Alternate WWII Alliances

How about doing something involving a coup against the Duke of York and Wallis Simpson, as she was a rather racist American and the Germans would love to suggest their was some plot that make the Duke abdicate. Maybe get some overseas colonies to call loyalty to him so that the Empire splits, like with the Vichy Regime and Free French Forces. It should allow a portion of the pro-British feelings to support the Axis in that manner.

Edward's title is the Duke of Windsor, not the Duke of York.

But otherwise good idea.
 

JRScott

Banned
Japan would not be reinforcing its arms forces with American equipment. They and the United States are still in different alliances and still enemies!

Japan will not attack the USSR, their army has virtually no armor worth mentioning and they were terrified of the Soviets after Khalkin Gol. Why do you think they didn't attack Vladivostok when the Soviets were on their last legs at the height of OTL Barbarossa?

Mostly agreed on the second point but Italy might look to either the United States or Germany for replacements to its own ineffective and obsolete weaponry.

Agreed on the last point.

This sounds like suicide for Japan to continue to attack the USA, they mostly attacked due to our oil/weapon embargo after they attacked China in the early 30s though, so I suppose if that still happened they could still believing they could win might try to take out the US Pacific Fleet. Hirohito would probably be willing to give support though if the embargoes are still in place, although he did attend meetings and was active he also gave in to a lot of his militarys demands.

I suppose the question would be what year the United States joined the Axis, well all the countries really that could really tell more about what might happen.
 
Axis
Germany (1936)
Italy (1936)
United States of America (1938)
Republic of China (1937)
Hungary (1938; German puppet state)
Slovakia (1939; German puppet state)
Romania (1940)
Bulgaria (1940)
Finland (1940)
Siam (1941)
Iraq (1941)
Brazil (1938)
Argentina (1938)
Spain (1941)

Allies
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (1935)
France (1935)
Denmark (1939)
Norway (1938)
Sweden (1940)
Poland (1938)
Holland (1939)
Belgium (1939)
Luxembourg (1939)
Estonia (1939)
Latvia (1939)
Lithuania (1939)
Yugoslavia (1939)
Greece (1940)
Portugal (1941)
Turkey (1941)
Canada (1935)
Uruguay (1938)
Chile (1938)
Paraguay (1938)
Bolivia (1938)
Peru (1938)
Colombia (1938)
Ecuador (1938)
Venezuela (1938)
Persia (1942)
Saudi Arabia (1942)
Egypt (1936)
Union of South Africa (1936)
Australia (1935)
New Zealand (1935)
India (1935)
Ethiopia (1935)
Iceland (1940)
Spanish Republican government-in-exile and Free Spanish Legion (1937)

Soviet Bloc
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (1922)
People's Republic of China (1930)
Mongolia (1924; Soviet satellite state)
Tuvan People's Republic (1922; Soviet puppet state)
People's Republic of Xinjiang (1940; Soviet satellite state)
Afghan People's Republic (1940; Soviet satellite state)

Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere
Empire of Japan (1931)
Manchukuo (1931; Japanese puppet state)
Mengjiang (1937; Japanese puppet state)
Reformed National Government of the Republic of China (1938; Japanese puppet state)

Neutrals
Switzerland
Mexico
Yemen
Liechtenstein
Monaco
Guatemala
Haiti
Dominican Republic
Belize
Honduras
El Salvador
Nicaragua
Costa Rica
Panama
Cuba
 
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This sounds like suicide for Japan to continue to attack the USA, they mostly attacked due to our oil/weapon embargo after they attacked China in the early 30s though, so I suppose if that still happened they could still believing they could win might try to take out the US Pacific Fleet. Hirohito would probably be willing to give support though if the embargoes are still in place, although he did attend meetings and was active he also gave in to a lot of his militarys demands.

I suppose the question would be what year the United States joined the Axis, well all the countries really that could really tell more about what might happen.

If he opposes them vigorously enough, we're going to have to start calling him Emperor Showa Real Soon Now.:D
 

JRScott

Banned
Late 38/early 39

Canada would be overrun by the United States and essentially become territory of it or perhaps a puppet state.
Uruguay would be lost to Brazil
Paraguay to Argentina
Bolivia split between Brazil and Argentina

Late 39/early 40

There is no Destroyers for Bases deal, instead the US sells Destroyers for Uboats to Germany/Italy, and for bases to Argentina/Brazil
United States would move Pacific Fleet probably south to engage along the Peru, Columbia, Chilean coast in conjunction with Argentina and Brazil.
Argentina would take Chile and Peru with the help of Brazil and United States.
United States would probably send envoys to the following neutral countries offering them to become protected territories of the United States: Belize, Honduras, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama and Guatemala. The hope would be to have them join and provide bases for the United States.
United States takes Greenland from Denmark.

late 40/early 41

United States and Peru overrun Ecuador
United States and Brazil overrun Venezuela
Another offer to be protected territories for the Central American countries that did not accept it.
United States sends elements to join the German/Italian/Spanish attack on Gibraltar shattering the allies stronghold. (Bismark makes it to a safe port, as Ark Royal is destroyed at the Battle of Gibraltar)
United States bases in Greenland conduct bombing runs against Iceland. US u-boats conduct a blockade against Iceland.

late 41/early 42

Columbia falls to United States/Brazil/Argentina

Due to its strategic importance if Panama has not accepted to be a Territory it is also overrun and taken to keep the Canal in Axis hands. (My take is Panama accepts being a Territory seeing the writing on the wall and knowing that the troops and ships are just at Columbia that can take it easily, probably most of the Central American states also agree to be territories, mostly allowed to rule themselves and provide minimal support for the war, better that than be overun like South America or Canada).

Dec 7th 1941, Japan launches a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, the Fleet currently is in Columbia/Panama, however Japan's goals is not the fleet itself but its support. They deal a more devastating blow to infrastructure and personnel than OTL, destroying oil tanks, submarine base, most of the docks, airplanes, airfields etc. Japan hopes this will buy it time. The small token US force guarding the base is sunk but comprises of nothing bigger than a cruiser. A full invasion is not launched due to the distance of Hawaii from Japanese lines, they'll attack the Philippines shortly. President is furious, war is quickly declared and the Axis declare a few days later. Brazil and Argentina are ready to help the United States immediately with the continent secure.

United States diplomats propose that Mexico become a protected territory of the United States, pointing out the dangers of a Japanese invasion into Mexico to gain footholds. There is even a proposal to have it formerly join the United States as States and have full rights therein, the Mexican people consider it but wait to see what happens.

US Pacific Fleet, combined with elements of the Brazil and Argentina Navy make a stop at San Francisco, CA. Without resupply in Hawaii they have to wait for sufficient supply ships to start striking into the Pacific.
 
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Late 38/early 39

Canada would be overrun by the United States and essentially become territory of it or perhaps a puppet state.
Uruguay would be lost to Brazil
Paraguay to Argentina
Bolivia split between Brazil and Argentina

Late 39/early 40

There is no Destroyers for Bases deal, instead the US sells Destroyers for Uboats to Germany/Italy, and for bases to Argentina/Brazil
United States would move Pacific Fleet probably south to engage along the Peru, Columbia, Chilean coast in conjunction with Argentina and Brazil.
Argentina would take Chile and Peru with the help of Brazil and United States.
United States would probably send envoys to the following neutral countries offering them to become protected territories of the United States: Belize, Honduras, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Panama and Guatemala. The hope would be to have them join and provide bases for the United States.
United States takes Greenland from Denmark.

late 40/early 41

United States and Peru overrun Ecuador
United States and Brazil overrun Venezuela
Another offer to be protected territories for the Central American countries that did not accept it.
United States sends elements to join the German/Italian/Spanish attack on Gibraltar shattering the allies stronghold. (Bismark makes it to a safe port, as Ark Royal is destroyed at the Battle of Gibraltar)
United States bases in Greenland conduct bombing runs against Iceland. US u-boats conduct a blockade against Iceland.

late 41/early 42

Columbia falls to United States/Brazil/Argentina

Due to its strategic importance if Panama has not accepted to be a Territory it is also overrun and taken to keep the Canal in Axis hands. (My take is Panama accepts being a Territory seeing the writing on the wall and knowing that the troops and ships are just at Columbia that can take it easily, probably most of the Central American states also agree to be territories, mostly allowed to rule themselves and provide minimal support for the war, better that than be overun like South America or Canada).

Dec 7th 1941, Japan launches a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, the Fleet currently is in Columbia/Panama, however Japan's goals is not the fleet itself but its support. They deal a more devastating blow to infrastructure and personnel than OTL, destroying oil tanks, submarine base, most of the docks, airplanes, airfields etc. Japan hopes this will buy it time. The small token US force guarding the base is sunk but comprises of nothing bigger than a cruiser. A full invasion is not launched due to the distance of Hawaii from Japanese lines, they'll attack the Philippines shortly. President is furious, war is quickly declared and the Axis declare a few days later. Brazil and Argentina are ready to help the United States immediately with the continent secure.

United States diplomats propose that Mexico become a protected territory of the United States, pointing out the dangers of a Japanese invasion into Mexico to gain footholds. There is even a proposal to have it formerly join the United States as States and have full rights therein, the Mexican people consider it but wait to see what happens.

US Pacific Fleet, combined with elements of the Brazil and Argentina Navy make a stop at San Francisco, CA. Without resupply in Hawaii they have to wait for sufficient supply ships to start striking into the Pacific.

The war starts with Poland in 1939 as OTL, but the US invades Canada immediately after the panzers roll and things diverge rapidly from there.

The British Isles are in a much worse situation as they are under a blockade by both the US Navy and the Kriegsmarine, and being bombed by not only the Luftwaffe but also the USAAF. Then, Hitler gains a Channel port in 1940 and pulls off Sealion with the help of the US Navy. There's also going to be a Middle Eastern front, and fighting in Southeast Asia between the Axis (Siam and the ROC), Allies (India, Burma, Malaya, and assorted Indochinese colonies), Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere (Japan), and Soviet Bloc (PRC).

I quite like your ideas though.
 
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1935

The Grand Western Alliance is formed by Britain and France. Canada, Australia, India, and New Zealand join the same year.

Ethiopia applies to join in October and its application is quickly approved. Ethiopia begins receiving Allied military aid in its war with Italy, which stalemates as a result.

The Saar is returned to Germany.

1936
Germany remilitarizes the Rhineland.

The Berlin-Rome Axis, a military alliance between Germany and Italy, is created.

South Africa and Egypt join the Grand Western Alliance.

Francisco Franco launches a coup d'état. The Spanish Civil War starts between the Franco's pro-Axis Nationalists and the pro-Allied Republicans. Both the Allies and the Axis send some military aid and advisors to the Republicans and Nationalists, respectively.

1937

Japan and its puppet in Manchukuo invade China. Inner Mongolia is occupied rapidly, as are large areas of eastern China. The Japanese declare the independence of Inner Mongolia as "Mengjiang". No one is fooled.

The Republic of China applies for membership in the Axis. It is quickly accepted; German military aid (including, most notably, Panzer Is and IIs and a set of blueprints for the Panzer III) and military advisors are arriving in the ROC by the end of the year.

The Spanish Nationalists surround Santander in a rapid "blitzkrieg" (lightning) campaign, taught by their German advisors, cutting the Republicans off from their garrison on the Atlantic and ultimately dooming the Republic. A subsequent Republican counterattack is repulsed with heavy losses. However, the Nationalists lose most of their armor in the attack, and are forced to wait until their Tanque forces, composed mostly of German Panzer Is and IIs and Spanish T-1s (based on the Panzer II, but with a 30mm conventional cannon replacing the Panzer II's 20mm autocannon), are replenished. The Republic joins the Grand Western Alliance.

1938

The war in China stalemates due to the German panzers and military advisors Chiang continues to receive.

In response, Japan declares the formation of the "Reformed National Government of the Republic of China", purporting to be a fully democratic state free of all the problems of Chiang's republic. No one is convinced.

Seeing the effectiveness of German weaponry in China, the US, wanting to get better designs for weapons and also to keep the ROC on their side, applies to join the Axis. Hitler, eager to have such a powerful and anti-communistic nation on his side, fast-tracks the application and the US is accepted into the Berlin-Rome-Nanjing-Washington Axis in June.

Argentina and Brazil also apply to join the Axis, after seeing that the United States is joining, both wanting better weaponry and wanting not to be conquered by the United States. Both are accepted.

In response to the expansion of the Axis in the New World, Mexico and the Central American and Caribbean nations declare their neutrality in a collective declaration on October 7, and Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, and Uruguay join the Grand Western Alliance.

Hitler annexes Austria in the so-called Anschluss, or Union. He then turns his sights to Czechoslovakia. He demands that the German-majority Sudetenland border areas be given to Germany, and Carpathian Ruthenia to Hungary, or else Germany and Hungary will invade. The Czechoslovaks are frightened into giving up the areas in the First Munich Award.

Norway and Poland, deeply alarmed by this turn of events, join the Grand Western Alliance.

The Allies withdraw their men from Spain after another Nationalist blitzkrieg manages to break through to the Mediterranean. The Panzers and Tanques then push north through Catalonia. Huge numbers of Republic forces are surrounded and surrender. The Republican capital, Barcelona, falls on September 30, and the government of the Republic flees into exile in Paris. They declare the formation of the Free Spanish Legion, composed of Spanish Republicans who fled from or were exiled by the Nationalists. Many join.
 
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If you are trying to make WW2 as big as possible, Ethiopia could join the allies in 1935 to fend of Italian aggression and get Eritrea back.
 
1939

January 12: Valencia, the last Republican holdout in Spain, surrenders.

February 7: Second Munich Award. Germany makes Czechoslovakia give southern Slovakia to Hungary and grant the rest of Slovakia its independence. Slovakia immediately joins the Axis.

April 23: Germany invades the rump Czechia. It quickly surrenders and is annexed to Germany. The Low Countries join the Alliance.

May 19: Denmark joins the Alliance.

June 1: Estonia and Latvia apply to join the Alliance.

June 2: Lithuania applies to the Alliance. The Baltic States are accepted into the Alliance.

August 12: Germany invades Poland.

August 13: The Alliance declares war on Germany. France invades and occupies the Saar.

August 14: The Axis collectively declare war on the Alliance. Brazil invades Uruguay. The Axis, led by the US and Brazilian Navies and the Kriegsmarine, blockade Allied shores.

August 15: Brazil and Argentina invade Paraguay.

August 18: Uruguay surrenders.

August 20: Paraguay surrenders.

August 21: The United States invades Canada. Their forces quickly blitz the Atlantic provinces and Quebec south of the St. Lawrence, but get bogged down in Ontario, Manitoba, and British Columbia.

August 22: Argentina invades Chile and Bolivia.

August 23: The Soviet Union, Mongolia, Japan, Manchukuo, and Mengjiang sign a treaty adjusting certain areas of their borders.

August 28: The Soviet Union signs a treaty with Iran adjusting their borders.

September 1: Bolivia surrenders.

September 30: Poland surrenders.

October 3: Brazil invades and occupies the Guianas.

October 5: Germany drives French forces out of the Saar.

October 8: Yugoslavia joins the Alliance.

October 15: U.S. Marines land on Vancouver Island. They get bogged down and advance only slowly.

November 4: Regina is surrounded.

November 20: Regina surrenders.

November 29: Chile surrenders.

December 1: The Soviet Union invades the Baltic States.

December 2: Germany invades Lithuania.

December 8: The Allies establish a defensive perimeter in Courland.

December 9: Argentina invades Peru.

December 16: By this date, the Peruvian Army has managed to severely slow the Argentinean advance into Peru. However, on this date, Brazil invades Peru, making the Peruvian position untenable.

December 17: The Soviet Union adjusts its internal borders and creates three new Soviet Socialist Republics (the Manchurian Soviet Socialist Republic, consisting of Russian Manchuria south of the Amur plus Russian Sakhalin, and the Estonian and Latvian Soviet Socialist Republics, consisting of Soviet-occupied Estonia and Latvia.)

December 20: The Brazilian Army reaches the Pacific, cutting Peru in two.

December 23: The southern pocket in Peru surrenders.

December 25: The northern pocket in Peru surrenders.

December 26: Poland is officially annexed to Germany as four Reichsgaue: Reichsgau Danzig-West Prussia, Reichsgau Wartheland, Reichsgau Galizien, and Reichsgau Bialystok.

December 28: Argentina invades Ecuador. The United States demands that Panama close the Panama Canal to the Allies. Panama refuses.

December 29: Ecuador surrenders. Panama refuses the American demand. Therefore, American troops land and occupy the nation. Germany invades Denmark.

December 30: Hungary demands the Hungarian-majority areas of Romania. Germany arbitrates, and an agreement is reached whereby referenda will be held in the disputed territories on 30 March 1940, barring an invasion of Romania by a country not party to the agreement.

December 31: The Allies establish a defensive perimeter in Jutland. However, several small Danish islands are occupied by Germany. Also, the United States, Brazil, and Argentina invade Colombia and Venezuela. The United States occupies Greenland and invades Iceland.
 
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And here is the map:

Alternate WW2 31-12-1939.png
 
Seeing the effectiveness of German weaponry in China, the US, wanting to get better designs for weapons and also to keep the ROC on their side, applies to join the Axis. Hitler, eager to have such a powerful and anti-communistic nation on his side, fast-tracks the application and the US is accepted into the Berlin-Rome-Nanjing-Washington Axis in June.

Isolationist America... Joins the Axis because of German weapons? Who's in charge here? Because pushing the USA into the Axis camp is really hard. They have just come out of a depression and want nothing to do with conflicts in Europe at this point, and they join in a military Alliance with the most agressive nation on the continent?

Also the US supported the Republic of China, but not enough to EVER get this heavily involved. The USA would have been more likely to simply outbid the Germans in terms of weapons provided, not work with them. Also Chiang never really trusted the USA, he constantly did deals with the USSR behind their backs.

Finally Nazi-American relations were sour at best, Hitler did not overly trust the USA and vice versa, so the premise in which you have them join the Axis is really, REALLY flimsy. All the parties have competing interests and I simply do not see such an alliance lasting long at all.

And why would they invade South America and Iceland? Where are they getting this manpower because they are now fighting in the Pacifc, in North America, South America, Asia and the Atlantic. All for what? To help Hitler? It's ridiculous, they have no cause to be involved whatsoever :/ This is almost ASB because none of these alliances make sense and that's just the Axis.
 
There are a few minor issues with the points of divergence. For instance, the United States OWNED the Panama Canal and had complete authority within their zone.
 
Isolationist America... Joins the Axis because of German weapons? Who's in charge here? Because pushing the USA into the Axis camp is really hard. They have just come out of a depression and want nothing to do with conflicts in Europe at this point, and they join in a military Alliance with the most agressive nation on the continent?

Also the US supported the Republic of China, but not enough to EVER get this heavily involved. The USA would have been more likely to simply outbid the Germans in terms of weapons provided, not work with them. Also Chiang never really trusted the USA, he constantly did deals with the USSR behind their backs.

Finally Nazi-American relations were sour at best, Hitler did not overly trust the USA and vice versa, so the premise in which you have them join the Axis is really, REALLY flimsy. All the parties have competing interests and I simply do not see such an alliance lasting long at all.

And why would they invade South America and Iceland? Where are they getting this manpower because they are now fighting in the Pacifc, in North America, South America, Asia and the Atlantic. All for what? To help Hitler? It's ridiculous, they have no cause to be involved whatsoever :/ This is almost ASB because none of these alliances make sense and that's just the Axis.

They are fighting in neither Asia nor (significantly) in the Pacific.

Greenland and Iceland give you total dominance of the North Atlantic. The U.S. Navy and the Kriegsmarine will be able to bottle up the Royal Navy in the British Isles. Ditto for the air forces. This results in a successful though bloody Sealion.

Do not forget that the US is the third most populous nation in the world, and have the only navy that can, on its own, outmatch the Royal Navy.

Don't worry, the alliance will break up within a decade.
 
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They are fighting in neither Asia nor (significantly) in the Pacific.

Do not forget that the US is the third most populous nation in the world, and have the only navy that can, on its own, outmatch the Royal Navy.

Don't worry, the alliance will break up within a decade.

The point I was trying to make is that the USA has nothing to get out of the Axis. At best, the Axis could rely on them not joining the Allies, there is no way without a WAAAAY earlier POD that the USA would get involved, so much on the side of Nazi Germany. They have nothing of common interest, preserving the Republic of China, is not worth waging War on the British Empire for, they were a ponderous entity that still had sore memories of the last time they were involved in European affairs. All the USA is doing is proping up Hitler's expansionist dreams, something the US public and congress would not have been happy about.
 
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