Not at all, the ships of the period that the Irish used were capable of making a crossing to the North American shore. Tim Severin, a British historian, made such a journey after constructing an authentic replica of an early middle-ages Irish vessel. It took him two months to reach Newfoundland.
A Free Ireland: A TL where Brian Boru lives.
- Thread starter Enigmajones
- Start date
Falkenburg
Monthly Donor
Coracles? Across the Atlantic? 
Brave but foolish. It would seem such a feat is possible.
However, it seems far more likely that adoption of Norse ship patterns leads to exploration of existing trade routes along the Northern Rim, reaching 'Hy Brasil' that way.
Falkenburg
Brave but foolish. It would seem such a feat is possible.
However, it seems far more likely that adoption of Norse ship patterns leads to exploration of existing trade routes along the Northern Rim, reaching 'Hy Brasil' that way.
Falkenburg
An Irish currach can run much larger than a Welsh coracle, the larger ones having sails alongside oars. Though as I understand it the largest varieties fitted with sails were a later invention.Coracles? Across the Atlantic?
Brave but foolish. It would seem such a feat is possible.
However, it seems far more likely that adoption of Norse ship patterns leads to exploration of existing trade routes along the Northern Rim, reaching 'Hy Brasil' that way.
Falkenburg
Coracles? Across the Atlantic?
Brave but foolish. It would seem such a feat is possible.
However, it seems far more likely that adoption of Norse ship patterns leads to exploration of existing trade routes along the Northern Rim, reaching 'Hy Brasil' that way.
Falkenburg
A curragh is not the same as a coracle, and is of much better quality.
The new Irish navy is mostly designed for coastal defense and at the moment there will be no reason for the Irish to conduct a costly expedition to a land that is not even confirmed to exist. Although Ireland may hear of Vinland, Irish colonization is most likely to occur in the Faroes.
The Reign of Niall: 1056-1081
When Niall O'Brien took the reigns of the throne of Ireland, the Anglo-Celtic Isles were about to be radically changed. In Alba, King Mac Bethad, laid claim to the Earldom of Orkney, in violation of Thorfinn the Mighty's reign. Althoiugh war seemed imminent, an Irish priest present with the troops that worked in the service the Earl of Orkney. The priest is reported to have requested on the behalf on Christendom to cease and desist. Mac Bethad took offense that a foreign land would dare meddle in his affairs. Regardless of the legends, what is known is that Mac Bethad beheaded the priest and sent the head to Thorfinn with a declaration of war.
As construction began in Alba on Mac Bethads fleet, word reached Atha Cliath via Orcanian messengers of Thorfinn, of the act of war perpetrated by the Alban monarch. Niall, eager to win a victory of his own dispatched several of the An Baid to deal with the Alban fleet. According to popular legend of the time, they met with an Orcanian fleet, the Irish and Orcanian fleet arrived at the mouth of the Uisge For and made battle with the fleet of Alban ships. Although outnumbered the Orcanians and the Irish managed to defeat the Alban force. The resulting loss forced Mac Bethad to declare suicide.
In reality, the "Battle of Uisge For" was a lopsided raid. Due to construction difficulties and a bad storm a month before, the Alban fleet was largely unbuilt and the ships that were in the water had taken on some water damage. Meanwhile the Orcanian-Irish fleet was well manned and prepared. When they found the Albans unprepared they attacked and destroyed the fleet and launched a raid all along the coast of eastern Alba. The resulting chaos allowed Mael Coluim mac Donnchada to seize the throne from Mac Bethad in 1057. Mael Coluim was eager to respect the old alliance with the Irish and the Orcanians.
With this small victory, Niall gained respect from his countrymen and his contemporaries in the Anglo-Celtic Isles. As trade continued to grow so did Irish ports and Atha Cliath became home to the completed stone Castle O'Brien and the first hospital in Ireland. Niall also donated land to the Catholic Church in Ireland building new churches throughout the kingdom. The first rudimentary roads were built between Corcaigh, Luimneach, Port Laigre and Atha Cliath. Niall also began to extend Imperial power in Ulster with the development of of a base for the An Baid in Carraig Fhearghais. Niall would be remembered as a great leader when he died at age 66 in his sleep in 1081.
When Niall O'Brien took the reigns of the throne of Ireland, the Anglo-Celtic Isles were about to be radically changed. In Alba, King Mac Bethad, laid claim to the Earldom of Orkney, in violation of Thorfinn the Mighty's reign. Althoiugh war seemed imminent, an Irish priest present with the troops that worked in the service the Earl of Orkney. The priest is reported to have requested on the behalf on Christendom to cease and desist. Mac Bethad took offense that a foreign land would dare meddle in his affairs. Regardless of the legends, what is known is that Mac Bethad beheaded the priest and sent the head to Thorfinn with a declaration of war.
As construction began in Alba on Mac Bethads fleet, word reached Atha Cliath via Orcanian messengers of Thorfinn, of the act of war perpetrated by the Alban monarch. Niall, eager to win a victory of his own dispatched several of the An Baid to deal with the Alban fleet. According to popular legend of the time, they met with an Orcanian fleet, the Irish and Orcanian fleet arrived at the mouth of the Uisge For and made battle with the fleet of Alban ships. Although outnumbered the Orcanians and the Irish managed to defeat the Alban force. The resulting loss forced Mac Bethad to declare suicide.
In reality, the "Battle of Uisge For" was a lopsided raid. Due to construction difficulties and a bad storm a month before, the Alban fleet was largely unbuilt and the ships that were in the water had taken on some water damage. Meanwhile the Orcanian-Irish fleet was well manned and prepared. When they found the Albans unprepared they attacked and destroyed the fleet and launched a raid all along the coast of eastern Alba. The resulting chaos allowed Mael Coluim mac Donnchada to seize the throne from Mac Bethad in 1057. Mael Coluim was eager to respect the old alliance with the Irish and the Orcanians.
With this small victory, Niall gained respect from his countrymen and his contemporaries in the Anglo-Celtic Isles. As trade continued to grow so did Irish ports and Atha Cliath became home to the completed stone Castle O'Brien and the first hospital in Ireland. Niall also donated land to the Catholic Church in Ireland building new churches throughout the kingdom. The first rudimentary roads were built between Corcaigh, Luimneach, Port Laigre and Atha Cliath. Niall also began to extend Imperial power in Ulster with the development of of a base for the An Baid in Carraig Fhearghais. Niall would be remembered as a great leader when he died at age 66 in his sleep in 1081.
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Woah, if you're claiming the historical McBeth would murder a priest, I'd just like to point out that historically its very unlikely. The man was a pious Catholic who made a pilgrimage to Rome one of the defining endeavours of his reign. And whether or not he even came into conflict with Thorfinn is far from historical fact, and if it did happen at all it was just as likely to have been Duncan who was the 'Karl Hundarson' referred to in the dispute I assume you are basing this on.
All history is disputed. Im merely basing the history on what I've heard. Also much of ancient history is legend. The Irish excuse for going to war was more in defense of the Orcanians and it would have been against any King of Alba, but I thought Macbeth was a cooler enemy.
Its not an Eire sank, although it very well could become one. I have not yet worked out the kinks.
The historical McBeth was a decent guy though, so it isn't really fitting with his historical character. Shakespearean character yes, but not the national one. And based on both historical and Shakespearen readings of the character I don't see him as the sort to go for suicide. A suicidal last stand, but not a slit yer rwists in a warm bath tub kind of guy.
Now Duncan would be much more fitting. He was something of a youthful warmonger, who flaunted tradition and made grabs for power through out his short and bloody reign. I could very easily see a more established, successful Duncan making grabs for territories outside his domain, and doing something as shocking as murdering an ambassador of peace and representative of the church if such an individual angered him. Considering he is also the other likely contender for the role of Karl Hundason, and his reputation is more fitting of the reputation the 'Cur' of the Orkneyinga Saga, I'd say he would historically make a better fit as enemy of the fledgling Irish kingdom.
MacBeth's status as a villain is one of the gravest character assassinations Shakespeare ever committed, in my opinion. While I'm not against him taking the role of agressor or 'bad guy', the events here may as well have him twirling a moustache while tying a young maid to some train tracks.
This is just my opinion though, ignore it if you want, I just thought I'd throw some stuff out there. Its your thing after all.
Thanks for your opinion. Its appreciated but Duncan is already dead at this stage. From this point on I'll try my hardest to keep up with Scottish characters. But with the butterflies that will be resulting not much history will remain relevant. By the way the way Mac Bhetad is portrayed in this is from the Irish side of history. What occurs is essentially an Irish-Orcanian Raid on Alba. I agree with you on Macbeth by the way, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.
Falkenburg
Monthly Donor
Nice way to expand Irish influence.
As appealing as a Fleet Base at Belfast seems, Carrickfergus or Larne might be a better choice at this point in time.
As time and technology progress, Belfast may become more suitable but just for the moment I'd lean towards one of the others.
Falkenburg
As appealing as a Fleet Base at Belfast seems, Carrickfergus or Larne might be a better choice at this point in time.
As time and technology progress, Belfast may become more suitable but just for the moment I'd lean towards one of the others.
Falkenburg
Nice way to expand Irish influence.
As appealing as a Fleet Base at Belfast seems, Carrickfergus or Larne might be a better choice at this point in time.
As time and technology progress, Belfast may become more suitable but just for the moment I'd lean towards one of the others.
Falkenburg
Noted and changed. I will have Beal Feirste!
Looking forward to it
Falkenburg
Well look forward to a Norman-Irish War in the nearby future.