I'm actually surprised the idea of skipping a weapon wasn't thought of in the early 30's and put into trial. It's almost intuitive - it shouldn't have required a Barnes-Wallis level of genius. You could approach your target with some speed (greater than a torpedo plane) before releasing the bomb/mine. The greater speed also should increase the chance of hitting the target and of survival by the plane and crew.
Especially since torpedo bombers were a thing
 
I'm actually surprised the idea of skipping a weapon wasn't thought of in the early 30's and put into trial. It's almost intuitive - it shouldn't have required a Barnes-Wallis level of genius. You could approach your target with some speed (greater than a torpedo plane) before releasing the bomb/mine. The greater speed also should increase the chance of hitting the target and of survival by the plane and crew.

It's like the small calibre/high velocity assault rifle cartridge, all the ingredients are there long before the technology is developed but you need the circumstances and chance before it can all come together.
 
Well considering that TB planes had problems with breaching torpedoes it does not take much of a spark to illuminate a lightbulb especially as aircraft get bigger and faster.
This is not the Peerless FAA but ITTL Maritime Command will be getting a coupe of Hundred HP Hampdens as torpedo aircraft and marrying that aircraft with the 'Longbow' at low level would IMVHO be a formidable anti-shipping combination in late 1940 early 1941.
 

Glyndwr01

Banned
Well considering that TB planes had problems with breaching torpedoes it does not take much of a spark to illuminate a lightbulb especially as aircraft get bigger and faster.
This is not the Peerless FAA but ITTL Maritime Command will be getting a coupe of Hundred HP Hampdens as torpedo aircraft and marrying that aircraft with the 'Longbow' at low level would IMVHO be a formidable anti-shipping combination in late 1940 early 1941.
What about a 1500lb Disney bomb with wings dropped at low level to smash into a ship?
 
It's like the small calibre/high velocity assault rifle cartridge, all the ingredients are there long before the technology is developed but you need the circumstances and chance before it can all come together.
Most throwing things of any kind is about hitting the target before the bounce. If you can aim a weapon by bouncing it, surely you could just hit the target instead?
Then there is the bomb surviving contact with the water. The bomb not bouncing back up into the plane. Torpedo attacks were considered suicidal anyway because you provided the AA gunners with a nice straight approach. Dive bombing was even stupider which is why you get nice safe level bombing from altitude. And before you laugh, skip, dive, and torpedo bombing died off really quickly post war when the AA targeting improved, so the theory wasn't exactly wrong by many years.
 
And before you laugh, skip, dive, and torpedo bombing died off really quickly post war when the AA targeting improved, so the theory wasn't exactly wrong by many years.
The advent of guided air to surface weapons and their demonstrated effectiveness as anti shipping weapons during the latter half of WWII made such techniques redundant.
 
It's like the small calibre/high velocity assault rifle cartridge, all the ingredients are there long before the technology is developed but you need the circumstances and chance before it can all come together.

It requires quite a paradigm shift by the military to come up with that, it is sort of dependent on someone coming up with the concept of a weapon firing an intermediate cartridge and controllable automatic fire. One of the issues I think is that when smokeless powders were developed a lot of militaries were still using relatively large calibre rounds like 45/70, so they switched to much smaller rounds for magazine rifles in 6-7mm subsequently these were considered poor performers which is why the UK stuck with .303, the French with 8mm, Russia with 7.62 and the Germans with 7.92 as they were all looking to push engagement ranges out as far as possible whilst having nasty terminal ballistics.

IOTL the UK had teams of statisticians and OR types analysing WW2 battlefields as they happened to determine realistic combat ranges ie under 600 yds with most combat in the 50-300 yd bracket. The Germans developed the idea for an intermediate round and saw the advantages such a round for combat. Without all of that research by UK and the practical example of the MP43/44/45 I doubt anyone would have come up with it without a World War.
 
Britain didn't consider a 7mm round poor performing, they'd been shot to pieces by them. The British Army wanted a 7mm round before WWI (.276 Enfield), were interested in the .276 Pedersen round in the thirties and actually adopted (briefly) the .280 in 1951. All different classes of round but sharing the same 7mm calibre.

They kept the .303 until 1957 because of the timing of WWI, poor finances in the 1930's and politics in the 1950's. It had been recognized by the end of the 2nd Boer War that the .303 was obsolescent.
 
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Britain didn't consider a 7mm round poor performing, they'd been shot to pieces by them. The British Army wanted a 7mm round before WWI (.276 Enfield), were interested in the .276 Pedersen round in the thirties and actually adopted (briefly) the .280 in 1951. All different classes of round but sharing the same 7mm calibre.

They kept the .303 until 1957 because of the timing of WWI, poor finances in the 1930's and politics in the 1950's. It had been recognized by the end of the 2nd Boer War that the .303 was obsolescent.

I was talking about the original selection of .303. The fact is the UK kept it way past the point they wanted to change it because the original .276 had all sorts of problems, mainly too hot for actual troop use which didn't get solved until after WW1 then there was no money for a change of calibre. Attempts to go to a autoloading rifle could have resulted in a smaller calibre but the UK wouldn't select a rifle then WW 2 happened, cue lots of attempts to come up with a new rifle ended up with the UK getting 7.62.

It wasn't just the UK that considered a change to a smaller cartridge but few were able to pull it off for a variety of reasons, mostly economic but often bureaucratic resistance.
 
It baffles me why after the Boer War Britain didn't just put a spitzer bullet on the 7mm Mauser cartridge case and say "Job done, now build a rifle to shoot it".
 
It baffles me why after the Boer War Britain didn't just put a spitzer bullet on the 7mm Mauser cartridge case and say "Job done, now build a rifle to shoot it".

It's the British Army, they have never been known for doing the smart thing. The last time they selected the right weapon was the BREN gun and L1A1, Sterling was pretty good too.
 
Originally, the new round was going to be a 6.5mm, but part way through the testing process they upped it to a 7mm and got bogged down testing a huge number of variations of the basic specifications that got more and more extreme through requirement creep.

If they'd bitten the bullet (excuse the pun) and gone with what they were testing in 1909, the British Army might have fought WW1 with a 150 grain, 7x57mm 2799 fps rimless round, but they were chasing the magic 2800+ fps target and kept on stretching the case out to chase the magic number and started having bore erosion issues.

Hindsight is wonderful.
 
The current discussion on small arms calibre wonderfully illustrate one of the joys of writing believable alternate history, that is tuning out OTL history and 20/20 hindsight. Only by doing this trick and by then working decision trees based upon the geopolitical and technical conditions of the time can you hope to come up with plausible alternatives. On my part I find that process exhausting, and the further the time line proceeds from the original POD the greater the effect of 'the law of unintended consequences' has, especially when one of those results in undermining one of your original foundation departure tracks.
 
It baffles me why after the Boer War Britain didn't just put a spitzer bullet on the 7mm Mauser cartridge case and say "Job done, now build a rifle to shoot it".
HM treasury sunk costs we have all this 303 lieing about no ned for a new bullet as well as anew rifle you have how many new rifles since 1860.
 
HM treasury sunk costs we have all this 303 lieing about no ned for a new bullet as well as anew rifle you have how many new rifles since 1860.
Ah, yes the UK treasury... "You have those expensive bayonets, why can't you use those instead of all that pricey ammunition you keep shooting off... what do you mean the other guys are too far away, we bought you all boots, run at them"
 
Ah, yes the UK treasury... "You have those expensive bayonets, why can't you use those instead of all that pricey ammunition you keep shooting off... what do you mean the other guys are too far away, we bought you all boots, run at them"
How the treasury hasn't met a sticky end at the hands of the UK's armed forces at least once is truly a mystery we shall never have the answer to
 
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