Rank Insignia and Uniforms Thread

[Hapsburg]

Hapsburg, That looks good. It's an interesting mix of Naval and Army officer ranks. Are you going to display your navy ranks?

I did, a few pages back.
Navy, Coast Guard, and Space Forces all use the same insignia, and Navy and Coast Guard have the same rating and rank names.
Despite not being part of the Naval Service, but due to its historical origins in the Space Navy Hospital Corps, the Terran Empire and then the CGU's civilian universal healthcare service has uniformed officers and they wear Naval uniforms and insignia and have Navy officer ranks (analogous to the US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps).
The Marines, despite actually being part of the Naval Service, do not use Naval insignia; they have their own, closer to Army rank insignia, and some unique rank titles, e.g. Gunnery Sergeant.

 

[jetpack]

I see your Navy ranks now from February.
Are the Air Force insignia from O-13 to O-16 identical? I see in the Navy ones, you have stars.
I like the Air Force rockers for E-2 and E-3. I think it's clearer.
How did the Air Force end up with the titles of Commander and Commodore? Was it just that someone along the way thought they sounded better and adopted them?

How did you decide on titles for O-10 and higher? I see that Air Force titles are similar to Navy ones until they start having Marshals, and I see that the very very high ranks have similarity of names across services. The army and navy have very different titles from O-10 through O-12, so that is evidence that they weren't named by the same committee at the same time.

 

[MovingtargeT]

A few pages back I posted a uniform design for the Cascadian Self Defense Forces, here is the next installment in my series...Texas! Let's be real, if the US splits up or states are allowed to secede, Texas will probably be the first out the door. These uniforms were inspired by a variety of sources, mainly OTL US "doughboy" uniforms from WWI through the 1930's with a few ideas borrowed from the Texas A&M ROTC uniform. Ranks are similar to the US prior to WWI with officers' insignia nearly identical to those of the shortlived First Republic of Texas in the OTL 1830's (insignia diagrams to follow, I'm not quite finished with those yet). The first row is the Army, bottom row is the Republic of Texas Air Force.

Row 1, L-R

First off is a Private in the enlisted male version of the summer dress uniform. Enlisted members wear rank pins on the collar, as stripes for the higher grades do not comfortably fit on short sleeves.

Next is a Second Lieutenant in the female version of the summer dress. Most female troops opt for the skirt during the warmer months, although pants are also authorized. Officers rank is displayed on epaulets and officers' garrison caps also have dark piping on the trim.

Third from left is a Corporal in winter dress. On this uniform, enlisted troops wear stripes on the sleeve. For members of all grades, the tie is ALWAYS tucked per Army tradition.

Next to him is a Major wearing a variant of the winter dress uniform authorized for use on early fall or late spring days with unseasonably warm weather. The sleeves are neatly rolled and the collar is worn open with no tie. This is the only authorized variation for this uniform. Members cannot roll their sleeves but wear a tie, or keep the sleeves down but discard the tie, etc. This soldier's beret indicates that he is a member of the elite Texas Rangers.

In the center is a Sergeant Major in full dress. Note the branch insignia on the collar and hash marks on the sleeves (one for every four years of service). This particular soldier also wears a marksmanship badge on his chest. All ranks wear the Sam Browne belt, jodhpur style pants, and riding boots.

Next is a Staff Sergeant appropriately dressed in the female version of the full dress uniform. It is largely identical to the male version save for the dress cap.

Third from right is a Captain displaying the officer's full dress. Note the gold buttons (enlisted buttons are subdued), trim piping, and gold braid on the cap. Rank is displayed by shoulder tabs and collar pins.

Beside him is a Colonel of cavalry, as indicated by his stetson style hat and spurs.

Finally, a General in full dress. As with other officers, Generals wear rank on the collar as well as golden shoulder tabs and a gold band on the cover.

The bottom row are the uniform variants of the Republic of Texas Air Force. Many of the accoutrements are similar, if not identical, to those of the army. On the left: an Airman and First Lieutenant in summer dress. Next is a Staff Sergeant in the female version of winter dress (note tie tab and long pants) and a Lieutenant Colonel. All Air Force members wear the tie untucked (this is a tradition of the Army and Marines only). In full dress uniform are an Airman, Captain, and Major General. Note that the Air Force does not wear a Sam Browne belt (another Army and Marines tradition), jodhpur pants, or boots.

edit: see the updated Army version here:
Rank Insignia and Uniforms Thread

Coming soon: Republic of Texas Navy and Marines!

 

[Hapsburg]

Are the Air Force insignia from O-13 to O-16 identical?

For the sleeves, yes. But the Air Force has shoulder boards and collar patches also that indicate rank. I'll make another table at some point displaying those.

How did the Air Force end up with the titles of Commander and Commodore? Was it just that someone along the way thought they sounded better and adopted them?

RAF influence in the common Terran military tradition. And a way for the Air Force to differentiate itself from Army Aviation.

How did you decide on titles for O-10 and higher?

From O-12 on up, it's variations of the RAF "Air Marshal" rank, just modified to fit to the Terran "x, Chief x, Grand x, Supreme x" pattern, with Vice Marshal a la the UK's RAF.
O-8 to O-11 are basically your regular "Maj Gen, Lt Gen, Gen" sequence with "Senior General" replacing the Army's "Colonel General" as just a slight difference.

For reference:
The Army's general ranks go:
O-7 Brigadier General
O-8 Major General
O-9 Lieutenant General
O-10 General
O-11 Colonel General
O-12 Captain General
O-13 General Field Marshal
O-14 Chief Marshal
O-15 Grand Marshal
O-16 Supreme Marshal

 

[Marc Pasquin]

I think it'd be better of the CSAF was a sub-unit of the army. So, the CSAAF or CSAAC.

any particular reasons ?

 

[jetpack]

A few pages back I posted a uniform design for the Cascadian Self Defense Forces

By the way, I enjoyed that a lot. I liked the progressive slant, and I like that the Navy wore red to give the feel that they're really a Coast Guard or rescue organization.

mainly OTL US "doughboy" uniforms from WWI through the 1930's

Have you thought about when the POD is and when this takes place? The uniforms don't stand out as being from a past or future era.

with a few ideas borrowed from the Texas A&M ROTC uniform.

Do ROTC uniforms vary depending on what college you're at?

This soldier's beret indicates that he is a member of the elite Texas Rangers.

The beret suggests this is related to the U.S. Rangers in lineage or mission. Does this group take their lineage from the current Texas Rangers law enforcement agency, or from Terry's Texas Rangers (that I learned about on Wikipedia today), or is it a new group with missions like the U.S. rangers. Do they get nifty silver star badges?

Next is a Staff Sergeant appropriately dressed in the female version of the full dress uniform. It is largely identical to the male version save for the dress cap.

I like the hat. Is it just for women's dress uniforms? Why don't men wear something like this?

Third from right is a Captain displaying the officer's full dress. Note the gold buttons (enlisted buttons are subdued), trim piping, and gold braid on the cap. Rank is displayed by shoulder tabs and collar pins.

Beside him is a Colonel of cavalry, as indicated by his stetson style hat and spurs.

This guy's got a lot of facial hair for a military man. I can see getting away with that kind of thing in lefty Cascadia, but I'd expect Texans to have some self-respect. Okay, seriously, what are your thoughts on hair regulations?

 

[MovingtargeT]

By the way, I enjoyed that a lot. I liked the progressive slant, and I like that the Navy wore red to give the feel that they're really a Coast Guard or rescue organization.

Have you thought about when the POD is and when this takes place? The uniforms don't stand out as being from a past or future era.

Do ROTC uniforms vary depending on what college you're at?

The beret suggests this is related to the U.S. Rangers in lineage or mission. Does this group take their lineage from the current Texas Rangers law enforcement agency, or from Terry's Texas Rangers (that I learned about on Wikipedia today), or is it a new group with missions like the U.S. rangers. Do they get nifty silver star badges?

I like the hat. Is it just for women's dress uniforms? Why don't men wear something like this?

This guy's got a lot of facial hair for a military man. I can see getting away with that kind of thing in lefty Cascadia, but I'd expect Texans to have some self-respect. Okay, seriously, what are your thoughts on hair regulations?

Thanks for the feedback! I'll answer your questions one at a time:

1. Thanks for the comments about Cascadia! I'm glad that you picked up on the progressive vibe, that was a big factor in what makes the CSDF unique from the other organizations in my scenario.

2. Of course, this timeline exists in the very near future (less than 20 years). Everything has been OTL up to that point. The basic premise is that the growing social and political divisions in American society resulted in a bloodless division of the Union. There was no second civil war or zombie apocalypse, just basically an agreement to disagree and some states amicably bowed out. The US still exists, but in a slightly reduced form. The Pacific Northwest, California (uniforms and insignia coming later!), and Texas have seceded. Other regions had minor uprisings or squabbles, but for one reason or another ultimately decided to stay.

3. Yes, most colleges use identical uniforms from the US military with different patches and insignia while others create their own. If I recall correctly, I googled something like "Texas military uniform" intending to find information about the first Republic of Texas' military. I noticed that the Aggies' uniforms were very similar to the idea that I was formulating in my head. It added some credibility to the idea that some of those elements were already part of Texas tradition.

4. It's a little of both. The original Texas Rangers performed law enforcement and military roles. The new Texas Rangers are an extension of that tradition with some elements borrowed from the US Rangers as well. And no, no silver badges.

5. Women in many different armed forces around the world have a similar cover. I tried to make something along the lines of a female jockey's cap.

6. While not as hirsute as the Cascadians, Texas does allow bigger mustaches than the US military. Hair regulations, including facial hair and sideburns, are conservative and similar to those of the US.

 

[jetpack]

I know I'm being a bit needy, but I'd like to hear what any of you have to say about the cavalry-based Confederate States Air Force I made.

 

[MovingtargeT]

I know I'm being a bit needy, but I'd like to hear what any of you have to say about the cavalry-based Confederate States Air Force I made.

I like the enlisted insignia, but the lapel tabs of the officers are too cluttered for my taste. They also look more sci-fi than WWI-era CSA and would be very hard to discern at a distance. You could use the same insignia, but as larger embroidery spread further across the lapel. The coat looks like a modern lightweight jacket, I would say it needs more military flair. Gold buttons, pressed pockets, a medal or two, etc. The enlisted stripes should probably be moved up a bit higher on the bicep, so that elbow movement won't be restricted. I would also take the time to make a logo for the CSAF to go on the hat rather than the abbreviation.

It's all meant to be constructive, especially since lately this thread is basically you, me, Marc, and Hapsburg all posting back and forth.

 

[jetpack]

I like the enlisted insignia, but the lapel tabs of the officers are too cluttered for my taste. They also look more sci-fi than WWI-era CSA and would be very hard to discern at a distance. You could use the same insignia, but as larger embroidery spread further across the lapel. The coat looks like a modern lightweight jacket, I would say it needs more military flair. Gold buttons, pressed pockets, a medal or two, etc. The enlisted stripes should probably be moved up a bit higher on the bicep, so that elbow movement won't be restricted. I would also take the time to make a logo for the CSAF to go on the hat rather than the abbreviation.

It's all meant to be constructive, especially since lately this thread is basically you, me, Marc, and Hapsburg all posting back and forth.

Thanks a lot for the response. I agree that the officer tabs don't look good, and can use some improvements. The slant makes it look kind of sci-fi, the colors clash, it's too small to be practical, and the pixel art doesn't help. I think brass pins would be the best looking, but part of me thinks that patches are more fitting in an air force than pins. The patch also gives me an excuse to use a cavalry yellow background. I'm thinking I'd rather put officer insignia on the collar, which gives more length to stretch out on, and is more Confederate. You successfully used high neck collars in your future Texas series without losing the modern feel, but I don't think I can pull that off. Color scheme for a patch could be gray-on-yellow, black-on-yellow, or gold-on-yellow. I think for visibility, I'd also like to add sleeve stripes to officers based on a simplified version of the sleeve embroidery of the Civil War.

I never thought about the jacket. I liked the modernity of the jacket template I picked, but really I can get the same effect even if I add some nice looking pockets, and a well placed belt for an officer. A name badge would help. Some more decoration would be essential for the type of personalities who would join this organization.

I was wondering if anyone would mention the elbow problem. I spotted that after I was tired of messing with it. It would definitely be an improvement to move it up.

Logo for CSAF would be fun. I won't do a flag with wings, since Marc already did that.

 

[MovingtargeT]

If you look at US uniform history (which, if the CS would have lasted they would have likely done the same) the overall style followed trends depending on the era. The mid 1800's had French touches like kepi hats, shoulder rank tabs, and mismatched tunic and trouser colors. The late 1800's had German influence with pointed helmets and trim piping on the coat. By WWI we had come back to British style with stiff collars, doughboy helmets, and Sam Browne belts. When I need uniform inspiration I first think of the era...what were most armies doing at the time? Then the culture, do they have any long standing traditions or unique elements that tend to remain? Are they more conservative or flamboyant in their attitude and dress?

I brought this up because you said you are considering adding more elements and changing the cut of the uniform. That's fine, but it's easy to go overboard if you don't have a template to help stay on track. I think a good place to start for your CSAF idea would be Germany...WWI...Africa troops. Like your CSA airman they had gray uniforms, cavalry boots, and and folded hats. Maybe add a cockade (with CSA colors) somewhere, or a double row of buttons on the front? Anyway, this is your template...not mine. I hope that helped get your imagination going.

 

[CaekDaemon]

I was just wondering, but does anyone here have any plain templates that I can use? It's for my Star Trek story, and I know more or less exactly how I want it to look, but I'm pretty bad at the whole limb-proportion thing and was hoping a template could help me get everything lined up right and not have them look like monsters with thighs as wide as their heads or anything insane like that

 

[Marc Pasquin]

I was just wondering, but does anyone here have any plain templates that I can use? It's for my Star Trek story, and I know more or less exactly how I want it to look, but I'm pretty bad at the whole limb-proportion thing and was hoping a template could help me get everything lined up right and not have them look like monsters with thighs as wide as their heads or anything insane like that

There's this one I made for the insignias wikia. Big Enough ?

 

[CaekDaemon]

There's this one I made for the insignias wikia. Big Enough ?

That looks good! Do you have one with a more at rest pose, though? Or one with them standing at attention? It's just that I think the gap between the arms and the body could mess me up a little

 

[Marc Pasquin]

That looks good! Do you have one with a more at rest pose, though? Or one with them standing at attention? It's just that I think the gap between the arms and the body could mess me up a little

not really. I wanted to use only a single template for the entire wikia and that particular template was drawn so that general position and the position of the limbs would not hide details. Maybe the best things you could do would be to find an image of someone in a position that you liked and simply traced over it either using one of the many free apps online or go old school and do it with tracing paper and a scanner.

 

[MovingtargeT]

Part 2 of the Texas Series, Navy and Marines

Naval uniforms are straightforward with much influence coming from the US tradition that Texas inherited. The main standout in the variants is the enlisted sailor's winter blues. The loose and open ends of the summer uniforms are closed off for seasonal comfort. Like their military role, the Marines blend Army and Navy uniform elements. Tucked ties and Sam Browne belts from the Army and straight-legged trousers and colors from the Navy. A major point of difference from Texas and the US regarding Marine uniforms is that Texas uses red trim on officer's dress blues (similar to the Texas Army and Air Force use of trim) whereas the USMC enlisted have trim piping.

Row 1, Republic of Texas Navy Summer Uniforms, L-R:
Able Seaman in Enlisted Summer Dress
Lt. Commander in Officer's Summer Dress
Petty Officer 1st Class in Enlisted Dress Whites
Master Chief Petty Officer in Senior NCO's Dress Whites
Lieutenant in Officer's Dress Whites
Commodore in Flag Officer's Dress Whites.

Row 2, Republic of Texas Navy Winter Uniforms, L-R:
Junior Petty Officer in Enlisted Winter Dress
Lt. Commander in Officer's Winter Dress
Petty Officer in Enlisted Dress Blues
Chief Petty Officer in Senior Enlisted Dress Blues
Junior Lieutenant in Officer's Dress Blues
Rear Admiral in Flag Officer's Dress Blues

Row 3, Republic of Texas Marines, L-R
Private in Enlisted Summer Dress
Captain in Officer's Summer Dress
Corporal in Enlisted Winter Dress
Lt. Colonel in Officer's Winter Dress
Sergeant in Enlisted Dress Blues
Major in Officer's Dress Blues
Major General in Flag Officer's Dress Blues

 

[jetpack]

Part 2 of the Texas Series, Navy and Marines

I see you're predicting the Navy to adopt chevrons, and officer rank pins that look like the army. What's the Able Seaman's rank insignia? I like the marines' pants stripes. Personally, I don't expect that enlisted dress uniform to last much longer, since fashion has changed a bit in the centuries since it was developed.
As a civilian, I would find it easy to confuse the Marine lieutenant and captain's stripe shoulder insignia with Navy ranks that are higher. That could get embarrassing.

 

[jetpack]

I was just wondering, but does anyone here have any plain templates that I can use? It's for my Star Trek story, and I know more or less exactly how I want it to look, but I'm pretty bad at the whole limb-proportion thing and was hoping a template could help me get everything lined up right and not have them look like monsters with thighs as wide as their heads or anything insane like that

tounushifan.deviantart.com has a lot of uniforms. So does tounushi.deviantart.com, but I don't know if you'll find any there that say you have permission to edit them. I don't think there are any blank templates, but some are simple enough for a little eraser work.

 

[MovingtargeT]

I see you're predicting the Navy to adopt chevrons, and officer rank pins that look like the army. What's the Able Seaman's rank insignia? I like the marines' pants stripes. Personally, I don't expect that enlisted dress uniform to last much longer, since fashion has changed a bit in the centuries since it was developed.
As a civilian, I would find it easy to confuse the Marine lieutenant and captain's stripe shoulder insignia with Navy ranks that are higher. That could get embarrassing.

Yep, the Texas Navy would use a similar system to the US Navy, including the insignia pins AND stripes (US Navy does this also). The Able Seaman (obviously a sea-woman in this case, but Texas isn't very PC in their rank terminology) has two diagonal stripes on her collar. The crackerjack uniform dates back to about the turn of the previous century, so it's not really "centuries" old but does follow a long tradition of similar uniform items- bell bottom pants, loose fitting shirt, etc. Rank confusion is very common even among military members themselves, which is why I made the uniforms look distinct. It happens in the real-world too. And for what it's worth, I don't think civilians are ever expected to memorize military rank except in strict totalitarian states. Thanks for looking!

 

[MovingtargeT]

Maybe I should send the California and Texas reps my uniform proposals...

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-russia-separatists-snap-story.html