AHC/WI: Ancient Romans more Egyptophile than philhellene...

[The Admiral Hook]

Just as it says, ancient Romans are famous for adoring the Greeks and are noted for taking much of Greek culture, religion, mythology, and architecture into their own fold.

This isn't necessarily a challenge to make Rome less philhellene, simply make them more Egyptophile than philhellene and what are the effects?

 

[SlyDessertFox]

I don't see how they can become Egyptophile in any real scenario. The Ptolemies were very much Greek, and almost everyone of importance in Egypt was also Greek, with a few exceptions. The Egyptian cults had already been Hellenified (Isis for example).

 

[The Admiral Hook]

I don't see how they can become Egyptophile in any real scenario. The Ptolemies were very much Greek, and almost everyone of importance in Egypt was also Greek, with a few exceptions. The Egyptian cults had already been Hellenified (Isis for example).

I think you know full well what I meant. Make them more interested in admiring and stealing ancient Egyptian culture, religion, architecture, etc. than ancient or contemporary Greek.

 

[LSCatilina]

Egyptian cultures never were much influential except for territories once part of its dominion (Nubia, Syria/Palestine) : it was too much associated with Egypt to became used by others cultures. While the scientific achievments were widely used and acknowledged by Greeks the artistic, architectural, etc features were too closely related with egyptian rites or cults, something of an exceptionnalism, to be widely taken by Rome.

OTL, you had romans buildings small pyramids, importating or buildings obelisks after Agustean conquesy, not unlike Napoléon's expedition provoqued the égyptomanie.

Furthermore, when Rome became a great power in Mediterranea, Egyptian culture (at least dominant one) wasn't the pharaonic one, but an hellenistic egyptian culture (due to a process existing since the V°).

The dominant culture, in all regards, since the birth of Rome was the hellenistic one, critically in Italy while, again, pharaonic culture was at best reduced to popular egyptian society.

It would be like asking if US didn't used more Inca features rather than European.

 

[vandevere]

Not really expert on the era or the culture, but possibly the best chance for this happening would be to have Mark Antony and Cleopatra win the war instead of Octavian...

Not sure this would have the effect you're looking for, but it would be the best chance...

 

[SlyDessertFox]

I think you know full well what I meant. Make them more interested in admiring and stealing ancient Egyptian culture, religion, architecture, etc. than ancient or contemporary Greek.

Again, I don't see how this changes anything I said. Rome did like Egyptian obelisks which is why there are plenty in the city today and I believe there was a miniature pyramid on the outside of the city. That's as much as you are going get though.

 

[January First-of-May]

Alexander III of Macedon conquers Persia but doesn't go to Egypt. Then a few decades later, some guy based in Egypt conquers the remnants of Alexander's former empire.
The Roman Republic is already around by that point, and isn't directly touched by either of the conquests, so with a careful butterfly net you can still have a large Roman state forming, and ending up with Egyptophilic tendencies because everyone else around has them.
ASB, I know. But probably the most plausible way.

 

[Dorozhand]

The Ptolemies are especially desperate in one of their wars and raise an army of natives to fight off a Seleucid invasion. The invasion is defeated, but upon returning home the army revolts, drives out the Ptolemies and establishes a new native dynasty. Then you have an independent Egypt rising around the same time that Rome is becoming important in the Mediterranean.

Even better, you could have Nectanebo II win the Battle of Pelusium and permanently drive out the Achaemenids from Egypt. The country was prospering and experiencing a cultural revival during his reign, and if that trend had continued, Egypt could have become an ascendant culture in the eastern Med. by the time the Romans begin to look outside of Italy. Perhaps then you could have an Egypto-Roman alliance against some Greek power later on, and then Romans adopting en masse elements of Egyptian culture and syncretizing it with Roman culture.

It wouldn't be an Egyptianized Rome, but it might just give Roman culture a visible Egyptian flavour in the background.

 

[Mongo]

Well, the cult of Isis did become somewhat popular in later Rome, as shown in the famous novel "The Golden Ass". So there was already in OTL some cultural influence.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

Well, the cult of Isis did become somewhat popular in later Rome, as shown in the famous novel "The Golden Ass". So there was already in OTL some cultural influence.

The Hellenized Isis. The Romans were introduced to the Hellenized Isis through the Ptolemies. It would still probably count as philhellenism more than any love for Egyptian culture.