Alphabet For the Vinlandic Language

[TsarSaucybottom]

The Celtic rite should help to a degree if they stay away from the doctrine that priests have to be celibate. Will help increase the population and bond with the colonists and help convert the local native population.

Besides the Celtic tonsure looks much better the the Roman one.

Agreed, to all of that. I actually almost forgot about the celibacy with Celtic priests thing.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Your alphabet and sounds seems to a large extent to be derived from Modern Icelandic although it probably predates even the Old Icelandic Latin alphabet (I do not know your chronology).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Grammatical_Treatise#Alphabet

Apologies, I guess I forgot to specify; the post I made was a sort of "modern" version of Vinlandic.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Apology and Opinions

I apologize for not updating this for a couple of days; a bad episode of depression hit me and it slowed down my writing and thinking process for a while, and I've been kind of mulling over where I should take this.

As it stands, if I make an actual timeline on this instead of merely focusing on the lingual side, I think the timeline will begin in the late 6th-early 7th century, where a Celtic church can help establish itself as the dominating factor in the British Isles (though technically, there is also another POD that may happen earlier for a completely different group in the mainland of Europe). I was mostly wondering what people would want to see more: a focus on language or a focus on a timeline.

 

[altwere]

How ambitious are you?

 

[PBJ]

I apologize for not updating this for a couple of days; a bad episode of depression hit me and it slowed down my writing and thinking process for a while, and I've been kind of mulling over where I should take this.

As it stands, if I make an actual timeline on this instead of merely focusing on the lingual side, I think the timeline will begin in the late 6th-early 7th century, where a Celtic church can help establish itself as the dominating factor in the British Isles (though technically, there is also another POD that may happen earlier for a completely different group in the mainland of Europe). I was mostly wondering what people would want to see more: a focus on language or a focus on a timeline.

Well, technically, a Celtic church *was* established as a dominating factor in the British Isles OTL, as Irish missionaries were critical in converting much of Britain and beyond to Christianity, and then proceeded to make many important contributions to the faith over the next few centuries.

However, I personally would prefer a focus on a timeline, with the linguistic aspect thrown in as a bonus from time to time.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Well, technically, a Celtic church *was* established as a dominating factor in the British Isles OTL, as Irish missionaries were critical in converting much of Britain and beyond to Christianity, and then proceeded to make many important contributions to the faith over the next few centuries.

However, I personally would prefer a focus on a timeline, with the linguistic aspect thrown in as a bonus from time to time.

Yeah, that seems like a good way to do it.

Pardon me, though, since I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, but did monasticism remain in the Isles, even after events like the Synod of Whitby?

 

[PBJ]

Yeah, that seems like a good way to do it.

Pardon me, though, since I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, but did monasticism remain in the Isles, even after events like the Synod of Whitby?

Monasticism remained, but was more or less secular by the 9th century, with the various ruling families and royal economies intertwined with the monastic system. The monasteries were also known to go to war in support of the royal family they were tied to, as Durrow Abbey's sacking in 764 emphasizes.

So the system itself remained, but was a pale shade of its former self by the 8th century.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

The Early Beginning of Vinland

664
While the influence of the Celtic rite had held strong in the land of the Anglo-Saxons, it was cemented in the Synod of Whitby by the Northumbrian king Oswiu, as the English chose to align themselves with their Hiberno brethren of the Isles. It had renewed a spirit within the people of the Isles, a spirit that would lead to another, more vigorous mission that had begun to wane since the death of Columbanus.
The desire to spread the Celtic mission of Christ had made the people of the Isles set their eyes on a rather risky neighbor. The new mission would be an attempt at bringing the word of God under sacrament of the Celts to the Norsemen.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Sorry for such a short start to the timeline. It's a bit scary for me starting things off, and I wasn't sure if I had a whole let to say just yet.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

The Failed Missions

669
This date marks the beginning of what would be considered "The British Missions", an extension of the Hiberno-Scottish missions which included efforts on the side of the Anglo-Saxons, but would also be considered "The Failed Missions".
The main goal of this mission was to convert the heathens of the north, starting at more coastal areas and spreading up further. Those controlling the British Mission had high hopes for the spread of Christianity. The effort would later turn to disappointment.
The initial efforts of conversion were a mixed bag. Monasteries were able to be established in some areas of Scandinavia, but they were few and far between as many of the rulers of the region rejected the ideas of Christianity and the lack of connection on the Scandinavian coasts didn't help any. In many areas, the monks who had come to the lands of the Norse were driven off back to the British Isles, and many of the monasteries were raised to the ground within a few years.
The mixed success of these missionary actions, along with the resentment of Christians coming into pagan land, were the main reason for these events to be called The Failed Missions; Christian encroachment would create a sense of hatred in the pagan Norse, who saw the Christians as invaders of their land and would lead to attacks on the Isles later on by the people known as the Vikings.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

What do people think of this timeline so far? Are the updates too short?

 

[altwere]

I'm enjoying it so far. The updates are fine. Do them, however; you are comfortable with writing.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

The First Troubles

700-724
This period was known as "The First Troubles" - a period where while Christianity did stay in Scandinavia, its influence would wane here and there, as abbey was destroyed and rebuilt again only to repeat the process over and over. The presense and persistence of the Christians in the lands of the Norse vexed the heathen population and led to what would be considered taking pot shots at the Isles.
Norse raiders would come and strike coastal cities on the British Isles and just as quickly depart, most likely in an odd way of taunting the people of the Isles to show how frustrated they were with the Christians. While it was annoying to the Celtic Christians, it was just as much frightening, as raids were infrequent, some taking place between days while others could take place after a year. The First Troubles are considered by many modern historians to be the first example of Viking raids, though more based on a campaign of terror and frustrating the British instead of plundering for gold. Nevertheless, churches and monasteries were often prime targets around the eastern coast of Ireland and England, and some raids were attempted in the north of Ireland, but were quickly repulsed by the Northern Uí Néill and Ulaid.
By around 724, these types of raids would begin to die down, giving the British peoples a short breath of fresh air. 66 years later, the Viking Age would begin.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

I'm enjoying it so far. The updates are fine. Do them, however; you are comfortable with writing.

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.
Sorry for responding back to you so late.

 

[altwere]

Not to worry, you are doing a good job and there is live outside of AH.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

The Arrival of the Vikings

793 - 848
"Let this year, 793, be remembered as the beginning of the dreaded storm of the North,
Slow at first, but soon gaining speed that could engulf the whole of the Isles in darkness,
As they rampage across the holy ground of the Isles, filling their appetite for blood and plunder,
With each man, woman, and child falling under their axe and monasteries ravaged by rapine,
Let this year mark the arrival of the Norseman"
-A sample from the Lament of the Isles, translated into Norman-English

What would be known as The First Viking Age began on this year, as the Vikings struck down from the Scandinavian lands. While invasions years prior were mostly centered around harassment of the British Isles, the invasion of the Vikings was driven by a hunger for gold and conquest. England would become the first target of these raids, striking in the east of England and spreading through the country through well-palnned raids that targeted the monasteries of the Celtic Church in England.

Much of the information from the past raids on the Isles were kept by the Norsemen, and helped them target some of the more weaker parts, avoiding Northern Ireland in particular. A better suited target for them would be Eastern Ireland, that quickly fell to the Norse raiders who would over the years begin to solidify their control on the coastal areas and would even go on to set up cities in these lands.

Scotland also wasn't spared from this activity; many of the Northern Islands of Scotland were attacked and pillaged by the Norse, but were much quicker to be settled as well, with some of the first towns being established in 794, with either the population being displaced or killed by the raiders, integrated into the Norse cultural sphere, or vice versa for the latter.

As damaging as these raids were, some saw success in it: The Norse were beginning to accept Christianity, with some of the first Norse being converted as they moved further into the Irish lands. This way of thinking was often looked down by many of the Irish at the time who found no enjoyment of the Vikings attacking their country, but it is still held in truth as many Vikings found themselves converting to Christianity the longer they stayed on the British Isles.

 

[Zireael]

This is really interesting!

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Early Consolidation

820 - 10th century
The Isles were not the only place to be attacked by the Vikings, and attacking was not the only thing that the Vikings did in these places. The Vikings had begun to explore many parts of the world, with much of their spread through Europe happening in 820 when they moved across the Gulf of Finland into Novgorod and down through the Mediterranean into the Empire of the Byzantines.

The Baltic Sea area would also become a hot spot for Norse trade, with port towns in places like modern day Estonia and Northeastern Germany. In the latter, the Wends had been in conflict with a surprising people: the Goths, who had been in a constant state of migration for centuries after the fall of the Ostrogothic Kingdom and had started fighting with the Wends over land. It had made some areas easier to raid and settle by the Danes as both the Wends and the Goths were weakened from constant fighting; however, all three groups managed to settle peacefully enough eventually, though the occasional raid still happened between the three.

Another area often targeted for raiding was the land of the Franks, who had great fear of the Northmen despite how often their attacks could be driven back. The Franks saw them as savages in bear hides coming to disrupt their civilized Christian life. Despite this, they saw the usefulness of them in combat, and allowed them to settle in areas of Northern France with the Duchy of Normandy springing up in the early 10th century.

The more useful of areas settled was Iceland in the second half of the 9th century. It was seen as a place for easy land, as no group would be there to challenge the settlers and offered arable land. The only people found here were Irish monks, with most of them being hermits displaced from the rest of the world. However, there were also still other monks manning a small monastery. The Vikings had decided to spare them, with the main reason being unknown, though most point to the idea of them being easy slave labor. Iceland would later become a projection port for Greenland across the ocean, and would later earn the moniker of "Gate of the Worlds" as it linked the Old World with the New. It would be from here that Erik the Red would set out for Greenland, finding luck in only losing three of his 25 ships on the way there.

Back on the Isles, the Danes would flip between taking control and losing it in England, where they would spread their influence, but also have it be driven out again, most famously by the king Alfred. Nonetheless, the Danelaw, an area of control under the Danes, would soon root itself into England, and would help set the grounds for the Canutian Period in the Celto-Christian cultural sphere.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Christianization of the Norse and Pre-Vinland Era

820 - 1002
Slowly but surely, Christianity wormed its way into the ways of the Norse. The longer the Norse stayed in their conquered territories, the more they adopted the ways of the Celtic Christians. The first Viking convert was recorded to be a man named Ragnar Ragnarsson, who, like many later Vikings, did it for political reasons: Gaining the loyalty of the Northern Uí Néill so that he and his men may assist them in fighting their wars against their southern neighbors.

Christianity was adopted quicker by the Norse who settled into England and created the Danelaw, and up North in the land of the Scots, the process went even quicker (generally because of the lower population of Norse there).

Over in the mainland, in the early 10th century, the Normans adopted the Roman branch of Christianity to appease the Franks and gain their own territory in Francia. Further north, up in the modern area of Northeastern Germany, many of the Vikings who settled with the Goths soon converted into either Roman Christianity or into Arianism that had been re-adopted by the Goths.

Iceland would be one of the more important places for Christianity to develope, and would keep connection with some parts of Ireland across the sea and would often be considered as "The Port of Christianity", a place that would be the first stepping stone of sending Christianity over to Vinland in later centuries. It would be the first dominantly Norse country to have a state church, today dubbed as The Celtic Church of Iceland.

Scandinavia itself would be the slowest in adopting Christianity. While the Danes controlled many Christian subjects, they were initially treated harshly by the pagans, but the more the Danes became involved in areas of their holdings, the more kindlier they would treat their Christian subjects. Many jarls would slowly convert to Christianity, and their peoples would follow in their foot tracks and convert with their lords. Many also had different methods of conversion, either through peaceful means of slow assimilation or by putting other tribes and jarldoms in the area to the sword.

The Celtic Church would also begin to blend with more traditional beliefs here, as well, and would later shape a Celtic-Norse Christian fusion, generally popular in modern times with the image of a stave church with a Celtic cross adorned to the top. Denmark would also be the place of birth of one of the more important Danish Christians: Cnut (or Canute) the Great, creator of the North Sea Empire and the Canutian Era.

 

[TsarSaucybottom]

Sorry that I make posts like these so often, but what do those following think so far? Is there anything you'd like to see or any questions you might have about the timeline so far?