Discussion: Comparing British and German industries 1900-1940

[Thomas1195]

I realised I just made a terrible error, the Vickers Machine Gun Factory at Crayford was the small one.
The Vickers Factory at Erith employed over 14,500 workers, at the same time Vickers Limited also had multiple shipyards, Aircraft Plants, Steel works and factories producing everything from Helmets to 18 Inch Artillery.

The largest single employer in British Industrial History was Royal Ordnance Factories in WWII with some 311,932 workers as of March 1942.

With 40,000 at just one site ROF Bridgend, chosen deliberately for its remoteness, hence difficulty to bomb, yet with excellent transportation and logistics. Right next to the main rail-line, with easy access to Best Welsh Anthracite for power ... no need for an electrical grid, and the Port Talbot Steelworks.
A 900 Acre (3.6 sq. km) site with over 100 buildings

The reason for the great spacing and dispersal of buildings was simple. It was a Munitions Filling Factory, and although there was never a single accident it was always a serious concern. Interestingly it was a temporary installation, it opened at the start of WW2 and closed at the end.

Also not the largest single Munitions plant in British history, that would be the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich in WW1. 80,000 workers on a 1,285 Acre (5.2 sq. km) site. Post war it was scaled back and during WW2 production was moved to a larger number of, slightly, smaller factories that weren't being bombed!

Of course during wartime they must hire more workers.

Vickers shipyards, they might be the exception, most other shipyards in Britain were too small and too obsolete.

 

[Astrodragon]

Of course during wartime they must hire more workers.

Vickers shipyards, they might be the exception, most other shipyards in Britain were too small and too obsolete.

The stupidity is strong in this one...

These were the small and obsolete shipyards that, in the 30's, were the most efficient shipbuilders (tons/man-hour) in the WORLD.

 

[CalBear]

The stupidity is strong in this one...

These were the small and obsolete shipyards that, in the 30's, were the most efficient shipbuilders (tons/man-hour) in the WORLD.

Congratulations. You managed to lose the entire counter argument by starting off with an insult.

Play the ball folks.

 

[Thomas1195]

Ah yes, terribly slow. Slow enough to make all those train speed records...

Even British railroads (I mean the rail type) were outdated by 1900, because of the lunatic Gladstonian policies (which are currently known as austerity).

 

[Antiochus V]

Even British railroads (I mean the rail type) were outdated by 1900, because of the lunatic Gladstonian policies (which are currently known as austerity).

I always feel it is dangerous to judge Britain's railway history purely based on a few trips on Southern Trains

 

[Thomas1195]

I always feel it is dangerous to judge Britain's railway history purely based on a few trips on Southern Trains

Britain did not adopted flat-bottomed rails as their main standard until 1950s, while other countries in US or Continentail Europe, well, had used them since the late 19th century.

 

[Thomas1195]

Well, you do realize that during world war 1, German made precision tools like scopes, rangefinder, binoculars, barb wire cutting tools..., as well as electrical kits like field telephones were often superior.

 

[Thomas1195]

I do realize that one small event could make Britain lose ww1: Asquith did not resign.

 

[RodentRevolution]

Well, you do realize that during world war 1, German made precision tools like scopes, rangefinder, binoculars, barb wire cutting tools..., as well as electrical kits like field telephones were often superior.

We went over this in previous portions of this thread, you are mixing up things the Germans actually were superior in like sniper scopes with things that a definitive superiority for either side is not entirely clear cut like rangefinders and then adding things like wire cutters and field telephones where the British were much better able to meet the supply needs of their forces than the Germans. A field telephone that works and is in your hands is far more useful than one with bells and whistles which is sitting on the floor of the Siemens factory in bits.

 

[sparky42]

A field telephone that works and is in your hands is far more useful than one with bells and whistles which is sitting on the floor of the Siemens factory in bits.

Or requires someone from Siemens to actually get the thing to work in the Field...

 

[Thomas1195]

We went over this in previous portions of this thread, you are mixing up things the Germans actually were superior in like sniper scopes with things that a definitive superiority for either side is not entirely clear cut like rangefinders and then adding things like wire cutters and field telephones where the British were much better able to meet the supply needs of their forces than the Germans. A field telephone that works and is in your hands is far more useful than one with bells and whistles which is sitting on the floor of the Siemens factory in bits.

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the german to intercept?

Well, another thing, not related to wars, was that even British railroads (I mean the rail type) were outdated by 1900 (bullheads vs flat-bottomed rails - Britain only adopted the latter in 1950s, far slower than its Continental rivals). Well, I think because of the lunatic Gladstonian policies (which are currently known as austerity).

And you do know that a game-changing event for Britain was the resign of Asquith (if not, then Britain would be unlikely to win).

 

[Mike D]

Well, another thing, not related to wars, was that even British railroads (I mean the rail type) were outdated by 1900

Yet the fastest steam locomotive in recorded history was British...

 

[teg]

Yet the fastest steam locomotive in recorded history was British...

In fairness, Mallard was operating at quite literally the pinnacle of its possible performance and it was going downhill. There was at least one German locomotive, I can't which, which approached Mallard's speeds and wasn't going downhill.

I'm not really sold on the reason why the slow adoption of flat-bottomed rails proves Britain's railways were obsolete/outdated by 1900 as the only difference I have been able to uncover between the two is that bullheaded rails are not reusable.

teg

 

[sparky42]

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the German to intercept because they were too basic?

Well, another thing, not related to wars, was that even British railroads (I mean the rail type) were outdated by 1900 (bullheads vs flat-bottomed rails - Britain only adopted the latter in 1950s, far slower than its Continental rivals). Well, I think because of the lunatic Gladstonian policies (which are currently known as austerity).

And you do know that a game-changing event for Britain was the resign of Asquith (if not, then Britain would be unlikely to win).

You seem to have a habit of reposting things, and when challenged moving on and repeating them until you move again.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Yet the fastest steam locomotive in recorded history was British...

That's partially because the USA and most European countries scrapped their steam locomotives about a decade before the British did.

However, to be fair the main reason the British railways kept steam locomotives for so long was the usual one, i.e. no money to pay for its replacement by diesel or electric traction. The secondary reason was that several major electrification schemes were delayed or abandoned completely by the World Wars.

The archives of Britain's railway museums are full of feasibility studies for electrification schemes that were never carried out, which date from the early 1900s to the 1950s. Therefore the desire was there, but the money to pay for it was not.

 

[Caspian]

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the German to intercept because they were too basic?

Is this supposed to be a problem?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the German to intercept because they were too basic?

Simplicity is a virtue in field equipment. It implies that it is robust, reliable and easy to repair when it does break down so that a Tommy could fix it in the field. Complexity means more things can go wrong, which means it takes longer to find the fault and longer to repair if one had the necessary skill and the spare parts to do it with, which probably means sending it back to a depot to be repaired.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the German to intercept because they were too basic?

This reminds me of a scene in the 1980s docudrama about David Lloyd George.

There was a scene where he was at a conference in Paris. He was flirting with a Breton chamber maid until they were disturbed by one of his civil servants who told him that they could not send the dispatches back to London because the Germans were tapping the telephone lines. His reply was that he would read them to his secretary in London. When asked what good that would do he replied...

"I'll be speaking to him in Welsh!"

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the German to intercept because they were too basic?

P.S. that sentence contains a tautology because simple and basic are synonyms. You only needed to write...

Do you know that British field telephones were too simple for the Germans to intercept?

 

[BooNZ]

Simplicity is a virtue in field equipment. It implies that it is robust, reliable and easy to repair when it does break down so that a Tommy could fix it in the field. Complexity means more things can go wrong, which means it takes longer to find the fault and longer to repair if one had the necessary skill and the spare parts to do it with, which probably means sending it back to a depot to be repaired.

That reminds me of an old Dog & Lemon car guide, which stated (something like) if you cannot afford a new German motor vehicle, you certainly cannot afford a second hand German motor vehicle.