AHC: Substantially alter the US flag

[Meadow]

Your challenge, with a POD no earlier than January 1st 1900, is to have the United States of America stop using the stars and stripes as its flag. Simply changing the number of stars/stripes does not count.

Conditions:
- No new emerging states - the 'USA', whatever size it is in your scenario, must use the Constitution of the United States verbatim as its constitution (whether it follows it is another matter - dictatorships using amendments and 'emergency powers' are fine) and be accepted internationally as the USA.
- Anything goes. I'm aware that this is quite a tough challenge, so I'm not imposing a 'no nukes/wars/rebellions' rule apart from the above one. You want to make President Dirksen replace the stars and stripes with a black flag of mourning after the 18 Hour War of 1956, that's fine. Moderate handwavium permitted but total ASBs frowned upon. What's important is the reasoning behind changing the flag.
- For brownie points, explain what the new flag looks like or, if possible, post a picture of it.

 

[Thande]

That's pretty hard. Um...OK...how about a situation where WW1 goes a bit differently and you end up with multiple communist states (Russia, Germany, maybe France) which eventually unite in one big federation...the WW2 equivalent features Britain + vaguely fascist Italy, Spain etc fighting a losing war and going down in flames against the juggernaut...Communists control all of Europe. USA paralysed by fight between interventionist anticommunists and isolationists; former faction eventually comes out on top, but it's too late to save Britain & friends. The last act of the final British PM, with the consent of the last king, is to sign over the whole Empire to the United States so they may continue the fight against international communism.

America is now in McCarthyism-on-steroids mode and sees her role as preventing communism from completely overrunning the Old World. This takes the form of a strategic alliance with Japan and both the US and Japan backing anticommunist movements in China, which becomes a major battleground between the ideologies. After a few years, an agreement is reached to combine the US with the (white-majority) parts of the former Empire into a new ocean-spanning federated state. This new federation will be majority American and still will be referred to as the United States (but not 'of America') and its government will be based on the US constitution. But to reflect the new dawn, a new flag is adopted.

I don't know what the flag would look like. Perhaps a plain blue flag to counter the plain red flag of international communism?

 

[star]

2005: after the election of 2000, the Democratics and the commom population push for take down the Electoral College, and in agreement with it "new" USA, the tiny 50 stars of the 50 states are replace by 30 big stars of the 300.000.000 population in the center of the flag and.... I dont know what else.

 

[Mad Missouri]

2005: after the election of 2000, the Democratics and the commom population push for take down the Electoral College, and in agreement with it "new" USA, the tiny 50 stars of the 50 states are replace by 30 big stars of the 300.000.000 population in the center of the flag and.... I dont know what else.

You mean the 47.9% of the "common" people that voted for the other guy don't get stars?

 

[wolf_brother]

Wait, is this even a realistic challenge? How often do non-dynastic polities change their banners without a revolution into to a new and different polity?

 

[TheSevenLeggedFallyDowner]

Wait, is this even a realistic challenge? How often do non-dynastic polities change their banners without a revolution into to a new and different polity?

Canada changed theirs in the 1960s.

Other than that . . . yeah, it usually takes a revolution.

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

That's pretty hard. Um...OK...how about a situation where WW1 goes a bit differently and you end up with multiple communist states (Russia, Germany, maybe France) which eventually unite in one big federation...the WW2 equivalent features Britain + vaguely fascist Italy, Spain etc fighting a losing war and going down in flames against the juggernaut...Communists control all of Europe. USA paralysed by fight between interventionist anticommunists and isolationists; former faction eventually comes out on top, but it's too late to save Britain & friends. The last act of the final British PM, with the consent of the last king, is to sign over the whole Empire to the United States so they may continue the fight against international communism.

America is now in McCarthyism-on-steroids mode and sees her role as preventing communism from completely overrunning the Old World. This takes the form of a strategic alliance with Japan and both the US and Japan backing anticommunist movements in China, which becomes a major battleground between the ideologies. After a few years, an agreement is reached to combine the US with the (white-majority) parts of the former Empire into a new ocean-spanning federated state. This new federation will be majority American and still will be referred to as the United States (but not 'of America') and its government will be based on the US constitution. But to reflect the new dawn, a new flag is adopted.

I don't know what the flag would look like. Perhaps a plain blue flag to counter the plain red flag of international communism?

Sounds suspiciously like Red Alert mixed with 1984. So, how will the Oceanian flag look like?

 

[Meadow]

Wait, is this even a realistic challenge? How often do non-dynastic polities change their banners without a revolution into to a new and different polity?

You're allowed revolutions, just not ones that create an entirely new state. Kingdom of the French style, I suppose. And it's meant to be hard, I was thinking it over myself and wondering if there are any ways of doing it. Perhaps a bloody, bloody defeat in a *WWI or *WWII that sees the stars and stripes become shamed and tinged with blood?

 

[Thande]

How about some sort of vaguely fascist political movement in the USA that emphasises unitarianism, abolishing the state governments (and the states themselves--uses arbitrary divisions) in favour of the federal government and a version of American nationalism that doesn't allow for regional variations?

Only problem is I guess they would probably change the name to "United State of America", singular.

Might look something like the OTL Chilean flag. Or maybe with a solid red background as just one 'stripe'.

Or perhaps the one star 'Bonnie Blue Flag' which was previously used by the Republic of East Florida, so it has some American history to it.

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

"In 1933, there was an alleged conspiracy to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt by military coup. This was known as the Business Plot, because it involved the industrial and financial elite whose interests were supposedly threatened by the New Deal. The Business Plot became known to the public when retired Marine Corps General Smedley Butler testified to the McCormack-Dickstein Committee of the U.S. Congress that he had been approached by a group of wealthy business interests, led by the Du Pont and J. P. Morgan industrial empires, to orchestrate a fascist coup against Roosevelt"
From Wikipedia

If this coup (attempt) was real and had succeeded, we might see e.g. a Nazi-Germany-like Flag, and the state might still be recognized as the United State(s) of America.
That is not too ASB.

And the constitution might end up as it was in Weimar: in effect, not officially abolished (so your "Constitution Rule" is fulfiled), but not enforced and undermined (See Reichstagsbrandverordnung in Wikipedia, and Ermächtigungsgesetz)

 

[Marc Pasquin]

I read what musimon mentioned and apparently the coup leaders had offered a plenipotentiary post to the general as "Secretary to General Affairs" with the president being a strictly figurehead. I doubt they would have changed the national flag but they might have created one for his post (based on other secretaries flags) and maybe have a State Flag used by the regime with the old one being relegated to civil status.

 

[Plumber]

Fascism is the USA would be very much "wrapped in the flag."

Short of revolution, I could see the Secretary of General Affairs using his personal flag to eventually become dominant to the national flag if they had a big enough ego.

 

[MattII]

Well my original idea had been to drop the number of stars to 13 (arranged in the Francis Hopkinson style), and make the rest of it a wide "checkerboard" pattern, 4 "checks" wide by 14 high.

UUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
UUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
UUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
UUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
UUUUUUUUUWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
UUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRR

 

[fastmongrel]

This is easy just come to your senses admit you were wrong in 1775 and adopt the one true flag
Sorry couldnt resist it was too easy a target

 

[Shawn Driscoll]

The "L" represents the 50 states. The red is America's partnership with the global establishment. The flag's design was in the works in 1982 and replaced our current flag in 1984. But as alternate history would have it, Ronald Reagan was elected President in 1980 instead of Jimmy Carter. So our flag remains unchanged to this day.

 

[titulus regius]

To "lay aside the problems of the past", the US Congress voted to introduce a new national flag, effective January 1, 1900. They chose this date "to welcome in the Twentieth Century", ignorant of the fact that the new century would not commence until January 1, 1901.

A representation of the (relatively) new Statue of Liberty is imposed upon a backgound of 45 squares, one for each of the States of the Union. It was decreed that this flag would remain the same, irrespecive of additional states joining the Union, until a completely new national flag would be created at the beginning of the next century. The Act called for a new flag at the beginning of each successive century.
.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Continuing the idea of the Business Plot succeeding:

After taking power, the new regime not only reversed all new deal policies but reinforce capitalist principles, abolishing workers rights.

In reaction, the outlawed communist and socialist parties in conjunction with unionists form a secret Popular Front which organise an anti-government campaign that eventualy degenerate into a civil war when some members of the military defect to their side.

The Popular Front, now completely under the control of the comintern, wins the conflict and establish the Democratic Federative Republic of America (flag below).

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

Continuing the idea of the Business Plot succeeding:

After taking power, the new regime not only reversed all new deal policies but reinforce capitalist principles, abolishing workers rights.

In reaction, the outlawed communist and socialist parties in conjunction with unionists form a secret Popular Front which organise an anti-government campaign that eventualy degenerate into a civil war when some members of the military defect to their side.

The Popular Front, now completely under the control of the comintern, wins the conflict and establish the Democratic Federative Republic of America (flag below).

that flag is orgasmic

 

[Teshuvah]

To "lay aside the problems of the past", the US Congress voted to introduce a new national flag, effective January 1, 1900. They chose this date "to welcome in the Twentieth Century", ignorant of the fact that the new century would not commence until January 1, 1901.

A representation of the (relatively) new Statue of Liberty is imposed upon a backgound of 45 squares, one for each of the States of the Union. It was decreed that this flag would remain the same, irrespecive of additional states joining the Union, until a completely new national flag would be created at the beginning of the next century. The Act called for a new flag at the beginning of each successive century.
.

No offense man, but that flag is hideous. At least make the squares blue-white or red-white alternating; all three together don't work.

 

[Bulletsfromthegrassyknoll]

2005: after the election of 2000, the Democratics and the commom population push for take down the Electoral College, and in agreement with it "new" USA, the tiny 50 stars of the 50 states are replace by 30 big stars of the 300.000.000 population in the center of the flag and.... I dont know what else.

What the heck???