Turtledove's Worldwar/Colonisation: Relevant British Empire after invasion of Tosev 3

[Ilúphatar]

I think Turtledove missed an opportunity when he didn't have Britain ally with the Race.

They are a proper Empire after all, the Race should see them as one of the best of the great powers (Japan could be better, but Japan also mistreats Race prisoners fairly abominably).

It would require some work to set up, perhaps the Americans get pretty keen on decolonization of Britain's remaining territories, or start a trade dispute with Canada, or sell out too much for a German alliance, I don't know.

I just think it would have been an interesting move, and not totally implausible though it would have required some serious thought to figure out what sort of British government would make such an alliance, and how to get them.

You mean willingly, like Finland? Never actually though of that. An interesting idea.

I'm not entirely sure why Britain went pro-German rather than pro-American post war, since it makes so little sense. I see an Anglo-Race alliance as more likely, perhaps in return for concessions to Britain in its former colonies or something.

 

[oshron]

You mean willingly, like Finland? Never actually though of that. An interesting idea.

I'm not entirely sure why Britain went pro-German rather than pro-American post war, since it makes so little sense. I see an Anglo-Race alliance as more likely, perhaps in return for concessions to Britain in its former colonies or something.

the gist of it to me seemed to be that it was just a consequence of Britain being so geographically close to Nazi-dominated Europe: the Germans' ideology just started seeping in through osmosis.

 

[Ilúphatar]

the gist of it to me seemed to be that it was just a consequence of Britain being so geographically close to Nazi-dominated Europe: the Germans' ideology just started seeping in through osmosis.

That seems... strange. Especially since many, many Britons had died as a result of Nazi bombings or on the ground as a soldier. I don't doubt that you may be right, however.

 

[oshron]

That seems... strange. Especially since many, many Britons had died as a result of Nazi bombings or on the ground as a soldier. I don't doubt that you may be right, however.

that was the impression i got from the chapters with David Goldfarb's POV, at least (i've only read the first book in that sub-series so far)

 

[Ilúphatar]

that was the impression i got from the chapters with David Goldfarb's POV, at least (i've only read the first book in that sub-series so far)

I haven't read Colonisation, unfortunately. I have finished the Worldwar series, however.

Anyway, cultural diffusion into Britain would definitely come from America, not Germany. The language issue alone makes a fascistic ideology unlikely to cross the Channel.

 

[oshron]

I haven't read Colonisation, unfortunately. I have finished the Worldwar series, however.

Anyway, cultural diffusion into Britain would definitely come from America, not Germany. The language issue alone makes a fascistic ideology unlikely to cross the Channel.

of course, Britain did already have Mosley within their borders so he might've had something to do with it ITTL *checks Turtledove Wiki* looks like it was because of Mosley

http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/Oswald_Mosley#Oswald_Mosley_in_Worldwar

 

[JohnR]

I think its clear from this series (and other Turtledove books) that he has a pretty poor view of Britain, and always seems to paint the UK in a bad light, regardless of how realistic that is.

I cant see the UK becoming a German satellite anytime after 1940. Its ASB territory. Now - you could make changes to things in the 30s which could help - but thats not the premise in this series. And even then, its more likely to become its own pseudo-fascist dictatorship than a satellite of the Nazis.

 

[Ilúphatar]

of course, Britain did already have Mosley within their borders so he might've had something to do with it ITTL *checks Turtledove Wiki* looks like it was because of Mosley

http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/Oswald_Mosley#Oswald_Mosley_in_Worldwar

Still seems strange, especially as Mosley was imprisoned during the war against Germany (I think?). Mainstream British politics is rarely far-right, at most being simply staunch conservative.

I think its clear from this series (and other Turtledove books) that he has a pretty poor view of Britain, and always seems to paint the UK in a bad light, regardless of how realistic that is.

I cant see the UK becoming a German satellite anytime after 1940. Its ASB territory. Now - you could make changes to things in the 30s which could help - but thats not the premise in this series. And even then, its more likely to become its own pseudo-fascist dictatorship than a satellite of the Nazis.

Quite. The 'Big Switch' in 'The War That Came Early', for example - complete nonsense. Though he appears more favourable in 'Ruled Britannia', I suppose.

It's very difficult for Britain to become a satellite of Germany, simply because Britain with its Empire was unquestionably a superpower. Without its Empire, it would have the backing of the United States, Canada and New Zealand (ITTL), and would never contemplate allying with a power that dominates the European continent.