AHC: "The Usual Suspects" as a Bond film

[phx1138]

Inspired by this thread

Since so many people think the Brosnan Bonds sucked, a proposal: make a sequel to "The Usual Suspects", starting with the end (the dead guy, who would be a source), & where Keyser Söze is real.

Start any time after "Suspects" is approved, for release between 1996 & 2000.

POD of your choice.

Brosnan as Bond is preferred, but not mandatory. (Daniel Craig & Timothy Dalton are off limits, however.)

Fewer gadgets & more ruthlessness are preferred.

If you can arrange Connery as the villain, you win.

Bonus points if you have Moore hit by a bus in the opening sequence.

 

[Glass Onion]

What do you mean by Keyser Soze being real? The film makes it very clear that although Verbal is lying about just about everything, and although he may well be exaggerating the extent of his influence, he does indeed have a fearsome reputation, and that he is a dangerous man. Does it have to be a direct sequel? Or can a spiritual successor count?

 

[phx1138]

What do you mean by Keyser Soze being real? The film makes it very clear that although Verbal is lying about just about everything

Just about? Who was "Kobayashi" the associate of? Him.

As I recall the last two minutes of the film, everything Kint says (including his own ID, IIRC) was taken from an item in the office, including Kobayashi, & IIRC "Keyser" & "Söze".

Does it have to be a direct sequel? Or can a spiritual successor count?

No, I just mean, start from the same spiritual underpinnings. Keep the paranoid tone, & the criminal mastermind. (I wouldn't frown on a bit part for Spacey, either.)

 

[robcraufurd]

As I recall the last two minutes of the film, everything Kint says (including his own ID, IIRC) was taken from an item in the office, including Kobayashi, & IIRC "Keyser" & "Söze".

Might be worth a rewatch. Arkosh Kovash knows Söze exists, as does Dan Metzheiser from the Department of Justice.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

(*Spoilers*)

The point of the ending is it's ambiguity. What we know is that Kevin Spacey lied and made it all up. But is Soze real, or is he just a legend? That is the never answered question. Spacey is not necessarily Soze. He's simply the one really behind it all. He may be Soze, or Soze may just be fiction as well; a figure who never really was but who everyone thinks exists, and whose legend still manipulates and intimidates.

 

[AMF]

Two quotes, from the wikipedia plot summary:

Baer interrogates the severely burned Kovash in the hospital, who claims that Keyser Söze, a Turkish criminal mastermind with a near-mythical reputation, was in the harbor "killing many men". Kovash begins to describe Söze through an interpreter while a police sketch artist draws a rendering of Söze's face. .... .... .... .....
Kujan realizes that most of Verbal's story was improvised for his benefit and chases after him, running past a fax machine as it receives the police artist's impression of Keyser Söze's face, which resembles none other than Verbal Kint.

This seems to show that Verbal Kint is Keyser Söze, rather than making up Keyser Söze.

But to return to the main point.
I think that the tone of the James Bond films, and especially those between Sean Connery and Daniel Craig was very, very different from that of The Usual Suspects
James Bond films: gimmicks play a large role (though slightly less, I think in the Sean Connery films, and much less in the Daniel Craig films) - No gimmicks in The Usual Suspects

James Bond films (all of them): hero of near mythical proportions, winning against practically impossible odds
The Usual Suspects: villain of near mythical proportions, winning in an extremely difficult situation

James Bond films: death and injury are either for faceless mooks or a villain who does not deserve any sympathy, the hero and even innocent bystanders are not expected to suffer
The Usual Suspects: death and injury can strike anyone, even the gangsters dying in the attack on the ship are not faceless, as far as I can remember

James Bond films: the hero seduces beautiful women in beautiful locations and shows a touch of class ("shaken, not stirred") even shortly before a life-threatening situation (Daniel Craig partly subverts this trope)
The Usual Suspects:I cannot remember any beautiful locations or scenes of seduction playing any important role, and the wikipedia article mentions only one woman in the cast. The gangsters and police officers would probably care even less than the Daniel Craig Bond whether their Martinis are shaken or stirred.

In my subjective perception, The Usual Suspects was a far more gripping story than all the Bond films, excepting Casino Royale.
It would be impossible to have a film that captures the mood of any Bond film (excepting possibly Casino Royale) and also captures the mood of The Usual Suspects. The mood of the Bond films is just too bright, and that of The Usual Suspects just too dark.

 

[Glass Onion]

Just about? Who was "Kobayashi" the associate of? Him.

As I recall the last two minutes of the film, everything Kint says (including his own ID, IIRC) was taken from an item in the office, including Kobayashi, & IIRC "Keyser" & "Söze".

No, I just mean, start from the same spiritual underpinnings. Keep the paranoid tone, & the criminal mastermind. (I wouldn't frown on a bit part for Spacey, either.)

We know that there is a "Keyser Soze" in the film or at least Kint is using that alias. Not everything in the film comes from Kint's narration. There's the opening scene, there's the Hungarian witness Soze leaves behind, and there's an FBI agent who describes what the Government knows about him. He's a mysterious brutal figure involved in the international drug trade.

Though he probably isn't as perfect as a criminal as he likes to portray himself as. Hell, he actually screws up during his interview. He actually confesses to murder during that whole conversation. But the man interrogating him is so single minded about Dean Keaton that he doesn't notice. Briefly, Kint actually shouts. "I did, I did kill Keaton." before quickly reverting to "I saw Keaton get shot", which are of course, two very different statements.

 

[Rich Rostrom]

James Bond films: death and injury are either for faceless mooks or a villain who does not deserve any sympathy, the hero and even innocent bystanders are not expected to suffer...

In several of the Bond movies, allies of Bond are killed; in several cases a young woman who has become Bond's mistress. Bond's wife is killed in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

 

[AMF]

In several of the Bond movies, allies of Bond are killed; in several cases a young woman who has become Bond's mistress. Bond's wife is killed in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

You are right and I was wrong in so far as you do not have to be a mook or a villain to get killed. (And I also remember Vesper Lynd's death by drowning in Casino Royale). But as far as the innocent bystanders are concerned, I might still be right. You get Bond chasing through Moscow with a tank, without any innocent bystanders getting hurt. You get a boat chase on the busy River Thames and the boat then plowing on for an impossible distance overland and no innocent bystanders get hurt. If I remember rightly, Bond starts a private car race with Xenia Onatopp on a narrow mountain road on which also a bicycle race is taking place. Still, no one gets killed or seriously injured.

You do not get psychopathic killers shooting non-combattants or taking complete strangers as hostages, as far as I know. (postscripterhaps I should have written "You do not get psychopathic killers shooting non-combattants completely unrelated to the 'good' fighting side" - Felix Leiter's bride is killed in License to Kill.)

The people who get killed are mooks and villains on the one hand and soldiers, sailors, pilots or agents for the "good" side on the other.
To the best of my knowledge, the women who sleep with Bond and get killed afterwards (with the exception of Teresa "Tracy" Bond nee Draco) are agents for the good side (Vesper Lynd in Casino Royale, Strawberry Fields in Quantum of Solace) or they have been involved very much with the bad side (Jill Masterson, covered in gold in Goldfinger, Solange Dimitrios in Casino Royale (though actually only a moment away from sleeping with Bond)) One could argue that even Teresa Bond fits into that pattern, although being "involved" with the bad guys means in this case being the daughter of one.

 

[unclepatrick]

If you mean have a Bond film where the Major Villain may or may not exist, with some good Writing, it could be done.

In fact, you most likely end up with something like Iron Man 3.
While Watching that, I thought it would have been better as either Hawkeye/black widow movie or as a Non Superhero movie.
I thought that the plot would have made a very good 24 movie.

 

[phx1138]

I may need to watch "Suspects" again...

That said, it was the power & reach of the villain I had in mind: a more equal match to Bond than some of the low-rent baddies we've seen.

 

[Glass Onion]

Perhaps a certain lawsuit has a different outcome and the filmmakers do not lose the rights to SPECTRE and Blofeld. Years later SPECTRE and a mysterious new head of the organization make a reappearance in a Bond film. Give the group a modernized goal, and keep the head of it as concealed as possible, even to the point where we have various characters falsely identified as this new "Blofeld." The filmmakers try to reimagine Bond's greatest enemy for the 1990's. Said villain is played by Spacey, or if we are really pushing what the studio will allow, Sean Connery.

Just an idea.

 

[BeardedHoplite]

The mood of the Bond films is just too bright, and that of The Usual Suspects just too dark.

Too light? Licence to Kill was bleak

 

[Stolengood]

Perhaps a certain lawsuit has a different outcome and the filmmakers do not lose the rights to SPECTRE and Blofeld. Years later SPECTRE and a mysterious new head of the organization make a reappearance in a Bond film. Give the group a modernized goal, and keep the head of it as concealed as possible, even to the point where we have various characters falsely identified as this new "Blofeld."

John Gardner did it first, and EON has been quite loath to adapt continuation novels to film, so... not gonna happen, sorry.

 

[AMF]

John Gardner did it first, and EON has been quite loath to adapt continuation novels to film, so... not gonna happen, sorry.

Thank you very much, Stolengood, for the link. This excerpt from the plot summary of that wikipedia article on For Special Services shows how silly spy thrillers can get:

His true identity revealed, Bond is captured and brainwashed into believing he is an American general assigned to inspect NORAD. Although he has been set up to be killed in the ensuing attack by SPECTRE forces on the base, Bond regains his personality and his memory. Apparently Bismaquer, who is bisexual, has taken a liking to Bond and sabotaged the hypnosis. When Bond returns to Bismaquer's ranch, he witnesses Bismaquer being killed by Nena, who is in fact the mind behind the operation and the daughter of Blofeld, a fact she confesses to Bond just before falling into the crushing grip of her pet pythons. She is later put out of her misery by Felix Leiter, who arrives on the scene to help rescue his daughter.

The section on "Reviews" begins with the sentence "Many critics were scathing." and the rest is almost exclusively an elaboration of that theme.

 

[Willmatron]

A good scenario would be an organization with a mythical leader being taking over by a master criminal who convinces them that he is the real man. Imagine Spacey's character arranging a situation that makes him look like Soze and takes over many criminal groups.

MI-6 and the CIA both know Soze doesn't exist, but they realize that the damage one man can do with all the criminals behind him. They send Bond and other agents to take him out before he can do real damage.

 

[phx1138]

an organization with a mythical leader being taking over by a master criminal

Keyser Söze as Charlie Luciano? Hmm...