Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread

Alaska Hawaii are both part of the P.I.C. (Pseudodemetrian Imperial Commonwealth); basically a transcontinental Russo-Swedish empire largely based on @False Dmitri's claimed titles for himself (as a joke).*

*At least going by this page

That's right. It actually makes some sense for this world to include a Russowank, with both Britain and Anglo-America much weaker. The entire world started out as silly, but I'm trying to make it work.

So Alaska was directly colonized by Russia, while Hawaii passed through the steps of protection, vassalage, colonization, and restored self-government.
 
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The ASB's flag. I've probably made a hundred doodles over the years trying to think of a plausible design. This is the first one I feel comfortable posting, though that does not mean it's the final version. I welcome lots of feedback.

The ASB first felt the need to adopt the flag in 1878 upon the tenth anniversary of the first modern Parliament. The chief minister at the time, William Walker, had a flair for the dramatic and worked to establish the beginning of a Boreoamerican identity. The turtle represents Hah-nu-nah, the Iroquois name for the mythical giant turtle on whose back the North American continent rests. The turtle had been used in government seals for some thirty years by then, but the flag was a much more visible public symbol of the confederation and its emerging nationhood. Green was chosen as the main color not just to represent the land, but also as a symbol of unity. Green was a color not associated with any of the major powers within the ASB, local or foreign. (A number of state flags already used green in this way to represent neutrality or unity.)

asb-flag.png
 
This is basically green Canadian flag with a turtle, eh?
Eh, not really. It's a tricolor with a turtle. If there's any one flag it really looks like, it's Norfolk Island.

I want the design to be very simple to fit 19th century design and to match some of other flags; and I want a turtle. There are only so many possible configurations.
 
Eh, not really. It's a tricolor with a turtle. If there's any one flag it really looks like, it's Norfolk Island.

I want the design to be very simple to fit 19th century design and to match some of other flags; and I want a turtle. There are only so many possible configurations.

I like it a lot.
 
Hello! I have been reading through this thread a lot, and I must say, it is awesome.
About the flag: I would recommend using red, white, and blue stripes and gold stars on the flag. These colors are from the flags of the nation's that colonized the ASB.
 
I love the flag. It works within the setting wonderfully and looks beautiful. Props on both it, and pretty much everything in this thread. :)
 
How many states are there in the ASB?
It happens that there are exactly fifty. It's a coincidence, but it's a coincidence that I like. \\

I'm second-guessing myself now re the flag. I feel that putting the turtle within a circle gives it a certain gravitas that it lacks in the simple tricolor that I posted. I appreciate the feedback on the tricolor... but I'm now thinking about this one instead.

asb-flag3.png
 
It happens that there are exactly fifty. It's a coincidence, but it's a coincidence that I like. \\

I'm second-guessing myself now re the flag. I feel that putting the turtle within a circle gives it a certain gravitas that it lacks in the simple tricolor that I posted. I appreciate the feedback on the tricolor... but I'm now thinking about this one instead.

View attachment 300026
Personally, I like this one more, though I'd be hard pressed to say why.
 
It happens that there are exactly fifty. It's a coincidence, but it's a coincidence that I like. \\

I'm second-guessing myself now re the flag. I feel that putting the turtle within a circle gives it a certain gravitas that it lacks in the simple tricolor that I posted. I appreciate the feedback on the tricolor... but I'm now thinking about this one instead.

View attachment 300026

I think this flag looks way cooler than just a simple tricolor, great work!
 
I honestly don't know about these turtle flags... I like them, but with a heritage as rich as the ASB, I feel like it needs more than just a turtle. Good flag, nonetheless.
 
I honestly don't know about these turtle flags... I like them, but with a heritage as rich as the ASB, I feel like it needs more than just a turtle. Good flag, nonetheless.

Any simple design is going to have to leave something out. I want a clear, easy, adaptable symbol.

I may as well post this third version. I like it, but it might have too much "Native" and not enough "European", maybe better for a tribal than a national flag.

asb-flag4.png
 
The flag of Plymouth is based on its colonial seal. In the original, in each quarter an Indian person knelt against a landscape background and held up a burning heart. The imagery reflected the religious mission of the early colony. It remained in use long after the province had ceased to be exclusively Calvinist. The flag uses the heart symbols while leaving out the human figures and landscapes. A version of it was first flown in 1820, the bicentennial of the founding of Plymouth. It was a time of many public celebrations and renewed interest in the Pilgrim Fathers that helped to build Plymouth's modern identity as a free and Loyal state. It was officially adopted some years later by act of the General Court of Plymouth.

plymouth flag final.png
 
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Hello! I have been reading through this thread a lot, and I must say, it is awesome.
About the flag: I would recommend using red, white, and blue stripes and gold stars on the flag. These colors are from the flags of the nation's that colonized the ASB.

I just realized I never responded to you here. First, thanks for the support. This project is my main creative outlet nowadays and it's mainly for myself (obviously, it's so slow and disorganized), but I'm always happy when it gets a positive response.

The thing with colonial symbols is twofold. First, there are states that are explicitly anti-colonial. Some fought revolutions to throw off colonial rule (Virginia, NH, Vermont, Massachusetts, Bermuda, Cuba, West Dominica). Others didn't have to fight but still declared independence on unfriendly terms (Canada, Louisiana). Others are Indian states that fought for years to resist colonization (Iroquoia, Seminol, Muscogia, Chicasaw). So they're going to want symbols that represent the ASB as a nation, not simply as former colonies.

Second, when you try to represent each nation, some get left out. The colonizers are England, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Scotland, and Sweden... but do the Germans get a symbol, since so many settled in the states? What about the Indian peoples? More recent immigrants not from the original parent countries? Someone gets left out no matter what, and that's why I prefer a single new symbol that everyone can rally around.
 
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Okay, I see where you are going with this.
Out of all of these, I like the second one the
Best. But what does the the turtle mean?
 
Okay, I see where you are going with this.
Out of all of these, I like the second one the
Best. But what does the the turtle mean?

Yeah, that's the clear consensus, if Likes mean anything. :) The turtle is Ha-Nu-Nah, it represents the North American continent in some folklore. The ASB doesn't cover the whole continent, but the turtle is still a symbol that can stand for all the people who share this space.
 
Here it is! The flag of the ASB alongside the 29 states that currently have flags, plus the DNE. (edit: Crap, that's Lower Virginia's flag, not Upper. Well, changing it would involve shifting 18 other flags around. I'll fix it when I design a few more and make the next version.)

ASB FLAGS latest.jpg
 
I just re-read this, and this is still awesome. Some more questions though!
I love what you did with French North-America. The polarization between Canada and Louisiana is awesome, and I love what you did with the Upper Country, this weird network of local and wider alliances that emerges into a state, a mini-ASB of some sort. That's IMO a very good take on what an evolving network of Indians and French Canadians might look like.
But on the other side of the spectrum, what would an alliance between natives and Louisianians look like? Wha, t's happening in the Indian states between Upper and Lower Louisiana?

Also, I'm interested in St-Pierre and Miquelon. IOTL it's already something of an oddity, and actually wasn't even French before the Treaty of Paris, where France was given the islands and lost the rest of New France. It didn't happened ITTL, so how did St-Pierre became French, especially in light of a english Newfouldland? And how did it became an ASB State (it's population IOTL is of 6000 inhabitants)? Was it a part of a treaty in which France renounced to Newfoundland but was given the islands to keep access to the Newfoudlands Banks, as IOTL?

Also, with such a differend history of North American colonization, what happened in the Lesser Antilles? IOTL the british islands gained independance quite late (in the 1950s), the dutch islands are autonomous and the french islands are fully integrated into France, but with the example given by the ASB, I think it would be fair to say the british islands would be tempted to form a Lesser Antilles Confederation, perhaps to be joined by the dutch islands.
But before that, IOTL the Lesser Antilles were hotly contested between France and Britain. ITTL with a weaker England I could see some of the islands remaining french (Dominica at least, perhaps also St-Lucie and St-Vincent) but at the same time, with France still havig Louisiana and Canada, perhaps they would be less interesting in the Antilles (though I'm doubtful of that, France did prefer retaking Martinique than keeping Canada at the Treaty of Paris after all).
Also, Dominica itself is a rather fun place - a very mountainous island, which allowed the Caribs to resist longer to European colonization than any other island: in 1660, France and England abandonned the islands to them, making it officially a "neutral island of the Caribs". Of course this didn't last long, what with the island being right between Martinique and Guadeloupe, and Dominica became officially a French colony, which was lost at the Treaty of Paris, though they would try to retake it until 1814. Today it's the only island with a Carib reserve. Perhaps ITTL the Caribs managed to exploit French and English rivalries (and ASB precedent) to make Dominica a Franco-Carib State?
 
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