isn't a lot a difference in the metallurgical know-how between the imperial romans and the late middle age, but some decisive advancement were made, especially in the bronze castings. By the way the best cannons were made of bronze since it was quite difficult to cast iron properly and all the steel was forged steel.
The use of ballistae and scorpiones with "explosive darts" is quite realistic, since it' easier to use a tried and tested technology, rather a completely new one.
You could use, besides, some early type of rockets as schock weapon. They can be pretty easy to construct. The kingdom of Mysore used rough rockets of this kind against the british in the late 18th century with good results (unfortunely I don't have any reference handy, now).
Finally have a look at a book, De Re Militaria (I think can be finded online). It was written il the 4th/5th century and detailed many "wonder weapons", which were never actually used, but I think they could find a new use with black powder...
icon12.gif

Well it can be argued that Roman technology only developed rapidly under necessity, so the production of new gunpowder weapons would be rushed in order to combat the barbarians and the Sassanids. It can also be argued that it took longer for it to develop in Europe because it was more of a novelty and it was not really needed. I will try to incorporate rockets into it as well, if I am not mistaken didn't the Romans invent some type of firework or rocket?
 
I have begun a story to accompany this TL (both of them will probably go up till around the 1500s):

Prologue

212 B.C.​

Archimedes was busy huddling over his many works scattered across his small study. He was penning an obscure formula for what he believed could be a useful weapon against the Roman besiegers, and many weapons he had invented to use against them before. There was great rancor in the streets, so Archimedes looked outside of his window. The Romans themselves had entered the city! A hastily thrown together band of militia and hoplites tried to hold back the Romans as they ran free in the city celebrating in the spoils of conquest. Archimedes gathered all of his works, put them away, and sat down on the floor so he was not to be seen by the Romans. Growing bored after waiting for a long time, he got his papers back out and began writing again. Without Archimedes even noticing a Roman soldier had walked into his humble abode. The soldier got his attention and read a letter from the general Marcellus himself, which told Archimedes to immediately report to the headquarters of the general. Archimedes promptly told the soldier that he was busy with his work and that the soldier should go away. Enraged by the attitude of the great thinker, the soldier retrieved his gladius and killed Archimedes in a single stab to the chest. Archimedes collapsed to the ground without any last words. Realizing what he had done the guard fled out into the street leaving the body of Archimedes on the floor of his study.

Part I-Discovery

Mid-Summer 324 A.D.

Pappus strolled down the walkway accompanied by Hermodorus, his loyal scribe and son. His mother was long dead from typhoid fever. Alexandria, his city, was not what it once was. It was clearly decaying and so were its great thinkers and ideas. Christianity was rapidly spreading across the empire and in many cases it slowed scientific advancement with its new theological message. The Christians were everywhere it seemed these days, thought Pappus in a negative manner. They were different from the Jews who kept to themselves and went about their business, the Christians were dedicated to their religion spreading and they were open and honest about it. Although not what it was, the Brucheum was still magnificent and Pappus was glad he lived there. After he and Hermodorus bought some wine and bread in the marketplace they returned to the feeble apartment they shared. After sharing a brief meal Pappus and Hermodorus got straight back to work, which today was examining some second hand copies of some of the ancient writings of the great Archimedes, a fellow Greek to Pappus. He had happened upon the copies by a good friend of his in Massilia whom he corresponded with once every two years or so. Pappus began reading notes for Hermodorus to take about Archimedes’ spiral. He turned to the next page in the notes, and abruptly stopped reading when he realized he was reading the ingredients for some kind of recipe. He said them quietly to himself: “Saltpeter, brimstone (sulfur), and charcoal…” Hermodorus inquired if he should write it down and Pappus replied that he would like to have time to study alone, and Hermodorus promptly left and walked around the Brucheum. Pappus kept repeating the ingredients over and over again to himself, trying to make sense of it. He left the apartment and walked down to the marketplace. Finding brimstone was relatively easy, saltpeter was much harder but Pappus managed to track it down, and charcoal did not take that long. He returned to his apartment and mixed the three together to make a powder. Pappus stared at it, not knowing what do next. All the paper he found had was the ingredients and a primitive diagram of a long tube that Pappus did not understand. He mixed it with water and everything else he could think of. It grew dark and Hermodorus came back. Pappus told his son to fetch a list of ingredients from the market that he wanted to mix. He lighted a candle and sat down at his desk, with the strange powder right beside him. Pappus reached for his pen and he knocked down the candle, which landed in the strange power. What happened next was hard for Pappus to ever describe for the rest of his days, which were few. He ended up receiving severe burns to his hands, face, and torso. Hermodorus found the mathematician on the floor writhing as he returned with the ingredients, and he immediately dropped them and rushed to his father. Hermodorus summoned a doctor as soon as possible who did all he could with Roman medical technology. Over the next few days Pappus was confined to his bed, and he dictated to his son the ingredients of this new powder and how it was activated by fire. Pappus spent the rest of his days dictating his mathematical studies and final work to Hermodorus, which became know as Mathematicae Collectiones. Pappus died in his sleep on the ides of August (the 13th).

Part II-The Word Spreads

Autumn 324 A.D.

After his father passed away Hermodorus inherited their small house and his fathers small coffers of wealth. He caught the attention of his fathers small group of friends, a mix of mathematicians, philosophers, and scientists. A good friend of his father, Felix, also a native of Alexandria, was heavily interested in the natural sciences and was intrigued by the experiment that killed Pappus. With the assistance of Hermodorus, they both experimented in Felix’s small study. They were much more cautious in these experiments and named this substance “fire powder.” They were still perplexed by the long tube depicted on the copy of Archimedes’ original manuscript. After days of trying to figure it out Hermodorus came up with an idea when he was about to go to sleep. As a young boy he had studied under a Greek tutor named Nikolaos, who had focused particularly on the great thinkers of Alexandria. One such thinker that Hermodorus learned about was Ctesibius, who had invented an air-pressure cannon. Hermodorus assumed that Archimedes must have had knowledge of this cannon, and he must have figured that by using this mildly explosive powder with the cannon an object could be propelled from it. The next morning Hermodorus proposed this idea to Felix, who was enthusiastic about it. For three months they did nothing but draw out on paper how this technology would work and eventually they proposed it to the local smithy. He informed them it would be easier to cast out of bronze instead of iron, which they had originally planned. After a couple months their specimen was ready, and they departed to a desert field on the outskirts of the city, accompanied by slaves to carry the cannon, the smithy and many of Pappus’ friends. The whole project had eaten up much of the wealth of Hermodorus and Felix, and their hopes rode upon the success of this experiment. They had also commissioned the smithy to build a small iron ball that would fit inside the cannon, which they brought with them. After the slaves had set down the cannon and its ball Hermodorus and Felix proceeded to start the experiment by lighting the cannon. After backing away a large sound was heard and the ball soared off into the distance. Because they had not covered their ears many attending the experiment had minor permanent hearing damage. Hermodorus ran a good distance to find the cannonball, which was wedged inside a tree. Hermodorus and Felix were shocked by how successful this experiment was, and they returned back to Alexandria celebrating with much wine and food. Over the course of the next few weeks the scientific community became enthralled with word of this newly rediscovered powder and its potential uses, such as in the new cannon. It eventually reached the attention of the Vicarius of the Diocese of Egypt. He demanded that Felix and Hermodorus immediately come see him and demonstrate the power of this new weapon.

 
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Well it can be argued that Roman technology only developed rapidly under necessity, so the production of new gunpowder weapons would be rushed in order to combat the barbarians and the Sassanids.

I agree that the romans could have well developed such weapons, but here we are talking about the invention of a new kind of weapon, something that always take times. From the blueprint to the finished model is quite a long road. There are all the little (and not so little) lemons to solve and often you have to trash several times the original projects before having a working prototype.

Then you should reflect about the tactics for the fireweapons. Are your romans going for mass fire like Maurice of Nassau or will they favor precision over rate of fire?
Combinating fireweapons, infantry and light cavalry is not a trivial task! Your romans could recuperate the macedonian sarissa (it was actually attempted IOT) and develop a tercio like formation.
Romans, besides, were quite pragmatic, so it' s logic to suppose that they could invent the standardization of calibres and the paper cartridge quikly. After all much of the legions equipmente was already "mass produced".

It can also be argued that it took longer for it to develop in Europe because it was more of a novelty and it was not really needed.

Questionable. In the late middle age war was pratically endemic in the whole Europe (Hundreth year war, anyone?). You can argue, thou, that the roman empire could have used far more resources for the develpment, than the various medieval powers.
Remenber, anyway, that the real problems of the empire were the drastic economic crisis and the internal instability. The barbarians were just the icing on the cake.

Finally consider that IOT the widespread use of fireweapons spelled the death of the heavily armoured knight.
ITTL it's very likely that the infantry will remain the "Queen of battle", relegating cavalry to scout, mounted infantry and fast charge functions (more or less like during the thirty years war). This means that a the figure of the knight and the knightly mentality will never be developed, with HUGE repercussions.

Really good story, by the way.;)
 
Well it can be argued that Roman technology only developed rapidly under necessity, so the production of new gunpowder weapons would be rushed in order to combat the barbarians and the Sassanids. It can also be argued that it took longer for it to develop in Europe because it was more of a novelty and it was not really needed.

What, China wasn't under pressure from outside when it developed gunpowder? Even with Turkic hordes approaching from the west and north, warlords periodically fighting amongst themselves, and wars being fought with Korea and states to the south it still took China hundreds of years to go from the discovery of blackpowder to cannon. In between those two things, mind you, the Chinese went through fireworks, then bomb-loaded oxen, bombs flung by catapult, and plenty of other novel creations before perfecting the metal casting necessary for cannon.

And as mentioned above, the Europeans weren't lacking in need for new weapons in the medieval period. It still took them centuries of research and accidental discoveries to go from "arrow blasted out of a clay pot" to "crude cannon" to "corned powder" to "actually decently strong cannon" to "hand cannon."

I will try to incorporate rockets into it as well, if I am not mistaken didn't the Romans invent some type of firework or rocket?

Byzantine Greek Fire? Unrelated development; sort of kind of similar to napalm. Used more in naval fights than anything else.
 
I agree that the romans could have well developed such weapons, but here we are talking about the invention of a new kind of weapon, something that always take times. From the blueprint to the finished model is quite a long road. There are all the little (and not so little) lemons to solve and often you have to trash several times the original projects before having a working prototype.

Yes, I understand where you are coming from with how little time it takes to develop these, but this is ALL of advanced Europe working on an imperial-funded and heavily back project, by medieval times Europe was fragmented so progress slowed down heavily.

Then you should reflect about the tactics for the fireweapons. Are your romans going for mass fire like Maurice of Nassau or will they favor precision over rate of fire?
Combinating fireweapons, infantry and light cavalry is not a trivial task! Your romans could recuperate the macedonian sarissa (it was actually attempted IOT) and develop a tercio like formation.
Romans, besides, were quite pragmatic, so it' s logic to suppose that they could invent the standardization of calibres and the paper cartridge quikly. After all much of the legions equipmente was already "mass produced".

Well since this technology is pretty new were I am now in the timeline the Romans have not quite learned how to exploit properly, or how quite they want to use it. Right now the cannon is a mostly defensive weapon to guard the frontiers against raiders and the Sassanids, while Arquebus is mainly an offensive weapon.

As far new formations, they will probably emerge soon in the timeline, maybe even a testudo hybrid with the Arquebus!

And on mass production yes I have thought about this and I think this will part of the reason why the Romans will eventually have massive amounts of the same firearms and cannon, as well as rockets or other technology that is bound to emerge. (I am thinking that the rockets will be particularly effective against groups like the Goths).

Finally consider that IOT the widespread use of fireweapons spelled the death of the heavily armoured knight.
ITTL it's very likely that the infantry will remain the "Queen of battle", relegating cavalry to scout, mounted infantry and fast charge functions (more or less like during the thirty years war). This means that a the figure of the knight and the knightly mentality will never be developed, with HUGE repercussions.

Yes this a heavy part of timeline, because the barbarians don't have much means to mass produce or produce at all this new gunpowder technology, so against the barbarians the Romans will still widely use calvary. However these new weapons could stop groups like the Huns in their tracks because their main weapon was calvary.

On the thought of the knight mentality never developing that is very true, because knights at large were pretty independent, so this would mean very identical and regimented warfare, and it would also mean that feudalism would probably not develop.

What, China wasn't under pressure from outside when it developed gunpowder? Even with Turkic hordes approaching from the west and north, warlords periodically fighting amongst themselves, and wars being fought with Korea and states to the south it still took China hundreds of years to go from the discovery of blackpowder to cannon. In between those two things, mind you, the Chinese went through fireworks, then bomb-loaded oxen, bombs flung by catapult, and plenty of other novel creations before perfecting the metal casting necessary for cannon.

Well keep in mind that gunpowder in OTL was initially discovered by Taoist monks, who had little idea of what it could be used for. I think an important idea to keep in mind is that the cannon was invented in Alexandria, so Alexandrian scientists would have knowledge of this, so it would not take that long for them to put 2 and 2 together.

Now I want to see Byzantines with machine guns. :D

I might just be able to do that. :D
 
this is ALL of advanced Europe working on an imperial-funded and heavily back project, by medieval times Europe was fragmented so progress slowed down heavily.

Well, maybe. But consider that they would try to go in a complete new direction. I think romans would surely developed firearms quikly than IOT during the middle ages, but not so quikly.

As for tactics, they are really important. In the beginning artillery was used mainly during sieges, it took over a century to have a reliable light artillery that could be used on the battlefield (well, reliable for the times...).
Matchlocks have to be used en masse to obtain a good result, since they were quite innacurate on the long distance.
Remember, thou, that you need time to develop tactic like those used in the modern age. Many of the things that seem obvious to got an incredible amount of time to be created.

As for the Huns, they were actually one of the most mobile enemy of Rome ever. Even if your legions were armed with matchlocks, the Huns could easily avoid them, just to attack by surprise later.

Byzantine Greek Fire? Unrelated development; sort of kind of similar to napalm. Used more in naval fights than anything else.

Greek fire was in effect something similar to napal, alas the secret of its composition is lost. It was released through a siphon, thus we could consider it the flamethrower ancestor.
 
Continuation of the story, all comments are welcome:

Part III-Before the Emperor

Spring 325 A.D.


Felix and Hermodorus walked into the villa of the Vicarius. It was very luxurious, with some of the largest gardens Hermodorus had ever seen. They were shown to a small table in the gardens where slaves brought them small appetizers and wine. Felix, a somewhat eccentric, was very excited to meet the Vicarius, having always lived in semi-poverty because in the modern Christian world, science was not as important as it once was, so he had never met such a powerful and famous person before. Hermodorus was just nervous, hopeful the governor was not angry with them for conducting such experiments. After around ten minutes he emerged in his toga and greeted them. After greetings were said they sat down and discussed this new invention. They had brought their basic blueprints for it and they also explained this new fire powder. The Vicarius was very pleased, and he said that one day this would be the most powerful weapon in the Roman army, which drove the two scientists speechless. He continued that they should and would see the Emperor Constantine the Great himself and show him this new weapon. The next week after gathering their personal objects and clothing the two scientists and an entourage from Alexandria set off to Rome. They sailed for many days, stopping in Sicilia for supplies and continuing until they reached Ostia, the gateway for all sea travel to Rome. They were brought by personal envoy to the court of the Constantine, and they traveled through the streets of the capital. Hermodorus and Felix had never been to the famous city and heart of the empire before, and they were amazed by the architectural splendor and how many people there were. The villa where Constantine was staying, one of his many villas, was just south of Rome. After being coached how to present themselves to the emperor and how the proceedings were to happen they entered the villa. Although this was not inside Rome itself all of the emperor’s personal advisors and his guards were present, along with performers and others. After proper greetings were given by both parties, Felix and Hermodorus explained their new discovery of fire powder and its use in their new invention. Constantine, known for his seriousness, sat stone faced throughout the entire spectacle. The two scientists became quite nervous as there was no emotion on Constantine’s face as they continued to explain it. When they were finished, there was complete silence in the room. A small smile crept across Constantine’s face and he said he thought the invention was brilliant. Felix and Hermodorus breathed sighs of relief, and the emperor said he wanted to see this invention in action himself. The whole congregation got up and traveled half an hour’s walk away to an empty field surrounded by hills. After the slaves had set the cannon down Hermodorus warned everyone present to put felt in or cover their ears with their hands. Felix and Hermodorus with the help of the slaves set off the cannon and all there were amazed. The emperor told everyone there that he wanted this to become a standard weapon of the legions, and that it would kill and strike fear in the barbarians and Persians.

Part V-The Repellant

Early Summer 328 A.D.

Lothar led his medium sized Frankish band across a small crossing on the Rhine river, leaving the barbarian east side and heading into Roman territory, a gamble for the barbarians which could be successful or result in steep consequences. They marched for a day following the Rhine northward heading towards a well-known village which they planned to plunder. After robbing and killing some travelers they encountered on the open Roman roads they traveled on, they reached the outskirts of the village, which unbeknownst to them was guarded by a permanent Roman castra. The raiders moved into the village at first meeting little or no resistance, Roman forces on the Rhine frontier were always rather stretched. The Franks looked up the hill at the fort, where a small group of Roman soldiers was coming out of. The Franks, thinking they were superior, charged up the hill to face the Romans. Just then an iron ball whizzed toward them at lighting speed and it exploded amongst their ranks. Mangled body parts were all that remained among those who had been hit. Lothar looked up at one of the towers of the small fort, out of which he saw a long bronze tube protrude. Dismayed, the Franks continued to march up the hill until fire came out the tube with a large noise and another projectile hit the Franks, mangling many more of them. Most of the barbarians panicked and fled, with Lothar remaining there shocked, until he came to his senses and fled. A small unit of Roman cavalry chased after the fleeing barbarians, cutting them down gleefully. Lothar and the rest of the survivors managed to escape into forest and two days later crossed the Rhine again, sixty-seven out of the original four hundred still alive. Lothar returned to the small village over which he was chief with a new distinct fear of the Romans, for although the Franks had been defeated before they had won just has many victories, but he sensed things were about to change. Discussing it with fellow noblemen during a feast it all struck a fear in them too, and by wintertime the word of this new Roman weapon had spread over much of Frankish territory as well as territory of the other Germans.
 
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