A Mexican "Victory" 2.0: A Timeline
- Thread starter jycee
- Start date
good update but any chance you could do a map of where the current front lines sit in
Awesome work on the timeline, I'm enjoying it quite a lot! 
I especially love what you did with that loteria card, lol.
I've been thinking about the possible name change for Monterey, but so far nothing has truly grabbed me. It seems you may be hinting at Mexican victory in California under Pico, and as Geordie suggested naming it after a war hero, maybe it could be him, or also name it Herrera after the president who fought to protect Mexico.
I especially love what you did with that loteria card, lol.
I've been thinking about the possible name change for Monterey, but so far nothing has truly grabbed me. It seems you may be hinting at Mexican victory in California under Pico, and as Geordie suggested naming it after a war hero, maybe it could be him, or also name it Herrera after the president who fought to protect Mexico.
Yeah. I was thinking renaming after Flores. It is a little bit nicer than Pico or Herrera. But keeping it as Monterrey would be a great way to make elementary school students from iTTL suffer while studying geography.
I'm working on some maps, like the one I did for Taylor's campaign. I'll try getting them up during the weekend if I have time.
Awesome work on the timeline, I'm enjoying it quite a lot!
I especially love what you did with that loteria card, lol.
Thanks! Thought the loteria be a great way to get the portraits for all characters up there. Although unfortunately it is hard to find images of most Mexican figures at the time. I wish I had a better one for Herrera.
Here is a map, and brief timeline of the Alta California campaigns. I am not entirely happy with it but it serves as a good visual guide. Due note that because of California's distance to both Washington and Mexico City the events here will be largely inconsequential to the final treaty. (As they were in OTL).
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Sounds good to me.
You should send them to England's own County Durham. We've got (at the very least) Philadelphia, Toronto, Quebec, New York, California and Washington!
Although that last one is the original...
Just what I required, jycee. Thanks.
Jycee,
You can rename Monterrey of California as “Juníper Serra” or “Gaspar de Portolà” to honor its founders (1770). Another option can be “San Carlos Borromeo” in honor of the town’s cathedral, California’s first cathedral. “San Carlos Borromeo” is the oldest continuously functioning church and the first stone building in the State of California.
@ Metacomet. It might be San Carlos but we will see. I need to justify the change at some point.
Anyway:
update
While enjoying cup of chocolate…
General Winfield Scott enjoyed the views of Puebla. The road across the Sierras had been more treacherous than anticipated. Urrea’s forces had chased them all the way to Orizaba forcing him to cross through the most treacherous terrain imaginable. Furthermore diseases had slowed his troops from continuing until the end of the summer. If one was unprepared, the Mexican summer could be quite deceitful [1]. Much in contrast to the Mexican weather, the Bishop had been rather hospitable after they reached Puebla. Fearing the destruction of the city, as it had happened to Monterey, the Bishop had allowed to Scott free passage, as long as the general guaranteed the respect of Church property.
It would have been shameful to have seen such a beautiful city in ruins.
All of a sudden, started raining again. The cover was nice, as was the chocolate. General Scott could care little for Molé, a type of spiced chocolate that had lost all tasteful qualities of both after they’ve been mixed.
News had arrived from the Northern front. It was not good. Taylor’s advance had been halted north Tampico a few weeks back. Now Doniphan had suffered a major defeat in La Angostura, and the Mexican forces threatened to retake Monterrey. That would be devastating. From there the Mexican’s could cut off Taylor from his supply line to Puerto Isabel.
It all depended on Scott’s his ability to reach Mexico City before his troops were exhausted. Stubborn bunch the Mexican’s, the General though. They could have sold Texas and saved themselves the trouble.
Suddenly it stopped raining. It was time to press forward.
“Fifty Four, Forty or Appease?”
“Fifty Four, Forty or Fight”, the expansionist chant could be heard once again all across New England and the Great Lake States. Over the past year negotiations with the British delegation had gone nowhere. Polk had allowed Buchanan to settle the negotiation at the 49th parallel without the need to included Vancouver Island.
The compromise would have been reached had news of skirmishes in the territory had not arrived in Washington just then. The news threw the whole matter into a diplomatic crisis and the longer it continued the more skittish the northern states became.
John C. Calhoun who had previously pushed for a policy of “inactivity”, seemed to have changed his mind arguing that “any policy which allows Britain to fulfill their claims would result in them extending their claims to California”.
Richard Pakenham had a similar view on the United States’ intentions; “America might have had claims over Texas, and even Columbia but it is clear now that they wish dominance over the whole of the continent. They have waged war unfairly against their southern neighbor in hopes of not just annexing the territory in question, [Texas] but California and their northern provinces as well. What is to say these gains will satisfy their appetite? If Britain backs down now she will loose all remaining influence over the continent. The Americans will take Canada, and perhaps one day the entire Anglophone Empire will be ruled from Washington instead of London.”
His claims were certainly farfetched but they where nevertheless heard. Military forces in Canada and the Maritimes were mobilized across the border in case of an American invasion. Oregon might be the prize goal but any serious fighting would be done around the Great Lakes. News of skirmishes in the Oregon Territory between American civilians and British forces had made war a tangible possibility. [2]
Meanwhile the war in Mexico was not going well; a revolt in Victoria had halted Taylor’s advance towards Tampico [2]. President Polk could not afford fighting two wars. Stuck between a rock and a hard place Polk finally conceded to British demands.
The Oregon Treaty was signed on September 21st 1847; it settled the northwestern boundary between the United States and British North America following the Columbia River up to the 49th parallel through which it would continue straight eastwards through the continental divide.
The news was not well received in the Northern States, where Polk was increasingly blamed of catering only to the slaveholding elite and Southern power. The news was even less well received by the Provisional Government of Oregon, a legislative committee drafted by the American settlers that had been centered in Fort Vancouver. When the news arrived they found themselves living on the British side of the border. [2]
With 1848, an election year, approaching, Polk would have to end the war in Mexico as soon as possible letting as it carry into another President’s term would have been unjustifiable. To make matters worse, the stress from the prolonged negotiations with Britain and the quagmire of a war in Mexico had taken a toll on the President’s health…
[1] This is the summer of 1847. The war was nearly over by now in OTL. The American advance has been much slower iTTL. They are going to be trapped in Mexico for some time.
[2] More of these will come later.
Anyway:
update
While enjoying cup of chocolate…
General Winfield Scott enjoyed the views of Puebla. The road across the Sierras had been more treacherous than anticipated. Urrea’s forces had chased them all the way to Orizaba forcing him to cross through the most treacherous terrain imaginable. Furthermore diseases had slowed his troops from continuing until the end of the summer. If one was unprepared, the Mexican summer could be quite deceitful [1]. Much in contrast to the Mexican weather, the Bishop had been rather hospitable after they reached Puebla. Fearing the destruction of the city, as it had happened to Monterey, the Bishop had allowed to Scott free passage, as long as the general guaranteed the respect of Church property.
It would have been shameful to have seen such a beautiful city in ruins.
All of a sudden, started raining again. The cover was nice, as was the chocolate. General Scott could care little for Molé, a type of spiced chocolate that had lost all tasteful qualities of both after they’ve been mixed.
News had arrived from the Northern front. It was not good. Taylor’s advance had been halted north Tampico a few weeks back. Now Doniphan had suffered a major defeat in La Angostura, and the Mexican forces threatened to retake Monterrey. That would be devastating. From there the Mexican’s could cut off Taylor from his supply line to Puerto Isabel.
It all depended on Scott’s his ability to reach Mexico City before his troops were exhausted. Stubborn bunch the Mexican’s, the General though. They could have sold Texas and saved themselves the trouble.
Suddenly it stopped raining. It was time to press forward.
“Fifty Four, Forty or Appease?”
“Fifty Four, Forty or Fight”, the expansionist chant could be heard once again all across New England and the Great Lake States. Over the past year negotiations with the British delegation had gone nowhere. Polk had allowed Buchanan to settle the negotiation at the 49th parallel without the need to included Vancouver Island.
The compromise would have been reached had news of skirmishes in the territory had not arrived in Washington just then. The news threw the whole matter into a diplomatic crisis and the longer it continued the more skittish the northern states became.
John C. Calhoun who had previously pushed for a policy of “inactivity”, seemed to have changed his mind arguing that “any policy which allows Britain to fulfill their claims would result in them extending their claims to California”.
Richard Pakenham had a similar view on the United States’ intentions; “America might have had claims over Texas, and even Columbia but it is clear now that they wish dominance over the whole of the continent. They have waged war unfairly against their southern neighbor in hopes of not just annexing the territory in question, [Texas] but California and their northern provinces as well. What is to say these gains will satisfy their appetite? If Britain backs down now she will loose all remaining influence over the continent. The Americans will take Canada, and perhaps one day the entire Anglophone Empire will be ruled from Washington instead of London.”
His claims were certainly farfetched but they where nevertheless heard. Military forces in Canada and the Maritimes were mobilized across the border in case of an American invasion. Oregon might be the prize goal but any serious fighting would be done around the Great Lakes. News of skirmishes in the Oregon Territory between American civilians and British forces had made war a tangible possibility. [2]
Meanwhile the war in Mexico was not going well; a revolt in Victoria had halted Taylor’s advance towards Tampico [2]. President Polk could not afford fighting two wars. Stuck between a rock and a hard place Polk finally conceded to British demands.
The Oregon Treaty was signed on September 21st 1847; it settled the northwestern boundary between the United States and British North America following the Columbia River up to the 49th parallel through which it would continue straight eastwards through the continental divide.
The news was not well received in the Northern States, where Polk was increasingly blamed of catering only to the slaveholding elite and Southern power. The news was even less well received by the Provisional Government of Oregon, a legislative committee drafted by the American settlers that had been centered in Fort Vancouver. When the news arrived they found themselves living on the British side of the border. [2]
With 1848, an election year, approaching, Polk would have to end the war in Mexico as soon as possible letting as it carry into another President’s term would have been unjustifiable. To make matters worse, the stress from the prolonged negotiations with Britain and the quagmire of a war in Mexico had taken a toll on the President’s health…
[1] This is the summer of 1847. The war was nearly over by now in OTL. The American advance has been much slower iTTL. They are going to be trapped in Mexico for some time.
[2] More of these will come later.
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like any time line with a bigger Canada really hope this timeline continues I really want to see how the Mexicans actually push back the US armies
Canada will be interesting, I can say that the overall goal is to achieve a balance of power in North America (or something a bit more balanced).
Anyway Update:
Verde, Blanco, y Los Colorados!
“You must take Los Colorados to La Angostura; keeping the narrow pass from the Americans is essential to delaying their progress”. Captain Santiago O’Leary read governor Ampudia’s orders. He disliked the term Colorados; it highlighted the Irish weakness against the sun of northern Mexico.
After the first battle of Monterrey, O’Leary and other recent Irish immigrants had followed John Riley in deserting the American army. Officially labled The Foreign Legion, they had adopted several nicknames in the process. General Paredes had assured him that the term colorados carried no disrespect. Still, O'Leary preferred the name San Patricios. He would have also preferred not to be sent to La Angostura, with a notable lack of supplies and ammunition. He was not going to get his wish. A victory at La Angostura would allow the Mexican forces to push Taylor back, possibly even as far north as the Bravo. With a lack of ammunition and supplies, the situation was less than ideal, but he didn’t regret his decision to abandon the American army. The Irish were certain Paredes had only sent them on such a suicide mission because they couldn't possibly dessert twice in the same war.
Regardless, they can’t go back now. They had only win or die. O’Leary hoped to retire in Mexico after the war; somewhere further south where they say it rains there.
“Damn, those Papist traitors. We ought to hang them all”. Taylor could not help but agree with the words of Col. Harney. With both Tampico and La Angostura firmly in Mexican (and the traitor’s) hands, Taylor’s advance had slowed almost stop. From now on Taylor opted for a defensive strategy. By now a connection with Scott’s army via a land route would be impossible to achieve. The war had slowly turned into a quagmire. But Taylor could hold on to Monterrey and Victoria for the time being.
Ultimately, Taylor's defeat did not come from a Mexican ambush; instead, it came from within his own army. After Riley’s victory at La Angostura, morale amongst his men had fallen to an all time low. Their supply line was low and desertion had become rampant. In hopes of making an example, Taylor ordered the hanging of several captured deserters. A punishment Governor Ampudia described as:
“A cruel death of horrible torments, improper in a civilized age, and ironic for a people who claim the title of illustrious and humane”. Ampudia’s letter made it to Mexico City and Puebla, where the news of the atrocities caused major upheaval. Tensions between the Bishop and his American guests would continue to rise until it finally exploded in La Profesa Rebellions.
And in Victoria the hangings provoked the opposite effect Taylor had hoped for. When news spread, the populations of Victoria, and Buena Vista rose in rebellion against the American occupation. Seeing a window of opportunity General Paredes lead his army into Victoria. General Ampudia reached Victoria within a few days and in the 17th of October 1847 Victoria was recaptured by the Mexican army. Now, reaching the Bravo no longer seemed impossible.
And it hadn’t, by the eve of 1848 the Foreign Legion had reached Laredo after defeating Col. Doniphan's Army of The Center in Monclova. This latter victory was mostly psychological. The majority of Taylor’s army was still laid south of Victoria alongside the coast, but it would prove crucial during the peace delegations. The following summer.
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wow things are not going well for America I really don't think public support will last two much longer with high casualties and little gains
Actually, like in OTL, there really hasn't been that many American casualties. The invasion force was relatively small. Riots like the one in Victoria, and the upcoming one in Puebla are actually much more dangerous for the American's than most battles. But yes, public support for the war is starting to go down fast, and in Mexico many residents of occupied towns are growing increasingly annoyed by the occupation.
Anyway here is a map to go with the previous update.
I can only imagine what Polk is thinking as he's getting reports from the front...hehehe
I loved that last update, I'm looking forward to the end of the war and what comes out of the peace treaty.
I loved that last update, I'm looking forward to the end of the war and what comes out of the peace treaty.
jycee
Great to see this being redone. Unfortunately missed the new version until now. Will subscribe.
Sounds like the Mexicans could win in terms of keeping parts of what are now Texas, southern California and much of the land in between, along with not having the humiliating defeats and the millstone to Santa leading them. Possibly they could trade a Rio Bravo border for regaining most/all of California given the unrest in the latter. Although given the constriction of the American position with the different Oregon settlement I suspect the US will be even more determined to hold California. A lot will depend on the internal situation in the US and possibly, from the hints, those dissatisfied Americans who now find themselves Canadians.
Were the Irish rebels operating for the Mexicans an OTL occurs as well? Sounds like their anyway being more significant and that could make a huge difference in later events. If there's a stronger backlash against Irish Catholics then there could be much less settlement in the US with possibly more in Canada and Mexico - especially since this is the period when the famine is at it's height in Ireland. [Actually if the butterflies did mean war with Britain you could see a lot of Irish recruits for the British army as often occurred in earlier conflicts].
A bit confused by the reaction of the Mexicans to Taylor's hanging of captured US deserters? Or are those Irish who fought for Mexico then captured by the US? Otherwise can't see why the Mexicans are so enraged by Taylor hanging his own deserters?
Thanks
Steve
Great to see this being redone. Unfortunately missed the new version until now. Will subscribe.
Sounds like the Mexicans could win in terms of keeping parts of what are now Texas, southern California and much of the land in between, along with not having the humiliating defeats and the millstone to Santa leading them. Possibly they could trade a Rio Bravo border for regaining most/all of California given the unrest in the latter. Although given the constriction of the American position with the different Oregon settlement I suspect the US will be even more determined to hold California. A lot will depend on the internal situation in the US and possibly, from the hints, those dissatisfied Americans who now find themselves Canadians.
Were the Irish rebels operating for the Mexicans an OTL occurs as well? Sounds like their anyway being more significant and that could make a huge difference in later events. If there's a stronger backlash against Irish Catholics then there could be much less settlement in the US with possibly more in Canada and Mexico - especially since this is the period when the famine is at it's height in Ireland. [Actually if the butterflies did mean war with Britain you could see a lot of Irish recruits for the British army as often occurred in earlier conflicts].
A bit confused by the reaction of the Mexicans to Taylor's hanging of captured US deserters? Or are those Irish who fought for Mexico then captured by the US? Otherwise can't see why the Mexicans are so enraged by Taylor hanging his own deserters?
Thanks
Steve
I can only imagine what Polk is thinking as he's getting reports from the front...hehehe
He is not happy. And most Whigs even less. You can count on Taylor's political career being pretty much dead.
Thanks for the support.
Yes, the St. Patrick's battalion was a real thing. And they where actually, perhaps, the most well organized force within the Mexican army. They are even more effective here because as the war prolongs more defect to their ranks and because Paredes & Ampudia, instead of Santa Anna are leading the forces in the north. (In OTL Santa Anna galloped back and forth between both fronts trying to stop both Taylor's and Scott's advance).
Most of the hangings were Irish deserters but not all. Certainly any member of the Irish battalion who is captured is hanged. The way I pictured it is that most Mexican's are not aware of the difference. They know some Catholics were hangged and when the local priest/pariah endorses a rise up against the invaders they follow.
Ampuida's quote is a real quote from OTL, after Scott ordered the hanging of the Irish battalion once Mexico City had been captured. Their hanging and the march of the Mexican Spy Company (Mexican's working under Scott) provoked a three day riot within Mexico City.
And yeah part of the plan is form a large chunk of the future Irish immigration to be drained into Mexico and Canada (mostly Canada) instead of the US.
Update!
Oh Those Troublesome Whigs
The news of Taylor’s failure to take Tampico, and the hasty advance of the Mexican army, and the Foreign Legion, towards the border caused an uproar within the halls of Washington D.C. In response to the prolonged war the Whig Party had voted on a resolution, that while it praised the valor, and skill of the men fighting, it added a clause stating that the war had been “unnecessarily and unconstitutionally begun by the President of the United States”. Abraham Lincoln, a young and fiery Whig, rose to defend the Whig vote by adding, “Allowing the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary, would place the President where kings have always stood.”
Lincoln challenged President Polk to “establish whether the particular spot on which the blood of our citizens was so shed was or was not at the time on our soil. Let the President answer fully, and candidly, with facts and not with arguments. Let him remember he sits where Washington sat, and so remembering, let him answer as Washington would answer.” The young congressman concluded “Again, it is a singular omission in this message, that it, no where intimates when the President expects the war to terminate.” [1]
However the Democratic Party, and the supporters of the war, most whom hailed from the South, held that the war was being fought to secure territory that was justly American. However, this same argument provoked the Northern Democrats who felt cheated out by the Oregon Treaty. Led by John Van Buren, the son of the former President Martin Van Buren (and endorsed by the elderly President), the Northern Democrats also called for a hasty end to the war.
With the election of 1848 approaching, Polk opted to send Nicholas Trist to negotiate a peace with the Mexicans. Trist was given a particularly vague set of instructions urging him to only accept terms that respected all the territory that was rightfully American and/or securely in American hands. For an ardent expansionist like Robert J. Walker, this could have meant anything north of the 26th parallel [2], for a Whig like Lincoln could have meant only the territory that the Mexicans had recognized as part of Texas.
Trist arrived in Veracruz early in March of 1848 [3] and made his way through the American occupied central Mexico to Cuernavaca, where General Scott had camped out for an upcoming siege of the Mexico City Valley.
With the election of 1848 approaching, Polk opted to send Nicholas Trist, to negotiate acceptable terms with the Mexicans.
So how was the war going on exactly?
Before Scott had marched towards Cuernavaca from Puebla, reinforcement had arrived under the command of Giddeon Pillow. From puebla Scott was leading an army of 12,000 men towards the Mexico City Valley. Meanwhile Generals José María Yáñes and José de Urrea lead a force well over twice the size, mostly made up of last minute volunteers. Marshy ground and mountainous terrain had made the American advance slow and cumbersome, but the trek between Puebla and Cuernavaca had been relatively free of engagements besides a skirmish against Joaquín Rea’s militia alongside the Iztaccihuatl pass that, although an American victory, had forced Scott to approach Mexico City from the south via Cuernavaca.
On March 18th, 1848 Scott led the American army into the valley of Mexico, the resulting Battle of Milpa Alta, was the bloodiest in the war. Scott was not only facing the Mexican army under Urrea and Yáñes, but a last minute volunteer force of Mexico City’s residents led by President Herrera. This was the only battle President Herrera was present in. In the end both sides claimed a victory. The Mexican army had stopped Scott from advancing into Churubusco and possibly Mexico City itself, while Scott had managed to set his foot inside the Mexico City Valley. However, the losses of suffered on the American side prevented him from pressing forward. Thus Scott had no difficulty accepting a temporary armistice when President Herrera offered his terms for peace.
Herrera’s terms recognized the United States’ sovereignty over Texas, but established the border at the Nueces and Pecos Rivers, respecting the established jurisdiction of the Mexican departments of Tmaulipas, Coahuila, and Chihuahua. Form the source of the Pecos River [4]; the border would follow a straight line up to the 37th parallel and a straight line westwards towards the Pacific Ocean. This border would have placed; the much sought after, San Francisco Bay in American hands but would have kept Monterrey Bay within Mexico. [5]
General Scott however had problems with these demands. His army lay at the doorstep of Mexico City; even if Taylor was pushed back to the Bravo he was certain that the occupation of Mexico City would force the Mexicans to secede the whole of the territory in question. Furthermore, Trist took a more extreme approach to his instructions, and insisted that he had not been authorized to accept such terms.
With the arrival of Giddeon Pillow’s reinforcements Scott opted to wait out the short armistice and continue onto Mexico City. However, when Pillow’s troops arrived in Puebla something unexpected happened… and Winfield Scott was trapped within Mexico with no supply line.
[1] This is a paraphrase of the actual speech Lincoln gave condemning the war.
[2] This would basically include all the northern Mexican provinces usually seen annexed in most Ameri-wanks.
[3] This is happening after Taylor is defeated in Tampico but before he looses his hold of Victoria.
[1] A bit north of OTL’s Roswell, NM.
[5] Herrera had actually presented a very similar proposal to the Mexican Congress at the start of the war in OTL. After the Battle of Churubusco Santa Anna once again offered these terms to Scott, who like in TTL refused to accept.
Oh Those Troublesome Whigs
The news of Taylor’s failure to take Tampico, and the hasty advance of the Mexican army, and the Foreign Legion, towards the border caused an uproar within the halls of Washington D.C. In response to the prolonged war the Whig Party had voted on a resolution, that while it praised the valor, and skill of the men fighting, it added a clause stating that the war had been “unnecessarily and unconstitutionally begun by the President of the United States”. Abraham Lincoln, a young and fiery Whig, rose to defend the Whig vote by adding, “Allowing the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary, would place the President where kings have always stood.”
Lincoln challenged President Polk to “establish whether the particular spot on which the blood of our citizens was so shed was or was not at the time on our soil. Let the President answer fully, and candidly, with facts and not with arguments. Let him remember he sits where Washington sat, and so remembering, let him answer as Washington would answer.” The young congressman concluded “Again, it is a singular omission in this message, that it, no where intimates when the President expects the war to terminate.” [1]
However the Democratic Party, and the supporters of the war, most whom hailed from the South, held that the war was being fought to secure territory that was justly American. However, this same argument provoked the Northern Democrats who felt cheated out by the Oregon Treaty. Led by John Van Buren, the son of the former President Martin Van Buren (and endorsed by the elderly President), the Northern Democrats also called for a hasty end to the war.
With the election of 1848 approaching, Polk opted to send Nicholas Trist to negotiate a peace with the Mexicans. Trist was given a particularly vague set of instructions urging him to only accept terms that respected all the territory that was rightfully American and/or securely in American hands. For an ardent expansionist like Robert J. Walker, this could have meant anything north of the 26th parallel [2], for a Whig like Lincoln could have meant only the territory that the Mexicans had recognized as part of Texas.
Trist arrived in Veracruz early in March of 1848 [3] and made his way through the American occupied central Mexico to Cuernavaca, where General Scott had camped out for an upcoming siege of the Mexico City Valley.
With the election of 1848 approaching, Polk opted to send Nicholas Trist, to negotiate acceptable terms with the Mexicans.
So how was the war going on exactly?
Before Scott had marched towards Cuernavaca from Puebla, reinforcement had arrived under the command of Giddeon Pillow. From puebla Scott was leading an army of 12,000 men towards the Mexico City Valley. Meanwhile Generals José María Yáñes and José de Urrea lead a force well over twice the size, mostly made up of last minute volunteers. Marshy ground and mountainous terrain had made the American advance slow and cumbersome, but the trek between Puebla and Cuernavaca had been relatively free of engagements besides a skirmish against Joaquín Rea’s militia alongside the Iztaccihuatl pass that, although an American victory, had forced Scott to approach Mexico City from the south via Cuernavaca.
On March 18th, 1848 Scott led the American army into the valley of Mexico, the resulting Battle of Milpa Alta, was the bloodiest in the war. Scott was not only facing the Mexican army under Urrea and Yáñes, but a last minute volunteer force of Mexico City’s residents led by President Herrera. This was the only battle President Herrera was present in. In the end both sides claimed a victory. The Mexican army had stopped Scott from advancing into Churubusco and possibly Mexico City itself, while Scott had managed to set his foot inside the Mexico City Valley. However, the losses of suffered on the American side prevented him from pressing forward. Thus Scott had no difficulty accepting a temporary armistice when President Herrera offered his terms for peace.
Herrera’s terms recognized the United States’ sovereignty over Texas, but established the border at the Nueces and Pecos Rivers, respecting the established jurisdiction of the Mexican departments of Tmaulipas, Coahuila, and Chihuahua. Form the source of the Pecos River [4]; the border would follow a straight line up to the 37th parallel and a straight line westwards towards the Pacific Ocean. This border would have placed; the much sought after, San Francisco Bay in American hands but would have kept Monterrey Bay within Mexico. [5]
General Scott however had problems with these demands. His army lay at the doorstep of Mexico City; even if Taylor was pushed back to the Bravo he was certain that the occupation of Mexico City would force the Mexicans to secede the whole of the territory in question. Furthermore, Trist took a more extreme approach to his instructions, and insisted that he had not been authorized to accept such terms.
With the arrival of Giddeon Pillow’s reinforcements Scott opted to wait out the short armistice and continue onto Mexico City. However, when Pillow’s troops arrived in Puebla something unexpected happened… and Winfield Scott was trapped within Mexico with no supply line.
[1] This is a paraphrase of the actual speech Lincoln gave condemning the war.
[2] This would basically include all the northern Mexican provinces usually seen annexed in most Ameri-wanks.
[3] This is happening after Taylor is defeated in Tampico but before he looses his hold of Victoria.
[1] A bit north of OTL’s Roswell, NM.
[5] Herrera had actually presented a very similar proposal to the Mexican Congress at the start of the war in OTL. After the Battle of Churubusco Santa Anna once again offered these terms to Scott, who like in TTL refused to accept.
wow so it could be another US army defeated then, I am guessing a massive uprising occurs in the occupied territories breaking his supply line, and then the USA can only take the minimum amount of land really and I really do not think that Texas will have a Southern border at the Rio grande
jycee
Intriguing cliff-hanger. Possibly as zeppelin247 says a massive uprising. Another option, although unlikely, might be something, such as the outstanding issues in Oregon, triggering conflict with Britain. That would definitely isolate the US army pretty quickly once the RN got into place but that would take some time so I think an internal rebellion is more likely. [Another option might be a natural disaster like a volcano or hurricane cutting the supply routes but, unless something like that happened OTL that would have to be considered virtually ASB]. Might be that the group of collaborators that Scott had been using decide their backed the wrong horse and suddenly turn patriot and help crush any American troops on the supply lines.
Presuming it's a major rebellion then how trapped is trapped. If his supply line is simply cut by the rebellion he might be forced into a hazardous retreat back to Vera Cruz. Which would be humiliating and probably pretty costly but not too damaging although it would force a revising of the peace terms. However if they are totally trapped and forced to surrender this would really change things.
Either way one thing that might go wrong is if Mexico, angry at the invasions and their expectations boosted after Scotts defeat/withdrawal decide on radically different terms. Given the political situation in the US they might force a major climb down for the US, including the return of all California but they might just unite American feeling to continue the war. Would love to see Mexico get away with only minor concessions in Texas but may not be practical.
Intriguing cliff-hanger. Possibly as zeppelin247 says a massive uprising. Another option, although unlikely, might be something, such as the outstanding issues in Oregon, triggering conflict with Britain. That would definitely isolate the US army pretty quickly once the RN got into place but that would take some time so I think an internal rebellion is more likely. [Another option might be a natural disaster like a volcano or hurricane cutting the supply routes but, unless something like that happened OTL that would have to be considered virtually ASB]. Might be that the group of collaborators that Scott had been using decide their backed the wrong horse and suddenly turn patriot and help crush any American troops on the supply lines.
Presuming it's a major rebellion then how trapped is trapped. If his supply line is simply cut by the rebellion he might be forced into a hazardous retreat back to Vera Cruz. Which would be humiliating and probably pretty costly but not too damaging although it would force a revising of the peace terms. However if they are totally trapped and forced to surrender this would really change things.
Either way one thing that might go wrong is if Mexico, angry at the invasions and their expectations boosted after Scotts defeat/withdrawal decide on radically different terms. Given the political situation in the US they might force a major climb down for the US, including the return of all California but they might just unite American feeling to continue the war. Would love to see Mexico get away with only minor concessions in Texas but may not be practical.