AHC: Maximize the Conversions and Peaceful Spread of Christianity Before 7th Century

[Isfendil]

This is exactly as I propose above. This idea comes from when I look at places such as Ethiopia, Syria, or Armenia, who had polities or populations that adopted christianity and made it a part of their culture as opposed to having a colonial power impose its culturally informed faith upon them. As such I would like to ask if it is possible to maximize the peaceful spread and wholesale adoption of Christianity, even moreso than OTL with the Nestorians and the like.

EDIT: Pay close, close attention to the title please. It says Maximize, not plant the seeds for maximization beyond the scope of the time specified. Take this into account before you post.

 

[Isfendil]

I know bumping is bad, but I waited four days.

 

[Timaeus]

Have a Sassanian or a nomadic empire that succeeds it convert to Nestorian Christianity, and have said empire convert the steppe. Keep North Africa Christian, and let it seep into Sub-Saharan Africa like Islam IOTL.

 

[LSCatilina]

Giving that Christianity was particularily tied up, by the Late Antiquity, with Roman cultural and political features, it more or less goes down to how much post-classical Romania (ERE and Barbarian kingdoms, historically) are able to successfully project their influence.
I'm afraid there is still going to have a certain amount of, well, violence, but you could admittedly count on more situation like Kentish conversion (being largely due to Frankish influence) with a PoD past the Vth century, or a situation like conversion of Goths with a PoD allowing the survival of Roman state in the west.

The latter PoD would be more interesting, as you would prevent the collapse of many Barbaricum chiefdoms (simple and complex)* and then enact conversion trough sheer influence on relatively established political-social structures : long story short, a possible quicker Christianisation of Atlantic and Central Europe.

*IOTL collapse of Roman state in the west influenced as far as Scandinavia when it comes to political consequences

 

[Arkenfolm]

Have the St. Thomas Christians convert a Keralan king. If the sect was a bit stronger, and maybe more linked to trade (so stronger Christianity in Arabia), it might be a possibility. This would give Christianity a serious base in India. It would also be helpful to wank the strength of this Keralan kingdom too. I don't know if any other Indian ruler might be likely to convert, although to maximise the spread of Christianity, you'd ideally want a Gujarati or Tamil king to convert to help spread the religion through trade routes.

Perhaps the traders from Kerala can in time foster an Indonesian Christian community far stronger than the small one that existed OTL. Maybe at some point even Christian states in Indonesia. But that's probably gonna be much later down the road.

Although in every case, I'd expect the majority religion to remain Hinduism for at least a few centuries, you'd just strengthening Christianity's position.

Have a Sassanian or a nomadic empire that succeeds it convert to Nestorian Christianity, and have said empire convert the steppe. Keep North Africa Christian, and let it seep into Sub-Saharan Africa like Islam IOTL.

This is the big one. Converting Persia will mean that there's gonna be huge Christian populations across Central Asia and possibly into India.

Although I doubt West Africa will convert by the 7th century.

 

[Timaeus]

Needless to say, you need to butterfly away Islam.

 

[Isfendil]

Needless to say, you need to butterfly away Islam.

Sigh. Please read the very, very short title, and try again.

EDIT: Come on, you already gave an answer to the question too!

 

[Timaeus]

Sigh. Please read the very, very short title, and try again.

EDIT: Come on, you already gave an answer to the question too!

Right, sorry. I got confused for a bit.

Anyway. So, 7th century? I guess it would be killing Islam in the cradle instead. Either way, Islam's presence is a limiting factor to Christianity's peaceful spread in the east, so it has to be curtailed to maximize said spread.

Sorry again~

 

[DominusNovus]

Seems to me that the simplest thing to do is keep the Roman Empire alive and kicking. Any impulse by the Roman government to convert anyone by the sword would be limited, simply because they're pretty much already at their logistical limit of how far they can project their power. For example, Charlemagne could go invade the Saxons to convert them, because he had a much smaller empire to rule, but, from a practical perspective, that same project would be much harder for the Romans, who have to worry about thousands of miles of frontier.

Missionaries would continue to probe beyond the borders, and the government would likely encourage them, as a way to help civilize the barbarians.

 

[Isfendil]

Right, sorry. I got confused for a bit.

Anyway. So, 7th century? I guess it would be killing Islam in the cradle instead. Either way, Islam's presence is a limiting factor to Christianity's peaceful spread in the east, so it has to be curtailed to maximize said spread.

Sorry again~

I am not concerned with what happens beyond the seventh century, as evidenced by the title, bringing up Islam (founded 22 years after the beginning of the seventh century unless it is most likely butterflied out of existence, as you so colourfully put it) in the first place is irrelevant. If you bring it up again, I will ignore the post, I am forewarning you now.

 

[Isfendil]

Seems to me that the simplest thing to do is keep the Roman Empire alive and kicking. Any impulse by the Roman government to convert anyone by the sword would be limited, simply because they're pretty much already at their logistical limit of how far they can project their power. For example, Charlemagne could go invade the Saxons to convert them, because he had a much smaller empire to rule, but, from a practical perspective, that same project would be much harder for the Romans, who have to worry about thousands of miles of frontier.

Missionaries would continue to probe beyond the borders, and the government would likely encourage them, as a way to help civilize the barbarians.

How did Christianity spread to Axum and Armenia? I am just trying to figure out here how missionaries of any kind might be able to spread the faith to new regions much like how Manichean and Buddhist missionaries were able to spread the faith quite effectively to such places as China, Southeast Asia, and Central Asia, and create proper cultural synthesis. Would Romans produce missionaries to that end?

 

[DominusNovus]

How did Christianity spread to Axum and Armenia? I am just trying to figure out here how missionaries of any kind might be able to spread the faith to new regions much like how Manichean and Buddhist missionaries were able to spread the faith quite effectively to such places as China, Southeast Asia, and Central Asia, and create proper cultural synthesis. Would Romans produce missionaries to that end?

Ethiopia by a Roman missionary, Armenia by a local Armenian missionary.

 

[Isfendil]

Ethiopia by a Roman missionary, Armenia by a local Armenian missionary.

Alright, but how does one even dream of sustaining the Roman Empire? Also is it possible for Axum to generate a much stronger missionary base of its own to spread the faith across its portion of Africa? I am assuming Armenia has a strong base already.

 

[DominusNovus]

Alright, but how does one even dream of sustaining the Roman Empire? Also is it possible for Axum to generate a much stronger missionary base of its own to spread the faith across its portion of Africa? I am assuming Armenia has a strong base already.

A stable full-sized Roman Empire is a long discussion with so many possibilities to choose from.

As for Axum? Sure, they could send out missionaries quite readily. Particularly if they weren't isolated by Islam.

 

[Isfendil]

A stable full-sized Roman Empire is a long discussion with so many possibilities to choose from.

As for Axum? Sure, they could send out missionaries quite readily. Particularly if they weren't isolated by Islam.

... Did you mention Islam on purpose?

For future reference to everyone who participates in this thread, the result endpoint date is the beginning of the Seventh century, as is outlined in the title of this thread.

What stopped the Axumites from sending out missionaries before the seventh century?

 

[Indicus]

The best way to do this is to have the Turks convert to Nestorianism. IOTL, prior to the rise of Islam, Central Asia seems to have been a melting pot of religions. There were Buddhists, Nestorians, Zoroastrians, and even a not-insignificant number of Hindus in the region. Have Nestorians conduct a larger amount of conversion in the region, and then have the Turks invade everywhere earlier, somehow. Conceivably, you could see a larger Christian minority in India with such a POD (because Turks pre-Islam seem to have been attracted to India).

Alternatively, extend the amount of maritime trade Christianity has with the east, and you could see it make a minority in South India and Indonesia and post-seventh century, it could make up majorities (though that's after your endpoint).

 

[Isfendil]

The best way to do this is to have the Turks convert to Nestorianism. IOTL, prior to the rise of Islam, Central Asia seems to have been a melting pot of religions. There were Buddhists, Nestorians, Zoroastrians, and even a not-insignificant number of Hindus in the region. Have Nestorians conduct a larger amount of conversion in the region, and then have the Turks invade everywhere earlier, somehow. Conceivably, you could see a larger Christian minority in India with such a POD (because Turks pre-Islam seem to have been attracted to India).

Alternatively, extend the amount of maritime trade Christianity has with the east, and you could see it make a minority in South India and Indonesia and post-seventh century, it could make up majorities (though that's after your endpoint).

There's no upper limit to the goal of maximization. Is it possible that an even earlier polity in the east could somehow convert to Christianity? Thereby facilitating the Turkic conversion? Also is it possible to get a conversion even earlier than Nestorianism? Perhaps even an earlier Roman Empire conversion?

 

[HunterX]

... Did you mention Islam on purpose?

For future reference to everyone who participates in this thread, the result endpoint date is the beginning of the Seventh century, as is outlined in the title of this thread.

What stopped the Axumites from sending out missionaries before the seventh century?

Did you ignore what was written? It's a bit much if you're taking that sentence as ignoring the premise of the thread.

 

[Isfendil]

Did you ignore what was written? It's a bit much if you're taking that sentence as ignoring the premise of the thread.

Never said that. Also it was a bloody two sentence post, and the first sentence was a closed statement. And my proper response is at the end of my post. Seems that I am not the one ignoring what was written here.

 

[HunterX]

Never said that. Also it was a bloody two sentence post, and the first sentence was a closed statement. And my proper response is at the end of my post. Seems that I am not the one ignoring what was written here.

If you think obnoxiousness is going to help produce better discussion, well good luck with that.